61-79-list-digest Tuesday, June 1 1999 Volume 03 : Number 185



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4 ton
[none]
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS
RE: FTE 61-79 - 77Ford Van
RE: FTE 61-79 - 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4 ton
FTE 61-79 - Re: Problem with new master cylinder?
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS
FTE 61-79 - 4412
FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump
FTE 61-79 - Problem with new master cylinder?
FTE 61-79 - Re: Jacobs Headlight Brightener
FTE 61-79 - Re: books on rebuilding a 390
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: FOLLOW-UP
Re: FTE 61-79 - 4412
Re: FTE 61-79 - Direct Injection
FTE 61-79 - Braking issues
Re: FTE 61-79 - Direct Injection
Re: FTE 61-79 - Braking issues
Re: FTE 61-79 - 2v adjustment
FTE 61-79 - 77 ac refrigerant amount
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Disc Brake Swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 Gas Mileage
FTE 61-79 - Time to Do Steering Linkage...

=======================================================================

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:56:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford76 webtv.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4 ton

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1. Make sure the lines are not near any heat source. 2. Make sure the
gas cap is the breathable kind. 3. An electric fuel pump will take care
of it. (ZUK ON)

Julia


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From: "Sky"
To:
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4 ton
Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:15:26 -0500
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Hi there y'all, I'm new to the list...I bought a 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4
with Cleveland engine. Overall everything is very good, though there are a
couple of things giving me some problem. Hopefully, I can find my answers
here.

There would appear to be a vapor lock problem when the outside temperature
gets up, say, above 80-85 degrees then it starts to lose power and dwindles
in speed down to around 25-35 mph if I do not try to give it gas (if I do it
dies, but starts right back up). If I pull into a gas station and, while it
is running, hold a water hose on the fuel pump for 10-15-20 seconds it's
good to go for (depending on outside temperature) from a few to several
miles. Last summer with the exceptionally high heat it was really bad.
Everyone I've spoken with have all come up empty with any real solid answers
and, strangely enough, have offered some very weird solutions, from wrapping
tinfoil to putting clothespins on the fuel line!

Second thing is that while it has two main gas tanks it also has a
rectangular third, or saddle, tank in between the other two. While this
might be great for a long trip giving me around a thousand mile range it is
most peculiar for there is no fill cap, and it would appear that the in and
out lines are gravity fed from one of the other tanks. There is no way to
determine how much gas is in it. All dealers and mechanics I've spoken with
just scratch their heads in amazement. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Sky




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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 05:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: chinacat sun
Subject: [none]

I would be really interested in the
pasngerside headlight door and rear
side marker lights

"Forest V. New" wrote:> >
> Its been a while since Ive posted anything but thought I would
letlist
> members know that I just purchased a 1970 f-100 for parts. It has
anice
> grill with good inserts, and factory air. I mainly need the cab
andbed for
> panel repairs on my truck, so if you need something let me know.>
Forest New
> racer23 mindspring.com> > 72 Ford XLT> 69 MACH 1 Mustang> 89 Ford
Ranger XLT
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Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:49:48 EDT
From: ICEMAN1952 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS

What is the web site address?
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:04:15 EDT
From: ICEMAN1952 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS

Sorry but I deleted your reply by mistake, please send the web address again
for the new club.
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:08:59 -0500
From: "Sky"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 77Ford Van

Al: how can I verify if this is a Cleveland? Also, it kinda sounds like
there really is no such thing as a vapor lock (under normal
circumstances)..that it is dependent upon other factors out of whack. As to
the 3rd gas tank, tapping on the tank verifies liquid but in driving I
really can't tell any difference in mileage between the front or the
back..which is the strange part, one would think the back would carry much
further. Thanks
Sky

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Al Evitts
Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 1:11 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 77Ford Van


Sky: First off I have never seen a Ford Van with a cleveland Engine.
Havent seen a vapor lock since a 49 Fleetline Chevy I had used to do
this. Check Fuel filter, replace pump, or check lines for crimps. I
had a tank setup similar to yours on a pick/up Rear tank also fed the 3d
tank so I just kept it on rear tank till it was close to running out
then switched to the front tank. Gauge showed the third tank as being
part of the rear tank. If you dont have use for it take it out. I
can't imagine the bill to fill up all three tanks.

