From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #210
Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Errors-To: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Precedence: bulk


61-79-list-digest Sunday, June 20 1999 Volume 03 : Number 210



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe, send email to:
majordomo ford-trucks.com
with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list-digest" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Tranny Troubles
FTE 61-79 - Tranny Troubles
FTE 61-79 - Tranny Troubles
FTE 61-79 - Steering Wheel Restoration
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
FTE 61-79 - RE: Tire Sizes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tire sizes
Re: FTE 61-79 - '67 disc brake conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - window tint
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Tire Sizes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tire sizes
[none]
FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion
FTE 61-79 - Flywheel
Re: FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tire sizes

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:52:07 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tranny Troubles

> That's kind of ironic ... my sister has a 91 F250 with the E4OD, no
> problems with it, even ran it low when the gasket to the transfer case blew
> out ... the xfer case died, but the tranny is still goin strong ... over
> 100,000 on it, and no rebuild that we know of (we've only had it for the
> last 15,000 or so) .... she does have the 5.0 though, I wonder if most of
> the problems are related to high torque applications (ie 5.8+ and heavy
> towing, which she doesn't do any of )


This one is a 351W, and it's on a farm. It would fail after pulling a
weigh wagon or something similar. If it fails again, it may have to be
converted to a C-6.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:51:51 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tranny Troubles

> That's kind of ironic ... my sister has a 91 F250 with the E4OD, no
> problems with it, even ran it low when the gasket to the transfer case blew
> out ... the xfer case died, but the tranny is still goin strong ... over
> 100,000 on it, and no rebuild that we know of (we've only had it for the
> last 15,000 or so) .... she does have the 5.0 though, I wonder if most of
> the problems are related to high torque applications (ie 5.8+ and heavy
> towing, which she doesn't do any of )


This one is a 351W, and it's on a farm. It would fail after pulling a
weigh wagon or something similar. If it fails again, it may have to be
converted to a C-6.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 05:11:29 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tranny Troubles

>
> IMHO:) I thought the 460/E4OD combo was pretty sweet
>

The 351W and E4-OD is too, I like the way they drive, but they just
aren't as good as a C-6 for the tough stuff.

My theory is that the computer isn't (or wasn't) load sensitive enough.
A C-6 sets it's hard work shifting by a vacuam modulator that has a
direct effect on line pressure. The E4-OD seems to shift at the wrong
time when under a hard pull. Now I'm talking about pulling something
out a gumbo field everyday, not just pulling a little 8 footer to the
dump on the weekend.

I guarantee if it were weak enough to fail under weekend warrior use
(like the 700 was) folks would have been screaming about it, and rightly
so. The E4-OD has the bulk to pull a freight train, so I think it was
electronics causing alot of it's trouble.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:04:06 -0700
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Steering Wheel Restoration

I'm not the person who wrote the article on steering wheel restoration.
However, I have read articles on the topic in either Mustang Monthly or
Skinned Knuckles or Auto Restorer in the recent past. If I can find the
article, I'll post the reference or contact me off-list.

If Deacon Blue is still on the list, did you finish your 71
Restoration? My link to your web page doesn't seem to work; but I've
been too busy to cruise the Ford Trucks website for perhaps a better
reference.

Tim Bowman
Burien, WA
71 F-100


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:51:40 -0500
From: "Johannes Fluetter"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material

In electronics, we use larger heat sinks to pull heat from the
heat-generating components and dissipate this heat to outside air. The
larger the heat sink, the greater the surface area to dissipate this heat.

