61-79-list-digest Tuesday, January 26 1999 Volume 03 : Number 026



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear drum help needed!!
FTE 61-79 - synthetic oil
FTE 61-79 - tailgate surprise
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Cooler
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Oilpan
Re: FTE 61-79 - 302 carb problems
FTE 61-79 - 400/460 swap in '79 4x4
FTE 61-79 - I need WHEELS!
FTE 61-79 - '67 tally
FTE 61-79 - Kroil
RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Oilpan
FTE 61-79 - 67 tally
FTE 61-79 - Goofy question ...
FTE 61-79 - Dist
Re: FTE 61-79 - Goofy question ...
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dist
FTE 61-79 - Door shells
RE: FTE 61-79 - 240 cu. in.
FTE 61-79 - Dist
FTE 61-79 - Tranny Lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
FTE 61-79 - Rear brake drum removal
Re: FTE 61-79 - Mail List
Re: FTE 61-79 - Mail List
FTE 61-79 - 292 Valve Cover Leak
FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250
Re: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250
RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil
Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50wt. Tanny Lube Debate
FTE 61-79 - Varner Gets Into the 90's
FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko
RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil
Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50wt. Tanny Lube Debate
RE: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
RE: FTE 61-79 - reman parts-kinda long
Re: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250
Re: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250
FTE 61-79 - bolt in oil pan?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400/460 swap in '79 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - Door shells
RE: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Cooler
Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko
FTE 61-79 - lubricants&fluids
Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko
Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko
FTE 61-79 - Hot August Nights
Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50wt. Tanny Lube Debate
FTE 61-79 - Re: Political Rant - Fire Extinguishers
FTE 61-79 - 360-390 Pistons
FTE 61-79 - dipstick

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:45:07 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear drum help needed!!

At 02:56 PM 1/22/99 , you wrote:
>It seems that drums for my '65 are over $100!!!
>That is crazy. does anyone knoe what makes them different from other years
>with a 9" axle?
>I wonder what else is interchangeable or easy to swap out?

If they are that much, probalby something is different, but here's what I
can think of :

check the pad width, too wide and the backing plate will hit the drum, too
narrow and the gap will be too big (pad hanging out even)

diameter, the maximum diameter of the inside of the drum should be stamped
on it somewhere, so that will be easy to check.

lug spacing, obviously can't use one that's designed for a smaller bolt circle

finned - not really a big deal whether it has cooling fins or not, just
less prone to fading if you have them ... though not sure how effective
they really are, that's what the claim is.


Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:28:19 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - synthetic oil

Well, I goofed up and lost two digests over the weekend without having read
them, so I apologize for possibly covering ground again and not keeping up
my end of the conversation.

Changing your oil religiously and changing the filter at every oil change
is a no brainer given IMHO regardless of whether you are running $.50 oil
or $12.00 oil. Even long ago when the manufacturer's reccommendation was to
change oil every 5K and the filter every 10K, my dad always changed both
between 3500 and 4K. Also every time you change the oil you lube every zerk
fitting on the vehicle. Anyway, that's the way I do it.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:32:44 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - tailgate surprise

As I have mentioned, I have my tailgate off and in the garage for
refinishing. Not long ago we discussed bedliners and other options. I have
a bed mat that has seen long acceptable service. Friday I was stopped at a
traffic light during very high wind with the open tailgate pointing into
the wind. All of a sudden there was a bang and the truck shook. I thought I
had been rear ended. The wind had caught my bed mat and thrown it up on to
the cab. Relief!! No major damage and my bed mat is now secured to the
floor at the rear.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:38:32 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Cooler

At 04:58 PM 1/24/99 , you wrote:
>I need some transmission cooling/engine cooling info, don't think it'll be
>too difficult. Anyway, I have a 79 F150 460 4x4 with a 3 spd C-6. My
>tranny fluid keep getting REAL hot, and burning up, breaking seals. The
>tranny coller seems to be hooked up - 2 lines come from it to the middle
>of the bellhousing. Could it be faulty? Or is it attatched wrong?
>
Are you running your lines against or really near to the exhaust ? I would
check for places that the heat may be getting into the system such as this
... what kind of shape is the tranny in ? maybe its slipping and creating
so much heat the cooler can't dispel it ?



>My other question is about the radiator, which I just had recoinditioned.
> It doesn't seem to want to cool very well, sometimes it does, others it
>doesn't. Could it be that my ignition and timing are off so bad that it
>cools bad too? Or is it the pressure cap? I have a new water pump on
>it, and the hoses are fine. Also, the two fittings at the bottom of the
>radiator, what are they for?
>
Have you checked the thermostat ? A sticky one of those can do this too ...

As for the two line fittings at the bottom, that's for your standard
transmission cooler, since you have an external it shouldn't be necessary I
wouldn't think ... though maybe someone else knows for sure ...




Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:39:08 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Oilpan

At 04:50 PM 1/23/99 , you wrote:
>Milodon makes a stock replacement oil pan for the 58-71 390-428. It's
>available from PAW for $86.95 + shipping. They also make a deep sump 8 qt.
>4X4 pan for $269.95.
>
Hmmmm.....seems a bit steep, but are these chromed or anything ?


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:42:10 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 302 carb problems

>the 77. She fires right up now. The problem that I'm
>having now is she idles real fast and when I put it in
>gear it stalls out. I've tried to mess with the idle
>screws with no luck. I'm sure I have a vacuum line
>hooked up wrong or something, but I really don't know
>where I need to hook those up. Is there something out
>there that makes it bone stupid for someone like me?

Have you set the idle down with the idle set screw (the one that holds the
accelerator linkage up just a bit usually) ? That should lower the idle ...

Then I'd check the choke ... is it closed tightly all the time ? That can
kill your power real quick if its warmed up (not to mention gas mileage).

Also check the timing with the vaccuum advance disconnected (and plugged) ...

Probably not a good idea to drop it into gear if its idling real fast ...
now that I think about it, mess with the choke first, its possible that the
choke is closed and so you're running at the fast idle ...

Lettuce know what you find ...


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:35:58 -0600
From: Jim Stewart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 400/460 swap in '79 4x4

I have a '79 F250 4x4 that started life with a 300-6, and now has a
400M/manual trans. in it. This truck is used for general farm chores, so
I'd like to have all the torque I can get in it. I have a re-built 460
sitting on a stand that I would like to put in this truck. I've done a fair
amount of research on what needs to happen to make this work, and it
appears I just need to spend a lot of money. At this point I'm mostly
concerned with the exhaust system and clutch. I'd like to hear from anyone
who has found a way to do either with out spending big bucks for the
aftermarket conversion stuff. I want to keep the exhaust system inside the
frame. I've been told I can take factory parts from other Ford vehicles
(Torino clutches...) and make them work, but I'd like to hear from someone
who's actually done this and driven the results. Anyone willing to share
their experience would be welcome. Thanks.



Jim Stewart
Sr. Account Manager
Kansas City Regional office
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:41:36 -0500
From: adam.hicks ppctx.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - I need WHEELS!


I know this is a shot in the dark, but I've been looking EVERYWHERE
for a set of the factory allow wheels off pre-96 Fords... the ones
with the holes in 'em. Don't care if they're polished or not. My
'77 460 is looking GREAT, but still has the ^&%$# factory pyramid
looking wheel covers over b*tt ugly steel wheels. I've looked and
looked. I'll drive 200 miles and pay more than they're worth if
anyone has any leads!

Thanks!
Adam Hicks
Ft. Worth, TX
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:49:57 -0500
From: "Parsons, Raymond"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '67 tally

Thom B wrote: >..........I am conducting a little informal survey on how
many FTE members
>have 1967's and whether or not it's "Holly Green" like mine.

I have a 67 F250 C/S that has over 400k on the frame (engine currently has
20k since rebuild). Even though this truck seems to be the "red headed
stepchild" when it comes to finding parts, I will drive it until it will go
no more! By the way, it was green over white, but the previous owner
painted it all white.
Ray
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:14:58 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Kroil

You post: >> If anyone
is interested I can check the can to see who makes this wonderful crap

Whats the hold up?????? You know we're all interested!!!!!!!!! Post the
Info...

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:52:48 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil

Kroil can be found on the following web page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.kanolabs.com/

Thanks
John MacNamara

ESN 495-2536

> -----Original Message-----
> From:am14 daimlerchrysler.com [SMTP:am14 daimlerchrysler.com]
> Sent:Monday, January 25, 1999 7:15 AM
> To:61-79-list Ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 61-79 - Kroil
>
> You post: >> If anyone
> is interested I can check the can to see who makes this wonderful crap
>
> Whats the hold up?????? You know we're all interested!!!!!!!!! Post the
> Info...
>
> Azie
> Ardmore, Al.
>
>
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:55:55 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Oilpan

Nope they both have that gold irridite finish that Milodon always puts on.

- -----Original Message-----
From: William S Hart
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Oilpan


>At 04:50 PM 1/23/99 , you wrote:
>>Milodon makes a stock replacement oil pan for the 58-71 390-428. It's
>>available from PAW for $86.95 + shipping. They also make a deep sump 8 qt.
>>4X4 pan for $269.95.
>>
>Hmmmm.....seems a bit steep, but are these chromed or anything ?
>


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:00:16 -0500
From: "Mike & Carrie Elmer"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 67 tally

If '69's count in tally mine is rangoon red(lower)and what ever they called
the off white(upper) Mike Elmer

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:59:00 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Goofy question ...

At 09:55 AM 1/25/99 , you wrote:
>Nope they both have that gold irridite finish that Milodon always puts on.
>
This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is this finish ? Are we
actually supposed to want that look ? I mean its fine for performance only
vehicles, but if we want to show something off can you just paint over it ?
Never actually messed with it, but just wanted to know ...

