61-79-list-digest Saturday, May 15 1999 Volume 03 : Number 164



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - fan shroud.
FTE 61-79 - FEar This FE
FTE 61-79 - 8-)
FTE 61-79 - dual exhausts
FTE 61-79 - Hello?
FTE 61-79 - heads
Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-)
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello?
Re: FTE 61-79 - heads
FTE 61-79 - Camshaft for 390
FTE 61-79 - Plug wires.
FTE 61-79 - 2bbl to 4bbl conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - 2bbl to 4bbl conversion
FTE 61-79 - Re: Cam for 390 4bbl
FTE 61-79 - Re: Door Skin replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - Windshield seals
FTE 61-79 - Cam for 390 4bbl
FTE 61-79 - RE: dual exhausts
FTE 61-79 - fte 61-79 where's the fe info

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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 06:39:19 -0500
From: "Corey Johnson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fan shroud.

Are most of the 60's Ford fan shrouds interchangeable?
Its not too hot here in Texas yet but my '66 F100 is already running
pretty hot.
I noticed a "universal" shroud at JCWhitneys' but not sure it I should
use it or not.


Corey Johnson

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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:06:47 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FEar This FE

Well I told you guys I'd let you know when I got the pics all up on the
page. They're up there, not as many as I remember taking, but they should
give you an idea how things are going and looking ...

Last night I worked for a couple and a half hours and got a lot of stuff
done. The top of the motor is all buttoned up now, just brackets and
sensors left mostly, oh yeah and a fuel pump, I suppose I'll need that too
... :) Anyway things are going great on it, and with a lot of luck and a
little time, I hope to have the thing back on the road by next Thurs.
We'll see if things can possibly go that well.

But off to make a phone call to get the rest of the parts lined up.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:53:04 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 8-)

Jeez! Everybody must be gettin' ready for Pigeon Forge or something!!!!
I haven't seen this list dead in ages! Too bad I couldn't go...

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:43:45 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - dual exhausts

If you go to the site listed in my signature line, you can sort of see how
my pipes exit the rear. The front view of the truck has the best light. The
rear view is a little dark down around the exhaust pipe.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:55:55 -0500
From: "Corey Johnson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hello?

Just checking to see if the list is still alive.. I have received any
mails in over 7 hours.



Corey Johnson

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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: chinacat sun
Subject: FTE 61-79 - heads

I would like to redo my heads on a 72 f-100 w\ a 390,4 brl carter
carb and c6 trans. I dont know if harden seats have been done. the
truck sometimes backfires through the carb when getting on it. people
have sead it could be running to lean but by the look of the tail pipe
I do not think it is lean..witch makes me think its the heads. how
often do older heads like mine need harden seats? and what else could
cause my beast to act like this?
I have not done a compesion check
yet that is my next step.

damon
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:25:14 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-)

Yeah it is dead but I think there was a server problem earlier. It seems to
be fixed now.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tony Marino
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, May 14, 1999 1:21 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 8-)


>Jeez! Everybody must be gettin' ready for Pigeon Forge or something!!!!
>I haven't seen this list dead in ages! Too bad I couldn't go...




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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:31:43 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello?

Yep the list is still working. It has been Sunny and Warm all day
here in New York so I personally have been out enjoying it while I can (It's
best to enjoy these days when they come up if you can here because NY Summers
are two weeks worth of bad ice skating).

FTE Content: I have been trying to fix a dent on the rear fender of
my 1966 F-250 Flareside. The wheel-well lip is dented and creased. The
best way to describe it would be as follows: looking at the rear fender of
the truck from the passenger side--the wheel well profile has a v-shaped
indentation which pushed the fender lip into itself about 2" and towards the
back. There are no sharp creases. I want to be able to pull that back out.
I do not want to drill it or use a torch if I can help it. The problem is
that the metal is very thick and not very easily worked. Assuming I have
adequately described the problem: are there any Body & Fender types out
there that can point me in a direction as to the proper technique for this
type of dent?? TIA

Stock Man
(a/k/a Thom B.)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/tbeeee/page/index.htm

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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:53:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello?