John F.
>>
>>>I don't think you'll need them, you see the older rotors are thicker and
>can
>>>stand a little more heat than the newer ones, so go organic and leave the
>>>metal on the rotor and not in your pad " on older models only".
>>
>>
>>Hmmm...I'm not sure I agree here ... thicker makes it HARDER to dissipate
>>heat, not easier ... glass is a good example of this, if you take a very
>>cold glass and dump hot/warm water into it, the thicker glasses will
crack,
>>possibly shatter. The thinner ones will look normal, and not sustain any
>>cracking. Its much easier to dissipate heat when there's less volume to
do
>>it through....
>>
>
>
>Hmmm.. You got me thinking with this one. The rate at which heat is
>dissipated from the brakes, that is *removed entirely* from the system, is
>dependant on how quickly it is convected from the pads, rotors, etc. to the
>surrounding air. This is dependant mainly on the geometry of the parts
>(drums vs. rotors, solid or vented), the relative speed of the air and the
>brakes (how fast the wheels are turning), and the temperature difference of
>the air and the brakes. This convection from the surface to the air is the
>bottleneck in removing heat from the brakes.
>
>Now, when you go from 60mph to zero, all the kinetic energy of the moving
>truck is converted into heat energy at the surface of the pads and rotors.
>This heat is not immediately convected away to the surrounding air though,
>it is first conducted away from the rotor-pad interface to the surrounding
>material. Heat conducts quickly through metals especially relative to the
>rate at which it is convected from the surface to the air so I would guess
>the rotors and pads quickly reach an almost uniform temperature (as soon as
>you take your foot off the brake anyway). A thick rotor will be cooler than
>a thin one given an equal amount of energy added to it simply because it
has
>more mass.
>
>You can think of a rotor as a heat cache. The heat created from braking is
>quickly conducted away from the braking surface into the rotor and pads.
>Then the slower process of convecting the heat to the surroundings can take
>place. Thicker rotor means bigger cache and lower temperature.
>
>Wish's statement that a thinner pad will dissipate heat quicker is true but
>probably not for the reason he was thinking. Since a greater temperature
>gradient means greater convection cooling rate a thinner hotter pad will
>dissipate heat quicker to the surroundings that a thicker cooler one. A
>thicker pad dissipates heat slightly slower but it maintains the braking
>surface at a lower temperature which is what you want.
>
>As for the example of thick or thin glass this is another interesting one.
I
>believe this phenomena is due to the difference between plane-stress and
>plane-strain loading, not to any difference in heat transfer
characteristic.
>Basically just because it's thick the glass will behave more brittle. I'd
>have to get a book to figure out the details.
>
>I hope any of this makes sense. I'm not always good at explaining stuff.
>
> -joel
>
>'79 F150, 351m, NP435
>
>
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:58:38 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Tire Sizes

What do you mean a 16.5 won't fit (Or looks like it) on a F-250. Do you think they made 17" wheels for it in 1979? Had to be 16.5's.

George Selby
78 F-150 400M, 4 on floor, 4x4
86 Audi 4000CS Quattro
IsuzuG prodigy.net



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:05:25 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tire sizes

My 79 4X4 F250 has 16.5 and they fit fine.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tire sizes


>i checked the front brakes out, looks to me like a 17" wheel was a tight
>fit, no way a 16" or 16.5" would fit, sooo, anybody know if they even make
>aftermarket wheels in 17"(for a truck that is) and i was looking at 35"
>mickey thompson baja's or SS Thornbirds, I've decided to go ahead and
install
>a 4 inch lift on it rather than buy new stock height leafsprings, thats why
>i've decided just to go up to 35", the front leafsprings look pretty rusted
>down, starting to flake metal strips off, back springs are ok but they
could
>use replacing too, why is it we get a plan in our head, a cheap economical,
>easy plan, then we end up spending 3 times what we bought the truck for?
>anybody? oh well it'll be worth it in the end,



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:05:51 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '67 disc brake conversion

At 02:54 PM 6/18/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks for the info and the point to the tech article. I have a couple
>questions though.
>
>The truck (F100) has manual brakes. What booster/master cylinder do I use?
>Will the one from the donor '74 F100 work?

Yes.

>The donor truck had kingpins
>done last year and we can take the whole spindle/I beam assembly, but will
>the newer I beams work?
>

Yes.


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:36:55 CDT
From: Robert Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - window tint

Make sure you get 3M brand metallized tint, guaranteed for life, won't turn
purple.


>From: IanBoss69 aol.com
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - window tint
>Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:50:51 EDT
>
>around central ohio i've seen kids running around with 5% tint, never seen
>or
>heard about any body getting pulled over for tint around here,
>
>Ian
>79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
>
>"True Blue,,,Ford Blue"
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:40:09 CDT
From: Robert Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material

You could just be brief and say Detroit has gone to lighter rotors for fuel
economy and semi metallic pads dissipate heat better.