Bill
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:22:17 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dist

Boon 40 writes: >>Hey Guys,
Can i swap my distributor from my 78 400 to my 70 model 460? The 460 has
points and i want to use my jacobs ignition system on the 460. By the way, the
jacobs system does not do what it says it will do. Don't waste your money on
one

The 351M/400 dist will fit and work. It is not set up for the 460, so it will
not work as well as one for the 460 will work.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:26:51 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Goofy question ...

I've never tried to paint it, I think it's kind of a cool look but I can see
your point. I've never used one of their oil pans but I bought a flex plate
from them one time and it had that same finish. It looks sorta like cadmium
plating but doesn't have that greenish tinge to it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: William S Hart
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:03 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Goofy question ...


>At 09:55 AM 1/25/99 , you wrote:
>>Nope they both have that gold irridite finish that Milodon always puts on.
>>
>This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is this finish ? Are we
>actually supposed to want that look ? I mean its fine for performance only
>vehicles, but if we want to show something off can you just paint over it ?
> Never actually messed with it, but just wanted to know ...


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:47:42 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dist

By "set up" are you talking about the mech adv weights & springs? Do you
think that the cam profiles are that much different on a stock 400 and a
stock 460? Even if they are I'd be willing to bet the stock distributors all
come out of the same place and are setup identically. Every aftermarket dist
I've ever seen listed has EXACTLY the same part# listed for 351C-460.

- -----Original Message-----
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 8:25 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dist
>
>The 351M/400 dist will fit and work. It is not set up for the 460, so it
will
>not work as well as one for the 460 will work.
>


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:52:38 -0500 (EST)
From: jdklaers mailhost.magicnet.net (PredFan)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Door shells

I've heard that there were companies that manufactured door shells. So far
I've only heard of two companies but they only go as far back as '73 for
Fords, which doesn't help me and my '71.

Anyone know of other sources?

John
'71 F-100 Flare-side


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:52:19 PST
From: "b hp"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 240 cu. in.

Subject: FTE 61-79 - 240 cu. in.

I have worked on my 240 |6 and a 230 Chevy |6. The 240 is stock but the
230 has some modifications. I hooked up with a friend of mine who is a
little older and wiser..he was racing |6 s in the 60s. He showed me
some tricks of the trade. You can custom make intake manifolds and
configure them to whatever carbs you want. He showed me a set-up that
was running 3, 1 barrel SU carbs. He said the trick with individual
carbs was to put a balancing tube across through the individual
manifolds. But, he said that you could hook up a 4 barrel if you wanted
to. This is assuming you have access to some steel fabrication tools.
The exhaust manifold was custom made and split the exhaust into a dual
exhaust [ fairly straight forward ]. If you look inside the manifold
ports you may see a large lump of cast that holds the head bolts. He
said you can grind this out and counter sink a hex bolt through the
bottom of the head..this way you are not obstructing your ports. Also
polishing the exhaust and leaving the intake rough is another
suggestion, but if you have an extremely short intake you can smooth it
offbut there is no real need. You can get cams for this motor..I didnt
get a lot of info on this. He said they would grind their own cams. I
can get you an address..asap..I will have to go digging for it. Also,
ditching the fan assembly and hooking up a thermostat controlled
electrical fan can help. He said the most important thing is that if you
up the gas flow then you have to free up the exhaust. The best part
about |6s is that they are short stroke motors so you can rev them
fairly high.

Just some thoughts.have fun


>>I would like to make a high performance(for an I6) engine. I was
>>thinking of putting on headers, an electric fuel pump, and a 2bbl
>>carburetor

Bruce
65 Mercury F-100 (M-100??) 2WD P/U 240 |6


______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:11:04 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dist

Brook Bearden writes: >>Someone on the list posted that a 400 dist would
interchange with a 460
dist. This is not the case as the deck heights are different! A 351C,
429, and a 460 all use the same dist. 351M and 400 use a different dist.


I can show you two of them in operation. One is 351M the other is 400. Both in
460's and functioning.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.



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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:16:34 PST
From: "Don Jones"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tranny Lube

>>So, I'll return tomorrow and purchase the 50 weight engine oil and
>>replace whatever is in the tranny. It definately shifts tough in
>>the cold weather.

The decal on the Glove box door on my parts truck ('70 f-250, np435,
t-24) reads "Truck Lubrication Transmission and transfer case" Summer
50wt motor oil...winter use 30 wt motor oil if hard shifting is
encountered.

I am using #40 motor oil in my transfer case. The local Shell
Distrubutor only sells #50 motor oil in 20 litre pails.
It really does shift much easier now. I havent Changed the oil in my
tranny yet (t-18) I'll probably do that in the spring.