If you really think you have avapor lock problem, go to an electric
pump. FWIW

Al
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:12:06 -0500
From: "Sky"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4 ton

Hi Julia, ok, we'll look into those. I'm not sure about the gas caps, both
are the same lockable type. Checking the lines and gas caps (line
restrictions) and electric fuel pump seem to be a recurring consensus here.
btw, pardon my ignorance but what is (ZUK ON)? Thanks,
Sky

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ford76 webtv.net
Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 6:57 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 Ford Club Wagon Van 3/4 ton


1. Make sure the lines are not near any heat source. 2. Make sure the
gas cap is the breathable kind. 3. An electric fuel pump will take care
of it. (ZUK ON)

Julia


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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Problem with new master cylinder?

Erik wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>> ... This way front and rear brakes start applying at the same
>> time. Does that sound right?

> well...maybe.. The proportioning valve is responsible (if it's
> working) for front to rear brake balance.

Yes, but I think brake balance and brake timing are two different
things. I have heard people attribute this function to the prop.
valve, but AFAIK it meters fluid for the front calipers, has the
switch for front rear pressure difference, and controls front/
rear balance.

>> ... To my mind this means the MC is good.
>> Is this a good assumption?

> I would think so,, It's what all of my fords have done

Maybe I am being too critical, comparing the pedal to the one in
the 2WD F-250. It also had much larger brakes and better stopping
power which might contribute to the difference in feel. Gary also
mentioned a difference between his Bronco and his 2WD truck.


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:34:34 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS

At 09:49 AM 5/31/99 -0400, you wrote:
>What is the web site address?

Go to the Ford Truck Enthusiasts web site and click on the scrolling
information on the top right of the screen.

Ken Payne
Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:21:30 PDT
From: "b hp"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 4412

Does anyone know what the standard settings would be (or a starting
point)for the air/fuel mixture screw a Holley 4412? I am assuming turn them
in until the engine starts to run rough and then back out 2 and half turns?
The plug colour is a dark tan and but the engine (351W) is flooding or
bogging when it gets sudden acceleration. I realise it could be many things
I am just trying to get a good starting point.

Thanks

Bruce
65 Mercury M-100 2WD P/U 240 |6


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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:16:04 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump

One like the Carter street pump listed in the Summit catalog - 72 gph, 5
psi. Basically you just want the lightest pump you can get, not the
race/strip/hd one. Make sure it can go down to 5 psi or so or you will
blow out the float on the carb. (Or get a seperate pressure regulator)

George Selby
78 F-150 400M, 4 on floor, 4x4
IsuzuG prodigy.net

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:25:04 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Problem with new master cylinder?

Well, I'm going to throw my two cents into this brake discussion.

With the engine OFF, when you depress the brake pedal, it should travel down
to a hard firm stop that you can't pass no matter how hard you push. You
should be able to pass your foot underneath between the pedal and the
floorboard and it should clear while you are wearing a shoe. If your foot
won't pass, something is wrong with the hydraulic system. When you start the
engine, you should feel the brake pedal go a little farther down because the
power system magnifies your foot pressure, but it should still stop firm and
hard. Any mushiness doesn't belong.

Mark, I think that you still have air in your system. Bleeding brakes takes
two people or a one man bleeding kit. The person pressing the pedal for you
should use slow firm strokes and the bleeder should close the valve before
the pedal hits the floor. If there is any pause, air gets sucked back in. I
always bleed the farthest wheel first, go to the closest, then go back to
each again. drive a few miles, then bleed them again. Don't let your
reservoir run dry or you have to start all over.

The best clue that yur master cylinder is gone is your brake behavior at a
stop light. You stop just fine, but as you sit there, your truck starts
creeping and you have to pump the brakes. Time to put on a new master
cylinder, don't wait for the warning light.

One other thing can cause a vehicle to pull to one side during braking. If
you get fluid on the shoe or pad (ever put the wheel cylinder cups in
backwards? I did the first time) then that wheel will grab. A minor spill
will eventually cook out. A soaked friction surface needs to be replaced.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http//www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:39:26 PDT
From: "MARTY COLMAN"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Jacobs Headlight Brightener

That looks alot like the tech ariticle "Whiter whites, Brighter brights" (or
something to that effect) at the FTE site. But the Jacobs is already wired
for you and the "Whiter whites" one is not. The "Whiter whites" one is
about $15 or so for materials, I'm sure the Jacobs one will be alot more.

