61-79-list-digest Monday, March 8 1999 Volume 03 : Number 081



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Electrical shocks at truck body
Re: FTE 61-79 - Camper lights? / Cam Duration FEs
FTE 61-79 - The '70's
FTE 61-79 - Aluminum Heads
FTE 61-79 - Transmission modulator valve replacement
FTE 61-79 - RE: Camper Lights / Cam Duration FE's
FTE 61-79 - seat belts
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Camper Lights / Cam Duration FE's
FTE 61-79 - 351W-427
FTE 61-79 - 351W-427..Don't Mean No Harm
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351m400 cant get enough of that .....
Re: FTE 61-79 - Bargain balance / engine paint color
FTE 61-79 - seat belts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Electrical shocks at truck body
FTE 61-79 - bug guts, was glass glue
FTE 61-79 - 460 BiG ProBlem - ReBuild TimE!!!
FTE 61-79 - buried treasure
FTE 61-79 - RE was 79 upgrades - Then 302/FE valve covers Now meaning of abb reviations
FTE 61-79 - RE:Lots of questions on Winsor, kinda long
RE: FTE 61-79 - RE:Lots of questions on Winsor, kinda long
RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 BiG ProBlem - ReBuild TimE!!!
RE: FTE 61-79 - '64 ignition switch
Re: FTE 61-79 - bug guts, was glass glue
Re: FTE 61-79 - seat belts
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351m400 cant get enough of that .....
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition System "Possessed"
FTE 61-79 - FE Shorty Headers - FPA
FTE 61-79 - Big Road Trip in the 67'
Re: FTE 61-79 - Big Road Trip in the 67'
FTE 61-79 - parts
RE: FTE 61-79 - '64 ignition switch - Part.2
RE: FTE 61-79 - parts
FTE 61-79 - 460 rebuild for mileage?
RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 rebuild for mileage?
Re: FTE 61-79 - parts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition System "Possessed"
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 BiG ProBlem - ReBuild TimE!!!
FTE 61-79 - Re: header for a 300
Re: FTE 61-79 - parts
RE: FTE 61-79 - seat belts (Contact Info)
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: header for a 300
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: header for a 300
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission modulator valve replacement

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 03:51:41 -0700
From: "James Draughn"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Electrical shocks at truck body

Damn, I spelled Buick wrong, Sorry guys, I wasint driving a Buck as my first
car, don't think they would go that fast anyhow, if one let me ride it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: James Draughn
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Electrical shocks at truck body


>Do you have any aftermarket stereo system installed? I had a Buck once (my
>first car) and I had a 800 watt system in it and it would shock me only
when
>I went to get out of the car, never getting in, wether it was dry or wet,
>din't matter. The problem went away after awhile but I can't remember if
it
>happened because I changed something in my car audio system(always tweakin)
>or if it went away by itself. If you had ANY aftermarket lights, stereos,
>heaters ect... I would check the wiring, unhook it temporarily and see if
it
>goes away. I hope this helpes, good luck.
>
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 05:48:35 EST
From: My427Stang aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Camper lights? / Cam Duration FEs

I ADAMANTLY dont agree with the 260 cam for an FE, not even a 360. These
motors, especially a 428, really run undersize valves compared to a Big Chevy,
and worse than the valve size is the port design. We spent lots of time
(money) trying to get an FE head to flow basically what a stock Chevy head
would do. 428 cubic inches, and especially a long stroke like the 428, needs
the valve open to fill the cylinder. Think of it like pulling a plunger up,
then blocking the water source. When you start getting under 280 degrees
duration, you are running less cam than a stock 4 barrel 390. Even in the case
of emission, the lack of fuel/air will make poor flame travel.

For the 428, (who knows whose it is, there has been so many letters I
just reply to everybody, I guess I am typical know it all) I wouldnt dare run
anything less than 280, and I would go as high as 292, if the cam was cheap
, remember this is a big motor with lots of compression and lots of
inertia in that rotating mass, torque will not be a problem.

I run a 280 dur Comp cams in a 390, with a 428PI intake, it runs out of cam at
5500, drop that 500 for a 428, and I set intial timing at 10 degrees, and run
a slightly weaker spring set in a Duraspark, and NEVER get a ping, even with
cheap gas. Keep in mind this is a 71 4x4 4 speed with 35 inch tires and
3.73's, not really the perfect gear / tire size combo, but the truck doesnt
know any better, and it gets 12-15 on the street with tire smoking power,
literally. The added power of coming up on cam around 2500 is sure nice when
you are dropping a gear to climb a hill with a trailer on back. I
wholeheartedly recommend this cam, however, in a 390, it doesnt really "sound"
like a cam, in a 428 it would be significantly milder still. Try this one, or
look for a similar dual pattern, a new style 280 intake, with around 288 exh
duration would make it even better for the horrible Ford exh ports. I promise
I am not exaggerating, come to Mass some time and we can go out on the coldest
of mornings, let it idle and you can see how driveable the truck is, then we
can hook the tow bar to our rollback and I will pull it around town!!!

Dont undercam an FE, all you will get it a high cyl pressure, pinging,
miserable motor. As for the intake, follow the same rule, stay away from the
straight Performer (I KNOW ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS) but, I had a Performer, a
stock 390 iron intake and a 428PI all on the flowbench and on my truck, and
the Performer was the worse throughout the RPM range, including low end, the
stock iron one flowed more than the Performer, but less than the PI. The end
result was the 428PI lost no measureable low end, but ran "holy cow I cant
believe it made such a difference" through the entire curve and was much
lighter. I was so disgusted after spending 300 bucks on a Performer, that its
on our shop truck now. blah blah blah - Buy a 280 duration cam and a
Performer RPM or 428PI aluminum intake, and most importantly a set of headers
and you will be very happy I spent all my cash as a young man
experimenting.........

