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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #228
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61-79-list-digest Thursday, July 1 1999 Volume 03 : Number 228



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Re:'67-'72 Disc Brakes
FTE 61-79 - Oil Galleys
FTE 61-79 - Stiff steering
Re: FTE 61-79 - interior
FTE 61-79 - Diesels
FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?
FTE 61-79 - One More Thing
FTE 61-79 - RE:Valves
FTE 61-79 - 460 hp
FTE 61-79 - Older vehicles
FTE 61-79 - Deacon
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 hp
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 hp
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE:Valves
FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?
FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?
FTE 61-79 - a few questions before putting my new 390 in
FTE 61-79 - Updated my website too
Re: FTE 61-79 - a few questions before putting my new 390 in
FTE 61-79 - Seats
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Smokin Joe Camel
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
FTE 61-79 - 400 intake gasket
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 intake gasket
FTE 61-79 - Fast Idle on 300-6 w/4bbl
FTE 61-79 - Stiff Steering
FTE 61-79 - Stiff Steering
Re: FTE 61-79 - Stiff Steering
Re: FTE 61-79 - Diesel in '66
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fast Idle on 300-6 w/4bbl
FTE 61-79 - Re - Bronco Flooding
FTE 61-79 - 429 crank specs
FTE 61-79 - Re: 78 Ranger Lariat door panels
FTE 61-79 - Re: Stiff Steering
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 78 Ranger Lariat door panels
Re: FTE 61-79 - 429 crank specs
FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Fleetside boxes
Re: FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Fleetside boxes
FTE 61-79 - Truck
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Found Lots of Spare Parts
Re: FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Fleetside boxes

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 05:15:02 PDT
From: eldon eversull
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:'67-'72 Disc Brakes

>>I have seen and am well versed on the tech article on disc brake
>>conversion on the web site but, I was wondering if anyone out there has
>>had any experience with other aftermarket disc brake systems for this
>>group of model years. I recently saw in Custom Classic Trucks magazine an
>>ad from Master Power brakes.
Any experience good or bad? Any comments or suggestions are greatly
appreciated.

Steve: (sjacobi fd9ns01.okladot.state.ok.us)
I know you were asking about a 1967 conversion, but I had good results
for a 1964 f100. I got the master cylinder from Master Power Brakes. It
bolted right up to the original holes in the fire wall. The connecting rod
and connecter were way too long and the rod itself did not have the nylon
spacer in it. I would add that the instructions really only consisted of
the statement that you should consult a qualified mechanic for installation.
My disc brakes and backing plate came from ECI in CT, also an advertiser
in Custom Classic Trucks. It was expensive, but both work well and I have
confidence in Fred stopping.

Eldon, 1964 F100


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:28:15 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Oil Galleys

> This was an aftermarket function and not factory. All the early FE('60 thru
> '67) hi performance solid lifter blocks did not have the drilled access passages
> for hydraulics. Many people did exactly what you described to convert to
> solids from factory hydraulics, though. I did a couple of them myself.

That's something to look at for sure. The 390 HP and 427 blocks (except
for the last run of '68's) didn't have the passages drilled. The 2nd
and 4th cam bearings were grooved to provide oil to the rocker shafts
too, if memory serves, right Azie? Another way to tell if you have an
HP block is to look at the main webbing. There will be an extra rib in
the center three main webs.

A few words about those early blocks. I recently had the heads redone
for a guy I know with a '61 Galaxie Starliner (convertable, love that
car!) with a 352 2bbl. The engine had never been bored, but had the
rings and bearings replaced, standard size a couple of years ago. Why
the heads weren't done I don't know. I pulled the heads, and cleaned
everything up, ready to go back together, and got to looking at the
bores. There was no ridge, or reamer markings on it. I could still see
the hone marks, but no reamer marks. I did a quick and dirty taper
measurement. The taper was well within specs. This engine has over
150,000 miles on it, it's a driver/ weekend show car. I put it back
together, and let me tell you, that engine is so smooth and quiet, no
piston noise at all, (and considering that the rods weren't resized, or
the pins replaced during it's "overhaul" that's another cause for
amazement) you just can't believe it. But evidently, that block has had
a copacetic relationship with those rings for all those years and didn't
get cut up at all. Amazing. Tore a '91 Ch*v 350 down a little while
back and saw ridges that I'd never seen before, and taper, man. It took
all of a .030 cut to straighten it out. When they brag on the great
materials they use in the engines today, I just have to wonder if they
really believe it.
believe it.
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:12:37 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Stiff steering

>
> Friends;
> I got the kingpins done on the '66 yesterday, (I'm too embarrassed to
> tell how much it cost) and I'm a little disappointed. The truck steers
> better, for sure, but it still tramlines a little and the steering is still
> stiff.

