61-79-list-digest Monday, June 7 1999 Volume 03 : Number 193



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Brake Lining Material
FTE 61-79 - Re:460 SWAP WON'T START
Re: FTE 61-79 - ground
FTE 61-79 - RE: Dizzy without a light
FTE 61-79 - RE: 460 cab and install - brake calipers
FTE 61-79 - RE: 460 cab and install - brake calipers
FTE 61-79 - Tranny Broken?
FTE 61-79 - I've been working on my truck ;)
Re: FTE 61-79 - timing
FTE 61-79 - Your 428
FTE 61-79 - building a 390 GT out of a 360
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 SWAP WON'T START
FTE 61-79 - Re: Hot Starting
FTE 61-79 - Re: 460 SWAP WON"T START
FTE 61-79 - Re: 460 SWAP WON"T START
FTE 61-79 - coil blues II

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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:40:30 -0700
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake Lining Material

Hi,
Someone asked what brake material seventies trucks used. In the beginning,
brake shoes were asbestos. I don't remember when they were discontinued;
but they were deemed a health hazard by the EPA. I don't think they are
available anymore even from overseas. The problem is that asbestos had
properties that were well suited for braking and other applicatons. These
properties are hard to match with other materials. One example is that
material today in shoes/disks causes skreeeeching on wet mornings where I
don't remember asbestos shoes doing that. Note: It's not a good idea to
breath in particles that contain asbestos!

Tim 66F100, SWB, P/S & O/D
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:26:20 EDT
From: ClasicCoug aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:460 SWAP WON'T START

I had the same problem with a 460 I put in my 78 F150 4X4. I purchased a
higher output starter from Power Masters out of Knoxville, TN 423-688-5953.
Cost was $159. The first one I purchased had an improperly cast case and had
to be returned out, which they did with no complaints. The second one works
great.

Darrell Drinkwater

In a message dated 6/6/99 5:05:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-61-79-list-
digest ford-trucks.com writes:


From: "The Zahn's"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 SWAP WON'T START

Hello All,
I replaced a 429 in my 71 F350 with a 460 that I rebuilt. The problem is
that it won't start. It is getting spark and gas. One problem is that when
I try to start it the starter cranks for a couple of rotations and then get
slower and slower. It sounds like a dead battery so I kept charging it but
the same results. I tested the battery and it checked out ok under a load
so then I thought that it might be the starter so I got another one and it
does the same thing. All of the cables seem to be hooked up and the timing
is very close as far as I can tell. It won't turn over long enough for me
to check it with a timing light but I know that the piston is on a
compression stroke and the rotor is pointing at the #1 cylinder. Could it
be so tight that the starter doesn't have the power to turn it over? I
don't know. Any advise from all of your experiences would help.
Thanks,
FredZ
>>
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 10:26:31 -0600
From: richlars ibm.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ground

Finding bad grounds is one of my pet peeves. I run a BIG ground cable form the
battery to the engine and then make a grounding terminal of sorts somewhere on
the frame not far from the grounding point on the engine. I then run another
good sized cable from the engine to this terminal and then another (smaller #10)
from the terminal to a 6 point terminal block on the cab that I use to ground
any accessories I install. Overkill maybe but I dont spend hours chasing bad
grounds any more.

Van ster wrote:

> I was wondering if anybody ever had any problems with the engine not
> grounding the rest of thier truck? The reason I ask is about 10 times in
> the last 6 months I get into my truck and the interior light, radio,
> starter, headlights, (everything) is dead. My battery is a brand new
> Interstate, brand new cables, new solenoid on fender. I can slam the doors
> a couple times or let the clutch snap back and eventually everything comes
> back to life, and the truck will turn over. It's never died while driving.
> The big question is: Could I be loosing ground somewhere between the engine
> and frame? Is there a ground strap between the two and if yes where? I
> have my volt meter sitting on the front seat and when it does it again I can
> determine if the cab has any +or-. Thanks!!!
>
> Brian
> 77 F250, 351M
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.com
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:27:04 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Dizzy without a light

That's how I usually do it, even with a light.

George Selby
78 F-150 400M, 4 on floor, 4x4
IsuzuG prodigy.net

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:30:49 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: 460 cab and install - brake calipers

I went to both Autozone and Advance, and reman calipers are 9.99, and the
master cylinder was 14.99. So cheap I had to replace them all last week
when I found I had a broken bleeder screw.

George Selby
78 F-150 400M, 4 on floor, 4x4
IsuzuG prodigy.net

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:30:49 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: 460 cab and install - brake calipers

I went to both Autozone and Advance, and reman calipers are 9.99, and the
master cylinder was 14.99. So cheap I had to replace them all last week
when I found I had a broken bleeder screw.

George Selby
78 F-150 400M, 4 on floor, 4x4
IsuzuG prodigy.net

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:40:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford76 webtv.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tranny Broken?

I was on the highway cruising along and felt like going a little
faster so I stepped on the gas and downshifted into second(it won't do
it by itself anyway) and I was flying shifted back into drive and the
truck died:-( Pulled over and it started right up but reverse and all
forward gears are gone. There was never and still is no noise I will
look at it closer when the tow truck gets hear. What did I do? I hope I
just blew up the torque converter or do I? It is a C6 tranny.

Julia MacLaren
76 F250
460
Hollied

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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 12:34:25 -0700
From: Don Grossman
Subject: FTE 61-79 - I've been working on my truck ;)

I posted some pics for everyone to see the current condition of my
truck.

