61-79-list-digest Tuesday, February 23 1999 Volume 03 : Number 059



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Lincoln Woes
FTE 61-79 - Tailgate Project
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1978 Lariat
FTE 61-79 - Amber rear turn signals
FTE 61-79 - John's good mood
FTE 61-79 - FE pulley swap -> answer
FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Determining 352/360 vs 390
Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
Re: FTE 61-79 - dash--good deal?
Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
RE: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W
Re: FTE 61-79 - Amber rear turn signals
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W
FTE 61-79 - 460 pulley swap
FTE 61-79 - 84 to 78 A/C compressor swap
FTE 61-79 - 351c heads on 351w
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351c heads on 351w
FTE 61-79 - Re: Ebrake foot p...now BLOWBY
RE: FTE 61-79 - dash--good deal?
Re: FTE 61-79 -Metaphorisis of a truck
Re: FTE 61-79 -Metamorphosis of a truck
FTE 61-79 - pics.
Re: FTE 61-79 -Metamorphosis of a truck
RE: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W
Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
FTE 61-79 - Re: 351W vs. 351C
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351W vs. 351C
FTE 61-79 - Gas Tanks (again!)
FTE 61-79 - Re. Emissions and major model modifications
FTE 61-79 - Re: Finding body panels in SW Ontario
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1978 Lariat
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 9 inch rebuild procedure
FTE 61-79 - > >
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 shorty headers
FTE 61-79 - tranies
FTE 61-79 - Junkyard finds/dual tank switch
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 shorty headers
FTE 61-79 - Re: Leaf Spring Bushing Removal
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re. Emissions and major model modifications
FTE 61-79 - warm up
FTE 61-79 - RE: 78 F250 4x4, Lariat
Re: FTE 61-79 - warm up
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re. Emissions and major model modifications
FTE 61-79 - What is the best i can do with my Winsdor
Re: FTE 61-79 - 84 to 78 A/C compressor swap
FTE 61-79 - Roller cammed 69, 351W

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:58:01 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Lincoln Woes

My cousin had an 81 Mark VI that was throttle body fuel injected (TBI). I
am certain that the same system was available in 82. Be sure to ID the
system as TBI or feedback carb before you go swapping parts. A TBI unit
looks very similar to a carb. The FI would have an electric fuel pump in
the gas tank whereas the carb would probably use a mechanical fuel pump.
Look on the side of the block near the oil filter; the fuel pump located
there is mechanical. A hole or plate there means electric pump.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:52:25 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tailgate Project

Tom, thanks for the part numbers. Jamey, thanks for the list of vendors.
I'll keep both posts where I can find them (inside the truck). I can now
begin the hunt. Since these aren't critical to operation, it may take me
awhile, but I'll report back on what I find. Thanks, again.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:59:38 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1978 Lariat

The book I have only goes up to '78 and here's what it says:
"In addition to the optional protection package, this F-250 4 x 4 Styleside
Pickup featured Ranger Lariat trim. A new designation for the former XLT Luxury
Group, the latter incorporated Deluxe Tu-Tone paint, special cowl wrapover
emblems and a black tailgate appliqu. Inside were the Luxury Groupseat; sound
absorbing, button-quilted headlining; padded door trim panel inserts; map
pockets; and, carpeted cowl sides. Notice that the contour of the bumper was
revised, its first appearance change since 1959. Camper Special packages were
offered for the first time this year on the F-250 4x4 as was the optional
4,500-pound front axle. This axle was the key ingredient in the newly catalogued
Snow Plow Preparation Package." Another sentence in the text says: "The 4x4
SuperCabs, available on both the F-150 and 250 155 -inch chassis, were all-new
models while the Lariat, Ford's answer to the Chevrolet Silverado, was a new
name for the former XLT Luxury Group.
I know it's not the same year, I hope this helps.

Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
Clemstang1 aol.com wrote:

> Quick question
> I've got a 79 Lariat, finally got it from my granddad last year(one-
> owner) always wondered if the suspension package was any different from the
> other trucks? It always seemed that his truck rode smoother than mine.
>
> Jeff
> 73 F-150 (pro-street) 460
> 79 F-150 Lariat 460
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:31:25 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Amber rear turn signals

>> Call me crazy but I like the yellowed light
that you get from old bulbs, its easier on the eyes

I agree. I never noticed the difference with headlights, but I have had
many a car where I replaced the dash bulbs with amber ones instead of clear
and I once ordered a computer monitor that displayed amber instead of
green. Back in those days computers were pretty much text only. Yes,
young-uns, I'm old. I like my lasered eye, too. :-)

Speaking of eyes, you guys that are always keeping an eye out for some
item, don't do that. It is so gross. Put your eye back in your head where
it belongs. :-) :-)