Don Jones
1985 f-150 supercab (under a *ton* of snow)
1970 f-250 4x4 ~Fordzilla~

______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:19:03 -0600
From: "Michael Masse"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search

Speaking of 460 4x4 oil pans, I was recently at a junkyard and came =
accross a 70ish E350 w/ 460. The problem is that the entire front =
suspension had been removed, so that the only thing holding the van up in =
the front was the oil pan. I don't know how long it had been sitting =
there, but are these pans THAT hard to find, that it would be worth the =
effort of trying to get this pan, or should I just keep looking? =20

Mike
'78 Bronco Custom


Michael R. Masse -Department of Medicine
Voice: (608) 263-0341 -University of Wisconsin
Fax: (608) 262-6743 -600 Highland Ave J5/220 CSC
mrm medicine.wisc.edu -Madison, WI 53703

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.medicine.wisc.edu/~mrm



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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:24:28 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear brake drum removal

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post about rear brake drums. It turns out that I didn't
have those weird nuts that hold the drum on. I sprayed a little penetrating oil, backed the shoes all
the way off, and used a hammer to loosen the rear drum. It came right off. I haven't fixed the
brake yet it looks like the wheel cylinder is leaking and I have to order one.

Just in case any one is interested, here is a brake (pun intended) down of wheel cyl. cost (each):

store cost ($) comment
Local NAPA : 41+tax next day delivery
JCW: : 30+10SH rebuild kit is $5 plus $6 SH
Mac's : 21+5SH
LMC truck : 40+tax


Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:55:33 PST
From: "Joe Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Mail List

Could you please take me off the Ford 61-79 Mailing list. Thanks
Joe Freeman


______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:13:16 PST
From: "Joe Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Mail List

>From owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com Mon Jan 25 11:02:21 1999
>Received: (fordtruc localhost) by ford-trucks.com (8.8.5) id NAA07259;
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(EST)
>X-Authentication-Warning: ford-trucks.com: Host f230.hotmail.com
[207.82.251.121] claimed to be hotmail.com
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>X-Originating-IP: [152.205.175.43]
>From: "Joe Freeman"
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Mail List
>Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:55:33 PST
>Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> Could you please take me off the Ford 61-79 Mailing list. Thanks
>Joe Freeman
>
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:26:16 -0000
From: "Jeff Carver"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 292 Valve Cover Leak

In my quest to eliminate the oil leaks on my '64 292,
I removed the right valve cover, cleaned up and
re-installed. Just a lot of grunt work to clean up.
The left side presented a problem as this truck has
a power brake booster cannister close to the valve
cover preventing the cover from coming up, AND
an airconditioner pump preventing it from coming
forward.

So I had to remove the A/C pump and shift it out
of the way, and also had to remove the throttle linkage
as it prevented the cover from being removed too.

All went well until I started to clean the head.
There is a .050 or more step in the machining of
the surface the cover mates to! Of course it's in the
worst location, forward surface towards the bottom.

No wonder the engine is coated with oil. I wouldn't
expect the cork seal to function properly.

BTW this engine has been in the truck since the early
70's and is the second engine. Painted red, if I
remember and the few remaining flakes on the
valve cover were red.

Can I clean, clean, clean and JB Weld the surface
and flat file?

Will JB Weld hold up in this area? Another
type of sealant to fill the gap?

I used Permatex #2 against the cover and grease
on the engine side of the valve cover.

Jeff
'64 F100 CrewCab 292 Auto/AC/PB


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:36:34 -0600
From: "Michael Masse"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250

I just came across a 75 F250 4x4 w/ a 460 for sale for only $400. All of =
the drivetrain stuff works, it's just the cab and bed that is shot. This =
truck has been used exclusivly as a snow plow vehicle for a number of =
years and the salt has taken it's toll. This solves the oil pan problem I =
just posted a few minutes ago. He said he would sell the engine out of it =
for $250. I think it would be worth the extra to just buy the whole thing =
if I can throw my M block in there, because it would be an excellent tough =
truck competition contender. I know L&L makes the mounts so that I can =
put the 460 in my Bronco, but are there any mounts available so that I can =
throw my M block in the F250? Just out of curiosity, was the 460 an =
option on 75 F250's or would this had to of been swapped in? =20

Mike
78 Bronco Custom


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:52:35 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250

I know L&L makes the mounts so that I can put the
>460 in my Bronco, but are there any mounts available so that I can throw my
>M block in the F250? Just out of curiosity, was the 460 an option on 75
>F250's or would this had to of been swapped in?
>
It would not have been a factory option for a 4x4 in 75 ....

as for the motor mounts, is there a reason you can't just take them from
one truck and put them in the other ??? Sort of swap them with the motor ?


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Trucks/truck.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:14:37 -0500
From: TracyJones cinergy.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil

> ----------
> From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com[SMTP:am14 daimlerchrysler.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 10:14 AM
> To: 61-79-list Ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Kroil
>
> You post: >> If anyone
> is interested I can check the can to see who makes this wonderful crap
>
> Whats the hold up?????? You know we're all interested!!!!!!!!! Post the
> Info...
>
> Azie
> Ardmore, Al.
>
Azie,
Another person has already posted the info so check the archives.
If you can't find the post, let me know.