As you can tell, this is probably more important to me than most, what a gear
head huh. But I built a pile of 390's especially after my truck hit the
streets in a small town, and more often than not, if you follow the small
block chevy cam choice rule, as most Hot Rod and 4x4 books write about, you
wont be happy in the FE. If a customer let us do our thing, they were
thrilled, if we followed the their mild choices, ultimately we ended up
setting inital timing at about 6 degrees, and it wasnt anymore than a stock
390. Try to get a customer to be excited about something thats no more
powerful than when they started....tough to get paid that way.

Anyway, thanks for listening, 240lbs, my foot just fell through the soap box,
time to climb down - Ross
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 06:07:16 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - The '70's

> Well unfortunately in the late 70's I was still racing Ch*vys so I wasn't
> into blue ovals tho' I did help a buddy rebuild the 360 in a 71 F-250 that
> he got for free 'cause it kept blowing the oil filter off the engine.

Man you were worse off than me... we're here for you man.
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 06:22:50 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum Heads

> >truck work (pull sustained loads). Aluminum heads will work at that ratio on
> >pump gas, they resist knocking better due to their enhanced cooling
> >characteristics of the combustion chamber. The cam probably should be
> >factored on some mean RPM of the engine, which is a result of your final gear
> >ratio. If you have a ratio of 4.11:1 or lower (meaning bigger numbers) I
> >think something like a 268 or a 270 cam would work nice. You seem to be
> >leaning toward the Edelbrock Performer manifold, you know they make a matched
> >cam to go with that manifold, I know one person who is successfully using
> that

Some things to really watch with aluminum heads in a truck application.
They are soaking up alot of combustion heat. You need to watch the
condition of the coolant and be sure the thermostat is working.
Aluminum can reduce the tendency to detonate by improved dissipation,
but will get hurt quicker if the cooling system can't carry off the
residual heat. Also, you should flush the coolant at the least every
two years if you have even so much as an aluminum intake. The aluminum
seems to react with the coolant and makes it break down quicker than if
you have all iron.
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:33:32 -0500
From: "Robert Hutchinson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Transmission modulator valve replacement

My neighbor is in the process of trying to replace the auto trans modulator
valve on his 78 F-100 w/302. The Haynes and Chilton's books we've looked at
don't have an illustration of what the modulator valve looks like and how to
properly take it off. Anybody have any advice?

Robert E. Hutchinson
hutch297 groupz.net

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:08:50 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Camper Lights / Cam Duration FE's

> How would one of these cams be for towing? How about emissions?
> I have a 428 that will ping under heavy load if I'm not careful.
> I'm running a RV cam and it will just squeak by on the yearly
> smog test and only if I jet it waay down and drop the float waay
> down.I'm going to install a aluminum intake soon(which might help
> a little w/detonation)so it would be a good time to change cams.


Here's Crane's description of the Power-Max 272:

Power-Max Hydraulic Lifter Camshafts for Emissions Controlled Vehicles
without Computer.

Power-Max H272-2

Good idle, daily usage and off-road, towing, performance and fuel
efficiency, 2600-3000 rpm cruise. 8.75-10.75 to 1 compression advised.
Basic RPM 2000-5000.

I ran it on my Desktop Dyno and came up with 427 lbs.ft 3500 and 340
hp 4500, using conservative settings and through small tube headers
and mufflers. Open small tube headers netted 445 lbs ft 3500 and 370
hp 4500. The torque band was nearly flat from 2000 to 4500 giving up
400 lbs.ft 2000 closed exhaust and 415 open exhaust and about the same
at 4500.

Not a bad cam I think. The beauty seems to be that it can handle
compression without creating excessive cylinder pressure under load,
effectively bleeding off a little to prevent detonation. I'm only going
by what I'm seeing in their documentation though, it might be a
different story in a real application.
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:13:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Jesus Cardoso
Subject: FTE 61-79 - seat belts

Howdy!

I also have been looking for a three point seat belt system for my
63. I am not willing to spend the 90 buck that Juliano's wants for their
set. So that leaves two options look for some at my local bone yard or
find a cheaper new set. This leads to my questions, I found a three point
system advertised by G.E.M. Street Rod Products out of Covina, CA. They
state that their three point systems are as low as $56.95.
Has anyone ever delt with this company? Any information that you
have one them would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

|-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^|
Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy
Graduate Research Assistant
Power System Automation Lab
Department of Electrical Engineering
Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843-3128

w: 409.845.4623, fax: 409.845.6259, h: 409.775.0737
e-mail: cardoso tamu.edu, jesus_cardoso email.com
url: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ee.tamu.edu/~cardoso
|-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^|

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:19:26 EST
From: My427Stang aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Camper Lights / Cam Duration FE's

Power-Max H272-2

Good idle, daily usage and off-road, towing, performance and fuel
efficiency, 2600-3000 rpm cruise. 8.75-10.75 to 1 compression advised.
Basic RPM 2000-5000.