>From: james shanks
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
>Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:07:01 -0600
>
>Good one Joel, pretty funny stuff he.he.he. look it's simple the whole
>reason
>for semi met
>pads are( and let's see if you can hold on to this bucking bronco long
>enough to
>understand this) Here go's, semi met pad's are on this earth because; In
>this
>day and age
>the technology for miles per gallon, on most auto's has reached it's peak,
>so
>with that said,
>the reason for that statement is that , the only way now of day's to get
>auto's
>( trucks ) to get better gas mileage ( which is mandated by the government,
>the
>federal type) is to cut
>down on the weight of the vech, the less it weights the less gas it takes
>to
>move the vech.
>Ok....now one of the places they do this shaving of weight is? ( guess )
>yes sir
>give the man a cigar, it's in the "rotors" and because of this, they had to
>come
>up with a way to take the heat from the rotors, which in older systems
>stayed in
>the rotors, hence the reason for thicker rotors in older systems, most of
>the
>heat was stored in the rotors, while
>using organic pads, which are made of asbestos (used to be at least) which
>tries
>to repel the heat back in to the rotors (again the reason for thicker
>rotors)
>which is the reason
>fire retardent cloths were made from the stuff and sprayed all over
>buildings so
>in a fire
>they don't catch fire.
>Now on to semi met pads, they are made of iorn,walnut shells, brass
>filings, for
>(one reason) and it's to take the heat from the newer thinner rotors and
>puts
>them in to the
>pads, keeping the heat away from the one thing you do not want to get hot
>in a
>brake system ( the brake fluid ) they are harder on rotors because they are
>made
>mostly out of
>metal, and when you rub metal to metal, yes you are starting to get it,
>they
>both wear out,
>of course the pads faster than the rotors, but non the less you get the
>idea
>(yes?) and this
>is the reason for semi met pads and thinner rotors, older organic pads
>,with
>thicker rotors
>which after a 100 years of automotive technology they found they did not
>need
>the heat in the rotors, right next to the brake fluid? and that asbestos
>causes
>cancer, so they killed two birds with one stone. So how ever you want to
>look at
>it ,your way ,or mine in the end
>your selection of pads for your vech are many, you just need to figure out
>what
>the best
>application to use. Well I hope you understand , because I think I hurt my
>self
>explaining it.he..he..ha.ha.
>my qualifications are 30 years as a master tech in the biz, (now out of it
>for
>5) jim
>
>Joel Minsky wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William S Hart
> > >
> > >>I don't think you'll need them, you see the older rotors are thicker
>and
> > can
> > >>stand a little more heat than the newer ones, so go organic and leave
>the
> > >>metal on the rotor and not in your pad " on older models only".
> > >
> > >
> > >Hmmm...I'm not sure I agree here ... thicker makes it HARDER to
>dissipate
> > >heat, not easier ... glass is a good example of this, if you take a
>very
> > >cold glass and dump hot/warm water into it, the thicker glasses will
>crack,
> > >possibly shatter. The thinner ones will look normal, and not sustain
>any
> > >cracking. Its much easier to dissipate heat when there's less volume
>to do
> > >it through....
> > >
> >
> > Hmmm.. You got me thinking with this one. The rate at which heat is
> > dissipated from the brakes, that is *removed entirely* from the system,
>is
> > dependant on how quickly it is convected from the pads, rotors, etc. to
>the
> > surrounding air. This is dependant mainly on the geometry of the parts
> > (drums vs. rotors, solid or vented), the relative speed of the air and
>the
> > brakes (how fast the wheels are turning), and the temperature difference
>of
> > the air and the brakes. This convection from the surface to the air is
>the
> > bottleneck in removing heat from the brakes.
> >
> > Now, when you go from 60mph to zero, all the kinetic energy of the
>moving
> > truck is converted into heat energy at the surface of the pads and
>rotors.
> > This heat is not immediately convected away to the surrounding air
>though,
> > it is first conducted away from the rotor-pad interface to the
>surrounding
> > material. Heat conducts quickly through metals especially relative to
>the
> > rate at which it is convected from the surface to the air so I would
>guess
> > the rotors and pads quickly reach an almost uniform temperature (as soon
>as
> > you take your foot off the brake anyway). A thick rotor will be cooler
>than
> > a thin one given an equal amount of energy added to it simply because it
>has
> > more mass.
> >
> > You can think of a rotor as a heat cache. The heat created from braking
>is
> > quickly conducted away from the braking surface into the rotor and pads.
> > Then the slower process of convecting the heat to the surroundings can
>take
> > place. Thicker rotor means bigger cache and lower temperature.
> >
> > Wish's statement that a thinner pad will dissipate heat quicker is true
>but
> > probably not for the reason he was thinking. Since a greater temperature
> > gradient means greater convection cooling rate a thinner hotter pad will
> > dissipate heat quicker to the surroundings that a thicker cooler one. A
> > thicker pad dissipates heat slightly slower but it maintains the braking
> > surface at a lower temperature which is what you want.
> >
> > As for the example of thick or thin glass this is another interesting
>one. I
> > believe this phenomena is due to the difference between plane-stress and
> > plane-strain loading, not to any difference in heat transfer
>characteristic.
> > Basically just because it's thick the glass will behave more brittle.
>I'd
> > have to get a book to figure out the details.
> >
> > I hope any of this makes sense. I'm not always good at explaining stuff.
> >
> > -joel
> >
> > '79 F150, 351m, NP435
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:33:16 -0600
From: james shanks
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material