I want to hear back on the success of adding the amber turn signals. Also,
someone in my neighborhood has a late model Grand Am or Grand Prix that has
some pretty neat looking lights in the rear plastic bumper in addition to
the backup lights. If they were in the front I would call them driving
lights like the ones mounted in air dams, particularly on Mustangs. These
lights might work better than some of the general purpose after market
lights.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:57:02 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - John's good mood

>>
Speaking of eyes, you guys that are always keeping an eye out for some
item, don't do that. It is so gross. Put your eye back in your head where
it belongs. :-) :-)

Someone's in a real good mood,
What did you do John, whip a few of those "other brand trucks"? I guess that
fancy lazer eye gives you an edge in seeing that green light before the
competition.


My guess is you've been running the motor with the garage door closed again.
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:00:13 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE pulley swap -> answer

Someone posted a question about swapping pulleys from a 390 to 352 (I think).

I did this myself. you don't need the harmonic balancer, the 390 water pump and
accessory pulleys should detach after you take the 3 small screws out. As
pointed out, the hole pattern on a 390 IS NOT the same on a 352. I just drilled
new holes and bolted the new accessory pulley on top of the water pump pulley.
Its lasted at least 500 miles so far with no troubles.

Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:25:16 -0500
From: James Oxley
Subject: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

OK

I didn't think it would be this hard. I am trying to find the upper/
lower steering col berings for my 78 Bronco, no tilt and man trans. I
tried Obs Ford parts, but they don't cover 78-79 Bronco's, only pickups.
I'd like to assume a 78 F150 4 X 4 has the same col as my Bronco, but
I'm not sure. Ford only has the bearings avail if I had tilt wheel.

Drew mentioned Mac's. Anyone have a number for this place or the Ford
PN's for these particular bearings?

One other question, does the lower bearing come out of the plastic,
snap in sleeve, or is it all one unit. Does the plastic sleeve come with
it when you purchase a new lower bearing?

Thanks in adavnce

OX
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:36:14 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

Hey Ox!

Just something about that little plastic snap in sleeve--

I didn't rebuild my column, but had to replace that sleeve in the end of
the column. The original one I had was rounded out and loose in the tube,
and the little plastic bearing was sloppy as heck- I went to Ford and
bought the same piece from them-- it didn't have the built in plastic
bearing, but rather a plastic bushing and also wasn't even the proper shaft
size, the only thing it did was snap into place. Wasted my $7.50 for a
part I could have had machined and put my own bearing in.. I took it back
to ford and the parts guys said the F-250 and bronc's all used the same one
as my F-150 in '78. Moral of the story-- take your old one with you, and
don't buy cheap replacement stuff, even if it is from ford! MAKE YOUR
OWN!! 8-)

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony

> One other question, does the lower bearing come out of the plastic,
>snap in sleeve, or is it all one unit. Does the plastic sleeve come with
>it when you purchase a new lower bearing?
>
> Thanks in adavnce
>
> OX
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:17:44 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Determining 352/360 vs 390

>Now, how are we going to figure those bores?
>
Hmmm...how about fitting a hose nipple to a spark plug thread, then putting
a balloon on the end of it, so that if you start with the piston at bottom
dead center, then crank it over on the compression stroke, you can get the
volume of one cylinder inthe balloon ...

hmmm...

Weird thoughts on monday morning ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:30:01 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

Good morning,
The web address for Mac's is http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.macsautoparts.com/index.html
The phone number is 800-777-0948 (U.S. and Canada)
I've dealt with these guys a few times and they seem to be OK.
Another place to check would be http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.auto krafters. com /welcome.html
Phone #Toll Free (within USA) 1-800-228-7346
Hope this helps,
Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
'64 F-250
James Oxley wrote:

> OK
>
> I didn't think it would be this hard. I am trying to find the upper/
> lower steering col berings for my 78 Bronco, no tilt and man trans. I
> tried Obs Ford parts, but they don't cover 78-79 Bronco's, only pickups.
> I'd like to assume a 78 F150 4 X 4 has the same col as my Bronco, but
> I'm not sure. Ford only has the bearings avail if I had tilt wheel.
>
> Drew mentioned Mac's. Anyone have a number for this place or the Ford
> PN's for these particular bearings?
>
> One other question, does the lower bearing come out of the plastic,
> snap in sleeve, or is it all one unit. Does the plastic sleeve come with
> it when you purchase a new lower bearing?
>
> Thanks in adavnce
>
> OX
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:37:52 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - dash--good deal?