Tracy

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:21:22 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50wt. Tanny Lube Debate

Yo Gang:

This thread has carried several peculiar items and some falsehoods, so I
feel like I should throw in a few notes and comments on this subject. And
no, I'm not a chemist, but I play one on TV....

SHill48337 aol.com (Burt Hill) asserts:
>I hate to bring this up but, engine oils use a different
>viscosity numbering system than the gear oil. It just
>so happens that Engine SAE 50 is the same
>viscosity as Gear SAE 90.

This is not true. SAE 50 is not the same as SAE 90. SAE viscosity grades
are specified by the SAE J300 standard for all lubricants. SAE J300
specifies that the viscosity index is measured with ASTM Method D 2270,
regardless of the chemical composition of the lubricant base stock (natural
or synthetic) or the intended application (engine or gear). The main
lubricant characteristic determined by SAE viscosity grade is the
performance under various temperature conditions.

What distinguishes engine oils from gear oils is the API service
designation of the lubricant. (Part of the API service designation is the
SAE viscosity grade.) The API service designation for gasoline engine oils
is "S" and for diesel engine oils is "C." The API service designation for
gear oils is "GL." The other major type of automotive lubricant is
automatic transmission fluid (ATF), and standards for ATF performance are
specified by the OEM automobile manufacturers (GM specifies Dexron and Ford
specifies Mercon, which are the two current standards).

The API service designation specifies all the performance characteristics
of the lubricant for each application. Each lubricant manufacturer
develops its own proprietary additive package (i.e., chemicals added to the
lubricant base stock) to meet the API specifications.

>The reason Ford and others say to use SAE 50
>engine oil is that the gear oils have a sulfur
>compound that you can smell and it attacks the
>bronze and brass parts in the tranny.

The smell comes from the sulfur-phosphorus anti-scoring additives used in
all modern gear oils that meet API GL-3, GL-4, or GL-5 specs. These
additives are more important in axle gear lubricants than in transmission
lubricants. There is no evidence that these additives "attack" bronze and
brass parts. In fact, resistance to copper corrosion is part of the
specification for both GL-4 and GL-5.

There is an API GL-1 specification for "truck manual transmission"
applications that allows straight mineral oil, and that seems to coincide
w/ the Ford recommendation to use SAE 50 engine oil. Even though the S
classification (engine oil) additives would be mostly superfluous in a
transmission application, the SAE 50 oil would probably meet the overall
GL-1 criteria.

bolero accessnv.com (Dale Blanchard) asserts:

>Real gear oil is hard to get anymore so SAE 50
>i OK the difference is gear oil and hypoid oil.
>the later has a chemicalce that prevents galling
>at high loads in rear ends. the same stuff makes
>synchro mesh tranys not to work rite.

I assume that Mr. Blanchard is referring to GL-1 as "real gear oil." There
are API service designations for various types of gear systems, including
hypoid gears. BTW, the term "hypoid" refers to the physical design of the
gears (hyperboloidal pitch), not to a specific characteristic of the
lubricant. The ring and pinion gears in Ford truck axles are a hypoid
design. Some lubricants are specifically designed for hypoid gears (GL-4
and GL-5), while others are not.

The bottom line is that using a GL-4 or GL-5 lubricant on the straight-cut
gears in a transmission is probably overkill. Furthermore, if the Ford
manual specifies SAE 50 oil and you use SAE 90 (or higher), you are using a
lubricant w/ too high viscosity for the specification. Since viscosity is
defined simply as the internal friction in a fluid, excess viscosity causes
more friction, which will manifest as more heat generated in the
transmission and more energy consumed in the drivetrain. Excess viscosity
could conceivably cause other problems as well, such as higher than
designed fluid load on synchronizers and resistance to flow through small
passages, which might even cause lubricant starvation in some bearings.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:30:33 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Varner Gets Into the 90's

Hey Stu,

I see where ol' Marino had to drag you kicking and screaming into 90's by
getting you set up with a PC at home!

Send me a message so I can update my address book!

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:30:42 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko

Is Marko still out there???

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:48:34 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil

Once again the url for the kroil stuff is www.kanolabs.com. i bought a can
myself and it does work.

Thanks
John MacNamara

805 477 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:TracyJones cinergy.com [SMTP:TracyJones cinergy.com]
> Sent:Monday, January 25, 1999 12:15 PM
> To:61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:RE: FTE 61-79 - Kroil
>
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com[SMTP:am14 daimlerchrysler.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 10:14 AM
> > To: 61-79-list Ford-trucks.com
> > Subject: FTE 61-79 - Kroil
> >
> > You post: >> If anyone
> > is interested I can check the can to see who makes this wonderful crap
> >
> > Whats the hold up?????? You know we're all interested!!!!!!!!! Post
> the
> > Info...
> >
> > Azie
> > Ardmore, Al.
> >
> Azie,
> Another person has already posted the info so check the archives.
> If you can't find the post, let me know.
>
> Tracy
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:23:51 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50wt. Tanny Lube Debate

>gears (hyperboloidal pitch), not to a specific characteristic of the

Love the new word :) We always learned it was just a hyperbolic pitch...


