61-79-list-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 03 : Number 022



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?
FTE 61-79 - oil pan/dipstick location FE 4x4's
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear brake drum removal
FTE 61-79 - 352 vs. 390
FTE 61-79 - Re: Calling all 1967 Owners
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: FTE's 2nd anniversary
[none]
FTE 61-79 - Yet more questions
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dura Spark II
Re: FTE 61-79 - 352 vs. 390
FTE 61-79 - GOOD PRICE OR NOT?
FTE 61-79 - Ignition prob ?
FTE 61-79 - Re: Fuel Problem
Re: FTE 61-79 - So many trucks!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition prob ?
FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Calling all 1967 Owners
FTE 61-79 - 390 short block
Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Yet more questions
FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search
FTE 61-79 - Can I trust remanufactured engines?
FTE 61-79 - Lift Kits
FTE 61-79 - 64 Leaf Spring Bushing Replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50 gear lube
FTE 61-79 - Re: Synthetic Oil
FTE 61-79 - FE engine parts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition prob ?
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE engine parts
FTE 61-79 - Question about Unibody truck
FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest Wheels Needed, '64 Stock
FTE 61-79 - Re: Better than Liquid Wrench?
FTE 61-79 - Re: 352 vs. 390
FTE 61-79 - motor Q & A
FTE 61-79 - 460 Starter
FTE 61-79 - Congratulations
Re: FTE 61-79 - So many trucks!
Re: FTE 61-79 - motor Q & A
FTE 61-79 - FE engine parts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Congratulations
FTE 61-79 - Vacuum Lines?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question
FTE 61-79 - Yes, it is time for Congrats
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 Starter
Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Question about Unibody truck
RE: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch
Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question
FTE 61-79 - radials vs bias ply
FTE 61-79 - synthetic oil
FTE 61-79 - Rear drum help needed!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 352 vs. 390
Re: FTE 61-79 - motor Q & A
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 352 vs. 390
Re: FTE 61-79 - GOOD PRICE OR NOT??
Re: FTE 61-79 - 240 cu. in.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:05:10 -0500
From: TracyJones cinergy.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?

> ----------
> From: jeffd[SMTP:jeffd cari.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 11:36 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?
>
> Kroil.
>
Absolutely magical stuff!! I've seen this stuff remove fasteners that you
knew that there was no way in H*ll they were going to break loose. Comes
in an orange spray can but I've never seen it for retail sale. If anyone
is interested I can check the can to see who makes this wonderful crap.

Tracy
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:11:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: FTE 61-79 - oil pan/dipstick location FE 4x4's

The pics of my FE 360 4x4 stock oil pan with a dipstick in the side are back
from the developers. Who wanted them?? Snail mail is all I got for a while.

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:29:12 -0000
From: "Jeff Carver"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear brake drum removal

Bryan -

I, too, had problems removing the rear drums from my '64.
They hadn't been removed in a long time.
I got all the bolts removed, but it was still stubborn.

I took apart a small three jaw bearing puller and the
width of the puller arms was such that I could get it
between the drum and backing plate. Then I rotated
it 90 degrees to apply constant pressure to the stuck
parts. CAUTION, those pullers are under a load and
the slightest jostling caused them to snap back and
fly out. I then got a hammer to bounce on the drum
in a rhythm going to allow the penetrant to get into
the joints. After a while the drum popped off. I was
looking the other way when it hapened, and it didn't
land on me either, cause it would've hurt!

I don't know if the backing plates are the same thick
plates as in '64, they should be. I tried this trick on
a VW, but the backing plate flexed too much.

Jeff
'64 CrewCab
** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
Good thing about the internet is ya'll can't laugh at me in person for asking this.

According to the Ford shop manual, to remove the rear brake drums on a 66 F100,
remove the hub cap, lug nuts, tire, THREE TERNNAN NUTS then the drum. I can't find
anything close to three nuts. Do I go ahead and start trying to pry off the drum after the
tire is off? I don't believe the brakes have been worked on in quite a while and think the
cylinder may be leaking.
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: rositch SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 352 vs. 390

You didn't say who you are, but yes, all of your 352 accessories will
bolt right onto your new 390. Just did this myself last August. I
don't know many people who can even tell a 390 from a 352 without
measuring the bore.

Good Luck,
Don Rositch
'66 F250 NASCAR Shop Truck
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:39:03 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Calling all 1967 Owners

Greetings:
As many of you know, I am relatively new to the FTE list in the last few
months. I have enjoyed my "truck hobby" for well over ten years now. I own a
1967 F-250 4WD (among others). I was inspired by the many FTE members' web
pages so I created my own to focus, not only on my truck, but 67's in general.
I recently added a page link for the VIN Codes. My page is still evolving but
I would appreciate feed-back on how to improve it. Also, I am conducting a
little informal survey on how many FTE members have 1967's and whether or not
it's "Holly Green" like mine. Please e-mail me privately as I don't know if
Ken or the other members would appreciate this type of mail traffic on the
list. Thank you.