At 11:29 AM 2/21/99 , you wrote:
>Hello. I'm new to this list. I live down here in Texas, San Antonio to be
>exact. I just bought a dash while I was up in Austin over the weekend and I
>was wondering if it was a good deal. I got a black '75 half-dash for $10.
>I cleaned it up and it looks as good and shiny as my mom's 99 ford F-150
>dash. Good deal, or no?

Sounds like a good deal to me ...

>1973 F-100 Ranger XLT "The Green Bandit"
>360CI, 2WD

Hey according to the VINs and such, this is what my truck started out life
as ... got any pics of it ?


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:04:09 -0900
From: "Erik Marquez"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

Ox when I replaced my lower bearing with an OEM part it came as a complete
assy. Plastic piece and bearing. But beware... it still had more slop in
it then I would have liked, and the plastic retainer was not real snug in
the column itself.

Erik Marquez
78 Bronco
bronco78 mosquitonet.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mosquitonet.com/~bronco78
bronco78 on the BB chat


- -----Original Message-----
From: James Oxley
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 6:48 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.


>OK
>
> I didn't think it would be this hard. I am trying to find the upper/
>lower steering col berings for my 78 Bronco, no tilt and man trans. I
>tried Obs Ford parts, but they don't cover 78-79 Bronco's, only pickups.
>I'd like to assume a 78 F150 4 X 4 has the same col as my Bronco, but
>I'm not sure. Ford only has the bearings avail if I had tilt wheel.
>
> Drew mentioned Mac's. Anyone have a number for this place or the Ford
>PN's for these particular bearings?
>
> One other question, does the lower bearing come out of the plastic,
>snap in sleeve, or is it all one unit. Does the plastic sleeve come with
>it when you purchase a new lower bearing?
>
> Thanks in adavnce
>
> OX
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:48 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

James: I should have mentioned this earlier but I'm certain that the
bearings in my 74 Bronco are the same as the ones in my 78. They both have
this rubber collar that holds them into the column on each end. I know you
can get the bearings at Wildhorse 4X4 as I bought two of them recently for
my 74. They have a webpage with pdf files of all their parts.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/

Let me know if you need more help.



Thanks
John MacNamara

805 577 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
805 526 3464 hm
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:James Oxley [SMTP:luxjo thecore.com]
> Sent:Monday, February 22, 1999 7:25 AM
> To:61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
>
> OK
>
> I didn't think it would be this hard. I am trying to find the upper/
> lower steering col berings for my 78 Bronco, no tilt and man trans. I
> tried Obs Ford parts, but they don't cover 78-79 Bronco's, only pickups.
> I'd like to assume a 78 F150 4 X 4 has the same col as my Bronco, but
> I'm not sure. Ford only has the bearings avail if I had tilt wheel.
>
> Drew mentioned Mac's. Anyone have a number for this place or the Ford
> PN's for these particular bearings?
>
> One other question, does the lower bearing come out of the plastic,
> snap in sleeve, or is it all one unit. Does the plastic sleeve come with
> it when you purchase a new lower bearing?
>
> Thanks in adavnce
>
> OX
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:21:56 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W

>you can put a 400 crank in a windsor, but extensive work must be done to the
>crankshaft.
>
Jeff, could you please elaborate. I don't think this is right. The 351W
and the 400 have the same crank journal size at 3" so it should be a
drop-in. The 400 has a taller deck so I think the only exotic thing you
need to do this is special (read shorter) pistons. I believe somebody said
that Keith Black makes such pistons. Am I right or wrong here? I want to
build one of these motors to replace the 302 in my F150 and see how long
the M5OD trans can stand it.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:40:40 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Amber rear turn signals

>I want to hear back on the success of adding the amber turn signals. Also,
>someone in my neighborhood has a late model Grand Am or Grand Prix that has
>some pretty neat looking lights in the rear plastic bumper in addition to
>the backup lights.

Really ? I've seen these but always thought they were backup lamps ...
when do they come on ? Being clear they can only come on when the vehicle
is moving backwards though right ?

>lights might work better than some of the general purpose after market
>lights.
>
Aren't these a molded light to point out a bit from center ? I thought
this at first too, but then thought they were aimed funny, maybe its just
the brackets and pumpers that give it that look ...

neat idea ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:54:14 -0800 (PST)
From: JP Morgon
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W

Not sure about this but to put a 351C crank in a 302 alot of grinding
is needed around the rear main this may be the case with putting the
400 crank in a 351W.