It may be that it's not the box at all.

First, check to see that the steering components are installed properly
centered, not twisted to the end of their travel (all joints should be
adjusted to a level plane, in the center of their side to side travel)
Tire shops are real bad about not setting this stuff up right when doing
an alignment.

Is the steering tight in any one area? If it is then then it may be the
box, provided that the cab isn't sagging enough to cause a bind in the
steering shaft. The thing to look for in the box is a tightness as it
comes to center. That would indicate that the adjustment needs to be
backed off a little.

If it isn't tight at the steering wheel, and everthing is centered, then
check your toe in, and camber. If your toe in is off, it will follow
the road. Alot of alignments on king-pin twin I-beams use toe-in to
compensate for the camber being out of whack. You have to bend the
i-beams to bring the wheels to the right camber, and alot of shops don't
want to do it. It takes a huge amount of force to do it. So they fudge
on the toe a little, get it so so , and chalk it up to the "poor" degign
of the twin-i-beam. My '67 I used to drive went through it. I replaced
everything. It came down to the i-beams. That was all that was left.
I found an old-timer with the old Bear machine, and had him do the
deed. From then on it was perfect. I drove it 5 more years, and on
bias ply tires to boot, happy as could be. It was especially sweet on
two lane blacktop roads, before you couldn't relax for a minute, it
would be wanting to go off the edge. After, it was great.

It was like a good horse, no matter what kind of shape I'd get in, I'd
come to in the drive way...:-)
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:19:59 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - interior

>Bout the only thing I think you could realistically do is swap the seat. Im
>considering a swap myself, as I would really like a set of 5 point harnesses
>in my truck for the kind of wheelin I do, but I dont think theyed work so
>well with a bench.

Why's that ? You may have to drill another hole in the rear to mount the
seats ... I guess the 5th point wouldn't work so well with the bench, but
then who wants that 5th point (shudder) ... the whole point of the belts is
to hold you in place, it shouldn't matter too much what kind of seat you
are on ... we had an aluminum seat in an SAE mini-formula car for a while,
the problem with it was that the lower side belts went through holes in the
seat that were too high, so I ended up sliding back and forth all the
time...with a 4pt and a bench, you should be able to tighten those up nicely...

> I used to have some
>85 Stang buckets in my old wagon, and I tell ya, that was the most
>comfortable cruiser around. Hmm, I wonder if I could fabricate mounts so I
>could install those seats?

One thing you should consider when putting these types of seats into
trucks, is that the back of a truck is a bit straighter than the cars are
... in other words you will try and recline the seat just enough to hit the
rear window, and it will still be too straight up in the back ... of course
this may not apply if you're under about 5'10" and can live with the seat
forward a bit ... I can't seem to find enough space even with the bench
though...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:32:55 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Diesels

Stockman writes: >>There were 4 cyl. diesels which Ford used (Dagenhams and
Dorsets)
but not in an F-100/350 truck. My suspicions were confirmed when I checked
in my MPC for 64-72. No F-series with any factory option for a diesel.


In the very early '60's and maybe even in the very late '50's, Ford tractor came
out with the 6000 series 6 cyl diesel tractor. It came only with an Automatic
transmillion. It was the same block as the larger 6 cyl Ford truck block and
several farmers bought the engines and installed them in grain trucks. Wasn't
too powerful for passing or speed on the road, but you couldn't lug it down.
Would really pull a load in soft dirt.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:37:56 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?

>>however, the tale has the feel of an urban legend. Anybody know if this is
for real or not?

Sean,

I have read several articles about Cuba. For a long time, they couldn't get
any vehicles other than Russian, so they tooled up to make replacement parts
for what they had. It is my understanding that mid 50s cars are very common
in Cuba and replacement parts are readily available. I do not know how close
this is to the truth.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:39:18 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - One More Thing

One more thing about twin-I-beams. They don't work well with deep dish
wheels. That will cause bad steering too.
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:41:04 -0500
From: Don Yerhot
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE:Valves

Give PAW a call. They probably have a couple different choices for your
351C 2V. Their # is (818) 998-6000.
Good luck on the rebuild!

DonY
65F250-351W-435NP
74F100-351W-3on the tree




I just received my stainless steel valves from Summit... they sent the
wrong ones and don't even offer valves for a 351C-2V... they sent valves

for 4V... does anyone know where I might purchase some. Here are the
sizes
Intake 2.044
Exhaust 1.656>



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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:31:33 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 hp

ASFAIK there are several ways to measure HP.

net hp
brake hp
gross hp
taxable hp
more?

