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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #237
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61-79-list-digest Wednesday, July 7 1999 Volume 03 : Number 237



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - jerky deceleration
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: door panels
FTE 61-79 - screwball designs
Re: FTE 61-79 - bed liner
FTE 61-79 - Fuel Supply
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351M/351 Cleveland
FTE 61-79 - web page.
Re: FTE 61-79 - bed liner
FTE 61-79 - Electric Ranger
FTE 61-79 - Cummins Weights
FTE 61-79 - Ford Country
Re: FTE 61-79 - power steering rebuild
FTE 61-79 - Emissions Equip. Originally on a '79 F-250 w/ 460?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Emissions Equip. Originally on a '79 F-250 w/ 460?
FTE 61-79 - Re: Pitman arm
FTE 61-79 - F100 Tranny Swap - Request for info
Re: FTE 61-79 - NP435/T-18 more info
Re: FTE 61-79 - New Carb
FTE 61-79 - RE: Emissions testing
FTE 61-79 - Extaordinary Ford Trucks !
FTE 61-79 - RE: Emissions

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:41:40 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Bas van der Veer
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - jerky deceleration

> Hey gang: just wanted to let everyone know I'm back in the States, alive and
lucky you..

> lurking. No biggie, but any thoughts about what might cause unsmooth
> deceleration? It's not real dramatic, just that it didin't use to do it.
> I've got a rebuilt carb ( put in 3 mos. ago), seems like it's been doing it
> since about that time. Or could it be a driveline thing? It's a 70 F100,
> 300-I6 with a manual 3-speed and a Carter 1-barrel. TIA.

some motors tend to run real lean when the gas is closed all the way and
they are pulled by the transmission. That;s why they add these throttle
solenoids. That is what a friend of mine said anyway, he removed his
solenoid to put on a throttle position sensor for is new electronic
transmission, and now his engine burps and wobbles if he lets go of the
gas. My engine (with the solenoid) actually seems to be the other way
around, if I have the rear window open I can smell it's running rich when
I let go of the gas. As soon as I touch the gas the smell goes away.

Try turning the idle up a bit and turn the idle adjusters out one turn.
If that makes it go away you've found the problem.

Bas.

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:51:23 -0400
From: "charles tyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: door panels

I am interested in them both. Do they have any trimmings(ie chrome/wood
grain?). How are the arm rests?? Do you have the matching sun visors?

How much?

thanks,
charlest hal-pc.org

- - They are from a '77 F250 that I am parting out the
>cab. Severe rust.
>
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al.
>
>
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>

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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:01:55 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - screwball designs

>>>He (or maybe she?) was still working for Ford truck on the 74-79s. They
>designed the heater core box that has to have everything pulled from inside
>the cab. :-(
I changed the heater core on my '78 with no problem. Well it was tight
because because somebody put a (nice) carpet in it. But after loosening up
the dash it came right out. Do you have A/C? That's what makes things
complicated.

Yes, Bas, I have AC. And yes the AC made it an extra pain. That and it had
never been out in 20 years. It was rusty, full of pine needles, a tight fit,
I have big hands, etc.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:09:55 -0800
From: "Erik Marquez"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - bed liner

On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Erik Marquez wrote:
>>Hey Matt, there is a guy on the FTE list asking about spay/brush in do it
>>your self liners. I went looking for your write up, but can't seem to find
>>it. Is it still available?
Yup:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off -road. com /4x4web/ford/bigbroncos/sowsear/lava/
=Matt
Erik Marquez
bronco78 mosquitonet.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mosquitonet.com/~bronco78
Home of the BB decal
Bronco 78 in the BB chat room

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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:21:42 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fuel Supply

>>2) The oil pressure switch is just a safety device which cuts off the
electric fuel pump in case the engine stops, as in a crash. It must be
wired so the pump gets power from the start circuit during cranking, and
normal run power through the oil pressure switch.