Good cam, but whats the application, the curve will be far different in a 360
vs a 428, thats 70 cubes!!! Ask them, and remember they are going to err on
the conservative side, and keep in mind, stock 428 is 270 intake / 280 exh
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:26:17 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351W-427

>
> You are spot on with the idea of rod ratio and cyl head limitations, which is
> an issue on a high rpm racer. First, for the rod ratio, my magic number has
> always been 1.7:1, not 2, not sure where I got it, one of those things you
> tuck away when young, but I believe the stroker 427 is right around there if I
> remember right. As for the displacement, it comes from a max bore and the
> stroke, not all stroke. I beleve the combo with stock bore is something like
> 406, which I would do before I built a one use grenade for the street.

The 351W-427 stroker has an LR of 1.7? I'm thinking alot lower, what's
the stroke and rod length exactly?

The 2:1 ratio will create sinusoidal (perfectly harmonic)motion of the
reciprocating assembly. 1.7 is fine too though, it's a pretty realistic
ratio in production. It could also make a good compromise between
better cylinder filling and good harmonics. 1.6 is still pretty good,
but will begin to suffer the effects just a little.

I was under the impression that the engine desired would be operating in
the 7000 rpm range with 13.8 to 1 compression on pump gas in a heavy
vehicle. The same issues of accellerated wear and poor efficiency would
still apply regardless in a lower-speed operation. Stroke is good for
torque, but the LR needs to keep pace to reap it's full benefits and
live under truck-type use. I'd say 1.5 to 1 really should be the lower
LR limit to an engine that is expected to deliver extended service.

Again, my 2 cents.
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 08:13:59 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351W-427..Don't Mean No Harm

> > You would have been alot more help to explain some of my questions instead
> > of try to kill my idea.

James,

I don't want to kill your idea, that's not my motivation at all.

I'd like to give you some advice, and as I've said before, if you
disagree don't take it.

Go down to the local drag-strip or circle-track (that's where I cut my
teeth) and find someone of the make you prefer who runs good, help out a
little. When an engine is going together ask if you can be there and
learn what he's running, learn how to put it together. You wont be
percieved as a threat as long as you don't share your info with anyone.
You'll find that there's alot of free power to be had just from good
assembly and matching the right parts. What I've found from Saturday
Night Shoot-Outs is that some guys don't need alot of money to run just
as well as anyone else, and they don't try the trick of the week
everytime someone tells them to. Start small, build a stocker and tweak
it until you can't get it do anymore. Go out and embarrass the trick of
the week boys, then the big guys will let you in. That's when you
learn. I got to hang around Larry Phillip's shop in Springfield, MO a
little back when. I learned more about making silk purses out of sows
ears better than anywhere else. Mark Martin worked there (little
bastard got the job I wanted too..:-)) greasy as anyone else. He
learned what a stock-car is made of. So did I, and I was just a
hanger-on. I was taught how to build engines by a gentlemen named Gary
Lee who built alot of dominant engines in the midwest short track scene
in the '70's. They were Chevys, but he helped me learn things that are
priceless on any engine. I built a 455 Olds for a guy under his
tuteledge that could roast a set of L-50's down to the rims.

You don't have to spend alot of money to make real power, you put
together a good combination and get all you can out of it. You tailor
it to your usage. That's important.

And most of all, please don't be afraid to ask questions. I am not here
to make you feel out of place, and I want to help you if I can. Please
take my comments that way.
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:20:30 -0500
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351m400 cant get enough of that .....

MARK DAVIES wrote:
>
> on the subject of the 351m400 Dave, I want to make my 351m a 400
> since it isnt after thinking all this time it was I picked up a
> ratched 400 block today the crank is good so what do i need to
> rebuild my motor and do the changeover crank, can i use the used 400
> piston and buy new rings or should i look for new 400 pistons or oversized
> and give my block a fresh bore, what about bearings (crank) do i
> order them for a 351 or a 400 or are they the same?.. what kinda cam
> should i use for my new setup im going to get the new eldebrock
> intake instead of that sp-2p whatever the hell # it is and also
> bearing caps should i use mine from my block or the ones from the 400
> block with the 400 crank i think the heads in 77 where the same with
> spring press intake/exhaust for the 351m and the 400 so i should be
> ok there any and as much help is very much appreciated...
>

Our M-block god (heehee) can answer most of your questions better than
I, but I just wanted to throw in a note about valve springs. 78,
351M/400 heads were a change over year. The valve spring
keepers/retainers were different on the intake and exh. It annoyed the
crap out of me, because most places sell them in sets, and I would have
had to order both sets to get the 16 I needed. The only way to get only
what I needed would have been custom order, which would have taken 4
weeks or more. I did not have that kind of time, so I ditched the cam
idea. I think Dave said anything over .494 lift would need new valve
springs.

OX
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:02:15 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Bargain balance / engine paint color

>I have $175 in my internal balance job from my builder on my bone stock 360.
>As of yesterday, I decided to spring for the forged (instead of cast as
>origianlly planned)
>.030 over Silv O lite pistons. I pick my engine up Monday the 15th of March!!
>It will be ready as planned.
>
Hope things work out like that for you Stu. I've been tinkerin with mine a
bit now that I've gotten it back ... mostly painting it, but now we've got
close to 6" of snow, so I'm just hopin to get from a to b ... fortunately
the old 360 is still runnin :)

>BTW- For all who want to know, I talked to a guy last night fom Michigan
>who works as a parts
>man somewhere at Ford in the Big House, he told me all FE engines from 66
>thru 72 had the dark Corporate blue engine paint. So, Dark Ford Blue it is.
>
Doh! Apparently I'm painting the wrong color then ... oh well as long as
it looks good that's all I care about, since mine'll never be close to
stock ... (lets see VIN on cab says 4x2, but its on 74 4x4 runnign gear ...
so it would be ... :)


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:05:30 -0600
From: sjacobi fd9ns01.okladot.state.ok.us
Subject: FTE 61-79 - seat belts

- ---------------------- Forwarded by Steve Jacobi/ODOT on 03-08-99 08:57 AM
- ---------------------------
Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy, wrote:


I also have been looking for a three point seat belt system for my
63. I am not willing to spend the 90 buck that Juliano's wants for their
set. So that leaves two options look for some at my local bone yard or
find a cheaper new set. This leads to my questions, I found a three point
system advertised by G.E.M. Street Rod Products out of Covina, CA. They
state that their three point systems are as low as $56.95.
Has anyone ever delt with this company? Any information that you
have one them would be appreciated.



