61-79-list-digest Saturday, March 6 1999 Volume 03 : Number 078



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Going to the "Recycling yards" tomorrow
FTE 61-79 - FE balance
FTE 61-79 - Shocking Experience
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE balance
FTE 61-79 - Lincoln Query
FTE 61-79 - Stancians
Re: FTE 61-79 - 429 Heads
FTE 61-79 - Bargain balance
FTE 61-79 - FE Cams
FTE 61-79 - Electrical Setup For Lights
Re: FTE 61-79 - glass glue?
FTE 61-79 - M-Block S-P-2P
FTE 61-79 - 390 Power combo was 410 kinda long
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 Power combo was 410 kinda long
FTE 61-79 - Lots of questions on Winsor, kinda long
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE was 79 upgrades - now 302/FE valve covers
FTE 61-79 - url
Re: FTE 61-79 - url

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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:34:23 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Going to the "Recycling yards" tomorrow

>
>Yes (eternally optimistic) I need a tailgate in perfect shape for A Unibody!
>

I'll have a look at my secret fave wrecking yard out in Grays Harbor, I'll
be out there tomorrow to check on our "beach house". He has 3 Uni's
sitting around his place........

Steve & the Rockette

P.S.: SWMBO likes to go junk yarding, but not yard saling. Weird huh??

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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 19:50:00 -0800
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE balance

"The guy at
the machine shop said that the 410 and 428 were externally balanced
(which I
knew), but recommended that we make it internally balanced (which I did
not
know) and then I could use a standard 390 flexplate and use my old 360
balancer and pulleys (which are in excellent shape) with out worrying
about
any external counter weights. To have this done will cost me an extra
$50.
Sounds like a good thing to me, unless some one can tell me why it
wouldn't
be a good idea to do this. All other FE's are internally balanced as
far as
I know."

My 428 was internaly balanced at the machine shop and 50,000 miles
later it still seems fine to me.I had to go that route because I my
engine was missing the crank snout and some other parts when I got it.
I have a RV cam in mine and am happy with it but being on this list has
convinced me to try a little more cam somewhere down the road.
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:59:23 -0800
From: Al Evitts
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Shocking Experience

Guys: Getting shocked while getting out of cars and trucks used to be a
common experience. We used to hang a ground strap down in the middle of
the car to just touch to ground and it cured it. This was so prevelant
the parts stores sold ready made straps..FWIW

Al
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:14:56 EST
From: My427Stang aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE balance

50 dollars to internally balance is a good deal, go for it. An externally
balanced one is just as good, but the ease of changing flywheels later is
worth the 50. Keep in mind an internally balanced motor is still balanced
using the flywheel / balancer combo, and unless they balance the flywheel to a
true zero balance first, its not entirely balanced only in the crank. That
sounds confusing, and truthfully its a little anal, but on my 427, we zero
balanced the clutch, disc and flywheel assembly seperately, as well as the
balancer, then made sure the internal balance was spot on afterwards. This
way, when I change out a flywheel or clutch, I just take the flywheel/clutch
assembly in to be made to a true zero again and I know its right.

If you dont zero balance the flywheel first, manufacturing tolerances will
never get you to the "exact" balance you had with the combination you
initially balanced it with.

Last bit, DOES THIS LITTLE BIT REALLY MATTER? not on a 410 truck
motor, but on a 7000+ rpm 427 maybe. Just wanted to point out that the
internal balance still doesnt mean it would be absolutely, race spec exact if
you changed to another identical stock flywheel. I'd still do it, and if your
guy will zero balance the clutch assembly seperately, you've got the best deal
going.

Make sure you give him, balancer, sleeve, crank, flywheel, clutch cover (some
guys even want the disc, my guy zero balanced that seperate to the entire
unit) as well as clutch cover bolts. That way itwill be spot on.

Well, long winded, but there you are -
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:18:49 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Lincoln Query

> BTW- What engine series did the Lincoln division use in the 1960's?????
> Did they use FE's or did they have their own engine to play with?