that would be to easy.

Robert Brown wrote:

> You could just be brief and say Detroit has gone to lighter rotors for fuel
> economy and semi metallic pads dissipate heat better.
>
> >From: james shanks
> >Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> >To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> >Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
> >Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:07:01 -0600
> >
> >Good one Joel, pretty funny stuff he.he.he. look it's simple the whole
> >reason
> >for semi met
> >pads are( and let's see if you can hold on to this bucking bronco long
> >enough to
> >understand this) Here go's, semi met pad's are on this earth because; In
> >this
> >day and age
> >the technology for miles per gallon, on most auto's has reached it's peak,
> >so
> >with that said,
> >the reason for that statement is that , the only way now of day's to get
> >auto's
> >( trucks ) to get better gas mileage ( which is mandated by the government,
> >the
> >federal type) is to cut
> >down on the weight of the vech, the less it weights the less gas it takes
> >to
> >move the vech.
> >Ok....now one of the places they do this shaving of weight is? ( guess )
> >yes sir
> >give the man a cigar, it's in the "rotors" and because of this, they had to
> >come
> >up with a way to take the heat from the rotors, which in older systems
> >stayed in
> >the rotors, hence the reason for thicker rotors in older systems, most of
> >the
> >heat was stored in the rotors, while
> >using organic pads, which are made of asbestos (used to be at least) which
> >tries
> >to repel the heat back in to the rotors (again the reason for thicker
> >rotors)
> >which is the reason
> >fire retardent cloths were made from the stuff and sprayed all over
> >buildings so
> >in a fire
> >they don't catch fire.
> >Now on to semi met pads, they are made of iorn,walnut shells, brass
> >filings, for
> >(one reason) and it's to take the heat from the newer thinner rotors and
> >puts
> >them in to the
> >pads, keeping the heat away from the one thing you do not want to get hot
> >in a
> >brake system ( the brake fluid ) they are harder on rotors because they are
> >made
> >mostly out of
> >metal, and when you rub metal to metal, yes you are starting to get it,
> >they
> >both wear out,
> >of course the pads faster than the rotors, but non the less you get the
> >idea
> >(yes?) and this
> >is the reason for semi met pads and thinner rotors, older organic pads
> >,with
> >thicker rotors
> >which after a 100 years of automotive technology they found they did not
> >need
> >the heat in the rotors, right next to the brake fluid? and that asbestos
> >causes
> >cancer, so they killed two birds with one stone. So how ever you want to
> >look at
> >it ,your way ,or mine in the end
> >your selection of pads for your vech are many, you just need to figure out
> >what
> >the best
> >application to use. Well I hope you understand , because I think I hurt my
> >self
> >explaining it.he..he..ha.ha.
> >my qualifications are 30 years as a master tech in the biz, (now out of it
> >for
> >5) jim
> >
> >Joel Minsky wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: William S Hart
> > > >
> > > >>I don't think you'll need them, you see the older rotors are thicker
> >and
> > > can
> > > >>stand a little more heat than the newer ones, so go organic and leave
> >the
> > > >>metal on the rotor and not in your pad " on older models only".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hmmm...I'm not sure I agree here ... thicker makes it HARDER to
> >dissipate
> > > >heat, not easier ... glass is a good example of this, if you take a
> >very
> > > >cold glass and dump hot/warm water into it, the thicker glasses will
> >crack,
> > > >possibly shatter. The thinner ones will look normal, and not sustain
> >any
> > > >cracking. Its much easier to dissipate heat when there's less volume
> >to do
> > > >it through....
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hmmm.. You got me thinking with this one. The rate at which heat is
> > > dissipated from the brakes, that is *removed entirely* from the system,
> >is
> > > dependant on how quickly it is convected from the pads, rotors, etc. to
> >the
> > > surrounding air. This is dependant mainly on the geometry of the parts
> > > (drums vs. rotors, solid or vented), the relative speed of the air and
> >the
> > > brakes (how fast the wheels are turning), and the temperature difference
> >of
> > > the air and the brakes. This convection from the surface to the air is
> >the
> > > bottleneck in removing heat from the brakes.
> > >
> > > Now, when you go from 60mph to zero, all the kinetic energy of the
> >moving
> > > truck is converted into heat energy at the surface of the pads and
> >rotors.
> > > This heat is not immediately convected away to the surrounding air
> >though,
> > > it is first conducted away from the rotor-pad interface to the
> >surrounding
> > > material. Heat conducts quickly through metals especially relative to
> >the
> > > rate at which it is convected from the surface to the air so I would
> >guess
> > > the rotors and pads quickly reach an almost uniform temperature (as soon
> >as
> > > you take your foot off the brake anyway). A thick rotor will be cooler
> >than
> > > a thin one given an equal amount of energy added to it simply because it
> >has
> > > more mass.
> > >
> > > You can think of a rotor as a heat cache. The heat created from braking
> >is
> > > quickly conducted away from the braking surface into the rotor and pads.
> > > Then the slower process of convecting the heat to the surroundings can
> >take
> > > place. Thicker rotor means bigger cache and lower temperature.
> > >
> > > Wish's statement that a thinner pad will dissipate heat quicker is true
> >but
> > > probably not for the reason he was thinking. Since a greater temperature
> > > gradient means greater convection cooling rate a thinner hotter pad will
> > > dissipate heat quicker to the surroundings that a thicker cooler one. A
> > > thicker pad dissipates heat slightly slower but it maintains the braking
> > > surface at a lower temperature which is what you want.
> > >
> > > As for the example of thick or thin glass this is another interesting
> >one. I
> > > believe this phenomena is due to the difference between plane-stress and
> > > plane-strain loading, not to any difference in heat transfer
> >characteristic.
> > > Basically just because it's thick the glass will behave more brittle.
> >I'd
> > > have to get a book to figure out the details.
> > >
> > > I hope any of this makes sense. I'm not always good at explaining stuff.
> > >
> > > -joel
> > >
> > > '79 F150, 351m, NP435
> > >
> > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:46:11 CDT
From: Robert Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material

I enjoyed the explanation anyway.