I did fork over the $90 at Julianos and I can say I'm totally satisfied,

however, a coworker bought, from GEM the same belts for his Mop r for

about $70. The nice thing about the Julianos belts are that they come

with a plate which bears on a large area of sheet metal to avoid being

pulled out in the event of a collision. This is a moot point if you use

the original mounting holes. In my case I have the dual gas tanks with

the switching valve in the same area as where the belts mounted which

necessitated movement of this mounting position.



Steve


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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:24:27 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Electrical shocks at truck body

Thanks for your message at 03:38 AM 3/7/97 -0700, James Draughn. Your
message was:
>Do you have any aftermarket stereo system installed? I had a Buck once (my
>first car)
...and I bet you paid deer-ly for it...

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:50:09 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - bug guts, was glass glue

>>too bad we can't collect bug guts and use that as glue, i had to clean them
off my windshield last night, man that is some tuff stuff.

Jeff,

The best thing for getting off bug guts is one of those dish sponges that
has the nylon mesh on one side. Dip it in plain water, no soap. The nylon
side will scrub your glass clean without fear of scratching. Rinse often.
It also works on plastic grilles, painted surfaces, you name it. After
scrubbing the bugs, wipe the surface down with a chamois soaked in clean
water, then wrung out.

BTW, an old trick was to clean your windshield with Coca Cola. In those
days gas stations sold gas. Nowadays with most fuel stops also being
minimarts, I'd opt for a bottle of Windex.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:10:01 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 BiG ProBlem - ReBuild TimE!!!

>>5. Timing chain - i just bought a timing chain when i re-did the bearing
and such, that friend (again) tells me i should get a double-roller chain,
just sounds like more cash to me.

cannandale,
What kind of timing chain/gears did you use? If you used the plastic gears
and the slotted chain, junk them and get the double row roller chain. They
are not that expensive. The plastic ones are designed to be more quiet.
With age I have seen the plastic gears literally stripped off. It sounds
like you want to do a good rebuild. Don't scrimp on the timing set. The
cost is miniscule compared to the rest of the project.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:03:15 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - buried treasure

>>This is my
finish-moving/yard-work/go-to-home-depot truck. but I AM going to make it as
perfect as I can, and still work it.

Congrats on the find. Your attitude about fixing your truck is very similar
to mine. I get more rubber necking at Lowe's than any where else.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:38:44 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE was 79 upgrades - Then 302/FE valve covers Now meaning of abb reviations

Lance said:
Just a couple of questions. Maybe Im stupid, or maybe they need to have a
list of abbreviated terms around here somewhere. But what does URL and FE
mean? I keep seeing these & a few others, but never heard them anywhere
else.
Thanks for the expl., Lance

My reply.
FE is an engine family. Started in the mid '50s with the Edsel. Many
belive it to mean Ford Edsel, others Ford Engine, others say it doesn't mean
anything. What it does refer to is a family of engines that spanned 2
decades of production and several displacements. Displacements included
352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427 and 428. It has been in Edsels, Thunderbirds,
Mustangs, several Mercurys and in light trucks (this list is not complete).
Production in cars ended in the early '70s due to emissions and in light
trucks in '76. There is a cousin to the FE called the FT which saw duty in
medium duty trucks til around '78. For more information refer to the book
"How to rebuild your Ford Big Block" (or something close) by Steve Christ.

Tom H.
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 07:38:47 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE:Lots of questions on Winsor, kinda long

James,
Rather than trying to snip your original post I'll paraphrase the original.
1. What are headers? Yes they are exhaust manifolds. Made of tubular steel
they usually have individual pipes from the exhaust port in the head down to
where they join which is called the collector. Designs include 4 into 1 --
Four tubes reduced to one at the collector. and Tri-Y which is a 4 to 2 and
then 2 to 1. The 4 to 2 requires 2 Y shaped colllectors and the 2 to 1
requires 1 more Y shaped collector for a total of 3.

2. What is deck height? The distance from the top of the cylinder (cylinder
head mating surface or "deck") to the center of the main journal.

3. What is the deck height on a '79 351W in a truck/van? Beats me. Anyone
else know?

4. What are the differences from early model to late model? For one thing
early on the compression ratio was probably higher and the camshafts were
probably better from a performance standpoint. The motor was introduced in
the early '70s. As that decade went on compression ratios were reduced to
meet emissions requirements. Sometime in the '80s they were given a roller
camshaft mainly to reduce frictional losses inside the motor. There are
probably many other changes that I didn't cover here.