~~Thom B~~
1967 F-250 4wd
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/tbeeee/page/index.htm
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: rositch SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: FTE's 2nd anniversary

Congratulations, Ken! Looking forward to as many more years as you will
give us!

Much Appreciation,
Don Rositch
'66 F250 NASCAR Shop Truck
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:42:30 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: [none]

Colorado Jeff writes: >>Where's Sleddog when you need him....

Try the performance list. He's on it.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:00:41 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Yet more questions

>> Secondly, I'm wondering if anyone knows how, or a place that can, take
the plastic dash bezel for the instrument cluster of a '66 F-100 and
restore it to its original luster. The coating is real dull and most the
places I have found that have one want $400.00 for it. I have the Custom
Cab panel with separate gauges.


Perhaps you can have it rechromed like a bumper? If you are not quite the purist, you
could sand the bezels down and paint them with chrome paint.
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:01:13 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dura Spark II

>1978 Ford F-150 351M Symptoms: Runs good at 16 below but runs ragged at 40
>and rainy until completely up to temperature. Voltage at coil with engine
>off/ignition switch on was 8 volts. With engine running was 12 volts. Gone
>through 3 coils in 5 years. Would appreciate any help.

Hmmm...it shouldn't be 12 volts I don't think, sounds like the ballast
might be out ? I don't know for sure, but the other problem you describe
is symptomatic of a leaky connection. It sounds like the box might be
letting the dampness in, you might try a different box and see if things
improve. Since at 16below its pretty dry (the air that is) and at 40 and
rainy its pretty moist, I'd bet that you are just getting condensation in
there. My old GT used to do this .. actually idled at 50 RPM once! Yep,
between 0 and the first notch on the tach.

Hope this helps

Bill
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:05:49 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 352 vs. 390

At 09:17 PM 1/21/99 , you wrote:
>The biggest improovment I ever made to my 73 F-250 trailer Special was when I
>removed the 390 after the third time of burning valves and installed a 78 I-6.
>After almost 200k it is still going, but it needs paint and a new steering
box.
>
I've heard those are great engines, but I don't think his valve covers and
accessories (much less motormounts and transmission) will bolt up to that
quite as easily ...



>Michael Linnane wrote:
>
>> When I replace the 352 in my 1967 F-250 Camper special can I use a 390
>> long block. Will my valve covers, oil pan, brackets and everything else that
>> gets transfered from my 352 to the 390 long block fit together alright? Will
>> the motor mounts be the same? I would hate to spend $1800.00 on a 390 only
>> to find out I can not use all of my 352 accessories.
>>

Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:17:17 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - GOOD PRICE OR NOT?

>i found a 69 ford f100
>a/c
>3 spd transmision
>264 s-6
>new starter original bed need re done
>decent paint job(red)
>engine rebuilt and has 10,000 miles on it
>tires under 10,000miles
>$3500
>PLEASE HELP I'M ONLY 14 AND DON'T WANA GET RIPPED OFF i like the way the
>step side 53-70 model's look but i have seen several late 70 early 80 model
>chevy's and fords w/ V-8's and some other stuff for around the same price.
>My bro said the old ones are really easy to work on and hold up good, i want
>an old one but if i'll be better of w/ an 80 please tell me,
>thanx for all your help!
>
Jeffrey, I hope you will get more than just my opinion on this so you can
tell, but I think $3500 is a bit high for this truck. It's hard to tell
for sure without seeing the truck but it sounds like this is a pretty plain
jane truck. I would want to get a Ranger or at least a Custom Cab for that
money. It would need to be in top-notch mechanical condition to be worth
that. By the way the engine is most likely a 240, or possibly a 300.

I am thinking more like $2500.

I would take some time to shop around and get an idea of what trucks of
similar year and condition go for in your area. I might be wrong, perhaps
$3500 is reasonable where you live, but it seems high to me if I am right
and the truck is a "base" model.

Hope this helps.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:25:17 -0500
From: "Parsons, Raymond"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ignition prob ?

Hey guys:
I finally have the fuel tank back in my 67 F250 and got it running again. It
is amazing how much junk can accumulate in a fuel tank. I now have a
problem that I have isolated to the #5 cylinder; when it is idling I hear a
small "pop" coming from the exhaust that goes away when I disconnect the #5
plug wire. I checked the plug and it is firing and is gapped correctly.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Ray
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:34:42 -0500
From: "Parsons, Raymond"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Fuel Problem

Azie: Thanks for the offer; I had mine repaired (boiled, flushed and new
pick-up tube) for $100.

>> the truck is a 67 F250 C/S, and yes it is the in cab
tank. Unfortunately, the pick up tube is welded to the top of the tank! I
am taking it in to have it repaired; I know I do not want to try welding on
a tank!
Ray
Azie wrote>> Don't blame you for not working on it if it is welded. I have
an "in cab" tank with the fuel line and float intact that I will give you,
and It "ain't" welded. I'm located in North Alabama, 2 miles East of I-65
right on the Tennessee State Line. Can't ship gas tanks, so you will have
to have it picked up, if you are interested. The tank is from a '74 F-250
4X4.
Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:44:05 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - So many trucks!