- -Marty


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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Lee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: books on rebuilding a 390

Jeff,
I am not going to tell you that Autozone or any other
auto store ever sold a bad engine, but I will tell you
that those places are run by accountants whose
interest is the Bottom Line, ROI (Return on
Investment) and Dollar Volume. They are OK for oil and
filters and new aftermarket parts, but I hesitate when
I have to purchse something that has been
remanufactured from any of them.

If your old block and heads are in decent shape take
it to a local automotive machine shop, where the guy
whose name is on the door is doing (or at least
overseeing) the work. At least he knows what +30 mils,
RPM, and CFM mean, and he is going to be there in one
year if you have any problems. Not so with those other
places. When you go back with a problem there is a
whole new staff, and the supplier they purchased your
unit from is out of business.

It is a good idea to find a good book on the subject
even, if you don't do it yourself. I don't know of any
on the 390 in particular, but I have bought books from
Peterson in the past and have been satisfied. Do a web
search or try Amazon.com. Good Luck

Dan Lee
'53 F100
351C-4V

>Subject: FTE 61-79 - books on rebuilding a 390
>Anyone know of any good tech booksfor the fe series
>big blocks .Also has anyone
>had any experance with the Autozoneremanufactured
>engines you can buy a
>390 for around 1,200.00 with a oneyear warrenty im
>trying to decide if i
>should build it myself or pay to have itdone or by a
>remanufactured engine
>thanks Jeff L


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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:49:54 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: FOLLOW-UP

This is a follow up of the announcements I made earlier.

I just want to make it clear that as always, FTE is free
and shall continue to operate as a free service. Membership
in the club (AFTE) is not required to be a member of FTE.

Additionally, the club is completely independent of FTE.
FTE merely licenses its trademark names to AFTE and also
provides Internet services for AFTE. I do not sit on the
board of AFTE for obvious conflict of interest reasons.
I'm sure Don Neighbors, the president of AFTE will make
some sort of announcement on behalf of the club later on.

Ken

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:31:13 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 4412

Bruce wrote...

> Does anyone know what the standard settings would be (or a starting
> point)for the air/fuel mixture screw a Holley 4412? I am assuming turn
them
> in until the engine starts to run rough and then back out 2 and half
turns?
> The plug colour is a dark tan and but the engine (351W) is flooding or
> bogging when it gets sudden acceleration. I realise it could be many
things
> I am just trying to get a good starting point.
..................

I think you're supposed to turn the mixture screw in all the way (be
gentle so you don't damage the seat), then back it out 2 1/2 turns.
At what altitude do you normally drive the truck? All carbs are shipped
for sea level operation. If you're at a high altitude then the accerator
pump and power valve circuits should be leaned out a bit, as well as the
main jets.
You may want to consider buying a book "Super Tuning and Modifying
Holley Carburetors" by Dave Emanuel. (ISBN #0-931472-08-3)


Danger
danger csolutions.net





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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:40:56 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Direct Injection

>>>>
>
>Ford is working on this also. One added benefit if direct injection is
>there is no need for a starter. The computer looks at crank position,
>piston position, then sends a shot of gas at the proper cylinder and
>sparks it off. Starts the whole thing a spinning.

I keep hearing this, but I still don't believe it.... those sensors can be
just one more thing to go wrong, not to mention starting an engine for the
first time ... how's it decide which one's on the exhaust stroke and which
one's on the compression stroke ? I'm sure it can all be done, and I love
technology as much as the next guy, but its gonna be a while before I have
confidence in this sort of setup.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:52:25 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Braking issues

>Mark, I think that you still have air in your system. Bleeding brakes takes
>two people or a one man bleeding kit. The person pressing the pedal for you
>should use slow firm strokes and the bleeder should close the valve before
>the pedal hits the floor. If there is any pause, air gets sucked back in. I
>always bleed the farthest wheel first, go to the closest, then go back to
>each again. drive a few miles, then bleed them again. Don't let your
>reservoir run dry or you have to start all over.
>

I have tried those one man bleeder kits and I can never get things quite
tight enough for my taste, but then again I don't have any system of brakes
that actually suits me, they all have downfalls (maybe when I pull the ABS
from my 'stang I"ll change my view) ... anyway I was bleeding some this
weekend for another project and couldn't get it to hold right, the guy
suggested bleeding it with the cap on ... no idea why, he just said the
instructions said to use it ... a couple more shots with the cap on, and
they were great ... I don't know why the cap makes a difference, but it
seemed to in this case ... just be careful not to let the system run dry I
guess...