5. Why the reduction in HP from early to later? Mainly to meet emissions
requirements. High compression ratios can produce higher level of oxides of
nitrogen NOx. In order to curb this car companies cut the compression
ratios. Now they are learning about quick burn cylinder head technology
that allows higher compression ratios and still controlls the levels of NOx.
The other thing that happened in the early '70s was they changed the rating
system from a gross HP reading which is the engine output without the drag
of accessories to net readings that include the drag of accessories (water
pump, smog pump, power steering pump etc.)

6. What is an SVO type of Block? SVO is the Ford Motor Company's after
market division. Stands for Special Vehicle Operations. Listed in the Ford
Motorsports catalog available at the dealership. I'm not sure if and how a
351SVO block is different from a production block.

7. As to your bench racing ideas. Some of them are good. What you need to
do is analyze the intended application of the engine you want to build.
What do you need the engine to do. A daily driver has many different needs
from a racer. The biggest difference is a daily driver has to make usable
power over a wide RPM band and do it reliably for over 100,000 miles. A
racing motor usually operates over a very narrow RPM band so it can be tuned
for max output at that RPM. It also has to to it for a much shorter
distance (1/4 mile or maybe 500 miles). Some of the things you should
consider:
1. Cost to build. You can have all the power you want if you can afford to
build it.
2. Cost to run. Building the beast is only part of the story. If you can't
afford to feed it you won't be driving it much.
3. Local regulations. Easy to ignore until too late. What are your local
smog requirements?
4. Intended use. Trucks like lots of torque at a low RPM. Cars tend to be
lighter and can get away with power bands in the higher RPMs.


8. Would 13.8:1 comp run on premium pump gas? No. Race gas or octane boost
- -- Maybe but that will affect your cost to operate.

Many times a high winding motor isn't really that fun to drive on the
street. High HP and Torque numbers at high RPM levels are usually a trade
off at lower RPMs which is where you will be starting out at every stop sign
and traffic light. Higher numerical rear ends and looser torque converters
can help get the car started but do you want to rev the motor to 4 to 6 K
every time you have to start. It could attract some unwanted attention from
the local law enforcement.

Do some more research and hook up with a reputable machine shop that can
help you attain your goals. Some sources include this list, the high
performance list, a performance auto mag (take what they print with a grain
of salt, there is a reason they have advertisers) and books on the subject
available from auto parts stores or the library

Good luck with your project and let us know how it goes.

Tom H

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:01:05 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - RE:Lots of questions on Winsor, kinda long

> 3. What is the deck height on a '79 351W in a truck/van? Beats me.
> Anyone
> else know?

From.n 1971 to 1987, deck height was spec'd at 9.503 inches


> 6. What is an SVO type of Block? SVO is the Ford Motor Company's after
> market division. Stands for Special Vehicle Operations. Listed in the
> Ford
> Motorsports catalog available at the dealership. I'm not sure if and how
> a
> 351SVO block is different from a production block.
4 bolt main, smaller 351c journals (2.75"). Block is available in
two deck heights: 9.5" and 9.2" for use with 351c intakes



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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:10:26 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 BiG ProBlem - ReBuild TimE!!!

> I do want performance at driving speeds, but I do want to keep as much
> low-end power as I can, I use it alot too, this is a work truck too.. So
> do you think that running a more radical cam than an RV cam will not
> sacriface too much low end. To tell the truth, I have as much low-end as
> I
> would ever need right now, I have enough torque to do anything I want and
> everything I do. So I could move a little up to gain driving speed power,
> but I still that good-ole low end...


For 4:10 gears, a 268 grind cam is a good match. I had this cam in
my original 78 4X4 and it worked good for towing. Icurrently run the D3VE
heads and they work fine. You can fine tune the compression through
selection of pistons with or without dishes in the top. I ran the D0VE
heads in my previous motor and had problems with pinging and wouldn't
recommend them. The 460 has gobs of torque with the D3VE heads so you don't
need high compression to get the motor to perform well.


Thanks
John MacNamara

78 F250 Supercab 4X4 460
74 Stroppe
67GT500
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:11:55 -0800
From: "Brzezinski, Jeff"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - '64 ignition switch

> I hope someone can help. Right now I start my truck by pulling out a
switch and >pushing a rubber start button. Effective but it bugs me.
> I have a new switch and cylinder. What I was wondering is if there is a
one piece >connector that plugs into the back of it? Or, does each wire have
a female spade >connector on it?

I'll check at lunchtime what's on the back of my '63 ignition switch, it
looks original. I think the uni-plugs came later, but I'll check.

Jeff
1963 F-250 Utility
Riverside, CA
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 10:55:54 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - bug guts, was glass glue

>BTW, an old trick was to clean your windshield with Coca Cola. In those
>days gas stations sold gas. Nowadays with most fuel stops also being
>minimarts, I'd opt for a bottle of Windex.
>
I've heard that Windex can cause some pretty nasty smears and such if used
on the outside of the window and it starts raining ... maybe I was
misinformed...

As for the bug guts ... how's the song go ? Oh yeah ... I'd like to have a
problem like that...I'm fighting 6" of snow and frozen windshield wipers
right now ... it looks like this town should be somewhere in CO, not in IA!


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:04:12 -0700
From: white micron.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - seat belts

Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy

I know you've already stated that your looking for something less
expensive.... but I too ordered a set of 3-point belts as well as a center
lap belt from Juliano's and was extremely pleased with them. The quality
was top notch.

I ordered an extra set of their mounting plates thinking I was going to need
them for the center lap belt. I did not realize that I was going to be able
to use the existing tapins that were already built into the cab. I did,
however use one on each side of the cab to mount the top anchor points as
well as one in each bottom corner base mount (these 4 come with the stnd.
lapbelt kits).