They used the MEL (Mercury Edsel Lincoln) series (430-462) until
sometime around '66-'68 then they used the 385 series.
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:30:53 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Stancians

> Could somebody confirm something for me real quick?
>
> 73-79 models (possibly including 67 and up)
>
> Are the 300 I-6 motor stancions the same as those used by the 360 FE's in 4
> wheel drive trucks? The naked eye tells me no. (the other eye says
> maybe) Any difference between the 4x4 models' between 1/2 and 3/4 ton?


It's been a long time but when I switched my '67 from a 240 to a 390 all
I think I did was turn them around backwards and I seem to remember
having to switch sides. It's been too long to remember for certain, but
they will work I do know that, at least on the '67-'72's.
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:39:14 EST
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 429 Heads

the porting realy helps in the mid to upper rpm range. i'll tell this story to
those that maybe interested.
i worked in an automotive machine shop, i handled all the head work, and
porting on performance stuff. me and the boss were ford nuts.
we built a 351 cleveland for a serious mud racer, he ran the engine for
about a year and decided he wanted a big block. there is a guy here in town
that has a super modified pulling truck with a 640 ci big block in it, and he
has amachine shop, i have seen other bad experiences come out of this guys
shop. the mudracer figured if the truck puller could build a 640 ci engine, he
would have a 514 built by this guy, so he did. he had aluminum rods,venolia
pistons, roller cam, this was a high dollar engine.
when he ran it at the mudtrack, his clock times were the same as with the
351 c.
man was he sick, he had spent about 5000.00 on this engine. He had spent about
2000.00 on the cleveland. he finaly brought it too us to help him out. the
first thing my boss did was remove one of the headers, sure enough the heads
had not been ported. the heads were D2OE police interceptors, i had a set
stuck back, so we took my set and ported the exhaust ports, radiused the
intake valve pockets and did a three angle valve job, shaved them and
installed the same ss valves as the heads on the truck. in other words the
only thing we did was porting, everything else was the same.
the next race, the truck was over 1 second faster.
this engine was being used in the 4500-8000 rpm range, it just couldn't
breathe at those high rpms,
so porting realy helps if you are going to run up past 4500 rpms.
i saw the heads on the 640 ci in the pull truck, (a friend of mine was
building the intake for it) they had been ported, but not very well, there was
still alot of contouring that could've been done.


thanks, jeff grant
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:40:44 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Bargain balance

> knew), but recommended that we make it internally balanced (which I did not
> know) and then I could use a standard 390 flexplate and use my old 360
> balancer and pulleys (which are in excellent shape) with out worrying about
> any external counter weights. To have this done will cost me an extra $50.
> Sounds like a good thing to me, unless some one can tell me why it wouldn't
> be a good idea to do this. All other FE's are internally balanced as far as
> I know.


He's going to balance your externally balanced crank for $50? Where is
this guy? You need to be his friend for sure!
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 23:00:54 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE Cams

> I have not selected a cam yet and am not sure which one I want. I want good
> low end torque with the ability to pass people as needed on two lane roads.
> If you guys have any info I'd like to hear it. I keep hearing about a good
> RV grind. What is an RV grind as far a lift, duration and overlap go. I
> have an '63 galaxie 4V intake that will be going on this motor topped by a
> 750cfm Edelbroke and will be using 390GT heads.


You've got a lot of compression there if you're running flat tops coming
up to 0 deck. Do you know your compression ratio? If you don't know
but know your chamber volume, gasket thickness, clearance below 0 deck,
and piston head displacement in ccs I have built a spreadsheet in Lotus
1-2-3 R5 that can calculate it for you. If it's over 9.5 to 1, you
don't want too short of a duration cam or you'll have detonation. I
plan to use either the smallest Lunati Bracket Master or the Crane
Power-Max 272 H10 with adjustable rockers. The engine will be right
around 9.5 or 10 to 1 w flat-tops. It will bleed off a little bit of
compression, and will allow you to run marginal compression on pump
gas. If you're under 9.5 to 1 then the Crane Energizer 260 is a good
torquey cam. It will require some tuning on the timing and carb with
this much compression in either case to assure that you don't hammer it
to death. It needs very little initial timing, and good fuel delivery
under load.
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:05:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Josh Allison
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Electrical Setup For Lights