At 11:00 PM 1/22/99 -0800, you wrote:
>We just joined the digest version and we can't believe how many Ford
>truckies are out there. We're in the South Island of New Zealand and
>you can count all the ford trucks around here on one hand! There are
>some further down South, mainly earlier than ours, we,ve only found 3
>'75's. No such thing as a truck-get-together here. We have a '75 F100,
>351 interceptor with a 3" lift kit. She runs on dual fuel - petrol and
>LPG (liquid petrolium gas - I don't know if you guys have that) Drive
>anywhere within a 400 mile radius and she turns heads everywhere. Parts
>are an absolute curse, we've found one place approx 700 miles away -
>after reading all your bits and pieces my hubby wants to up and move to
>the US. At the moment our truck's in the shed with most of her bits all
>over the place - a bit of a rebuild going on. Anyway, we just wanted
>to say hi to everyone and let you all know F100's live .... even 'down
>under!'
>See ya.....Wayne and Vicki

Hello! The honor of furthest distance traveled to the F100 Supernationals
last year went to someone from New Zealand so you're not alone. If you
want, I can try to look up their email address.

Ken

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:44:40 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition prob ?

>small "pop" coming from the exhaust that goes away when I disconnect the #5
>plug wire. I checked the plug and it is firing and is gapped correctly.
>Any suggestions?

When you checked that it was firing, was that hooked up to the same plug
wire it normally uses? Just a thought that maybe your wire is not so good ?

Bill
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:02:32 -0800 (PST)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question

On a starter relay, does it matter which of the big terminals
go to the battery, and which to the starter? I know one
small terminal is the relay coil and the other small one is
another contact. I am guessing this one goes to the coil,
bypassing the ballast resistor while cranking? It looks to
me like, when the contact closes, all three terminals are
connected together.

Anyway, one of my trucks has the relay mounted with the larger
square side up and the other has it down. And the battery
cable is on the contact facing the front on both cases. Which
way is it supposed to be?

Mark in Southwest Washington
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:14:10 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Calling all 1967 Owners

At 08:39 AM 1/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings:
>As many of you know, I am relatively new to the FTE list in the last few
>months. I have enjoyed my "truck hobby" for well over ten years now. I own a
>1967 F-250 4WD (among others). I was inspired by the many FTE members' web
>pages so I created my own to focus, not only on my truck, but 67's in general.
>I recently added a page link for the VIN Codes. My page is still evolving but
>I would appreciate feed-back on how to improve it. Also, I am conducting a
>little informal survey on how many FTE members have 1967's and whether or not
>it's "Holly Green" like mine. Please e-mail me privately as I don't know if
>Ken or the other members would appreciate this type of mail traffic on the
>list. Thank you.
>
>~~Thom B~~
>1967 F-250 4wd
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/tbeeee/page/index.htm

I wouldn't mind, I have a 67! Ragoon Red.
Ken

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:22:46 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 short block

Michael Linnane writes: >>When I replace the 352 in my 1967 F-250 Camper
special can I use a 390
long block. Will my valve covers, oil pan, brackets and everything else that
gets transfered from my 352 to the 390 long block fit together alright? Will
the motor mounts be the same? I would hate to spend $1800.00 on a 390 only
to find out I can not use all of my 352 accessories.

The 390 will bolt in for your 352. All FE's share common bore spacing, common
intake mounting, common bellhousing bolt pattern, common head mounting. This is
the easiest way to gain torque and hp from the smaller displacement FE's.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:35:28 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question

>On a starter relay, does it matter which of the big terminals
>go to the battery, and which to the starter? I know one
>small terminal is the relay coil and the other small one is
>another contact. I am guessing this one goes to the coil,
>bypassing the ballast resistor while cranking? It looks to
>me like, when the contact closes, all three terminals are
>connected together.
>
This sounds about right, with one upside down, just be sure you get the
coil and other wire hooked to the opposite sides would be my suggestion.
As far as the way a solenoid works, it shouldn't matter which side the
starter is on and which side the battery is on, as long as something
activates the plunger in there.


Bill
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: rositch SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Yet more questions

Bryan (and everyone else),
I have two options for you. I had the same bezel/gauge setup with very
poor chrome. I opted to get a stainless steel insert and all new Autometer
Street Rod gauges from a company called "Haneline". They advertise in the
Mustang and street rodder magazines (Morongo Valley, CA- phone 760-363-6597).
You can see my gauge setup on the list picture page (white '66 F250).
If you want to keep it stock, you can get the plastic re-plated, check
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.finishing.com/1200-1399/1304.html for several leads to plastic
plating companies.

Good Luck,
Don Rositch
'66 F250 NASCAR Shop Truck
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:39:05 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE 4x4 Oil Pan Search

If you found somebody who will take $75, and its in good shape, you might be
better off to bite the bullet and pick it up. These pans have been
discontinued by Ford, and are difficult to find. You might try to see if
Milidon or someone like this make one, they seem to make quite a few "stock"
units....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:38:54 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Can I trust remanufactured engines?