They are very stout... and I have an extra set of 2 if anyone wants to
contact me about purchasing these at a price to include shipping costs plus
a small fraction of original cost (maybe enough to grab a 6-pack on the way
back from the post office ;-).

... Jim White
65 F100 300ci I6
white micron.net


>
>---------------------- Forwarded by Steve Jacobi/ODOT on 03-08-99 08:57 AM
>---------------------------
>Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy, wrote:
>
>
> I also have been looking for a three point seat belt system for my
>63. I am not willing to spend the 90 buck that Juliano's wants for their
>set. So that leaves two options look for some at my local bone yard or
>find a cheaper new set. This leads to my questions, I found a three point
>system advertised by G.E.M. Street Rod Products out of Covina, CA. They
>state that their three point systems are as low as $56.95.
> Has anyone ever delt with this company? Any information that you
>have one them would be appreciated.
>
>

>I did fork over the $90 at Julianos and I can say I'm totally satisfied,
>however, a coworker bought, from GEM the same belts for his Mop r for
>about $70. The nice thing about the Julianos belts are that they come
>with a plate which bears on a large area of sheet metal to avoid being
>pulled out in the event of a collision. This is a moot point if you use
>the original mounting holes. In my case I have the dual gas tanks with
>the switching valve in the same area as where the belts mounted which
>necessitated movement of this mounting position.
>

>
>Steve
>


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:08:58 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351m400 cant get enough of that .....

>From: "MARK DAVIES"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351m400 cant get enough of that .....
>
>I want to make my 351m a 400 since it isnt after
>thinking all this time it was I picked up a ratched
>400 block today the crank is good so what do i
>need to rebuild my motor and do the
>changeover

Yo Mark:

I'm not sure what you mean about the 400 block you picked up.

All you need to change in a 351M to make it a 400 is the 400 crankshaft and some
compatible pistons.

> crank, can i use the used 400 piston and
>buy new rings or should i look for new
>400 pistons or oversized and give my
>block a fresh bore,

I would have the block reconditioned by a reputable machine shop, including
boring the cylinders, if necessary. If the block is overbored to clean up the
cylinders, you'll have to get new pistons no matter what. Unless you're on a
painfully tight budget, I strongly recommend getting some 351C pistons to
increase the compression ratio. Increasing the compression is one of the most
important things you can do to get more power out of your M-block.

>what about bearings (crank) do i order
>them for a 351 or a 400 or are they the
>same?

They are the same for both 351M and 400.

>.. what kinda cam should i use for my new
>setup im going to get the new eldebrock
>intake instead of that sp-2p whatever the
>

I gave my general recommendations for cams in a previous post. There are
several cams from various manufacturers that should provide decent power from an
M-block.

>bearing caps should i use mine from my block
>or the ones from the 400 block with the 400 crank

Always keep bearing caps w/ the block they came in. When an engine block is
manufactured, the bearing caps are "align honed" to make sure the bearings line
up correctly. If you swap the bearing caps, you'll have to get the block align
honed again to correct the cap alignment. Normally, your block shouldn't need
align honing unless it's been severely abused.

> i think the heads in 77 where the same with
>spring press intake/exhaust for the 351m
>and the 400 so i should be ok there

As Ox mentioned in his post, if you get a cam w/ over 0.490" gross lift (at the
valve), you'll need aftermarket springs. If you're not going to have heads
re-done and replace all the valves, you probably should look for a cam that
produces 0.490" or less gross lift (not my recommendation for serious power).
If you re-do the heads and get a proper 3-angle valve job, new valve guides, and
new valves, you can get 351C 2V valves, which have the same head size as stock
M-block valves and have the same valve retainer design on both intake and
exhaust valves.

I want to clarify something about building a killer 400. Don't make the mistake
of trying to build serious performance w/ external bolt-ons. You have to start
w/ the guts to do it right. On a tight budget, IMHO you're better off spending
the money to get 351C pistons and a good cam, along w/ the associated costs of
those components (like valve springs, bushing the rods, etc.). Even if you have
to keep your existing manifold and carb and stock cast iron exhaust manifolds, a
higher compression and a good cam will go a long way toward better performance.
Then later on, when you've saved up more money, buy a good intake manifold and
carb, add headers, etc. It's a lot easier to change the intake manifold than it
is to change the pistons and camshaft.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:46:27 -0800
From: sparky mail.island.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition System "Possessed"

>> I think I need an exorcist to fix this problem :) Yesterday I came home
>>>from work shutoff my truck, took out the key and then noticed the truck was
>>still idling. The only way I could shut it off was to stall it in gear.
>>>Sparky
>>73F250 4X4
>>390FE 2V
>>"presently possessed by ignition demon"

>You might want to try and replace the ignition module mounted on the
>sidewall... Don't know if that would help, but sounds like the only thing
>left in the system, unless you've got a short somewhere.... Good luck!

>>Had my 73 do that a couple of years back. My problem was that the alternator
>wire that run in to the cab had shorted out to the coil feed wire under the
>dash. Had a pretty good visual of it considering that it grounded out
before I
>fixed it. Had a lot of fun putting in a new harness. Hope maybe this will
>help!

