61-79-list-digest Sunday, January 10 1999 Volume 03 : Number 005



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
FTE 61-79 - Brakes
FTE 61-79 - tailgates
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
FTE 61-79 - Dwell Problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
FTE 61-79 - Factory Lift
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
RE: FTE 61-79 - Factory Lift
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
Re: FTE 61-79 - gasoline filler hose
FTE 61-79 - Fun w/ Ford Blue #205
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy
FTE 61-79 - Re: NP435 vs. T-18
FTE 61-79 - Re: NP435 vs. T-18
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dwell Problems
FTE 61-79 - 4 speed
RE: FTE 61-79 - Fun w/ Ford Blue #205
FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch
Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dwell Problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch

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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:03:00 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

In a message dated 1/8/99 8:37:05 a.m. Eastern Standard Time, TBeeee writes:


I couldn't resist getting in on this one---I have wondered for a while now
where this term "High-Boy" comes from. I have never seen any references to
it in any Ford or related publications. >>

I read all the posts this morning on this so-called "High-Boy" and "Factory
Lift" issue. So far no hard facts on term "High-Boy" or "Low-Boy" Anyone
have any cold hard facts (let's avoid the hearsay variety).

I also liked Don's suggestion:





It is very hard comparing trucks over the net. Also it is easy for good
craftsman to modify suspension with more aggressive springs to make truck
appear stock.


--Thom B--
1967 F-250 4WD 390
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/tbeeee/page/index.htm

p.s. I'm on digest so if I have any fires to put out please e-mail me as
well as posting the list. THis way I will at least know the fires are burning
:-)


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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 08:47:06 -0800
From: Art Verling
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brakes

I would like to put power brakes in my 64 F100. What parts do I need and
what vehicles can I get parts from to do this project myself? I have
found a TBird with a 429 4V, C6, and a 9" if anyone needs parts in the
Reno area.
Thanks,
Art Verling
AV ix.netcom.com

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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:18:47 -0500 (EST)
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - tailgates

James,

In a way I wish mine was rusted out. That would be a good excuse to hunt a
"new" quick release gate. This spring/summer while I am at the boneyards I
will keep an eye out for the hinge.

- -John
(borrowed computer without usual signature file)


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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:56:25 EST
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

i can't say that i have an answer, but i had a 75 f250 4x4 the height on it
was relatively low, a friend of mine had a highboy his sat a good bit higher
and rode alot stiffer, his had the big hubs and mine had the conventional hubs
was the only other difference. i thought his may have been a f350 but it
checks out to be a 250 with a 44 in the front. was the highboy maybe a f250
heavy duty or something? maybe camper special?
i still can't find out about this 65 f250 4x4 shortwheel base i found, how
rare is this truck? anybody got any ideas?

thanks, jeff grant
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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:06:13 -0800 (PST)
From: m frank
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dwell Problems

I've got a Dwell issue. I replaced my points, capacitor, etc. on my
'72 390 ci. in my '71 F100 4x4. The book says to set the gap on the
points to .017 and that should give me between 26 and 30 deg. I get
about 20 degrees with the timing set at 6 degrees btdc. If I close
the gap to .012, I can get 26 degrees of dwell. Closing it to .008
gets me 30 degrees and the truck runs great up to 3000 rpm and it
won't rev past that. I do reset the timing ever time that I change
thedwell.
What gives? I had the same problem with the other set of points. Is
the distributor bad? Could this be the reason that I need to have the
choke partially closed to avoid hesitation? I'm at a loss.
Thanks.

==
If you can't fix it with duct tape, it's not broke.



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:44:29 -0500
From: "Phil"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

I had owned two 77 f-250 4x4s, one was highboy the other I guess you could
call lowboy. both had 400m with 4 speed. the difference between the two was
obviously the height, the high boy had bigger hubs, the highboy had the gas
tank in cab, lowboy was between rear frame rails, the high boy had divorced
transfer case, lowboy was attached to tranny, and the highboy had a narrower
rear frame than the lowboy, found that out when trying to buy a hitch. IM
not sure of this but someone told me the high boy used a dump truck frame,
thats why it was narrower, to clear dual wheels and why tank was mounted in
cab.