Hey folks. While I often see electrical problems (and solutions) get
posted onto our list I don't often see out of the ordinary stuff crop
up. Questions like 'I want to hook up my trailer lights and I can't
quite figure it out...' or 'where's a good spot to wire in an external
spotlight?'. Maybe I haven't been around long enough on the list
(mostly lurking for 1 1/2 years) to have seen such problems in the
past. With that said (and do to the fact that while I am excellent at
straight mechanics, I am a total bonehead at electrics) I have a
question. I want to hook up two lights that will be attached to the
inside roof of a camper shell. The problem is I don't really know what
I am doing and I don't know where to start either. How do I do this?
Maybe someone out there in Ford Truck land can help. The challenge
is to construct a system (read that as plan, build, and test a wire
loom) that will allow me to set up two lights in my camper shell. I
need to be able to go out and purchase all the same hardware at the
same type store as you. A list of the types of switches, connectors,
gauge of wire at 'x' # of feet, light assemblies, etc would be needed.
As well as where to tap into the electrical system already on the
truck that will allow me to use the lights off the battery when the
truck isn't running. What I really want is to build another wire loom
and run it underneath the truck to the underside of the back of the
cab with an end connector that will reach up between the cab and the
bed and terminate at the top of the bedrail. That way I can use the
connector to be able to take on and off the shell quickly with one
quick dis-connect. I figure that running the wiring in the shell thru
a small hole in the back would work just fine. I often take the shell
on and off for hunting, fishing, camping trips. Not to mention hauling
junk to the dump. I guess the smart thing to do would be to make a
tech article out of the whole thing and post it on the FTE website.
That way, whoever does it will get credit for his/her craftiness.
Maybe they can even scan a picture of the entire thing once it's done
and include it with a picture of the schematic and the parts list.
That is, if they choose to build one for themselves. I know that this
may be a larger project than some people would want to tackle but I'm
also thinking that this sort of thing has undoubtedly been done many,
many times before somewhere in America. Maybe there's a website where
this has already been accomplished and it's posted for all to see but
I just don't know about it? Any and all help will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks in advance for any responses to the list, the FTE
website via tech article, or to me via private email. You guys are
great to follow on the digest.
Sincerely, Josh Allison

1967 F-100 300 I-6 PS Am I asking way too much?
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:05:51 EST
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - glass glue?

too bad we can't collect bug guts and use that as glue, i had to clean them
off my windshield last night, man that is some tuff stuff.

jeff grant
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 23:10:16 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - M-Block S-P-2P

> Both Edelbrock manifolds are dual plane types, which is what I think you're
> describing. I don't recognize those numbers. The non-EGR manifold has the
> Edelbrock logo on the #5 cylinder intake runner (front left side of the engine).
> The EGR manifoold has the logo right in front of the carb flange in the center.


I'm pretty sure Ebelbroke made an S-P-2P for the M block too. It's been
a while though. They weren't much for performance, the design was made
as a high velocity economy emmissions-legal application. They usually
had shot off their rockets by 4500rpms, but did allow the use of a 4
bbl. The Performer is much better.
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 23:13:07 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 Power combo was 410 kinda long

> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:09:19 EST
> From: My427Stang aol.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 410 stuff (kinda long)
>
> I'd stay away from an "RV" grind, most will be planned for 360/390 motors and
> the added torque plus the added stroke really makes them less powerful than a
> stock grind. In my 390, with 3.73 gears and 35 inch tires, I run a Comp Cams
> 280 duration .549 lift. It runs great,

What kind of pistons are you using?
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Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:30:23 EST
From: My427Stang aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 Power combo was 410 kinda long

I am running flat tops, stock Ford, not sure on the heads, its been almost 10
years since I put that one together, its my baby, in storage right now. We
also run a 390 with a Performer intake and 9.5 TRW, in a 76 shortbed 4x4,and
in that one we run an old Fireball 292 duration. It runs great. Sort of
mismatched the intake and cam, but the truck didnt care, and I wont tell it if
you dont! We even plow snow with that one!
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:54:55 -0700
From: "James Draughn"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Lots of questions on Winsor, kinda long