>From: james shanks
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
>Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:33:16 -0600
>
>that would be to easy.
>
>Robert Brown wrote:
>
> > You could just be brief and say Detroit has gone to lighter rotors for
>fuel
> > economy and semi metallic pads dissipate heat better.
> >
> > >From: james shanks
> > >Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> > >To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> > >Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake lining material
> > >Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:07:01 -0600
> > >
> > >Good one Joel, pretty funny stuff he.he.he. look it's simple the whole
> > >reason
> > >for semi met
> > >pads are( and let's see if you can hold on to this bucking bronco long
> > >enough to
> > >understand this) Here go's, semi met pad's are on this earth because;
>In
> > >this
> > >day and age
> > >the technology for miles per gallon, on most auto's has reached it's
>peak,
> > >so
> > >with that said,
> > >the reason for that statement is that , the only way now of day's to
>get
> > >auto's
> > >( trucks ) to get better gas mileage ( which is mandated by the
>government,
> > >the
> > >federal type) is to cut
> > >down on the weight of the vech, the less it weights the less gas it
>takes
> > >to
> > >move the vech.
> > >Ok....now one of the places they do this shaving of weight is? ( guess
>)
> > >yes sir
> > >give the man a cigar, it's in the "rotors" and because of this, they
>had to
> > >come
> > >up with a way to take the heat from the rotors, which in older systems
> > >stayed in
> > >the rotors, hence the reason for thicker rotors in older systems, most
>of
> > >the
> > >heat was stored in the rotors, while
> > >using organic pads, which are made of asbestos (used to be at least)
>which
> > >tries
> > >to repel the heat back in to the rotors (again the reason for thicker
> > >rotors)
> > >which is the reason
> > >fire retardent cloths were made from the stuff and sprayed all over
> > >buildings so
> > >in a fire
> > >they don't catch fire.
> > >Now on to semi met pads, they are made of iorn,walnut shells, brass
> > >filings, for
> > >(one reason) and it's to take the heat from the newer thinner rotors
>and
> > >puts
> > >them in to the
> > >pads, keeping the heat away from the one thing you do not want to get
>hot
> > >in a
> > >brake system ( the brake fluid ) they are harder on rotors because they
>are
> > >made
> > >mostly out of
> > >metal, and when you rub metal to metal, yes you are starting to get it,
> > >they
> > >both wear out,
> > >of course the pads faster than the rotors, but non the less you get the
> > >idea
> > >(yes?) and this
> > >is the reason for semi met pads and thinner rotors, older organic pads
> > >,with
> > >thicker rotors
> > >which after a 100 years of automotive technology they found they did
>not
> > >need
> > >the heat in the rotors, right next to the brake fluid? and that
>asbestos
> > >causes
> > >cancer, so they killed two birds with one stone. So how ever you want
>to
> > >look at
> > >it ,your way ,or mine in the end
> > >your selection of pads for your vech are many, you just need to figure
>out
> > >what
> > >the best
> > >application to use. Well I hope you understand , because I think I hurt
>my
> > >self
> > >explaining it.he..he..ha.ha.
> > >my qualifications are 30 years as a master tech in the biz, (now out of
>it
> > >for
> > >5) jim
> > >
> > >Joel Minsky wrote:
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: William S Hart
> > > > >
> > > > >>I don't think you'll need them, you see the older rotors are
>thicker
> > >and
> > > > can
> > > > >>stand a little more heat than the newer ones, so go organic and
>leave
> > >the