Phil
66 F-100 390, c-6
79 F-250 4x4 400, c-6

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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:34:59 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Factory Lift

Had to jump in here....the 77-1/2 through 79 F-250's DO have the 3" rear
block. Uncle Mike is correct about the "Low-Boy" name and lowered front
end.....

Just got through putting a lift kit in one....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:36:40 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

In mid-77 Ford switched from the "Highboy" to the "Lowboy" so it's very
possible to have 2 77s with different configurations.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Phil
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy


>I had owned two 77 f-250 4x4s, one was highboy the other I guess you could
>call lowboy. both had 400m with 4 speed. the difference between the two was
>obviously the height, the high boy had bigger hubs, the highboy had the gas
>tank in cab, lowboy was between rear frame rails, the high boy had divorced
>transfer case, lowboy was attached to tranny, and the highboy had a
narrower
>rear frame than the lowboy, found that out when trying to buy a hitch. IM
>not sure of this but someone told me the high boy used a dump truck frame,
>thats why it was narrower, to clear dual wheels and why tank was mounted in
>cab.


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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 15:45:20 -0700
From: "Miska, Richard L (Rick)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Factory Lift

Hey jeff, Does this mean you can come and put a lift kit on my bronco for
me?? ha ha ha ha
By the way, does anybody have a lift kit , a safe one, for a 78-79 Bronco
for sale?? Rick

p.s. Hey Jeff, I thought you were out of here!!

> Had to jump in here....the 77-1/2 through 79 F-250's DO have the 3" rear
> block. Uncle Mike is correct about the "Low-Boy" name and lowered front
> end.....
>
> Just got through putting a lift kit in one....
>
> Colorado Jeff
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>
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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:00:09 -0500
From: "Phil"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

I knew in mid 77 they stopped making highboys, so then are you saying all
mid 77's back f-250 4x4s were highboys?
- -----Original Message-----


>In mid-77 Ford switched from the "Highboy" to the "Lowboy" so it's very
>possible to have 2 77s with different configurations.

Phil
66 F-100 390 c-6
79 F-250 4x4 400m c-6

html

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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:16:39 -0500
From: "Phil"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

i understand what you are saying about the two trucks. the one thing that
puzzles me is in 77 they first used the fe engine then switched them to the
modifieds, wouldnt that make my highboy a 77 1/2, assuming no one changed it
over of course. that is why i thought they made both at same time.

Phil
66 F-100 390 c-6
79 F-250 4x4 400m c-6


>>In mid-77 Ford switched from the "Highboy" to the "Lowboy" so it's very
>>possible to have 2 77s with different configurations.



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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 19:09:22 -0500
From: cannandale netpointe.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - gasoline filler hose

Alot of shops (including the one I work at) uses aluminized pipe, cheaper
than stainless, but dosent rust...


cannandale
'78 F250 4x4, 460

At 11:19 AM 1/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Tim,
>
>I tend to get long winded on explanations. It's the teacher in me I guess.
>Getting your exhaust bend in a parts house is a good idea. JC Whitney and
>others offer the bends in stainless steel, too. A little more pricey, but
>that wopuld solve the corrosion problem.
>
>
>-John
>
>jlagrone ford-trucks.com
>1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
>http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
>Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!
>
>
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>


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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:53:31 -0500 (EST)
From: jdklaers mailhost.magicnet.net (PredFan)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fun w/ Ford Blue #205

I just finished painting my valve covers and air cleaners. I took all the
old paint and rust off the stock covers that say "Power by Ford" on them
and gave them several coats of Ford Blue #205. Then, I painted the air
cleaner. Such a simple pleasure and now that it's done it looks great. I
had to resist the temptation to paint everything in there.

I also just got my bench seat back from the apholsterers today. My '71
Stepside is stylin' and profilin' inside and out!

John Klaers


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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:26:53 -0700
From: "Michael Connor"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 4x4 Highboy

>i understand what you are saying about the two trucks. the one thing that
>puzzles me is in 77 they first used the fe engine then switched them to the
>modifieds, wouldnt that make my highboy a 77 1/2, assuming no one changed
it
>over of course. that is why i thought they made both at same time.
>
>Phil
>66 F-100 390 c-6
>79 F-250 4x4 400m c-6
>
>
>>>In mid-77 Ford switched from the "Highboy" to the "Lowboy" so it's very
>>>possible to have 2 77s with different configurations.