Hey Corey,

I'm going to add my half a nickel in here, too. On a factory electric fuel
pump (EFI), the pump starts running as soon as the key hits the on position.
This acts the same as priming a carb by pumping it. This allows for quicker
starting. The pump will shut down in about 3 seconds if the key is released
from start back to on. This prevents flooding and excess pressure in the
fuel lines (and explosions in the event of a crash). Actually on EFI the
fuel runs in a circle anyway, whereas a typical carb setup doesn't have a
return line. This is where the regulator takes the pressure between it and
the pump instead of your needle and seat. My Towncar also has a "momentum"
switch in the trunk. If the car is struck from the rear, the fuel pump shuts
down, If you don't know how to reset it, you call a tow truck.

I don't have a clue as to how you would duplicate this setup after market.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:44:10 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351M/351 Cleveland

Thanks for your message at 08:06 AM 7/6/99 -0700, Dennis Pearson. Your
message was:
>
>I've been waiting for the old "count the valve cover bolts" explanation,
>but I gues I gotta be the one...
>The Cleveland has eight (8) bolts holding each valve cover on...
>
>That's the quickest way I know to tell the difference (besides performance).
>Oops!
Now this is where I flame myself for such a bonehead suggestion...However ,
in my defense, I did not say anything about the 351M..Maybe it was just an
informational post...No? OK....Sorry!


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:31:34 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - web page.

Forwarded for: Rob Long

I've had a change in web site addr*ss.....

Here is the link to my new address:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/Ford_Trucks

Rob

- --
Rob - I always meant to become a procrastinator -
'78 F 250 - 400 - 4 spd.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/Ford_Trucks



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:01:21 -0700
From: Mike Pacheco
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - bed liner

I paid to have it done, went to Line-X... excellent job, little costly
about 325.00... the bed was dry in 1 hour and I safely loaded it the
next morning. They really prepped it, also a little trick I saw if you
do it yourself....
put fishing line down where you want to break it off (seam) then when it
sets up all you do is rip up the line, nice clean tear.

Mike in Burien

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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:59:42 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Electric Ranger

First,let me say I'm a 4spd.carbureted,manual hub,no smog kind of guy.

We got a demo 99 electric Ranger at work today and I got to it take it
for a little spin.
Very well thought out package and the performance from the 90 horse
engine was impressive to say the least.Even got a little squeal when I
punched it from a dead stop.
It only has a range of about 60 miles and I'm sure a complete battery
replacement would cost a fortune,but it definatly has potential for
its intended fleet market.
After driving it, my 76 seems like a dinosaur.Wouldn't trade it for 3
elec.Rangers tho...
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:52:37 -0500
From: "Brett L. Habben"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cummins Weights

Subject: FTE 61-79 - I must be nuts,,, I bought that old F-100... sent
the money today.
Bill,
Don't give up on the Cummins B-series. The 4BTA (four cylinder) weighs
around 700 pounds, which is in the ballpark of an FE. If you think that
they're not powerful enough, remember that Ford installed Cummins 4BTA's
in E350 cube vans and step vans. With a charge-air-cooler and the right
injection pump they'll pull the hide off a bull elephant. The 4BTA-105
horse industrial version is the most common and a good starting point.
Brett
'75 F100 SuperCab

>I also wrote to Cummins and asked about putting a B engine in the F-100,
>but a little later I found out that the B engine weights a lot.
>900 lbs, at least the brand new QSB5.9 engine,, turbo diesel... guess
that
>will be far to much for the F-100...
>But, I'll see what they come up with. And let you hear.
>Bill Brox



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:02:24 -0700
From: Kathy & Christine
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ford Country

After taking a drive into town today, I've changed my mind about selling
my F-100. Within a space of about 8 blocks, I saw 3 late 60's - early
'70's Ford trucks with For Sale signs on them... One was a F-250 4x4,
midnight blue.... gorgeous... one was primer black lifted 4x4 w/ roll
bar... one was a cherry red flareside, it just sparkled... I thought
about how mine could look if I can just be patient and not freak out
about money. Then get this... just 2 miles down the road from me sits a
'69, blue and white, hardly no rust, no dents, just a little mossy from
sitting out uncared for.. and its sign said "make offer." I bet it
doesn't run, either, and some lucky person's gonna grab it up for next
to nothing, and turn it into a beauty.... all of those, and I've already
got what I want sitting not 30' away from this desk and paid for, to
boot. Am I nuts, wanting to sell it??? Yes, I concluded, I was nuts,
but *whew* I got over it within a couple days! Thanks, and keep all the
good info coming :)

Kathy

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:27:05 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - power steering rebuild

In a message dated 7/6/99 7:57:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, yl dds.nl writes:


important and just the added safety is worth the extra money. I got a A1
cardone, they're said to be really good. It's got lifetime warranty and I
got it for $260. The list price is some $550 so this should be a good deal.
>>
Sounds like you made some good choices and got a good deal.
Burt Hill Kennewick Wa F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:50:03 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Emissions Equip. Originally on a '79 F-250 w/ 460?