I don't remember for sure which is which except brake hp is usually the
highest and taxable hp the lowest. It seems to me that SAE net is the
standard now days.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:48:18 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Older vehicles

Sean O'Malley writes: >>
A while back, someone mentioned travelling to Brazil and seeing
many _brand new_ Ford Granadas, D*dge D*rts, and other "dark
days of Detroit" models on the streets.

Can't speak for all the Manufactuers, but Chrysler did still make the Dodge
Dart/Plymouth Duster in Mexico when I was down there for a working visit back in
'95. They were made for "Domestic" and South America sales only and could not
be imported to the USA. South America is probably under the same conditions as
Mexico. Lots of the tooling/stampings aren't old USA stuff, but specifically
designed for their locations when new.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:57:04 GMT
From: bob bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Deacon

On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:31:04 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
If you are still here - email me

Thanks.
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:05:10 -0500
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 hp

Brother John, I think you forgot "seat of the pants" as another
*legitimate* way to measure HP.
WOOF
;^)

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu


>ASFAIK there are several ways to measure HP.
>
>net hp
>brake hp
>gross hp
>taxable hp
>more?
>
>I don't remember for sure which is which except brake hp is usually the
>highest and taxable hp the lowest. It seems to me that SAE net is the
>standard now days.
>
>-- John
>jlagrone ford-trucks.com
>1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
>http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
>Dearborn iron rules!!!!

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:21:05 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 hp

>Brother John, I think you forgot "seat of the pants" as another
>*legitimate* way to measure HP.
>WOOF


Commonly referred to on message boards as the SOTPM or seat of the pants
meter :)

or butt meter if you are in a hurry


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:59:51 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE:Valves

Well they don't list any stainless in their catalog for the 2V heads but I
know Sealed Power makes 'em I just don't have a source for them.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Don Yerhot
To: 61-79-list-digest
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:44 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE:Valves


>Give PAW a call. They probably have a couple different choices for your
>351C 2V. Their # is (818) 998-6000.




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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:15:28 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?

>
>
>A while back, someone mentioned travelling to Brazil and seeing
>many _brand new_ Ford Granadas, D*dge D*rts, and other "dark
>days of Detroit" models on the streets. They claimed that this
>was a result of the big makers sending their obsolete tooling
>and dies to various third-world factories and licensing them to produce
>those models for local sale. For the intrepid traveller, this
>could be a good source for brand new FE parts; however, the
>tale has the feel of an urban legend. Anybody know if this is
>for real or not?
>
It could be true, not necessarily for that reason, but I know that in South
America the Ford trucks retained the late fifties (boxy) bodystyle and
Y-block engines thru the early 1970s.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:15:25 EDT
From: REvans8341 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

This is going to sound like a joke, but It's true, cause I can't make
this stuff up.
I'm hearing a very noticeable noise in my 72 F-100 when I push the brake
pedal when the motor is running (Power Brakes). It started suddenley and
sounds like 2 dogs howling at each other in the middle of the night. Not a
bark, but a "howl." I've looked at the master cylinder, the wheel cylinders
and the shoes and drums and can't see any leaks or anything else unusual.
Everything is working normally otherwise, except for this howl. Does anyone
have any idea what it might be...any help and/or advice is appreciated...Bob
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:22:50 -0400
From: William A Whited
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?

John LaGrone wrote:
Sean,

> I have read several articles about Cuba. For a long time, they couldn't get
> any vehicles other than Russian, so they tooled up to make replacement parts
> for what they had. It is my understanding that mid 50s cars are very common
> in Cuba and replacement parts are readily available. I do not know how close
> this is to the truth.
>
> -- John

John, I'm down here at Guantanamo Bay Cuba, and yes the Cuban's do have alot
of 50's cars and trucks. As far as replacement parts maybe near Havana they have
lots but outside the Naval Base here they are "HURTING" to say the least.
- --
William A Whited
74 F100 RANGER SUPERCAB 390
77 F100 CUSTOM FLAIRSIDE 302
79 F100 EXPLORER SUPERCAB 302 (PARTS TRUCK)
"IT DON'T GTMO BETTER THEN THIS, SEMPER FI"


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:33:45 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

> I'm hearing a very noticeable noise in my 72 F-100 when I push the brake
>pedal when the motor is running (Power Brakes). It started suddenley and
>sounds like 2 dogs howling at each other in the middle of the night. Not a
>bark, but a "howl." I've looked at the master cylinder, the wheel cylinders
>and the shoes and drums and can't see any leaks or anything else unusual.
>Everything is working normally otherwise, except for this howl. Does anyone
>have any idea what it might be...any help and/or advice is appreciated...Bob