Right you are, Phil. Check your manufacturer's date on the sticker on the
drivers
side door frame near the door latch. Mine says 12/76 and my 77 HiBoy
came with the 351M engine. The 76-77 period was a very transitional time
production -wise. I envision them using up as many of the old remaining 76
parts that
they could in that first production run of the 77's just to get rid of them.
The 77's were
truly the "melting pot" year. There were a lot of changes between 76-77 1/2
(frame, engine family-FE to M, integral power steering, suspension, gas
tanks,
mirrors, yada yada yada) and the 77 was right in the middle of it. That's
kind of a
running joke among the 77 owners I've encountered over the 19 years that
I've owned mine. Everybody's is different in some aspect.:-)
Oh well, they're still 100% FORD no matter what year they are.:-)

Cheers,

Uncle Mike
Phoenix, AZ.


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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 19:23:27 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: NP435 vs. T-18

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:36:04 -0700 (MST), Scott Richmond
wrote:
>
> A while ago I read (I think on this list) that the gear ratios in the
> NP435 and T-18 are very similar. I have always heard that a T-18 is
> considered a very strong transmission, and I read in a 4-Wheeler magazine
> that the NP435 is great too. Could some of you experts give me your
> opinions on this please. Is there a way of telling the differences
> between these two trannys just by looking at them? Also, is it true that
> a T-19 is the same as a T-18, but has a syncro for first gear?

Off the top of my head, NP435 is 6.69 first gear. T-98 (precursor to
the T-18) 6.40, T-18 (slight improvements over T-98) 6.32. I believe
the T-19 could be had in a 6.32 first but I think it is more common to
find one with a taller first.

As for identification, the T-98, T-18 and T-19 should have the same
style case. The model number is found on the forward part of the
driver's side of the case. I have a '66 F-250 with a 435 and the only
place I found a number "435" on it was stamped in some little tiny
letters on an inspection plate on the passenger side rear. The cases
look totally different, though.

As for which is better, the 435 is supposed to be stronger, has a lower
first gear, and has an amazingly short throw for a truck transmission
for 2, 3, and 4. I wouldn't say the T-18 or T-98 is less desirable by
much, though.

Birken
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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 19:34:35 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: NP435 vs. T-18

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:43:56 -0700, "Michael Connor"
wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Having run both of these trannies in a jeep I can tell you that Don is on
> the money
> about the 435 having an aluminum top cover. If the trans is in the vehicle
> however,
> you can tell by where reverse is. On the T18, reverse is to the right and UP
> (forward).
> NP435's reverse is to the right and DOWN (back). Both trannies are nearly
> bulletproof, with the NP435 having a slightly slower (6.69:1) first gear
> than the
> T18 (6.32:1)...

This is not always the case. My '61 with T-98 is the way you describe,
as is my uncle's '71 with T-18. However, my friend's '77 also has a
T-18 and reverse is in the rearward position. I heard they changed it
in later models, not sure what the cutoff year might have been.

Birken
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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 23:15:41 -0500
From: Lord_Xaenon
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dwell Problems

m frank wrote:
>
> I've got a Dwell issue. I replaced my points, capacitor, etc. on my
> '72 390 ci. in my '71 F100 4x4. The book says to set the gap on the
> points to .017 and that should give me between 26 and 30 deg. I get
> about 20 degrees with the timing set at 6 degrees btdc. If I close
> the gap to .012, I can get 26 degrees of dwell. Closing it to .008
> gets me 30 degrees and the truck runs great up to 3000 rpm and it
> won't rev past that. I do reset the timing ever time that I change
> thedwell.
> What gives? I had the same problem with the other set of points. Is
> the distributor bad? Could this be the reason that I need to have the
> choke partially closed to avoid hesitation? I'm at a loss.
> Thanks.