>The best clue that yur master cylinder is gone is your brake behavior at a
>stop light. You stop just fine, but as you sit there, your truck starts
>creeping and you have to pump the brakes. Time to put on a new master
>cylinder, don't wait for the warning light.
>
Hmmm... my clue has always been that when I hit the brakes nothing happens
... the brake light is always on on my truck, even when everything is
practically new, so we just pulled the bulb ...


As a side note, on Friday night I was showin off my new motor to a friend
and I happened to notice a spot that didn't look dusty on the inside of the
right wheel (wheel turned to left) ... that seemed odd since I live on a
gravel road, so I looked a little closer, there was a break in the outside
of my brake line! Fortunately the inside hasn't broken, but it looks like
it might be oozing a little, so I took the truck home that night and put it
in the garage. I stopped at one auto parts store and they didn't have a
listing ... another one had 6, 2 for the drums I have, but wanted $40 for
the hose ... this seems a touch high compared with the ones we replaced
last year on other vehicles ... anyone else have similar problems and know
where to get good hoses ?


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:34:18 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Direct Injection

In a message dated 5/31/99 2:45:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wish iastate.edu
writes:


one's on the compression stroke ? >>

This is an easy one. A sensor on the cam will tell this. A crank could not
due to obvious reasons, but the cam only operates at half crank speed.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:58:51 -0400
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Braking issues

William S Hart wrote:

>
> wanted $40 for
> the hose ... this seems a touch high compared with the ones we replaced
> last year on other vehicles ... anyone else have similar problems and know
> where to get good hoses ?
>

The '74 250 I had was a Camper Special. Dual piston calipers on the front meant special brake hoses. $48 was the cheapest I could find. It about blew me away, considering a "standard" hose was only about 18 bucks.

Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH





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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:47:36 -0500
From: "Ted Stringfellow"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 2v adjustment

Sounds good on the idle adjustment. Double check your linkages and vacuum
lines.

- -----Original Message-----
From: jeff loosier
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 9:41 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 2v adjustment


what is the best way for a novice to
adjust a 2v carb on a 68 f100
with a 390 . i rebuilt the carb and
the motor cranks and runs
good at idle but it doesnt want
to take the gas when you get on the
pedel .The way that i adjusted it to get
it running was to screw the air fuel mixture
screws in all the way and then backed them out
two and a half turns then after i got the truck running i
began running the screws in until the motot begain to run
rough and then backed them off until the motor smoothed out
and the truck runs great at idle.Thanks for any suggestions
as i cant get my other truck into the body shop until i can get this one
in running condition for transporation

Thanks Jeff l

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:06:44 -0500
From: Michael Ray Jones
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 77 ac refrigerant amount

I have a 77 F150 with a 460/auto and a/c. I've just converted over to
R134a, and I've put 24 ounces of R134a in it. It's blowing pretty cold
now, but I want it right. My sticker is gone, can anyone tell me what
is the correct number of ounces of refrigerant for this system?
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:57:45 EDT
From: WEDIVE247 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Disc Brake Swap

I used the rear-end from a 76 Grand Marque for my 64 .Its a little wider ,
but off-set wheels took care of that . Welded on shock mounts and leaf spring
towers .Its working well so far . I didn't even have to change drive
shafts..........
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:23:11 EDT
From: Lion5859 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 Gas Mileage

Hey Darrell,

I would never put down a Jacobs ignition, for one, I'm a former user of
Jacobs and they stand behind their product 150% with a full money back
guarantee if not completely satisfied or they'll replace it. My former
igniton was on my '77' T-Bird which had a 400 from the factory and stock
Motorcraft 2150 two-barrell carb. I got 18mpg out of thing thing after
installing this (freeway miles between 75 to 90mph). If there were to be a
module go out, I know for certain that the ford module would go out
first....It happened to me in CA.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that it wasn't the module on your Jacobs.

Maurice Nielsen
76 E250
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