I'm a man- Possum Lodge, The Red Green Show
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:22:20 -0500
From: TracyJones cinergy.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search

> ----------
> From: Michael Masse[SMTP:mrm medicine.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:19 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
>
>
> Speaking of 460 4x4 oil pans, I was recently at a junkyard and came
> accross a 70ish E350 w/ 460.
snip

> Mike
>
In my lengthy search for a rear sump pan I had seen many dozens of 2wd
trucks and vans and every one had a front sump pan. If the E350 did in
fact have a rear sump pan I'd try to latch onto it. BTW I bought a new
FORD Motorsport rear sump pan kit for my '79 F250 4x4 swap that is marketed
as a Mustang big-block swap pan kit. It will set you back $160 and also
comes with a new dipstick. Works great.

Tracy
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:33:25 -0500
From: TracyJones cinergy.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - reman parts-kinda long

> ----------
> From: Drew Beatty[SMTP:dcbeatty rmi.net]
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 1999 1:51 PM
> To: 'Ford Truck List'
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - reman parts-kinda long
>
snip

> I found out the company who
> does the rebuilding-- Cardone Industries out of Philadelphia.
snip

> Drew Beatty
> dcbeatty rmi.net
>
Hi Drew,
I'm glad to hear you got satisfaction out of Cardone.

I won't bore everyone with the details, but after my steering gear horror
with them, I swore over a 12 pack that I'd never, EVER use another part
reman. by Cardone.

Tracy


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:48:47 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250

In a message dated 1/25/99 11:42:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mrm medicine.wisc.edu writes:


option on 75 F250's or would this had to of been swapped in? =20 >>
Definite swap, I think 75 the biggest engine you could get was still the 360,
all though maybe a 390 went in.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:02:07 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '75 4x4 F250

>Definite swap, I think 75 the biggest engine you could get was still the 360,
>all though maybe a 390 went in.
>
I just got a 390 out of a 76, so I would guess that was available in 75 too ...

Bill (WiSH)

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:00:25 EST
From: Boon40 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - bolt in oil pan?

Dear Friends,
I am about to install a 70 model 460 into my 78 4x4. When i pulled the
oil pan, i found a small bolt in it. The bolt has a 9/16 head, with a flange
instead of washer. It has an " E" and some grade marks stamped on it. It is
about 5/8 long. I cannot find where it came from. The engine was supposedly
running when pulled from the Lincoln. The bolt was in good shape, not stripped
or mangled or anything. Can anyone tell me where this came from?
Thanks,
Concerned Boon
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:47:30 -0500
From: j arnold
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400/460 swap in '79 4x4

When i put the 429 in my '79 F-250 2WD, i used a 390 flywheel, and heavy
duty 11 1/2" clutch. Used the bellhousing from the 351M that was in the
truck before the 429. You can get the 11 1/2" clutch from Ford, cost i
believe $80 or so, but don't quote me on that, i may be way off. All of
this assuming you have a NP435 or T-18, my drives fine. Shifts strong, and
with the heavy duty clutch in there, i feel alot better about towing a
load. The exhaust on the other hand can be a little tricky. Are you
planning on running duals? do you already have duals? a muffler shop
should be able to take your existing exhaust, cut the very tip of it off,
and weld in a new piece to mount up to your 460 manifold. I just had a
whole new exhaust put on, since it had the factory single enhaust with the
351M and i wanted true straight duals. Hope this helps

- -Bud
'79 F-250 429 Police Interceptor, T-18
'76 F-100 302, 3-speed (For Sale)

At 08:35 AM 1/25/99 -0600, you wrote:
>I have a '79 F250 4x4 that started life with a 300-6, and now has a
>400M/manual trans. in it. This truck is used for general farm chores, so
>I'd like to have all the torque I can get in it. I have a re-built 460
>sitting on a stand that I would like to put in this truck. I've done a fair
>amount of research on what needs to happen to make this work, and it
>appears I just need to spend a lot of money. At this point I'm mostly
>concerned with the exhaust system and clutch. I'd like to hear from anyone
>who has found a way to do either with out spending big bucks for the
>aftermarket conversion stuff. I want to keep the exhaust system inside the
>frame. I've been told I can take factory parts from other Ford vehicles
>(Torino clutches...) and make them work, but I'd like to hear from someone
>who's actually done this and driven the results. Anyone willing to share
>their experience would be welcome. Thanks.
>
>
>
>Jim Stewart
>Sr. Account Manager
>Kansas City Regional office
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>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:28:11 -0500
From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Door shells

Mac's Antique Auto Parts has them for $59.25 and are for the '67-'72. I
think they are one of the advertisers of this site.