Hey John,

Well, those guys at the Ford place kind of know me now, so was able to get the
wholesale price.....I just bought it right at the parts counter, just like
another part to them. They didn't have it in stock, but there was one in a
local Denver warehouse so I had it the next day. It comes in a big plastic box
that you return. Now, when Dave R. and I get the thing running (its a luxury
to have the "M-Block Devotee" a few miles away!), I'll let you know how it
goes....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:38:59 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Lift Kits

As usual, Marino handled this, one thing I would add though....you might
consider getting the radius arm drop-down brackets to keep the caster right.
The one thing that happens if you don't do this is that the bottom plate for
the coils isn't level anymore, and your bolts go in funny. Probably doesn't
make that much difference, but Superlift seens to recommend this method....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:39:18 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 64 Leaf Spring Bushing Replacement

Hi Jeff,

I just went through this for a 78 I'm working on. I figured that since I
didn't have the press, I would dutifully take the springs to a 4x4 shop who
did. Well, when I got the springs back, the guys there had burned out the
bushings with a torch....something I could have done myself, just didn't think
of it...they charged me a bunch, and now I'm not going back there again....

I suppose that if one is careful to not heat the spring too much and is
working outside so the fumes don't get you, this isn't a bad method...

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:42:14 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SAE 50 gear lube

In a message dated 1/21/99 11:18:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, ballingr ldd.net
writes:


probably spring a few leaks if I just drained it and refilled it with
SAE 50. May try it anyway, what kind of oil did you use?
>>

I hate to bring this up but, engine oils use a different viscosity numbering
system than the gear oil. It just so happens that Engine SAE 50 is the same
viscosity as Gear SAE 90. The reason Ford and others say to use SAE 50 engine
oil is that the gear oils have a sulfur compound that you can smell and it
attacks the bronze and brass parts in the tranny. But, as you can see it does
not cause your tranny to fall apart immediately, primarily it attacks the
syncro rings and tabs making them brittle. My father who was a farmer did not
realize this and periodically changed the oils in all of his trucks trannys,
some were the big Fords. He had replaced the oil with Gear oil five or six
years before he found out the book recommended a different oil. Being
somewhat I believe stubborn he continued to use gear oil until he retired and
never had tranny problems. But he did change the oil at least every 2 years
and of course his story to me was I've always used gear lube and I do not have
problems, so there kid.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:47:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Lowell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Synthetic Oil

Hi,

Better fuel mileage may (or may not) be a by-product
of using synthetics, I've never noticed any change in
mileage, but I never paid close attention. The reason
to use synthetics (IMHO) is to prolong the life of
your engine, reduce wear on moving internals.

There is a comprehensive oil faq on the web somewhere
which I've lost my copy of, but it is worth searching
for and reading if you are interested in the topic.

Just as ancedotal evidence of the positive effects
of synthetics, you know that black tar gunky stuff
you see like on the underside of valve covers of
old engines when you pull them apart - I've never
seen that in an engine that runs synthetics - they
are always really clean. (a good working pcv system
helps here too...)

my $.02

Bob



> In a message dated 1/20/99 9:30:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> JJJJJGRANT aol.com writes:
>
>
put it in
> my
> truck, i have put about 150 miles on it so far and can't tell any
difference,
> everyone tells me to check the fuel mileage before and after.
> jeff grant >>

==
Bob Lowell
ljspop yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:33:39 -0600
From: "James Petty"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE engine parts

Where's a good place to get FE engine parts? Summitt has
intakes and cam kits... but not pistons, rings, rocker arms, ect...

Thanks !
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:59:07 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ignition prob ?

In a message dated 1/22/99 6:30:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, parsonsr denver-
rmn.com writes:


small "pop" coming from the exhaust that goes away when I disconnect the #5
plug wire. I checked the plug and it is firing and is gapped correctly.
Any suggestions? >>

When my 360 started doing that I had a burned exhaust valve. Run a
compression check, if it is good, then you might have cheaper problem to fix.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:03:10 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE engine parts

>Where's a good place to get FE engine parts? Summitt has
>intakes and cam kits... but not pistons, rings, rocker arms, ect...
>
Jeg's lists some parts, but I ended up just going through the local parts
house, they could get about everything next day.

Bill
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:07:53 -0600 (EST)
From: Robert Hill
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Question about Unibody truck

I am looking at a 63 Ford Unibody that a friend has for sale. I am not
extremely familiar with the unibodied trucks and was wondering a fw
things;

1) I assume while not extremely rare, that they are not readily available
so I wonder about parts availability for the unique areas of the truck

2) Are they considered unpopular by most truck enthusiasts? I haven't
seen any at shows

3) What is the typical value of a unibody, small rear window, 6 cylinder,
3 speed , running but needing total restoration? I know this is a loaded
question, but a ball park would do

4) Anything about the unibody that I should be aware of verses a standard
PU of the same vintage?