JT

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:12:46 EST
From: Fignewtun aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 pulley swap

Dear Friends,
Looks like the 84 brackets and pulleys will work. Thanks for your help. Fig
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:14:49 EST
From: Fignewtun aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 84 to 78 A/C compressor swap

Dear Friends,
Does anyone know if i can swap an 84 compressor to a 78? I have the
brackets for an 84 and was wondering if it would work on my 78 A/C. Fig
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:14:30 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351c heads on 351w

For those people interested in adapting the 351c 2bl heads onto the windsor
I found a webpage that has phone numbers where you can buy the oval port
intake that you will need for these heads. They have some additional
information.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wabba.net/clevor.html

Thanks
John MacNamara

805 577 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
805 526 3464 hm
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:34:03 -0600
From: "Michael Masse"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351c heads on 351w

Other then the compression ratio on the very early 70's Cleveland heads, =
is there any difference between Cleveland 2V and M block heads? I guess =
what I'm asking, is can you use M block heads for this swap?

Mike
78 Bronco Custom
>>> "John MacNamara" 22-02-99 1:14:30 PM >>>

>For those people interested in adapting the 351c 2bl heads onto the =
windsor
>I found a webpage that has phone numbers where you can buy the oval port
>intake that you will need for these heads. They have some additional
>information.
>
>


Michael R. Masse -Department of Medicine
Voice: (608) 263-0341 -University of Wisconsin
Fax: (608) 262-6743 -600 Highland Ave J5/220 CSC
mrm medicine.wisc.edu -Madison, WI 53703

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.medicine.wisc.edu/~mrm



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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:53:23 -0600
From: juredd - Justin Reddell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ebrake foot p...now BLOWBY

> ------------------------------
Ohio Bill,
I checked the compression on all eight cylinders this past weekend. Seven out of the eight cylinders on compression between 120 and 132 or so. The #4 cylinder on 170 the first time I checked it then when I went back for a second check it had 160 and then I went for a third try and got something like 150. I did at least two checks on all the others with very little change between checks. I don't think I was doing it wrong. Also on cylinders 4 and 8 I was getting a mist of gas out of the cylinders and the plugs were wet with gas when I pulled them out. When I would release the pressure on the gauge it would release a mist of gas or what smelt like gas. What do I do now or all ok? O' by the way the blow is not as bad as you described below. Just quit a bit of smoke coming out of the passengers side tappit pan.
I have a possible third problem now. My oil pressure has been fluctuating so I bought a manual oil pressure gauge to see if it was the oil pump or the old gauge. Well when I started the truck up for the first time with the new gauge it when up to about 75 psi then came down pretty guickly to around 25 psi. When I rev it up to about 3000 rpm's the pressure went up to around 50 psi and then right back down to 25 or below. It idles below 25 psi. If I rev it up after that point I will barely get above 25 psi. The oil hasn't even reached the gauge in the truck yet and the truck ran for about 5 minutes. No kinks in the line!

Thanks
"Arkansaw" Justin

>Justin,
> Sadly, the last list discussion about blowby involved my expiring 360.
> *sniff. RIP little FE buddy* Compression test your engine pronto.
> I recall "normal" compression should be around 140 psi (I could be
> wrong), but what's important is that none of the cylinders differs from
> another cylinder by more than 20 (or so) PSI. Ideally, all 8 cylinders
> should be close (in compression) to each other.
> I don't know how bad your blowby is, but I've heard it can push the
> oil dipstick out of the tube, and I've seen it blow oil out through the
> breather at a rate of a quart every 25 miles. Messy.
> If you're engine is sick, there are plenty of us on the list who have
> been in your shoes and are willing to help. Keep us posted on your engine.
> ****
> >Also, I just got my 360/390 put in the truck a month of so ago. It has
> quite >of blow by. I know I have seen something on this list about this.
> It had >about 5000 miles on it when I put it in. So they said. My brother
> is the >machine in the family and he was a little wearied about it. He
> wanted me to >check the compress in it but haven't done that yet. What
> should the >compression be?
> ****
> Ohio Bill
> 1968 Torino GT (429 4V 4speed)
> 1968 F100 (360 4V 4speed)
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:26:55 -0600
From: Jeremy Stiffler
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - dash--good deal?

I just took some pictures this weekend of it once I got it all cleaned up.
I still have to have them developed so I'll put them on the web once they
are developed.