I was going to do a simple little thing like install a new set of
headers and one thing leads to another.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon

should get you there

Right now the plan is for new front springs, fix hole in frame, new
motor mounts, inner fenders, different steering box (78 F-250 4x4),
finish the engine compartment wiring, and lots and lots of little
things.

Laters

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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 16:57:21 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - timing

> Actually they work together, to give you total advance.
>
> Bas van der Veer wrote:
> >
> > >Not necessarily, the only difference between ported and non ported should
> > >be idle conditions, everywhere else you will have the same vacuum ...
> >
> > I thought the vacuum advance is only needed in case you suddenly step on
> > the gas, it'll temporarily advance the vacuum so it does not hesitate. Then
> > as the rpm increases the centrifugal thing takes over.


When you are at cruising speed, the vacuam advance comes back in. When
combined with initial and centrifugal advance, it will improve your
highway economy dramatically. When you jump on the gas, the vacuam
advance goes away, that's where having enough initial and an agressive
enough centrifugal curve (all in by 2500 rpms) comes into play. Power
in certain conditions depends on how well the timing combination is
dialed to the combination of compression, fuel, gearing and weight. Too
much timing, compression, weight, too tall a gear, or low octane fuel,
and you get pinging.
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Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 18:24:08 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Your 428

> or trade. I have a 427 with a 428 crank, I have a CJ long block, and I am
> thinking of parting with my 428 to install a diesel.

What kind of shape is the 428 in? I might be interested in a real good
one, no blowby or rattles you know. Where are you from?
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 18:33:01 -0500
From: "commodore"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - building a 390 GT out of a 360

Hi I have a 1971 360 and I want to make a good 390 out of it. I bought a
pair of 390 GT heads (C7AE, C6AE) and bought a new 390 crank and rods. I am
looking for ideas for a cam and carb for this engine. Also looking to get an
idea of the Hp I can turn out of it. It is going in a 71 f-100 with a 72
truck C-6 and a 3:73 rear end. I might pull a trailer with it once in a
great while. I want some good get up and go and to have a nice mild rumble
from it. Please post any ideas or you can E-mail me at commodore uswest.net
Thanks Paul

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:15:48 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 SWAP WON'T START

In a message dated 6/5/99 7:12:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
us5zahns earthlink.net writes:


to check it with a timing light but I know that the piston is on a
compression stroke and the rotor is pointing at the #1 cylinder. Could it
be so tight that the starter doesn't have the power to turn it over? I
don't know. Any advise from all of your experiences would help.
Thanks,
FredZ >>
Several List members have responded with some good thoughts. I would pull
the plugs and see if the starter will spin it over. If it will not and
solenoid and connections are good then something inside is too tight dragging
the engine down. If it does spin then maybe the heavy duty starter is what
you need.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Lee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Hot Starting

John,

Also try to reduce your carb float level. Cool gas in
the float bowl could expand and flood when warmed in
the carb.

Dan Lee
'53 F100
351C-4V


>I will address it further this weekend. I am
leaning>towards the carbperc
>scenariobecause sometimes I do smell gas
and>sometimes it behaves as though its
>mildlyflooded.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Lee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 460 SWAP WON"T START

Fred,

Pull the plugs and try to crank with a charged
battery, if it turns OK let it crank for as long as
possible. If its still hard to crank, better start
looking for something wrong.

Dan Lee
'53 F100
351C-4V



I replaced a 429 in my 71 F350 with a 460 that I
rebuilt. Theproblem is
that it won't start. It is getting spark and gas.
One problem is thatwhen
I try to start it the starter cranks for a couple of
rotations and thenget
slower and slower. It sounds like a dead battery so I
kept charging itbut
the same results. I tested the battery and it checked
out ok under aload
so then I thought that it might be the starter so I
got another one andit
does the same thing. All of the cables seem to be
hooked up and thetiming
is very close as far as I can tell. It won't turn
over long enough forme
to check it with a timing light but I know that the
piston is on a
compression stroke and the rotor is pointing at the #1
cylinder. Couldit
be so tight that the starter doesn't have the power to
turn it over? I
don't know. Any advise from all of your experiences
would help.Thanks,FredZ

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 01:25:09 EDT
From: Rollie H Hunt
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 460 SWAP WON"T START


>One problem is thatwhen
>I try to start it the starter cranks for a couple of
>rotations and thenget
>slower and slower. It sounds like a dead battery so I
>kept charging itbut
>the same results.

You may have some excess friction in the ring to cylinder contact area
from lack of lubrication and the oiling system needs to be primed also .
Take the plugs out and put some oil in each cylinder and turn it over a
few times while the plugs are out , then put them back in . I have seen
an engine tighten up and bog down after excessive cranking without
starting ( was not the battery or lack of oil on the bearings ) . The
only way to get it loosened back up was to put a little oil directly into
each cylinder .
Hope this helps .

Rollie .

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:37:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel DiMartino
Subject: FTE 61-79 - coil blues II

well, i figured out my electrical problem(s) on my '68
f-250. seems the airforce didn't want any trucks on
the flight line (mine was an aircraft boarding ladder,
now deplete of ladder see pictoral) running without
anyone at the controls. SO they added this nifty
little kill switch, hidden in the dash, that shut off
the motor whenever it was put in park...
oh, what a pain in the butt, that, a few bad grounds
and what looked like a rats nest under the dash from....

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