Hahahahaha .... I bet that's a bit unsettling isn't it ? :) Does it make
this noise when the truck is stopped already and you put the brake on? My
first thought when you said it made a howl was a vacuum leak ... most
likely a tear in the diaphram in the brake booster .. a small slit and it
will vibrate with the engine pulses ...resulting in a howl .... I've never
actually seen this happen before, but it seems to make sense ... I'd check
all the vacuum connections to the power unit ...and if you've got strong
legs, maybe disconnect and plug the vacuum and see if it still makes the
noise ... by plugging different parts of it you can tell if its in the hose
or the booster itself ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:33:45 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

> I'm hearing a very noticeable noise in my 72 F-100 when I push the brake
>pedal when the motor is running (Power Brakes). It started suddenley and
>sounds like 2 dogs howling at each other in the middle of the night. Not a
>bark, but a "howl." I've looked at the master cylinder, the wheel cylinders
>and the shoes and drums and can't see any leaks or anything else unusual.
>Everything is working normally otherwise, except for this howl. Does anyone
>have any idea what it might be...any help and/or advice is appreciated...Bob


Hahahahaha .... I bet that's a bit unsettling isn't it ? :) Does it make
this noise when the truck is stopped already and you put the brake on? My
first thought when you said it made a howl was a vacuum leak ... most
likely a tear in the diaphram in the brake booster .. a small slit and it
will vibrate with the engine pulses ...resulting in a howl .... I've never
actually seen this happen before, but it seems to make sense ... I'd check
all the vacuum connections to the power unit ...and if you've got strong
legs, maybe disconnect and plug the vacuum and see if it still makes the
noise ... by plugging different parts of it you can tell if its in the hose
or the booster itself ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:56:22 -0500
From: "Jason & Kathy Kendrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

. Does anyone
> have any idea what it might be...any help and/or advice is appreciated...Bob

Look at the hoses running to the brake booster-you might have a vacuum
leak.
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:05:34 EDT
From: SevnD2 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

Sounds like a vacuum leak (power booster diaphram )or the check valve on the
power booster !
R.H.Hunt
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:14:57 CDT
From: Jett Rink
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Is this a myth?

I've talked to a few Cuban emigres and from what they've told me, this is
probably true. I can also recall some articles in National Geographic about
Cuba showing older American cars still looking like new.


>I have read several articles about Cuba. For a long time, they couldn't get
>any vehicles other than Russian, so they tooled up to make replacement
>parts
>for what they had. It is my understanding that mid 50s cars are very common
>in Cuba and replacement parts are readily available. I do not know how
>close
>this is to the truth.



Remember, if it's free it can't be all bad.


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:59:40 -0500
From: JOHN E DOLSON
Subject: FTE 61-79 - a few questions before putting my new 390 in

I have finally finished my 390 and am almost ready to install it in my
1976 F150. I have just a few questions to resolve before doing this:

1. I bought new motor mounts, they are stamped left-hand, and right-hand.
I know this sounds stupid, but which sides of the engine are these in
relation to drivers-side and passengers-side?

2. My transmission, a C-6, is 23 years old is there any thing I cand do
to update it and prolong it's life, short of rebuilding it? it works
allright now. do those B&M shift improvers really do anything?

3. While Ive got the front end apart, I'd like to do something to raise
the ride hieght of the frontend, anybody have any Ideas? it's 2wd.

4. I also would like to put dual exhaust on the truck, I don't want
anything expensive , but am looking for some thing with a good sound,
what kind of exhaust/mufflers should I look into?

Any help would be appreciated

John Dolson
Jefferson City, MO
1976 F150 Ranger XLT

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Updated my website too

With everyone updating their websites, I got motivated to add
some things I have been thinking about for a while.

Mainly I started a "'74 Ford Truck Reference" page with info.
on options, trim levels, engine availability, and such. It
is not complete, actually it never will be.

Also have a few pics from the All Ford Show and Swap meet in
Hillsboro, OR in early June.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:06:08 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - a few questions before putting my new 390 in

>1. I bought new motor mounts, they are stamped left-hand, and right-hand.
>I know this sounds stupid, but which sides of the engine are these in
>relation to drivers-side and passengers-side?
>
Always from pilot's seat ... so left is driver's side ...