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions as to what could be wrong.
The wiring under the hood had severe corrosion and overheating about 6
inches from the entrance to the cab on the passenger side of the firewall.
The Alternator feed wire had overheated and "welded" several wires
together, one of which was the "start" wire from the start relay to the
coil. Also behind the dash the ignition resistor wire had overheated and
also had shorted to the "start" wire from the start relay to the coil.
So whenever the alternator was online there was voltage passed to the
"start" wire then transferred again to the "run" wire, so when the key was
turned off it didnt matter as it was bypassed by the shorted wires.
I am now in the process of replacing the burnt wires. The one mod I have
added is that of replacing the several feet of resistance wire,located
behind the dash, with a
ballast resistor located under the hood. That way there is no future chance
of the resistor wire overheating inside a wire bundle again.
Just a note of interest though, DO NOT wrap your engine wire harnesses in
electric tape. Although it looks good, it allows water and bad stuff to get
trapped in the wire harness leading to the afore mentioned problems. IMHO
the preferred method (to retain neatness) is to tie the bundles every 6-8
inches with a very small wrap of tape, or better yet a plastic tiewrap,
then cover the bundles with the split plastic wire shields. This allows
water to drain off the bundles but still gives a neat appearance and
resistance to abrasion, heat, etc.
Funny thing is the wiring update on my truck was a planned summer project,
as I have no garage :(
The previous owner must have had shares in an Electric Tape factory,
judging by the amount used on my truck. After I remove all of it I will
probably get better milage and more torque :):):)

Thanks
Sparky
73F250 4x4
390FE 2V



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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:38:02 -0800 (PST)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE Shorty Headers - FPA

Just got off the phone with Stan at FPA. From the sound of things
he just replied to a whole bunch of e-mails so you guys might have
heard from him too.

He has not heard from either of two people who are trying the
headers. One of them said if they didn't fit he was going to
install them on his Galaxie. The other is local to the area
where FPA is and has some kind of illness. Not sure which one
of these is the one with the '67.

He did his best to describe them to me, but the most I got was
the drivers side collector hugs the bottom rear of the block so
it will probably clear the front driveshaft. The passenger side
is designed to be away from the starter so you can get it out.

He is going to send me some photos by snail mail which have
dimensions on them in the areas that he thinks are critical in a
truck application. When I get them I'll scan them and put them
up on my web page.

He did say they were designed to clear the clutch linkage on a
Galaxie.

Mark in Southwest Washington (keeping his fingers crossed)
www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:04:27 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Big Road Trip in the 67'

OK, I've got a road trip planned, leaving Tampa FL on about Mar 25, and
driving back to Denver, via Omaha (didn't Johnny Cash sing about this?). I'm
stopping in Omaha to pick up that 428 from that wildman Nebraska Ross, who
undoubtedly will try and make me jealous of his 427.

Anyway, the tentative route is:

Route 19 Tampa to I-10 West.
I-10 West to 231 North to Birmingham
78 West Birmingham to Memphis
63 North Memphis to Springfield, MO.
I-44 West to 71 North to K.C.
I-29 North K.C. to Omaha
I-80 West to I-76 to Denver.

I hoping there's one or two people on the list along the way....

The old offer stands, I'll buy the breakfast, lunch, or dinner!

Azie, where the heck is Ardmore?

Hey Bud, with this be a good time to meet up for those spokers?

CJ (Colorado Jeff)
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:33:44 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big Road Trip in the 67'

In a message dated 3/8/99 1:16:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, BDIJXS aol.com
writes:

>

I know Charlie Daniel's went to LA via Omaha in "The Uneasy Rider"

Darrell
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:39:04 EST
From: Doom460 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - parts

I am new to the list and I have a question. Does anyone know of any good
websites that offers replacement parts for 73-79 pickups? Any info would be
appreciated.
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:37:16 -0800
From: "Brzezinski, Jeff"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - '64 ignition switch - Part.2

>I hope someone can help. Right now I start my truck by pulling out a switch
and pushing >a rubber start button. Effective but it bugs me.
> I have a new switch and cylinder. What I was wondering is if there is a
one piece >connector that plugs into the back of it? Or, does each wire have
a female spade >connector on it?
> My shop manual doesn't really show or say if there is or isn't.
> Any help is always greatly appreciated,
>Ted Wnorowski


I checked the back of my '63 ignition switch, mostly by braille. It has a
long machine screw, pointing straight back, where about eight different
wires with loop terminals are attached with a nut and star-washer. There are
a few other wires that attach to the switch at various points with spade
terminals. All the terminal ends are molded on, so I believe the setup is
stock.

Your truck is a '64, but I hope this helps.

Jeff
1963 F-250 Utility
Riverside, CA
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:12:55 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - parts

Try this one: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.73-79 fordtrucks. com/

Thanks
John MacNamara

805 577 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
805 526 3464 hm
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Doom460 aol.com [SMTP:Doom460 aol.com]
> Sent:Monday, March 08, 1999 2:39 PM
> To:61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 61-79 - parts
>
> I am new to the list and I have a question. Does anyone know of any good
> websites that offers replacement parts for 73-79 pickups? Any info would
> be
> appreciated.
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:25:34 EST
From: Boon40 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 rebuild for mileage?

Hello Friends,
I've got my 460 lined out and running good. The swap was easy, except for
problems with L&L headers(SUCK). Anyway, i have another 460 block and i want
to rebuild it for gas mileage. Quit laughing, i think it can be done. My truck
is a 78 F-150 4x4. I am running 3.50 rear end and c-6 tran with 31-10.50
tires. I very seldom pull anything and i live in Southeast Texas, fairly flat.
If anyone has a good recipe for this engine , let me know. I know i will
have to spend some money on it. I'm not afraid of that. Thanks for any input.
Boon
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:41:53 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 rebuild for mileage?