Jeremy Stiffler

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of William S Hart
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 10:38 AM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - dash--good deal?
>
>
> At 11:29 AM 2/21/99 , you wrote:
> >Hello. I'm new to this list. I live down here in Texas, San
> Antonio to be
> >exact. I just bought a dash while I was up in Austin over the
> weekend and I
> >was wondering if it was a good deal. I got a black '75
> half-dash for $10.
> >I cleaned it up and it looks as good and shiny as my mom's 99 ford F-150
> >dash. Good deal, or no?
>
> Sounds like a good deal to me ...
>
> >1973 F-100 Ranger XLT "The Green Bandit"
> >360CI, 2WD
>
> Hey according to the VINs and such, this is what my truck started out life
> as ... got any pics of it ?
>
>
> Just my 2cents
>
> wish
>
> Links
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
> '73 1/2 ton 4x4
> Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
> '96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:26:04 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 -Metaphorisis of a truck

Thanks for your message at 10:37 AM 2/22/99 -0600, William S Hart. Your
message was:

I got a black '75 half-dash for $10.
>>I cleaned it up and it looks as good and shiny as my mom's 99 ford F-150
>>dash. Good deal, or no?
>
>Hey according to the VINs and such, this is what my truck started out life
>as ... got any pics of it ?
>

And Darwin thought he was on to something...


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:36:35 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 -Metamorphosis of a truck

Don't you hate it when some smart-ass can't even spell "Metamorphosis"?

Thanks for your message at 12:26 PM 2/22/99 -0800, Dennis Pearson. Your
message was:
>Thanks for your message at 10:37 AM 2/22/99 -0600, William S Hart. Your
>message was:
>
> I got a black '75 half-dash for $10.
>>>I cleaned it up and it looks as good and shiny as my mom's 99 ford F-150
>>>dash. Good deal, or no?
> >
>>Hey according to the VINs and such, this is what my truck started out life
>>as ... got any pics of it ?
>>
>
>And Darwin thought he was on to something...
>
>
>Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA
>
>1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
>1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
>1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
> I shortened this to only FT's
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>
Dennis L. Pearson

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ctc.edu/~dpearson.index.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ctc.edu/~dpearson/popcult.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/lyrics.htm
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/dlp.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:45:29 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - pics.

At 02:26 PM 2/22/99 , you wrote:
>I just took some pictures this weekend of it once I got it all cleaned up.
>I still have to have them developed so I'll put them on the web once they
>are developed.
>
That's great :) When it comes to how to:'s and what's changed on the
truck, a pic is worth more than 1000 words in my mind.



Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:44:06 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 -Metamorphosis of a truck

At 12:36 PM 2/22/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Don't you hate it when some smart-ass can't even spell "Metamorphosis"?
>>
>>And Darwin thought he was on to something...
>>
>>Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

Funny! Another example of the Darwin Effect!!!! 8-)

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony
(sorry man- had to do it!)
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:55:00 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W

John: I think he is referring to adding additional stroke to the crank to
get up to 426ci. The 400 crank will drop right in and give a net of 408
cubic inches.

Here's some info I found on a website on this matter:

The next practical size is using a cast 400M crankshaft , ranging from a
destroked 3.850 to 4.000, 4.062, 4.100, and 4.170. This nets cubic inch
displacements of 393, 408, 414, 416 and 426ci.

It is our preference to reduce the main journal to 2.750 and use the
Federal Mogul spacers in the Windsor Block to reduce bearing speed (and oil
temperature).

Thanks
John MacNamara

805 577 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
805 526 3464 hm
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:John Strauss [SMTP:jstrauss inetport.com]
> Sent:Monday, February 22, 1999 9:22 AM
> To:Ford Trucks List
> Subject:FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W
>
> >you can put a 400 crank in a windsor, but extensive work must be done to
> the
> >crankshaft.
> >
> Jeff, could you please elaborate. I don't think this is right. The 351W
> and the 400 have the same crank journal size at 3" so it should be a
> drop-in. The 400 has a taller deck so I think the only exotic thing you
> need to do this is special (read shorter) pistons. I believe somebody
> said
> that Keith Black makes such pistons. Am I right or wrong here? I want to
> build one of these motors to replace the 302 in my F150 and see how long
> the M5OD trans can stand it.
> _
> _| ~~. John Strauss
> \, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
> \( Texas Fight!
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:01:45 -0500
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

John MacNamara wrote:
>
> James: I should have mentioned this earlier but I'm certain that the
> bearings in my 74 Bronco are the same as the ones in my 78. They both have
> this rubber collar that holds them into the column on each end.

That sounds like my upper, but my lower has a plastic hosuing that
holds an internal bearing. The plastic housing snaps into teh lower
section of tube. It does not look like it was that great a design, even
when it was new. Thanks for the info, I'll check it out.