Thanks in advance for your help

Bob

Robert Hill
Senior Pastor
Hickory Grove Baptist Church
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://personal.vallnet.com/oldcars

God's Promise to YOU Romans 10:9-13

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:12:32 EST
From: Bobby D Herring
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest Wheels Needed, '64 Stock

>From: "Jeff Carver"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Wheels Needed, '64 Stock
>Anybody have a set (4) of stock wheels for a '64 F100
>hanging around, taking up space?
>I am in the greater Sacramento area and travel a bit.
>Jeff
'>64 F100 CrewCab
I have a whole 64 short-wide sitting. It has the stock wheels
and I think all four hub caps.

I have been trying to sell it and can't seem to drum up
much interest.

Bobby Herring
'64 F100 short-wide, 292 Y-block/3speed, motor in pieces,
make me an offer
'72 F100 400/C6 in progress
'93 Ranger V6/Auto/Super cab, 103k
'97 Explorer XLT 4.0 Auto

___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:11:44 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Better than Liquid Wrench?

I've had good luck with Marvel Mystery Oil. I've even separated rusted cab mounts with it, just let it soak.

Later,

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net


>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:30:17 -0600
>From: "J Elliott"
>Anybody here know something better than Liquid Wrench for removing the
>toughest stuck bolts?

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:10:05 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 352 vs. 390

Michael:

The 352 and the 390 are the same motor except for internals. The 390 will go in perfect, and everything will swap.

Later,

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net

>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:52:58 -0500
>From: "Michael Linnane"

>When I replace the 352 in my 1967 F-250 Camper special can I use a 390
>long block. Will my valve covers, oil pan, brackets and everything else that
>gets transfered from my 352 to the 390 long block fit together alright? Will
>the motor mounts be the same? I would hate to spend $1800.00 on a 390 only
>to find out I can not use all of my 352 accessories.


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:31:42 -0500
From: "Mike & Carrie Elmer"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - motor Q & A

Hi All,This is more a tech question than anything else.How come at most of
the Ford site's I go to and look in the engine family section,then go to FE
familys they don't list the 360 just the 390?Is it because they are
basically the same w/olny a diff.stroke.I'm confused.
As always Thanks Mike Elmer

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:43:47 -0600
From: "Brett"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 Starter

Hi, I've got a 76 F250 with a 460 and the starter is going bad. It has a
solenoid on the fender and on the starter. I'm just curious if I have to buy
a starter with a solenoid on it or I can just leave the solenoid on the
starter off. Does anyone know what the purpose of the extra solenoid is?

Brett
76 F250 4x4 with 38's

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:51:05 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Congratulations

Ken and Peggy and all my good friends here,

Thank you for all of the hard work you have put in on this list. I can
honestly say there is nothing like it in any genre on the Internet. The
diversity of communicants is unmatched by any forum on the planet. We
have just about every occupation, type of personality, and type of
experience represented here among our friends.

I had to leave the list for a while because of work(I went on a
whirlwind crusade to try to save our division, HA, HA ) and man I missed
it! It's funny, I have a mental picture of most of you and I wondered
what you were up to. Is Darrell going to take Tweety across the Grand
Canyon? Is John Strauss still fighting down in Texas? Is Azie going to
put Daimler in his e-mail address? Is Dr. Hess still scooping out
brains? Where's Deacon? Does everybody have their FE pushrods in
order?

The information and discussion on this list is as good as it gets. We
all contribute something, whether it be information or humor. Ken and
Peggy, I can't say enough about what you've done here. I hope my next
job affords me some spare time to contribute more to the list (in a
helping capacity, I don't seem to have a problem writing stuff)and
eventually to the club. I'd be looking forward to it.

Let's all hoist a beverage of choice in a toast to all of our good
friends, to Ken and Peggy's brainchild, and to our future good times.


> Someone just sent me an email asking me about FTE's 2nd
> anniversary. The earliest archived email I have is from
> January 16, 1997 and its an email asking to be removed
> from the list! I started the list two weeks prior to the
> first archiving of email so that means our anniversary
> is on January 2. With the t-shirts and web site updates
> I simply forgot.
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:10:44 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - So many trucks!

I always said that if I were to ever leave the states, it would be to go down
under. THANK YOU FOR ENDING THOSE IDEAS!!!! No Ford trucks? Id go nuts in
no time. Its crazy. I always thought there were more down there. Kinda
brings back a memory. You've all seen Road Warrior right? Remember the last
scene where those cronies sent everything the had at the tanker? Well in case
you didnt notice, but one of the VERY few trucks to drive away was a cool
right hand drive F-100. If memory serves, it was in the 73-75 range. Oh
well, now I'm gonna hafta rent it again!