Boon: I have a 460 in a truck with 3:50 gears and love the cam I got.
Check it out at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cranecams.com/cgi-bin/spec.cgi?database=SPECCARD.tab&form=CardSam
p.htm&id=353901

It pulls from off idle to well past 75 with nooooooo problem.

Thanks
John MacNamara

805 577 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
805 526 3464 hm
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Boon40 aol.com [SMTP:Boon40 aol.com]
> Sent:Monday, March 08, 1999 3:26 PM
> To:61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 61-79 - 460 rebuild for mileage?
>
> Hello Friends,
> I've got my 460 lined out and running good. The swap was easy, except
> for
> problems with L&L headers(SUCK). Anyway, i have another 460 block and i
> want
> to rebuild it for gas mileage. Quit laughing, i think it can be done. My
> truck
> is a 78 F-150 4x4. I am running 3.50 rear end and c-6 tran with 31-10.50
> tires. I very seldom pull anything and i live in Southeast Texas, fairly
> flat.
> If anyone has a good recipe for this engine , let me know. I know i
> will
> have to spend some money on it. I'm not afraid of that. Thanks for any
> input.
> Boon
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:44:02 EST
From: Doom460 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - parts

Does anyone know of any other? I found that one while just looking for stuff
on some search engine.
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:24:02 -0500
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition System "Possessed"

>> I think I need an exorcist to fix this problem :) Yesterday I came home
>>>from work shutoff my truck, took out the key and then noticed the truck was
>>still idling. The only way I could shut it off was to stall it in gear.
>>>Sparky

Mine does this, but it is the ign switch. Mine is so worn, the key
will fall out on the floor while driving around. It is particulary
annoying while I'm 4 wheelin. I stop for lunch and realize I can't find
my keys to shut off the truck. They usually turn up on the floor
somewhere :-)

OX
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:04:52 -0500
From: cannandale netpointe.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 BiG ProBlem - ReBuild TimE!!!

I dont remember the brand, but it wasnt plastic. Im going to go ahead and
put a double-roller on there since I will have it torn apart.

I think im going take pix of this prject and put em on my website.. haha,
if i ever get either one done.. :)

cannandale
'78 f250 4x4, 460

At 10:42 AM 3/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>>5. Timing chain - i just bought a timing chain when i re-did the bearing
>and such, that friend (again) tells me i should get a double-roller chain,
>just sounds like more cash to me.
>
>cannandale,
> What kind of timing chain/gears did you use? If you used the plastic gears
>and the slotted chain, junk them and get the double row roller chain. They
>are not that expensive. The plastic ones are designed to be more quiet.
>With age I have seen the plastic gears literally stripped off. It sounds
>like you want to do a good rebuild. Don't scrimp on the timing set. The
>cost is miniscule compared to the rest of the project.
>
>
>-John
>
>jlagrone ford-trucks.com
>1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
>http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
>Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:23:43 -0500
From: billybobdesade mindspring.com (william coulter)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: header for a 300

anybody know if they make a header for a 300? have a friend that has
exhaust manifold cracking where the carb sits. the spring that opens the
flap that directs the heat is gone and it also leaks. says it's a real pain
to get warmed up even with the manual choke. he found a manifold but they
want 350.00 for it. just thought i would ask although i've never seen one.
but then there's a lot of things i've never seen. and a couple i should'nt
have married. tx bb


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 20:17:23 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - parts

At 05:39 PM 3/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I am new to the list and I have a question. Does anyone know of any good
>websites that offers replacement parts for 73-79 pickups? Any info would be
>appreciated.

Unfortunately, most of the companies stop at 72. However,
Auto Krafters has parts.

www.auto krafters. com
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:58:51 -0700
From: johnmicki oldwest.net (John Rollf)
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - seat belts (Contact Info)

I'm looking for 3 point belts for my 1972 F-250. Can you tell me the
address and/or phone numbers for "Juliano's" and "G.E.M"?

Thanks,
John Rollf
1972 F-250 Custom, FE 360, 2-wd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of
> sjacobi fd9ns01.okladot.state.ok.us
> Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 8:06 AM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - seat belts
>
>
>
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Steve Jacobi/ODOT on 03-08-99 08:57 AM
> ---------------------------
> Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy, wrote:
>
>
> I also have been looking for a three point seat belt system for my
> 63. I am not willing to spend the 90 buck that Juliano's wants for their
> set. So that leaves two options look for some at my local bone yard or
> find a cheaper new set. This leads to my questions, I found a three point
> system advertised by G.E.M. Street Rod Products out of Covina, CA. They
> state that their three point systems are as low as $56.95.
> Has anyone ever delt with this company? Any information that you
> have one them would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> I did fork over the $90 at Julianos and I can say I'm totally satisfied,
>
> however, a coworker bought, from GEM the same belts for his Mop r for
>
> about $70. The nice thing about the Julianos belts are that they come
>
> with a plate which bears on a large area of sheet metal to avoid being
>
> pulled out in the event of a collision. This is a moot point if you use
>
> the original mounting holes. In my case I have the dual gas tanks with
>
> the switching valve in the same area as where the belts mounted which
>
> necessitated movement of this mounting position.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:29:48 EST
From: L7514 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: header for a 300

I feel for ya bud, a good wife is about as hard to find as good old truck
parts.
Good luck, Lance
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 21:27:56 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: header for a 300

I'm often told I like my women like I like my trucks " old and abused "!!!
hehehhehehe


At 09:29 PM 3/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I feel for ya bud, a good wife is about as hard to find as good old truck
....


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