>3. While Ive got the front end apart, I'd like to do something to raise
>the ride hieght of the frontend, anybody have any Ideas? it's 2wd.
>
How much raise are we talking? If its too low it could just be weak/old
front springs

(see http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Tech/Springs/springs.html)


>4. I also would like to put dual exhaust on the truck, I don't want
>anything expensive , but am looking for some thing with a good sound,
>what kind of exhaust/mufflers should I look into?
>
I think places like JC whitney and such have some dual kits ... I know lmc
truck does (don't have the link handy this minute, but it'll find its way
onto my links page (which is being revamped again) I've got Super Turbo's
on my truck with a new 390 in it (stock exhaust manifolds too) ... I know I
made a guy with the same mufflers on his 5.0 blush ... he thought he was
cool 'cause it was louder in his car ... unfortunately for him, mine stayed
with a full rich sound while his got hollow and echoey(?) when we hit the
gas :)




Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:14:30 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Seats

>anyone know if a 74 is wide enough to
>accommodate 3 of these?(seats)

I saw a absolutely awesome 73-75 Pre-Runner with
three Beard racing seats in it.They all had 5 point
harnesses.It looked like a tight fit,so I don't know
if three stock buckets would fit.
BTW a 84 bench seat bolted right to my 76 tracks.
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:45:09 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

Thanks for your message at 10:33 AM 6/30/99 -0500, William S Hart. Your
message was:
>> I'm hearing a very noticeable noise in my 72 F-100 when I push the
brake
>>pedal when the motor is running (Power Brakes). It started suddenley and
>>sounds like 2 dogs howling at each other in the middle of the night. Not a
>>bark, but a "howl." I've looked at the master cylinder, the wheel
cylinders
>>and the shoes and drums and can't see any leaks or anything else unusual.
>>Everything is working normally otherwise, except for this howl. Does
anyone
>>have any idea what it might be...any help and/or advice is appreciated...Bob

If all else fails, you might try the solution found at

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Courses/Demons/Resources/liturgy.html

Or is that just for getting Ch**vies out of the neighborhood...?



Dennis L. Pearson

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ctc.edu/~dpearson.index.html
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:07:56 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes

>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:13:52 +0200
>From: "Robert Wiblin"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
>
>Can Anybody please advise where on the net
>can I find a detailed description of what everything
> on the Engine ID sticker means. I would like to
>identify a second hand engine (400) which I
>bought to use as a transplant into my 79 F100.
>She currently runs with a 302 Cleveland which
>is sipping just a little too much oil to my liking.

Yo Robert:

I can't point you to any particular place on the net where you can get the
details on the engine ID sticker, but there is a book that covers this and all
the details of the 351M/400 engine. The title is "How to Rebuild Ford V8
Engines 351C-351M-400-429-460" by Tom Monroe, published by HP Books, ISBN
0-89586-036-8.

IMHO, this is the definitive book on building the 335 and 385 series engines.
This book also gives a pretty thorough explanation of the engine ID stickers.

Good luck w/ your truck.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:09:36 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes

>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:31:45 -0400
>From: James Oxley
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
>
>William S Hart wrote:
>> I would think the first step would be to be sure its really a 400, and not
>> a 351M with a different valve cover on it ...
>
>valve cover and sticker are the same. All stickers
>said 351m/400 on them.

Yo Ox:

Even though after 351M production began in 1975, all M-blocks were identified as
being in the same engine "family" (351M/400 or the later metric 5.8M/6.6 ) the
sticker always called out the actual engine size too (i.e., 351 CID or 400 CID
or metric equivalents). I think Wish's point was that the valve cover with an
engine ID sticker could be easily swapped so that the sticker wouldn't
necessarily tell you what you really had. The 351M that I just picked up
recently had a 400 valve cover sticker on it.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:10:05 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Smokin Joe Camel

>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:05:55 -0700
>From: "Bill Beyer"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Smokin Joe Camel
>
>Yep all of the 335 series are dry manifolds...
>
>From: Dennis Pearson
>>Is this true for the 351M? I thought it was only true for the 351C...but I
>>could be wrong again...

Yo Dennis:

The reason this is true for all 335 series engines (351C/351M/400) is that they
share a common cylinder head design. None of the 335 series cylinder heads have
a provision for circulating coolant through the manifold.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:27:48 -0400
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes

Dave Resch wrote:
>
> >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:31:45 -0400
> >From: James Oxley
> >Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
> >
> >William S Hart wrote:
> >> I would think the first step would be to be sure its really a 400, and not
> >> a 351M with a different valve cover on it ...
> >
> >valve cover and sticker are the same. All stickers
> >said 351m/400 on them.
>
> Yo Ox:
>
> Even though after 351M production began in 1975, all M-blocks were identified as
> being in the same engine "family" (351M/400 or the later metric 5.8M/6.6 ) the
> sticker always called out the actual engine size too (i.e., 351 CID or 400 CID
> or metric equivalents).