OX




I know you
> can get the bearings at Wildhorse 4X4 as I bought two of them recently for
> my 74. They have a webpage with pdf files of all their parts.
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/
>
> Let me know if you need more help.
>
> Thanks
> John MacNamara
>
> 805 577 2536 wk
> 805 577 2768 fx
> 805 526 3464 hm
> ESN 495-2536
> jmacnam nortelnetworks.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Oxley [SMTP:luxjo thecore.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 7:25 AM
> > To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> > Subject: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.
> >
> > OK
> >
> > I didn't think it would be this hard. I am trying to find the upper/
> > lower steering col berings for my 78 Bronco, no tilt and man trans. I
> > tried Obs Ford parts, but they don't cover 78-79 Bronco's, only pickups.
> > I'd like to assume a 78 F150 4 X 4 has the same col as my Bronco, but
> > I'm not sure. Ford only has the bearings avail if I had tilt wheel.
> >
> > Drew mentioned Mac's. Anyone have a number for this place or the Ford
> > PN's for these particular bearings?
> >
> > One other question, does the lower bearing come out of the plastic,
> > snap in sleeve, or is it all one unit. Does the plastic sleeve come with
> > it when you purchase a new lower bearing?
> >
> > Thanks in adavnce
> >
> > OX
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:57:09 -0500
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steering col rebuild.

Erik Marquez wrote:
>
> Ox when I replaced my lower bearing with an OEM part it came as a complete
> assy. Plastic piece and bearing. But beware... it still had more slop in
> it then I would have liked, and the plastic retainer was not real snug in
> the column itself.
>
> Erik Marquez

OK, so your the second person that has told me the factory replacement
sucks. I guess I might have to build something that holds whatever
bearing I can get my hands on with the right ID. I only have a week and
a half until the next wheelin run. It's going to be tight time wise.
Thanks for the info.

OX
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:58:11 -0800 (PST)
From: JP Morgon
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351W vs. 351C

The 351C 2bbl heads and the 351M's are interchangeable.



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:14:17 -0500
From: "Ted & Sarah Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351W vs. 351C

I thought you couldn't swap C's for M's because the intake ports were
different and the intake wouldn't fit properly. I'm probably wrong on this.
But something to check before you get to deep anyway.

Later,

- -Ted

- -----Original Message-----
From: JP Morgon
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 7:45 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351W vs. 351C


>
>The 351C 2bbl heads and the 351M's are interchangeable.
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:20:29 -0500
From: "Ted & Sarah Freeman"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Gas Tanks (again!)

Guy/Gals,

My Dad needs a tank for a '73. Will all tanks, '73-'79, fit? I deal mostly
with the '67-'72 and am not that familiar with the other years.

Thanks,

- -Ted


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:47:18 -0500
From: David Wadson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re. Emissions and major model modifications

>>70.120 RCW is the Motor Vehicle Emissions which requires all emissions
>>equipment originally installed by the manufacturer or a "suitable
>>replacement" to be " in place and functioning correctly."

So how do you know what your vehicle originally had? Unless you happen to
have the original spec sheet pasted on the bottom of the original seat, how
are you to know if you are supposed to have cats or not? Does it simply go
by what that truck was originally registered and what kind of motor was in
it? If you wanted an older vehicle that had no emission stuff, how hard
would really it be to change the VIN number of your truck. Don't even
tamper with the VIN tag itself...swap the whole cab from an older truck.
The only piece that didn't come off my '78 F100 was the cab - I could
easily buy a beater '71 with a good cab, drop the cab and VIN number onto
my 78 and register it as the 71. Heck, it wouldn't have to be an
F100...didn't the F150's have looser emission regulations when they first
came out?

What is the limit on modifications you can make to a vehicle before it's no
longer considered what the registration says it is?


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS2" - 78 F100/302/C4


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:47:18 -0500
From: David Wadson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Finding body panels in SW Ontario

>Hay has anyone got any info on where I can get some body panels for my
>truck in southwestern Ontario Can.
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

There are actually 70's Ford trucks in southern Ontario? I'm vacationing
down near Toronto and for the 5+ million people in the area I've only seen
one. Back up in Northwestern Ontario (the redneck end of Ontario, I guess)
I see at least 3 just in the 2 blocks around my work. I would think that
down here you would have plenty of choice for purchasing new panels from a
body shop or going to one of many scrapyards.

I sure kind of miss my truck while I'm down here. I don't know if it could
handle the driving on the 401 at 130km/h but it would probably stop those
crazy Toronto drivers from swerving in front of you...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS2" - 78 F100/302/C4


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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:46:08 -0500
From: "Phil"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1978 Lariat

> Camper Special packages were offered for the first time this year on the
F-250 4x4

Brings up a question I have about my 79 F-250 4x4, I have sway bars on it,
dual gas tanks, auxiliary trans cooler, 8100 gvw among other things. Was
wondering if it was a camper special or towing package or something. Any
suggestions? or was the truck just individually optioned that way.

Phil Beattie
66 F100 390 C6
66 F100 (no drivetrain)
79 F250 4x4 400

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:26:52 -0500
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 9 inch rebuild procedure

Bobr wrote:
>
> Great article. Thanks a lot Ox. I am curious what views are on what is
> the best all-around use rearend ratio for a F-150 (with 300)? Thanks for
> your help.
>

What are you doing with it, and what size tire are you running?