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:19:30 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - motor Q & A

>Hi All,This is more a tech question than anything else.How come at most of
>the Ford site's I go to and look in the engine family section,then go to FE
>familys they don't list the 360 just the 390?Is it because they are
>basically the same w/olny a diff.stroke.I'm confused.
>As always Thanks Mike Elmer

I always wondered this too, the best explanation I can come up with is that
the 360 was never offered in cars, while the others were ?


Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:23:35 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE engine parts

I got my rings,gaskets, and rod bearings from NAPA. The brand was perfect circle and
they were a little more pricey than other places. They had to order them and it took a
day or two, but at least they didn't give me a dumb stare and say I should buy a new
truck.

Oh yeah, the first set they ordered was standard size (I think I forgot to tell em 40 over),
and they happily took em back and got the new set.

Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:23:06 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question

In a message dated 1/22/99 7:09:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,
draco pacifier.com writes:


go to the battery, and which to the starter? >>

Yes, it does matter. If you are facing the relay from the side with the two
small terminals the large terminal on the left must be connected to the
battery. You are correct that when power is put to the small terminal next
the battery connection and the relay is properly grounded it will then connect
the battery terminal to the starter and ballast by-pass terminals. However,
the ballast by-pass is energized directly from the starter terminal not from a
separate contact. So the by-pass terminal is hot only when the starter
terminal is hot. Now, if you hooked it up the way you described your truck
will work just fine until you turn the key off and it continues to run,
because the ballast will be permanently by-passed keeping higher voltage to
the points and coil. If you have electronic ignition do not worry about it.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:31:07 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Congratulations

In a message dated 1/22/99 8:56:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, ballingr ldd.net
writes:

>

As soon as I find a way to quit bendin rims, You bet your asphalt I'm gonna!

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:44:40 +0000
From: John Fletcher
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Vacuum Lines?

I need some help on vacuum line routings on my 73 Continental Mark IV
I know this isn't a truck really but I need this urgently. anyway,
would anybody have a vacuum line diagram for the 460 4-bbl. I just put
a reman carb on it after a small engine fire so I really don't know
where the vacuum lines went and I kinda just guessed on it. I lost all
the paperwork on it so that doesn't help me a bit.
Thanks,
John


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:42:30 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question

>Yes, it does matter. If you are facing the relay from the side with the two
>small terminals the large terminal on the left must be connected to the
>battery. You are correct that when power is put to the small terminal next
>the battery connection and the relay is properly grounded it will then connect
>the battery terminal to the starter and ballast by-pass terminals. However,
>the ballast by-pass is energized directly from the starter terminal not from a
>separate contact. So the by-pass terminal is hot only when the starter
>terminal is hot. Now, if you hooked it up the way you described your truck
>will work just fine until you turn the key off and it continues to run,
>because the ballast will be permanently by-passed keeping higher voltage to
>the points and coil. If you have electronic ignition do not worry about it.

Isn't the ballast part of the ignition wiring, so as long as you switch the
two plugs so they are sill on the appropriate sides you should be fine ?
the switch is still gonna cut the power, just whether its cutting 8 or 12v
when you shut it off right ?

Guess I don't understand all the circuitry in the solenoids, but I thought
it just was basically a relay, and those can be hooked up either way, as
long as you separate the control circuit from the high power circuit ...
I'm sure there's exceptions, but in the basic form ...


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:48:35 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Yes, it is time for Congrats

Well Folks,

I was sittin here readin through all this mail, adding my lil bits when
inspiration hit me. All my life I've loved Fords. Defending them to the
bitter end no matter what. Only once have I drivin a non-Ford for more than a
week, and I regret that to this very day. But enough about that. I wanted to
say thank you to all you wonderful people. I have learned so much from this
list. I thought I knew everything, ok I still do, but now its because of you
folks. I wonder if it was somethin more than chance that I stumbled on to the
site. I was stoked from the get go. Somewhere I can talk about horsepower
and not have to hear "throw a 350 in it" or "Ford? HAHAHA" We've always been
a bit of the underdog, some folks know this when they try to find ways to hop
up an FE, or a 351. But we've bonded and now we are unstoppable. We can
build a 292 that'll smoke a hemi! We can diagnose a problem at the stroke of a
key. And dare I say it, we could find a way to Drive to Hawaii to celebrate
year 3! Ok I'm getting carried away. I'm just glad that you pioneers decided
to put this together. Everywhere I go I spread the word of FTE. I've introd
new members, first person I can think of is Wayne Foy. We were talkin Fords
for awhile, and as soon as I found FTE, I mailed him a link and he was a
member tuut sweet. I'm glad I'm here, and I think some of you are too. I was
quite surprised to see my name mentioned by Mr Ballinger. Ok Time to cut this
off, but thanks to Ken, Peggy, Azie, Sleddog, Dave R, all the Bills, CO Jeff,
and Stu (cant forget Stu, NUKE GM right?) and everyone else out there. Yall
are great!