Hmmm.., I'll have to look at mine again. I don't recall it saying. Maybe
I have a 400 then (yeah right!!, LOL).

OX
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:08:28 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes

>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:50:10 CDT
>From: Jett Rink
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Engine ID sticker / codes
>
>Verify the engine code on the block, this will
>identify it as either a 351M or 400M. By the way,
>"M" engines are actually called 335 series due
>to their 3.35" con rod length, as 429s/460s are
>referred to by Ford as 385 series.

Yo Jett:

Bill B. corrected most of the misconceptions about M-block engines, but I wanted
to add a couple of notes.

The 400 was the last pushrod V8 designed by Ford and it is based (very) loosely
on the 351 Cleveland. The 400 shares the 351 Cleveland's valve train
(everything except the push rods), cylinder heads (2V only), pistons (more or
less), and a few accessories (oil pump, water pump, and fuel pump are all unique
to the 335 series). The 400 block is completely different from the 351
Cleveland, the only dimensions in common being the cylinder bore size and bore
spacing (which allows them to share the cylinder head design).

The 351M was a simple de-stroked derivative of the 400. The 351M used all the
400 components, except for the crankshaft and pistons (which is how Ford
destroked the 400). The same cast parts were used for both the 351M and 400
engines (engine block, cylinder heads, exhaust and intake manifolds), so there
is no way you can determine whether the engine is a 351M or 400 from the
external cast part numbers. The only M-block part that has a truly distinctive
casting number is the crankshaft.

From what I've read, the designations 335 and 385 originated as Ford's internal
engineering project numbers. (The stroke of the 460 is 3.85", but that seems to
be a mere coincidence.)

As for the Ford Motorsports catalog, the Engine Specifications table in the back
gives all the major engine dimensions (including connecting rod length) for all
Ford Family engines. Nowhere in its many references to the 400 engine does the
Motorsports catalog refer to it as a 400M. In all the literature I've seen,
Ford applied the M designation only to the 351M, and Ford never even used that
designation before the 351M was introduced in 1975, only after 4 years of 400
production.

AFAIK, the term "M-block" is made up and not used by Ford either. I like it
because it differentiates the 351M/400 family from the other 335 series engine
(the 351C) and it refers to their common components (everything except
crankshaft and pistons).

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:41:58 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 400 intake gasket

Well I just got the new gasket kit for my 400 today, Sheesh!...the intake
gasket looks more like a hard part than a gasket! Anybody have any problems
installing this monster after having the block &/or heads milled?

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"



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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:08:23 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 intake gasket

>Well I just got the new gasket kit for my
>400 today, Sheesh!...the intake gasket looks
>more like a hard part than a gasket!
>Anybody have any problems installing
>this monster after having the block &/or
>heads milled?

Yo Bill:

I assume you're talking about the valley pan gasket? Your M-block heads should
each have a locating dowel on the intake manifold mating surface of each head.
(I'm thinking it's on the right end as you face the intake surface, but can't
remember for sure.) The locating dowels are above the intake manifold and they
line up with a little notch in each side of the valley pan gasket. They
position the gasket from the top, not the bottom. As long as the notches line
up correctly w/ the locating dowels, the ports will line up correctly w/ the
gasket, regardless of any shaving off the heads, block, or manifold.

If your machine shop is doing any work on the intake manifold mating surface,
they may remove those dowels. Make sure you ask them to replace them, if
necessary. Even if your head(s) is missing the dowel (like the 400 long block
CJ put into that '77 he was restoring), you can use a small bolt or a short
piece of rod stock as a substitute. Once the intake manifold is cinched down,
the dowel doesn't do anything.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:11:41 EDT
From: Sandoz2545 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fast Idle on 300-6 w/4bbl

I have installed some headers, a new intake, and a Holley 4160 390cfm, on my
77 F100 with a 300-6 and a 3 speed. My idle is way off, I dont have a tach,
but I can let the clutch out in first gear and the truck will accelerate
pretty fast, If I give it gas, I smoke the tires. The only time I go to a
somewhat regular idle is in third gear, however it still accelerates a bit.
My throttle cable is good, and I have tried to fool with the fast idle
adjustment screw (I took it out at one point). I have the full manifold
vacuum source inlet and the black inlet near the top of the electric choke
capped off. I have removed my EGR (since the new headers and intake didnt
have provisions for it) and I have the hose on the oil cap capped.
Everything else is right... I think.