OX
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:01:06 -0600
From: jcarbone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - > >

What are the specifications for a stock '78 F-100 300 ci I6 cam?

Will the dual-plane Offenhuaser intake manifold fit my '78 F-100 with
factory A/C without hitting the A/C box on the cowl?

What vehicles used the 390 cfm Holley carb?

I am considering some performance upgrades for my truck - any help with
this info would be appreciated.

Thanks Ken for a great site!!!!!!!!!

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:00:07 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 shorty headers

>> Does it have the provision for the hot air intake. If not, it would
>>affect cold start emissions. On top of that, I imagine NJ taking the
>>absolute extreme side of everything, would require a CARB EO number for
>>anything to do with the engine.

>I doubt that it will have provisions for hot air intake but those kits are
>readily available from the aftermarket and I believe that Steve Delanty
>built/modified one for his truck.

Yes, the Hooker headers I bought came with an itty-bitty little joke of
a heat stove that hoseclamps to a header tube. It's supposed to make
them CARB legal (and they came with a little sticker with a CARB #),
but the reality was that the stove is too small/inefficient and I had
carb (not to be confused with CARB) icing problems on cool moist days.
I built a sheet metal stove that bolts to the two upper #1, #2 exhaust
bolts and wraps around a good sized portion of the #1, #2 header pipes.
It plumbs into a air cleaner that has a vacuum operated Hot Air Control
valve in the snout. When vacuum is high (idle or light load) the HAC
valve lets it pull hot air off the exhaust stove. When the vacuum is
low (you're exercising your right foot) then the HAC valve closes off
the hot air and lets it pull cooler air thru the snout. That eliminated
my carb icing problem and made for better cold motor driveability.
A good hot air stove and a air cleaner with a vacuum operated HAC valve
is a good thing if you drive where it's cold and wet, and it may be
required to pass smog in some states...


>BTW where the heck is Steve?

Uhhh, I dunno. (-:
I've been terribly busy these days working and learning some new skills
and getting involved with glass bending and neon art, so i don't have much
time for email these days. I'm still here, but I only look in every
couple weeks to see what's up with the good folks on the FTE lists.

My '71 F100 turned over 50,000 miles on it's "rebuilt" FE390 last week.
Running strong and smooth, no oil leaks, still nice and clean and uses
about 1 qt of oil between 3000 mile oil changes. Not bad for a motor
that got rebuilt reusing the origional pistons in honed std. bores with
new rings. Those pistons and cylinders have got over 270,000 miles on them
now and holding up just fine!
FE's forever!


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

"There are no stupid questions... only stupid people."

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:06:36 PST
From: "Michael Fletcher"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - tranies

hi, this list is cool, and this is my 1st post. I have a 77 F100 custum
with a 300-6 and 3 on the tree. I and thinking about puting it on the
floor because want to go faster and pull better. I don't known how hard
this is to do and what would be the best trany to use.
any help would be good.



(: Fletch ;)


______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:30:44 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Junkyard finds/dual tank switch

Hey all

The other day I found a dual tank switch where the rear window switch
normally goes on a 78-79 Bronco. It even had the heater/AC controls
plate imprinted with the correct lettering, although I didn't take that
part. I took the switch cause I had never seen one and I thought it was
neat. Anyone need one you can have it.

OX
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:34:02 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 shorty headers

sdelanty sonic.net wrote:
>


> Yes, the Hooker headers I bought came with an itty-bitty little joke of
> a heat stove that hoseclamps to a header tube. It's supposed to make
> them CARB legal (and they came with a little sticker with a CARB #),

That is good enough for me. All I want is the sticker with the headers,
if/when I have to get them. Thanks for the reply.

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:43:33 -0600
From: "inkdezjim"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Leaf Spring Bushing Removal

Jeff Wrote:


and utilizing the techniques
established by the BruteForce Cybernetics Corp.
I used a handleless sledge

Okay Jeff, so do you still live near Cincy, or is it a used to?

Jim E.



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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:40:24 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re. Emissions and major model modifications

David Wadson wrote:
>

> So how do you know what your vehicle originally had?

Ford shop manuals will tell you, at least my 78's do.

If you wanted an older vehicle that had no emission stuff, how hard
> would really it be to change the VIN number of your truck. Don't even
> tamper with the VIN tag itself...swap the whole cab from an older >truck.

Technically, it goes by the frame.