>
> I asked this before, and it kind of degraded into an
> argument about emissions testing, but the fact still remains
> that I've got a '79 F-250 4x4 with a much older (say,
> '68-'70) transplanted 429-4v and no emissions equipment on
> it at all that's going to be be due for registration on
> August 5th, and has to get E-checked here in Ohio, so I'm
> still looking for help and info, esp. if you've gone through
> this, and extra especially if you've gone through it in
> Ohio.
> So, some questions:
>
> 1) Where can I find out what emissions equipment this
> vehicle would've had with the closest engine to a 429 (a
> 460?) in '79?

A 1979 factory Ford truck shop manual should be able to tell you what
you need to know. I don't know if the 429/460 was original to your
truck, there may be a problem there. It likely was, but if the engine
family isn't available in that year/model, I don't know if you can make
it legal.
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:59:15 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Emissions Equip. Originally on a '79 F-250 w/ 460?

I heard somewhere that the vehicle has to conform to the regulations set by
the year of the engine, not the vehicle itself. I know a friend put a 85
5.0 in his 77 bronco and he had to have it meet 85 standards, but as you know
im misled or just plain wrong alot so don't use this as a concrete statement

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
members.aol.com/ianboss69/page/home.htm
True Blue Ford Blue
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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:09:24 -0700
From: "Scott Jensen"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Pitman arm

I had the problem of the too-small rental pitman arm puller also. I just
went and bought a cheapo for 5 bucks and beat the thing on with a BIG
hammer. Truck drives much better now. Remember, safety first!

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:12:11 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - F100 Tranny Swap - Request for info

> I also have a 1993 F150 2wd with the 5 speed and the 6cyl engine, fuel
> injected, hydraulic clutch, etc..
>
> Question: has anyone used this more modern tranny with an older engine? The
> straight 6 is a great engine but the advantages of the 5 speed are obvious.
>
> I have questions about the clutch (mechanical vs hydraulic), flywheel, size
> of clutch and pressure plate, bell housing, linkage, change of shifter from
> column to floor, drive shaft, cost of adapters or other necessary parts -
> anything else ?
>
> The best solution would be a direct replacement on the same bell housing (if
> it fits) and modifications to the floorboard and the drive shaft as needed.
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated, including alternate tranny
> advice, if the 5speed is not the best choice. I prefer to keep the tranny
> manual.

The tranny is pretty good, but it's not the most rugged. It's the same
Mazda M5-OD trans as what came in the Ranger from way back. It will do
for most things, but if you work it very hard it could break.

The thing I hate the most is that stupid release bearing/ hydraulic
clutch set up. All that so you don't have a fork! When that bearing
gets sick, it will wreck a good clutch. Hate em! My son's '83 Ranger
has a fork, and the Mitsubishi trans, but I think they did away with the
fork around '86 or so. I don't know if the fork/ throwout bearing from
an earlier truck with the M5-OD would adapt or not, but it would be
better if it would.
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:16:22 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - NP435/T-18 more info

> Rev. is the same over and back for NP435 and T-18, at least for
> 78/79 vintage. Neither has synchronized first. T-19 does, but have heard
> that some T-19's don't have granny first.