Thanks
Eric Payne
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:34:10 -0700
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Stiff Steering

Large tires will definitely make it harder to steer. Also, these small
sports steering wheels make them harder to steer. Try jacking the front
end up so that the wheels are off the ground and turn the wheel to detect
any "drag". If there is "drag", start unhooking stuff. Like the Pitman
arm. Now you've isolated the steering from the front end. Find the
culprit at the top end or bottom. I also read on this list that a shorter
pitman arm can be used to make steering easier. I certainly would if it
will fit.
Now, lets get down to the facts of life. Mid sixties Ford trucks just
steered hard. That's why they were shipped with a large steering wheel.
Believe me, they weren't big enough. Power steering in 1966 was an option
and Ford also made a kit available to convert them. See my post last week
for kit parts. The bottom line is- change it over to power steering like I
did. It is worth every penny and hour spent. Also, What does tramline mean?

Tim 66F100 SWB Custom Cap 352 P/S & O/D
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:50:40 -0700
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Stiff Steering

Also, What does tramline mean? If tramlining means that the vehicle
wanders and you have to keep adjusting the steering wheel to keep it
straight, a couple of things need to be investigated. The linkage
including the tie rod ends and ball joints must be tight and loose. Ball
joints like king pins dont have to be old to be doing harm. If these
joints are dry and rusted, they will resist steering. When a vehicle sits
for a while, it tends to stiffen up. If the truck only has 66K miles on
it, it's spent some time in someones garage. If the truck wanders and the
linkage is tight, it can be corrected by having the caster set up to the
maximum limit. I think it's about 5.25 degrees. Beware, more caster will
help the beast track better; but it will also make it steer harder. Again,
power steering is probably the answer in the end. Putting the original
steering kit on will keep it original and the judges won't dock you for it.

Tim 66F100 SWB Custom Cap 352 P/S & O/D
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:09:04 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Stiff Steering

In a message dated 6/30/99 7:37:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
theoconnors mindspring.com writes:

> Now, lets get down to the facts of life. Mid sixties Ford trucks just
> steered hard. That's why they were shipped with a large steering wheel.
> Believe me, they weren't big enough.

I generally agree except I wonder what you are considering "hard". I have a
66 F-250 2wd Manual Steering which steers quite well, but everything is up to
snuff in it. I can easily steer with one hand and even turn to either
extreme at a stand-still with little effort. King pins are usually the
biggest culprit with hard steering. Next I would vote for the steering box.
There is a tendency for the well-intentioned to over-tighten the
sector-shaft adjustment screw which will make the steering gear bind thus
causing hard steering.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (in need of factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:17:26 -0400
From: Bill Templeton
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Diesel in '66

The owner's manual of my '66 F-350 indicates also that a diesel was an option.

I would sure like to line up a diesel (and appropriate transmission) that
would reasonably fit in my 66 F-350. Has anyone had experience or got ideas
on this?

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:44:34 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fast Idle on 300-6 w/4bbl

>My throttle cable is good, and I have tried to fool with the fast idle
>adjustment screw (I took it out at one point). I have the full manifold
>vacuum source inlet and the black inlet near the top of the electric choke
>capped off.

Have you tried messing with the idle screw instead of the fast idle one ?
there should be one right behind the linkage for the accelerator ... I'm
not real familiar with the 390 holley's, but most of them have a screw back
there and if you back that off it should bring the idle down a bit ... it
does sound like yours is pretty high... also be sure the choke is all the
way off so the fast idle won't come into play at all.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:50:46 -0700
From: Crfreed kktv.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re - Bronco Flooding

Thanks for the tips - man I hope that smoke isn't oil! I'll have to
look a little deeper to find out I guess.

The spacer I'm using is phenolic - don't know why I said rubber - feels
like a urethane bushing. When I stop the engine, the carb is cool to
the touch, probably because of this spacer, but when i feel it later,
its warmed up alot. The elec fuel pump is a Carter with max
output of 5 psi, plus I've got a pressure regulator in line also set at
5. I
will check the timing.

The valve guides are bronze, not knurled; so if it is oil, maybe a ring
cracked or something. Time to look at compress all around

again, thanks
Charles
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:08:41 EDT
From: JefriHansn aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 429 crank specs

Okay - I finally got my engine back from the machine shop - had a
heck of a time getting the crank to balence (68 429 out of a Tunderbird). I
got the book "How to rebuild you ford V8 which gives millions of spec's
except for one. It suggests the use of plastigage to verify the bearings,
even tells you what color it is (green for .001-.003), and how to do it. But
it doesn't tell you squat about what the reading should be. The crank was
turned to 20 thousands over on the mains, 10 over on the rods. I checked the
number three main twice. Once at 90 lbs torque, the second at 105. I got
.002 both times. My haynes manual for a 73-79 460 says it should read .0012
- - .0015. Is this too toight, or too loose, or right in there?
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:31:21 -0600
From: "Grady M. Shock"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 78 Ranger Lariat door panels

Thanks for the reply Darrell however that unfortunately leads me to my
next problem. I only have the passenger side panel left the other was lost
long ago. You think maybe Ford still sells the panels (probably wishful
thinking) ?