> > > > >>metal on the rotor and not in your pad " on older models only".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Hmmm...I'm not sure I agree here ... thicker makes it HARDER to
> > >dissipate
> > > > >heat, not easier ... glass is a good example of this, if you take a
> > >very
> > > > >cold glass and dump hot/warm water into it, the thicker glasses
>will
> > >crack,
> > > > >possibly shatter. The thinner ones will look normal, and not
>sustain
> > >any
> > > > >cracking. Its much easier to dissipate heat when there's less
>volume
> > >to do
> > > > >it through....
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm.. You got me thinking with this one. The rate at which heat is
> > > > dissipated from the brakes, that is *removed entirely* from the
>system,
> > >is
> > > > dependant on how quickly it is convected from the pads, rotors, etc.
>to
> > >the
> > > > surrounding air. This is dependant mainly on the geometry of the
>parts
> > > > (drums vs. rotors, solid or vented), the relative speed of the air
>and
> > >the
> > > > brakes (how fast the wheels are turning), and the temperature
>difference
> > >of
> > > > the air and the brakes. This convection from the surface to the air
>is
> > >the
> > > > bottleneck in removing heat from the brakes.
> > > >
> > > > Now, when you go from 60mph to zero, all the kinetic energy of the
> > >moving
> > > > truck is converted into heat energy at the surface of the pads and
> > >rotors.
> > > > This heat is not immediately convected away to the surrounding air
> > >though,
> > > > it is first conducted away from the rotor-pad interface to the
> > >surrounding
> > > > material. Heat conducts quickly through metals especially relative
>to
> > >the
> > > > rate at which it is convected from the surface to the air so I would
> > >guess
> > > > the rotors and pads quickly reach an almost uniform temperature (as
>soon
> > >as
> > > > you take your foot off the brake anyway). A thick rotor will be
>cooler
> > >than
> > > > a thin one given an equal amount of energy added to it simply
>because it
> > >has
> > > > more mass.
> > > >
> > > > You can think of a rotor as a heat cache. The heat created from
>braking
> > >is
> > > > quickly conducted away from the braking surface into the rotor and
>pads.
> > > > Then the slower process of convecting the heat to the surroundings
>can
> > >take
> > > > place. Thicker rotor means bigger cache and lower temperature.
> > > >
> > > > Wish's statement that a thinner pad will dissipate heat quicker is
>true
> > >but
> > > > probably not for the reason he was thinking. Since a greater
>temperature
> > > > gradient means greater convection cooling rate a thinner hotter pad
>will
> > > > dissipate heat quicker to the surroundings that a thicker cooler
>one. A
> > > > thicker pad dissipates heat slightly slower but it maintains the
>braking
> > > > surface at a lower temperature which is what you want.
> > > >
> > > > As for the example of thick or thin glass this is another
>interesting
> > >one. I
> > > > believe this phenomena is due to the difference between plane-stress
>and
> > > > plane-strain loading, not to any difference in heat transfer
> > >characteristic.
> > > > Basically just because it's thick the glass will behave more
>brittle.
> > >I'd
> > > > have to get a book to figure out the details.
> > > >
> > > > I hope any of this makes sense. I'm not always good at explaining
>stuff.
> > > >
> > > > -joel
> > > >
> > > > '79 F150, 351m, NP435
> > > >
> > > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
>http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> > >
> > >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
>http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:58:02 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Tire Sizes