Later,

- -Ted
- -----Original Message-----
From: PredFan
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:53 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Door shells


>I've heard that there were companies that manufactured door shells. So far
>I've only heard of two companies but they only go as far back as '73 for
>Fords, which doesn't help me and my '71.
>
>Anyone know of other sources?
>
>John
>'71 F-100 Flare-side
>
>
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>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:45:07 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search

When I did my last 460 swap, I just went to the dealer and bought a pan for
a van and paid something like $85. Has anyone bothered to call the dealer
to see if you can still get the pan for the van model?


Thanks
John MacNamara

805 477 2536 wk
805 577 2768 fx
ESN 495-2536
jmacnam nortelnetworks.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From:TracyJones cinergy.com [SMTP:TracyJones cinergy.com]
> Sent:Monday, January 25, 1999 1:22 PM
> To:61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:RE: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
>
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Michael Masse[SMTP:mrm medicine.wisc.edu]
> > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:19 PM
> > To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> > Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
> >
> >
> > Speaking of 460 4x4 oil pans, I was recently at a junkyard and came
> > accross a 70ish E350 w/ 460.
> snip
>
> > Mike
> >
> In my lengthy search for a rear sump pan I had seen many dozens of 2wd
> trucks and vans and every one had a front sump pan. If the E350 did in
> fact have a rear sump pan I'd try to latch onto it. BTW I bought a new
> FORD Motorsport rear sump pan kit for my '79 F250 4x4 swap that is
> marketed
> as a Mustang big-block swap pan kit. It will set you back $160 and also
> comes with a new dipstick. Works great.
>
> Tracy
> >
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:49:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Cooler

Thanks man. Well, the thermostat on my truck is new, so I don't know
really what is wrong. My truck is misfiring a lot, so that could be some
of the problem, and I think the original cap is on teh radiatior. I took
it up on some logging trails today, and had to reverse up one real steep
muddy hill, and it almost overheated completely when I reached the top.

> > At
04:58 PM 1/24/99 , you wrote:
> >I need some transmission cooling/engine cooling info, don't think it'll be
> >too difficult. Anyway, I have a 79 F150 460 4x4 with a 3 spd C-6. My
> >tranny fluid keep getting REAL hot, and burning up, breaking seals. The
> >tranny coller seems to be hooked up - 2 lines come from it to the middle
> >of the bellhousing. Could it be faulty? Or is it attatched wrong?
> >
> Are you running your lines against or really near to the exhaust ? I would
> check for places that the heat may be getting into the system such as this
> ... what kind of shape is the tranny in ? maybe its slipping and creating
> so much heat the cooler can't dispel it ?
>
>
>
> >My other question is about the radiator, which I just had recoinditioned.
> > It doesn't seem to want to cool very well, sometimes it does, others it
> >doesn't. Could it be that my ignition and timing are off so bad that it
> >cools bad too? Or is it the pressure cap? I have a new water pump on
> >it, and the hoses are fine. Also, the two fittings at the bottom of the
> >radiator, what are they for?
> >
> Have you checked the thermostat ? A sticky one of those can do this too ...
>
> As for the two line fittings at the bottom, that's for your standard
> transmission cooler, since you have an external it shouldn't be necessary I
> wouldn't think ... though maybe someone else knows for sure ...
>
>
>
>
> Just my 2cents
>
> Bill
>
> Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
> '73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Trucks/truck.html
> '96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Cars/mustang.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


- --
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:13:26 +0000
From: "MARK DAVIES"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko

I dont know if this was directed at me, so Im responding anyway
because my name is Mark and my buds call me Marko if it wasnt im
sorry,if it was then i have nothing to be sorry about right!!
anyway, the last few days have been relatively warm - 2 to -7 deg
celcius so I've been to the bone yard a couple of times and working
on my 2 babies my 78 f-150 and my 69 mach1 fastback.I like checking
the scrap yards out you seem to see alot of things in retired but not
yet buried old trucks little options and things guys have faricated
up I found in a 78 camper special a hood latch that had a cable that
goes into the cab to open it you have to put a key in it and turn it
then pull the handle to unlatch the hood I found a key that worked so
I hooked it up in my truck and it worked great for a week until i
broke the cable I guess you shouldnt wash vehicles when its 30 below
out.Anyway was this a option on these trucks ,does anyone know where
i can get a replacement I was just going to change the cable but it
is a one piece deal with the handle unless i drill the rivets out and
make something else work if anyone knows what im talking about please
let me know.. I also lucked out today i was rummaging through a old
ford van and there were some parts in the back I stumbled across a
alternator it seemed very clean and new looking so i spent the 10$
and took it home I pulled it apart and everything was new it didnt
even have a scratch on the brushes kinda a bonus for 10$ when to top
it off I needed a new alternator for my truck so i hooked it up and
it works just beautiful..anouther quick question, I dont even want to
bring this oily subject up but im gonna , I live in Northwestern
Ontario,Can and it gets bloody cold here i changed tranny fluid when
I first started restoration on my truck its a 78 f-150 manual
4spd.351m/400 I used Rotella 80w90 gear oil because it was free.I
have trouble when its cold out firstgear and reverse hard to get in
and shifting from first to second is a little grind what should i use
50w oil? anything as long as it helps and it doesnt leak out... any
ideas????