>>If your careful, you can remove your padded portion,
and add it too the plain jane JC whitney panel.

- -Grady Shock 78 F-150 4x4 400, T-18



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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:37:57 -0600
From: "Grady M. Shock"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Stiff Steering

Eric,
Most likely this doesn't apply to you but maybe it'll be of use to
someone. When my truck was tramlining horribly(so bad I had trouble holding
onto the wheel on certain roads). I ended up swapping the factory hubs out
for warns and figured out the guy I purchased my truck from put the drivers
side hub together so that it worked backwards or another passenger side hub
in it's place (hard to remember) Pretty sure the factory hubs were made for
specific sides. That turned out to be the problem hasn't done it since. This
was about a year ago and I run 33x12.50's


>>Tramlining describes a vehicle's proclivity to follow ruts in a road, as
it would follow street car rails. Wide tires often cause it.

- -Grady Shock 78 F-150 4x4 400, T-18


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:52:01 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 78 Ranger Lariat door panels

have you tried local You Pull It yards?

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
members.aol.com/ianboss60/page/home.htm
True Blue Ford Blue
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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:08:43 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 429 crank specs

The Ford factory manual for a 76 460 says .0008-.0015 desired, .0008-.0028
allowable on the the rods. The mains are a little more complicated:

#1 .0004-.0015 desired, .0004-.0028 allowable.
#2-#5 .0009-.0015 desired, .0009-.0026 allowable.

Looks like you're a little on the high end but within specs. Did you tell
the guy machining your crank that you were putting a high volume pump in?
Some of the good ones will machine in a little extra clearance if you do.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: JefriHansn aol.com
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 8:10 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 429 crank specs


> Okay - I finally got my engine back from the machine shop - had a
>heck of a time getting the crank to balence (68 429 out of a Tunderbird).
I
>got the book "How to rebuild you ford V8 which gives millions of spec's
>except for one. It suggests the use of plastigage to verify the bearings,
>even tells you what color it is (green for .001-.003), and how to do it.
But
>it doesn't tell you squat about what the reading should be. The crank was
>turned to 20 thousands over on the mains, 10 over on the rods. I checked
the
>number three main twice. Once at 90 lbs torque, the second at 105. I got
>.002 both times. My haynes manual for a 73-79 460 says it should read
.0012
>- .0015. Is this too toight, or too loose, or right in there?



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:03:22 -0600
From: "Weber"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Fleetside boxes

Years ago I remember seeing ads for fiberglass boxes. Does anyone still
make them? I have also heard rumors of new boxes being made, any truth to
this?
Thanks,
Mike
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:16:41 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Fleetside boxes

I know Midwest Fender makes brand new reproduction boxes(steel) for many
trucks, getting one soon for my truck, $ 995 for a 79 long-bed, no tailgate
or light fixtures, but those aren't hard to come by, I can get the number if
you want, I'd imagine that they ship orders, it's only 5 miles from me though
so I've never checked out shipping,

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
memebers.aol.com/ianboss69/page/home.htm
True Blue Ford Blue
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:49:48 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Truck

hey,
was just looking over some web sites tonight, i like the 2 tone scheme on
some of your trucks and instead of painting my whole truck acapulco blue i
was thinking, blue on the bottom and white on top, but, mine is a custom so
it has no side trim to serve as a seperation point, my question is this:
does the side trim have to be mounted by drilling holes into the body or can
it be attached by some other means?

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
members.aol.com/ianboss69/page/home.htm
True Blue Ford Blue
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:49:35 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling Brakes

In a message dated 6/30/99 8:20:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
REvans8341 aol.com writes:


pedal when the motor is running (Power Brakes). It started suddenley and
sounds like 2 dogs howling at each other in the middle of the night. Not a
bark, but a "howl." I've looked at the master cylinder, the wheel cylinders
and the shoes and drums and can't see any leaks or anything else unusual.
Everything is working normally otherwise, except for this howl. Does anyone
have any idea what it might be...any help and/or advice is appreciated...Bob
>>

Sounds to me like the vacuum booster is going bad.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F250 4x4 460
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