> The only piece that didn't come off my '78 F100 was the cab - I could
> easily buy a beater '71 with a good cab, drop the cab and VIN number onto
> my 78 and register it as the 71. Heck, it wouldn't have to be an
> F100...didn't the F150's have looser emission regulations when they first
> came out?

Quiet!!! :-), Don't want to give away all our secrets.

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:38:28 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - warm up

Hey list,

I'm wondering how many on the list think that warming the truck up before
driving it is essential to the longevity of the engine? I believe this
myself, and I'm wondering who else does or doesn't. I try to warm mine up
for 10 minutes or so before driving it, even in summer.

Just wondering.

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:04:28 -0600
From: b.mccoy baldeagle.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: 78 F250 4x4, Lariat

>My '78 F250 has the lariat emblems on the side and the glove-
>box, but after talking to some ppl, they think its not really a lariat,
>but i dunno.

A buddy of mine has a '78 F250 Lariat. His as all the options listed
by other posts plus: Factory Dual Batteries, Factory Lighted visors,
and of course Tilt, Cruise, Air ect. From what I know they are very
rare to find any more. You can get almost all the replacements
you need out of trucks with the XLT trim but there are a few pieces
like the lighted visors that only came in the Lariat. Good luck with
the resto.

- -B
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:55:21 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - warm up

In a message dated 2/22/99 10:04:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcbeatty rmi.net
writes:

>
> I'm wondering how many on the list think that warming the truck up before
> driving it is essential to the longevity of the engine? I believe this
> myself, and I'm wondering who else does or doesn't. I try to warm mine up
> for 10 minutes or so before driving it, even in summer.

Yep--I like to warm mine up. I often let it run 20-30 minutes in the winter
before I plow. Why? Because I'm a wimp and I want it warm! In the summer I
will usually let it run a minute or two then go. I do think it's important to
allow the oil to get pumping before the engine is put under a load. I have no
idea whether it has helped the longevity of the engine. I do know it adds to
the fuel bill.

~~Thom B~~
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/tbeeee/page/index.htm

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:42:55 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 crank in 351W

At 09:54 AM 22:2:99 -0800, you wrote:
>Not sure about this but to put a 351C crank in a 302 alot of grinding
>is needed around the rear main this may be the case with putting the
>400 crank in a 351W.

Actually, theres more to putting a 351C crank in a 302, the mains
need to be turned down a 1/2", the max stroke for a 302 block is
about 3.45", (for a stock block) because you *have* to clearance
grind the bottom of the cylinders and the oilpan rails so the rodbolts
won't hit them. Now, if you wanna spend cubic $'s, the are a few
shops out there that will set you up with a 347cid short block for
about $3500. Stroker kits are running about $2200, but you'll
have to find someone who'll set the block up......

Go to www.dssracing.com.....

Steve & the Rockette
Dreaming about a 514cid for the '63 F100......

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:41:22 EST
From: L7514 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re. Emissions and major model modifications

My 'ol 1974 F100 has been in the family since the day it was bought off of the
lot. Because of a few years in Iowa, then now in Georgia humidity for 8 yrs,
it is getting alot of rust. Too much to fix. I now have a body that I want
to swap over to it, but its off of a "78 truck. How can I do this, & keep my
origional 1974 tags & decals to both keep it the origional truck & also not
have to worry about emissions. I really want to keep the ol girl & this is
the easiest & cheapest way that I can do it. It's got around 273,000 miles on
it & I'd like to take it another 300,000 miles & keep it "for the most part"
the same truck that my Grandfather bought back in the spring of 1974. Any
suggestions on the best way to work the tag situation?
Lance
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:03:42 EST
From: M351STANG aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - What is the best i can do with my Winsdor

Hello everyone,
I got the Ford motorsports catalog and found a 351W crankshaft
to make 392 cu. in. part # M-6303-A383 its a new part.
The catalog said:

- -392 cu. in. displacement with .030" overbore 351W block
- -Low cost cast steel, stronger than an offset ground production
crankshaft
- -Crankshaft used in the M-6013-A392 stroker kit
- -3.85" stroke
- -3.000" main journal diameter (same as stock 351W)
- -2.311" rod journal diameter, 1.690" rod journal width
- -For use in 1971-1996 351 W blocks
- -Can be used with stock rods and 302 pistons
- -Requires balancing.
$695.00 is what ford motorsports wants for it.
Summit Racing Equipment has a 393 cu. in. 351W
crankshaft that uses a stock rod and a 302 piston, or any
351W hipro rod, or piston you would like from a 302.
They want $549.95 for it, and I forgot to ask for the part
numbers.
I thought you might want to know.
Bye
Craig J.

65 F100, FE 427 motor and C6 trany, is in the back, and
my 1969 roller cam 351W with AOD wide ratio is going in....


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