Thanks
Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:22:03 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 Starter

In a message dated 1/22/99 8:51:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
yerk0002 tc.umn.edu writes:


solenoid on the fender and on the starter. I'm just curious if I have to buy
a starter with a solenoid on it or I can just leave the solenoid on the
starter off. Does anyone know what the purpose of the extra solenoid is?
>>
The solenoid does more than just close contacts, it also engages the gear.
The other type of Ford starter essentially has a solenoid also that's what
under the cover on top. The difference is your electrical cable connects
directly to your solenoid instead of the back of starter bearing plate, which
makes sense to me. Besides, I do not think you can buy a new or rebuilt
starter without the solenoid attached. You can buy the solenoid separately
though, however. In other words you need them both. Naturally Chevy does not
do it that way, and you could jury rig it to work like a GM product because
the little terminals have always been on the 429/460 starters that I have
changed out. I stayed away from answering the why but I will speculate and
others on the list can correct me. I think Ford needed a new more powerful
starter for these engines and the solenoid offered a closed atmosphere where
the electrical contacts are located. On the other starters the contacts
frequently fail and when you disassemble them you find quanties of carbon dust
compacted in the area. So rather than completely redesign and go through the
problems of perfecting a new design I think they just borrowed the technology
already proven by GM. Works for me.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:35:47 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question

In a message dated 1/22/99 9:49:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, wish iastate.edu
writes:


two plugs so they are sill on the appropriate sides you should be fine ?
the switch is still gonna cut the power, just whether its cutting 8 or 12v
when you shut it off right ?
>>
Not exactly, the small terminal next to the battery terminal is the remote
relay coil energized from the ignition switch. (the one that makes the whole
thing work) It goes directly through extremely fine wire wrapped thousands of
times around a core to ground to provided the magnetic pull to close the
contacts and could never provide power to by-pass the ballast. Thanks, good
question.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:28:19 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Question about Unibody truck

Thanks for your message at 10:07 AM 1/22/99 -0600, Robert Hill. Your
message was:
>I am looking at a 63 Ford Unibody that a friend has for sale. I am not
>extremely familiar with the unibodied trucks and was wondering a fw
>things;

Being the proud owner of a '62 Unibody (large rear window), I can respond
quickly (or not-so-quickly) to a couple of your concerns.

>1) I assume while not extremely rare, that they are not readily available
>so I wonder about parts availability for the unique areas of the truck
The only thing I have had an EXTREMELY hard time finding is a tailgate. My
tailgate is the eyesore of my truck. Of course, even a NOS replacement
would be the eysore of the truck. For a truck that is so otherwise
stylish, the tailgate is obviously a designer's afterthought. It is so
ugly that I am going to try to find a skin to go over it and just have a
nice, generic smooth look from the rear (which is the view most people get
of the truck).

>2) Are they considered unpopular by most truck enthusiasts? I haven't
>seen any at shows
I don't know about unpopular. I find that people who know about them or
who get one, like them. There was a discussion awhile back on FTE that
surprised me in the sense that so many FTE's didn't know much about them.

>3) What is the typical value of a unibody, small rear window, 6 cylinder,
>3 speed , running but needing total restoration? I know this is a loaded
>question, but a ball park would do
Of course there are so many variables here, that even "ball park" is
difficult. Geography is one factor. I can only tell you what I paid for
mine--It is a short box, large back window with a '71 351C (rebuilt w/RV
cam), C4 , Limited slip 3.25 rear ratio, larger tires and nice wheels (I'd
have to run out into the rain to get the exact numbers). It has a faded
paint job and some very minor things I'd like done before painting (holes
to fill, etc.). You can see it on the FTE web site Pictorial. Anyway,
I paid $2300 for mine. I have been VERY satisfied, even though I did
encounter plenty of civillians (not Ford fanatics) who thought I was crazy
to pay that for a 1962 Ford pickup. What do they know?

>4) Anything about the unibody that I should be aware of verses a standard
>PU of the same vintage?
It's much more difficult to change the bed. And I wouldn't change it to a
4-wheel drive. Other than that...
they are about the slickest looking trucks Ford made (IMHO, of course).



Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:36:06 -0700
From: "Miska, Richard L (Rick)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - fuel tank switch

I know this is an old subject, but my truck has three factory tanks. One in
the cab, one long one in the middle of the truck between the frame, and one
in the very rear between the frame rails. Its a 1976 crewcab (f250-f350,
Not sure). I have the switch by the heater controls and a valve by the
drivers door. I have not used the frame tanks because I wanted to change
the electrical valve to be safe, and wanted to make sure the tanks were ok.
Is there a good way to check out the frame tanks without removing them?

Thanks, Colorado Rick

> In reponse to fuel tank switch locations. My 73 F250 has an electric
> switch
> next to the heater controls. The 73 F350 parts truck, I recently sold,
> also
> had a switch next to the heater controls as well as a mechanical selector
> just inside the drivers door. Funny thing is that the F350 only had two
> frame mounted tanks and the F250 only has one tank in the cab. All three
> would be in the F250 now but the frame mounted ones were too rusty to
> bother removing :)
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:47:26 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Starter Relay Question

>Not exactly, the small terminal next to the battery terminal is the remote
>relay coil energized from the ignition switch. (the one that makes the whole
>thing work) It goes directly through extremely fine wire wrapped thousands of
>times around a core to ground to provided the magnetic pull to close the
>contacts and could never provide power to by-pass the ballast. Thanks, good
>question.