The 80's F250's had T-19's with a 4.45 low, and low is syncronized.
It's too bad they didn't add a 5th gear to that box.
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:41:00 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New Carb

how bout this,,,that little blue flame means theres unburnt fuel coming out
the exhaust right? weld a bud onto the exhaust tip, add some sparkplugs, an
extra coil, and walla!!! burn the grill off the car/truck behind you,,,hehe

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
members.aol.com/ianboss69/page/home.htm
True Blue Ford Blue
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:46:40 CDT
From: Shane Bevel
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Emissions testing

As someone who lives in an emmission county in Texas (Dallas county), I
would say the following:

1. Check to make sure that you HAVE to have the original motor. Some states
just want the equipment that came with the original car. I am a big fan of
small block conversion S-10 pickups and have helped build a few. We don't
have a huge problem with it here. If the truck came with an air pump they
check for an air pump they don't car what kind of motor it is on.

2. If you have to buy something bit the bullet and buy a high flo 3" cat. I
think it will cost you about $250. That should put you close to your repair
max and do the most to clean up the trucks emissions.

3. Find a really stupid mechanic. I have never had anyone double check the
vin or motor numbers to make sure that they match. And I have taken some
pretty wild looking stuff into the tester. The difference between a big
block and an M motor is not that huge (visually, to most people, current
company excluded) They are both large American-made V8's. I can't imagine it
prompting someone to check it out.

4. Last case scenerio: A case of Bud and $20 will work wonders in most
places. Talk around. I am sure that you can find some buddy of a buddy that
works in a corner lube and tune and does inspections. I have only had to do
this with one car. And that's another story all together. It didn't have DOT
tires (among other things).

Good Luck,
Shane Bevel
1979 F-100, 351M (for sale)
1989 Honda CB-1 (400cc road race bike)
www.people.unt.edu/~shaneb


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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:45:20 EDT
From: SevnD2 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Extaordinary Ford Trucks !

I just thought it would be interesting for everyone to describe anything
extaordinary they have done or saw done with a ford truck ! I for one saw a
one ton dually pull a 14 x 70 mobile home for several miles without any
problems other than stopping easily ! Also once upon a time a ford truck was
driven for quite a distance with the oil pump shaft broken in half !! A new
shaft was installed , truck is still running fine !
One incident embarassed a ch*v* owner . My brother has 71 3/4 ton with a 360
,used it to pull a 65 he bought over the smokey mtns . Someone in a ch*v*
was pulling a little camper and kept trying to pass on hills but never could
keep up .
Anyway I just wanted to share the experiences I have enjoyed with those good
old ford trucks . Lets hear about yours !
Rollie ,
King , N.C.
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:18:13 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Emissions

In their opinion, removing any emission part on the truck is "Tampering",
so the argument that your truck is "Modified" simply won't fly. Any money
spent replacing parts removed does not count towards the $300, because you
weren't supposed to take them off in the first place. It is definitely not
Ohio's fault for not checking you truck to make sure it is OK, you were
supposed to pay a mechanic to check these things out before you bought it.
Sounds like a caller on the Bruce Williams show who wanted to blame the
phone company because they didn't check her son's birth certificate before
issuing him a calling card (he was impersonating his father, calling from
his father's phone, so to the phone company everything seemed legit, then
the 16 year old kid intercepted the card before his father got it, then
racked up $1500 in LD charges)

The true question is do you want your truck to pass, or do you want it
right. If you want it right, then you will have to swap in a 79 or newer
engine with all emissions equipment attached.

Now here's how I would do it if it were my truck: I would get some 79 or
newer 460 valve covers complete with stickers and slap them on. Next you
will need an EGR system. This is what could actually be the most expensive
part of the deal, if your manifold is non-EGR, you will have to swap in one
that is. Good time for a Edelbrock Performer EGR. You will need to
connect both sides of your exhaust together, and run it through one cat
(not that bad at $100 for a cat)

Also you will need to have a PVC system (which you should already have),
and a Evaporative Emissions System (charcoal canister), and a exhaust
heater running to a closed air cleaner (with thermostatic control so it
sucks hot air from the exhaust manifold when cold.)

Also, have all your vacuum lines connected and not plugged off (just hook
them to something)

Next a exhaust heat control valve (sends hot exhaust through intake to heat
up gas mixture faster).

The only one I'm not to sure of is the Thermactor system (smog, air pump),
don't know if Ford used it for 460's in 1979.

Hope this helps.

Oh and how do the TA/Camaro guys do it. Well they either have cats (not to
hard to imagine) or they weld in cats just for the emissions test (along....


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