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:19:59 +0000
From: "MARK DAVIES"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - lubricants&fluids

Everyone has been talking about
oil,oil,oil,mineral,synthetic,gear,etc. Im kinda wondering about my
service manual I use 80w90 gear oil in my tranny and it seems to be
to heavy.Some of yous have been talking about 50w mineral oil in man
transmissions seems logical my manual says to use sae 140w gear
oil(ford no.ESO-M2C83-C) in all manual transmissons and transfer
cases is this a heavier oil than 80w90? i would think so I dont know
what to use? it goes on to say use sae90w gear oil in dana and ford
(non locking)differentials.Dana limited slip add friction modifier
and ford traction-lok use sae90w gear oil(ford no. ESW-MZC 119-A) NOTE.
DIFFERENT PART # whats the diff between sae90w and sae90w doesnt seem
much different to me !! someone enlighten me on this ...
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:19:04 -0800
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko

Mark:

snip
I found in a 78 camper special a hood latch that had a cable that
goes into the cab to open it you have to put a key in it and turn it
then pull the handle to unlatch the hood I found a key that worked so
I hooked it up in my truck and it worked great for a week until i
broke the cable
snip

I have one of those locking hood cables in my 79 E 350 Van. I haven't
tried to fix it (it isn't broken) but one should be able to replace
the cable with something comparable possibly out of a late model hood
release.

Tim Bowman
71 F100
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:22:00 -0800
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's Marko

Mark:

snip
i changed tranny fluid when
I first started restoration on my truck its a 78 f-150 manual
4spd.351m/400 I used Rotella 80w90 gear oil because it was free.I
have trouble when its cold out firstgear and reverse hard to get in
and shifting from first to second is a little grind what should i use
50w oil?
snip

50w is the oil specified by Ford. There's been a lot of traffic on
this topic in the last week. My truck has the same symptoms and I
intend to change the oil sometime this week and put in the 50w.

Take a look at the archives if you want to read the thread.

Tim Bowman
71 F100
Burien, WA
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:39:31 -0800
From: Art Verling
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hot August Nights

Darrell
Sounds like fun. When the time gets here I would be happy to help find
places for others to stay. Lodging gets pretty crazy during the event.
This will be the first year that I am going to get involved in the
event. How do we get the FTE behind this event?
Art Verling
AV ix.netcom.com
64 F100

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:06:32 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50wt. Tanny Lube Debate

In a message dated 1/25/99 12:27:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Dave.Resch sybase.com writes:


>I hate to bring this up but, engine oils use a different
>viscosity numbering system than the gear oil. It just
>so happens that Engine SAE 50 is the same
>viscosity as Gear SAE 90.

This is not true. SAE 50 is not the same as SAE 90. SAE viscosity grades
are specified by the SAE J300 standard for all lubricants. SAE J300
specifies that the viscosity index is measured with ASTM Method D 2270,
regardless of the chemical composition of the lubricant base stock (natural
or synthetic) or the intended application (engine or gear). The main
lubricant characteristic determined by SAE viscosity grade is the
performance under various temperature conditions.
>>
At the risk of making more out of this than it is worth. You are absolutely
right about the methods, but once the viscosity is establish in SSU at the
required temperature by D2270 you now simply have only the viscosity. The
(grading, rating, or what ever term you apply) for applying engine oil and
gear oil wt is different and 50 wt engine oil is approximately the same
viscosity as 90 wt gear oil. Anyway I am off tomorrow with my Wife two
daughters and two granddaughters for 2 weeks in Disney World.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:12:51 -0800
From: "Jim Cron"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Political Rant - Fire Extinguishers

In response to Darrell's report of the guy with the vehicle fire, I sure
hear you about the difficulty in getting some help. It has gotten a lot
worse since I was younger, imho. I can't add more on that, I thought you
put it pretty well.

But about fire extinguishers. I had one in my F-250 when my F-600 caught
fire. I had a failed gas line (hose) at the carb and the top of the intake
manifold was a burning puddle of gas. I ran over to the other truck and got
the extinguisher, it gave a good squirt and was done. Engine still burning.
We were working near a school and I ran over to get an extinguisher while my
associate hauled shovels of dirt off the back of the truck (we were hauling
topsoil) and dumped it on the engine. He only had a little spading shovel
so lots of trips made in a big hurry. I was nearly dead by the time I got....


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