Okay ... so as long as the wires get switched so that the ignition switch
side is connected to the correct post (if its left normally, it would be
right upside down ?), then everything will work fine ? So the big terminals
really don't matter do they, they just pass the current from the battery to
the starter (large current) when the solenoid activated ?

Just want to be sure I understand this thing ...

Bill
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:11:30 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - radials vs bias ply

Jeff,

I had a 76 GMC crew cab that had bias ply tires on the front and radials on
the back. I took the bias ply tires off and chunked them. That truck
handled great with radials all the way around. Throw a face cord of oak
firewood in the back and it almost rode as good as my Caddy. I have run
radials on several other 3/4 ton pickups and never had a problem with the
sidewalls. The real trick is to buy a tire with the right load rating.
Don't put a passenger car tire on a truck. Also, a tire will last longer if
it is speed rated. The higher the speed rating, the better the tire
dissapates heat Excess heat is what causes 90% of blowouts. An
underinflated tire generates a lot of heat fast. Ka-boom!


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:46:59 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - synthetic oil

Not to start a war, but I don't want anyone to go away with the feeling
that synthetics are used by 100% of the list members. I personally believe
that a synthetic oil is not necessary for long engine life. I run single
weight (30) Havoline in all of my vehicles year round and have for years. I
have driven many beyond the 150K mark, all V8s except for 1 V6. When I got
my current F150, it had 10W-30 Quaker State in it and it used a quart about
every 1500 miles. With the Havoline it uses less than a fourth of a quart
every 5000 miles. My 88 Towncar has 109K miles on it and I would not
hesitate to start a cross country trip in it 10 minutes from now. It uses a
half quart every 5K miles.

I am not in anyway saying don't use synthetics nor trying to discredit the
results, I just felt a different view was in order.

BTW, it is my understanding that the leak problems are manifested when you
try to go back to natural oil after having used synthetics.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:56:24 -0800
From: "sam weatherby"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear drum help needed!!

It seems that drums for my '65 are over $100!!!
That is crazy. does anyone knoe what makes them different from other years
with a 9" axle?
I wonder what else is interchangeable or easy to swap out?
Thanks,
-srw

Sam Weatherby http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://insert.com/sammy
SWeatherby UsWest.Net A-SamWe Microsoft.com
'70 Grabber Sportsroof Mustang
'93 F-150 XLT Lightning
'98 HD FXD Super Glide
'65 F100


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:31:19 -0000
From: "Steven or Montessa Moore"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?

Hi I'm steve,
there is a product called BG In Force
it is in a green and yellow can with black lettering (or was) it is an
Ionized penetrating oil

i worked for a scale company , and that stuff was the only thing i found to
work better than a cutting torch,
I could not tell you where to find It,
the company i worked for shipped it in from Kansas
Good Luck

- -----Original Message-----
From: jeffd
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?


>Kroil.
>Kind of expensive but I've seen very old, rusty Harley's and Indian
>motorcycles
>come apart after using it. Or give it a shot of penetrating oil and a tap
>with a hammer once or twice a day for a couple days and it will come apart
>easily. Most of the time,
>any penetrating oil just needs more time to work than we want to wait.
>
>Jeff
>
>----------
>> From: PredFan
>> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Better than Liquid Wrench?
>> Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 12:03 PM
>>
>> Anybody here know something better than Liquid Wrench for removing the
>> toughest stuck bolts?
>>
>> Specifically, I trying to remove the nuts on my exhaust manifold where it
>> attaches to the tail pipe.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:27:36 -0500
From: "Humanhunter (Blake Barr)"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 352 vs. 390

What about a 360/390 (no point in having a 360 when I could have a 390 w/
same gas mileage and more power)


>Michael:
>
>The 352 and the 390 are the same motor except for internals. The 390 will
go in perfect, and everything will swap.
>
>Later,
>
>Drew Beatty
>dcbeatty rmi.net
>
>>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:52:58 -0500
>>From: "Michael Linnane"
>
>>When I replace the 352 in my 1967 F-250 Camper special can I use a 390
>>long block. Will my valve covers, oil pan, brackets and everything else
that
>>gets transfered from my 352 to the 390 long block fit together alright?
Will
>>the motor mounts be the same? I would hate to spend $1800.00 on a 390 only
>>to find out I can not use all of my 352 accessories.
>
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:19:51 -0800
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - motor Q & A

William S Hart wrote:
>

> I always wondered this too, the best explanation I can come up with is that
> the 360 was never offered in cars, while the others were ?
>
> Just my 2cents
>
> Bill


For the same reason they don't normally list all of the
Lincoln/Mercury variations also. In the Y block series, the same
thing occurs with the 256 which is sandwiched between the 239 and 272
but receives little mention.

Tim Bowman
71 F100
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