my wheel s are 17" as far as i know they are original, if they arent they're
still pretty old, all i know is that theres about 1/2" of space between the
brakes and the wheel, in some places its less than that

Ian
79 f250 4x4 4spd 351M

True Blue ,,,Ford Blue
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:59:30 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tire sizes

did all the f250's in 79 have the same brake assemblys? the brakes in back
are much smaller also than the front ones,

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M

True Blue,,,Ford Blue
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:40:07 -0500
From: "MICHAEL HOLMES"
Subject: [none]

Is there a conversion kit available to mount a 460 cubic inch engine into a
79 Ford F100?

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:58:08 -0400
From: jdrvup mindspring.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion

We have been converting a 1965 F100 to disc brakes, following the article
from the website. The job is nearly complete, meaning the truck stops
nicely... however, there is one small problem remaining. The new brake
system is from a 74 F100. The brake lights don't work, because there's no
place to hook them up! Does anyone have any ideas to fix this? Can the
pressure switch from the 65 be reused somehow, or do we have to make the
brakelight switch (pedal operated) from the 74 work in the 65 somehow?
Thanks,

Joe
jdrvup mindspring.com

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:43:20 CDT
From: Robert Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion

It would probably be easier to fabricate a bracket and use the stop lamp
switch from the '74.


>From: jdrvup mindspring.com
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion
>Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:58:08 -0400
>
>We have been converting a 1965 F100 to disc brakes, following the article
>from the website. The job is nearly complete, meaning the truck stops
>nicely... however, there is one small problem remaining. The new brake
>system is from a 74 F100. The brake lights don't work, because there's no
>place to hook them up! Does anyone have any ideas to fix this? Can the
>pressure switch from the 65 be reused somehow, or do we have to make the
>brakelight switch (pedal operated) from the 74 work in the 65 somehow?
>Thanks,
>
>Joe
>jdrvup mindspring.com
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:12:44 -0700
From: Mike Pacheco
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Flywheel

Still looking for a flywheel for a 351C... Need a flywheel for my truck,
my engine is about done and I'm not having any luck finding a flywheel
in the Seattle area, can anyone help me?

Mike in Burien

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 22:35:01 -0700
From: "Sam Weatherby"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Disc Brake Conversion

We mounted a switch from a couple years later to where the pedal stop is on
the '65...
Sam Weatherby SWeatherby ....


To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Registration is free, easy and gives you access to more features.
If you are not registered, click here to register.
If you are already registered, you can login here.

If you are already logged in and are seeing this message, your web browser is blocking session cookies. Change your browser cookie settings to allow session cookies.




Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Policy - Jobs

This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.