Alright, I have lots of questions, but I have been learning alot.
First things first. Exactly what are headers? Are they just super exhaust
manifolds? how do they differ from each other?
Next, deck height. What is it? I have a 351W from a 79 Ford van,
anyone know what the deck height is for this engine? What where different
between the early/middle/late Winsors? The earlier 351W put out alot more HP
then the later ones, exactly what was different on them to make such a
drastic change? Also, what is a SVO type of block? I don't know if I am
making any sense but I am pretty confused.
I have been looking at the eldabrock web site looking for a good intake
for my engine, I plan on making it into the ultimate racing engine, over
time. At there site I see this for the intake I am taking a look at.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/man_ford_351w.html

>SUPER VICTOR 351-W (4500-8000 RPM)

>Designed for high rpm or large displacement competition 351 >Windsor Ford
V8s with a deck height of 9.500" which are used in >drag racing or oval
track engines operating between 4500 and 8000 >rpm. Although the Super
Victor #2924 can be used with ported >factory cast iron 351-W heads,
aftermarket aluminum heads are >recommended, such as Edelbrock Victor Heads
#7721 or Victor Jr. >Heads #7716. The highest performance will be achieved
using >Edelbrock Victor heads #7721.

I have been thinking about getting a crank for it to make it into a
427ci. I checked a web site and they had kits to make a 351w into 427 using
the crank. Now, if I where to get this intake from Eldelbrock can I tone it
down a bit and just get regular performance out of it while I get other
parts togeather? I think what I mean is with a regular cam will I still get
good performance, or will it actually get worse unless I am running a high
performance cam?
My plans are to eventually put it into maybe a old Ford Mustang, not
sure, I don't really like the look of the Mustangs, except maybe the Mach 2,
I kinda like the way they look. But untill then my engine would run in my
van. This engine would be designed for high rpm and a high torque curve ( I
think that is what would be best), but would it act like a dog in my van?
Or would it pull it like crazy? As far as my heads are right now, they are
the stock heads that where on it (one of em is the original at least, the
other came from a junk yard, one of the ones that where on it were wasted).
here are the stats on the engine that Eldabroc gave for the engine after
they had done all there stuff.

>Super Victor 351-W Ford Dyno Test Data
>Engine: Ford 351-W (SVO block) with Super Victor #2924 intake, >850 cfm
carb, Victor heads #7721 (with bowl-blend & port match), >stock rocker
ratio, Crane mechanical roller cam with .645" lift and >262 duration
(intake & exhaust) and 13.8:1 compression
>Results: 622 horsepower at 7500 rpm and 466 ft/lbs. of torque at >6500 rpm

Now that is with a 351W, if I where to get a crank and make it into 427,
would that help with torque/horsepower alot? 466lbs or torque at 7500 rpm
sounds pretty damn nice, and if it where a 427 it seems to me that it would
do over 500 lbs or torque, and somewheres around 700 HP, ALL IN A SMALL
BLOCK!!! But am I missing something here? I know I would end up spending
thousands upon thousands of dollers for this. Would 13:8 to 1 comp run on
prem pump gas? Or does it take alcohol or something? I would like a very
fast, very strong running engine that is very reliable and I could use as a
daily driver, (gas milage isint of concern). Can you guys give me some tips
on what is overkill and what I should do? I live in Utah btw. Thanks for
all the info, and don't hold back any knowledge :)
P.S. I know i have forgotten a bunch of questions, If I remember em I will
post em up, you guys are the greatest.






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Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 02:59:37 EST
From: L7514 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE was 79 upgrades - now 302/FE valve covers

Just a couple of questions. Maybe Im stupid, or maybe they need to have a
list of abbreviated terms around here somewhere. But what does URL and FE
mean? I keep seeing these & a few others, but never heard them anywhere else.
Thanks for the expl., Lance
74F100 custom 2x2 I-300
76F100 custom 2x2 302
79F100 ranger 2x2 302
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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:30:09 -0700
From: "James Draughn"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - url

I don't know what FE means but URL is the address for web pages. Like
www.infoseek.com is an URL, unless it has another meaning also.

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