Two possible explanations come to mind: a worn distributor cam or worn
distributor shaft bushings. A worn distributor cam will cause the exact
symptoms you describe: the inability to set proper dweel and gap. It's
because the corners round off and can't open the points as far as it
should; arcing is usually the result. The capacitor is there to help
prevent that, but if the points can't open more than .008 inch, the
capacitor isn't going to be much help.

Setting the points gap at its factory spec will eliminate the arcing
but will not allow enough time for the coil to charge completely between
firings. This will usually manifest itself as a misfiring condition at
higher rpms (it is sometimes described as a "bog").

If the distributor cam is worn, these symptoms will be fairly
consistent.
If the distributor shaft bushings are worn, similar symptoms will exist
but will be more erratic, since they're caused by the shaft bouncing
around inside the distributor housing. It's possible too that both
conditions might exist in your engine.

As for needing to keep the choke partially closed to reduce hesitation,
I'd have to say its probably a lean condition occurring in the engine.
If it's happening during light acceleration, it might be a
malfunctioning
accelerator pump in the carburetor, or a vaccuum leak somewhere, or
perhaps the carburetor just isn't correctly adjusted.

Hope this helps,

Mark

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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:21:11 EST
From: YELLERTIM aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 4 speed

I have a 4 speed that I am putting in my 68 F-250, and i want to know if it
is a NP 435. I was wondering because on the top by the cover where the shifter
goes in, it has NP but it does not say anything about 435. Any answers well
help.
Thank you
Tim
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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:50:57 -0700
From: "Syber"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Fun w/ Ford Blue #205

Woohoo!
Gotta love Ford Blue spray paint! I know exactly what you're going through.
Repainted the Valve covers and air intake on both my '79 and '72 Broncos.
Amazing what such simple pleasures can do for you. And yes, I know about
the urge to continue painting....

Paul Fogle
'79 Bronco Custom, 351M
4" Rough Country Suspension Lift, 33" BFG MT's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=180

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of PredFan
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 1999 5:54 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fun w/ Ford Blue #205


I just finished painting my valve covers and air cleaners. I took all the
old paint and rust off the stock covers that say "Power by Ford" on them
and gave them several coats of Ford Blue #205. Then, I painted the air
cleaner. Such a simple pleasure and now that it's done it looks great. I
had to resist the temptation to paint everything in there.

I also just got my bench seat back from the apholsterers today. My '71
Stepside is stylin' and profilin' inside and out!

John Klaers


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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 21:53:57 -0700
From: Andrew Antipas
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch

Just bought a 77 f250. The truck has duel fuel tanks. Where in the cab
is the selector switch for the fuel tanks? My 76 f150 has a mechanical
switch on the floor next to the drivers door. The 77 looks to have an
electrical switch? Where there any 77 model year f series trucks that
came with FE engines? The vin number says the truck should have a 400ci
but the truck has a 360 or 390? How difficult a swap is that and should
I have any concerns? the truck drives fine......

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Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:00:53 -0500
From: "Phil"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch

my 79 has dual tanks and the electrical switch is on the face of the heater
controls. not sure if same as 77
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Antipas
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 12:00 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch


>Just bought a 77 f250. The truck has duel fuel tanks. Where in the cab
>is the selector switch for the fuel tanks? My 76 f150 has a mechanical
>switch on the floor next to the drivers door. The 77 looks to have an
>electrical switch? Where there any 77 model year f series trucks that
>came with FE engines? The vin number says the truck should have a 400ci
>but the truck has a 360 or 390? How difficult a swap is that and should
>I have any concerns? the truck drives fine......
>
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Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 01:54:16 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dwell Problems

In a message dated 1/9/99 12:07:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
m_hoolie yahoo.com writes:


the distributor bad? >>

There is a one thing that can directly cause what you describe and that is
having your distributor cam rounded off (worn out). After examining the cam
and if it does not look very worn, borrow a different dwell meter (another
possibility). A quick look at the dwell meter while it is running can tell
you the general condition of the distributor bearings. Is the needle steady
or does it bounce around? If it bounces, then maybe your distributor bearings
are at fault too. If just the cam is worn out, I strongly recommend getting a
rebuilt unit instead of replacing the just the cam, they are relatively cheap.
Burt Hill Kennewick, WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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