> Just checking to see if the list is still alive.. I have received any
> mails in over 7 hours.

Looks like everybody went to Pigeon Forge for the weekend :-(
But, they're listening! Hi all!
- --
Pat Brown
From Sunny, windy, cool Sebastopol, California
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:45:57 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - heads

> I would like to redo my heads on a 72 f-100 w\ a 390,4 brl carter
>carb and c6 trans. I dont know if harden seats have been done. the
>truck sometimes backfires through the carb when getting on it. people
>have sead it could be running to lean but by the look of the tail pipe
>I do not think it is lean..witch makes me think its the heads.

Have you checked your ignition system ? No holes in the exhaust either ?
When does it backfire, if you get on it while its cold, or whenever you get
on it ? Lots of variables here, though maybe you've already tested these
and just haven't mentioned it ...


how
>often do older heads like mine need harden seats?

Generally if you're running them hard, then they should have hardened seats
unless you can get a hold of regular regular with lead in it and everything.


and what else could
>cause my beast to act like this?

Any number of things ... I think we need a little more information ...


> I have not done a compesion check
> yet that is my next step.
>
Always a good idea to know, though I've yet to do one on any of my vehicles ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:42:05 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Camshaft for 390

I sent this message about 12 hours ago but something must have gone wrong
with server, so here it is again.....

Is this a good cam for a new 390 with hydraulic lifters/non adjustable
rockers(balanced and .030 over) 4bbl with 600 CFM
vacuum secondary Holley (#1850) in a 69 F250 CS 4x2 auto trans with 10:1
flat top pistons, heads with 68.1-71.1 CCV (C8AE H), 4/11 rear and dual
exhaust?

Competition Cam #33-222-3 (Ford 390-428)
Grind # FB 260H-10 High Energy
Gross valve Lift: .484 in, .484 ex
Duration at .006 tappet lift: 260 deg in, 260 deg ex
Duration at .050: 212 deg in, 212 deg ex
Lobe lift: .2795 in, .2795 ex
Lobe separation: 110 deg

at .006 intake: 24 deg BTDC open, 56 deg ABDC close
at .006 exhaust: 64 deg BBDC open, 16 deg ATDC close
Specifications are for cam installed at 110 degrees intake center line

Is this a good overall combination for power and reliability?

What kind of horsepower/torque could be expected?

Should a standard oil pump be used, or a high volume?

The auto trans was recently rebuilt for a 360, will a change/adjustment be
needed due to more power being applied?

BTW:) The truck must be able to pass emissions, get the holeshot in rush
hour (while empty), and pull a very long and very steep climb with a camper
and trailer.


Danger
danger csolutions.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/danger




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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:07:50 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Plug wires.

" I seem to remember that MSD makes FMS (Ford MotorSports) wires, just
that the FMS ones are blue".

Just put a set of MSD helicore wires on my FE and they are grayish blue
not the prettist color but they work great and come with a real nice
crimper you use in a vice.I have always heard Taylors were great wires
so I bought a set.They crossfired at center two cyls.where the plugs
point toward each other.I returned them and got the MSDs.
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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:51:11 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 2bbl to 4bbl conversion

While converting a 360 2bbl into a 390 4bbl in a 69 F250, I noticed that the
thermostat housing for the 2 bbl intake is much smaller than the 4 bbl.

FYI:) When I purchased the thermo, I said it was for a 64 T-bird with 390
4bbl.

BTW:) the last person who replaced the thermo in the 4 bbl used gobs (and
more gobs) of blue RTV to make the smaller thermo from a 2 bbl fit into the
larger housing.... Doh!


Danger
danger csolutions.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/danger



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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:52:26 -0700
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 2bbl to 4bbl conversion

Danger wrote:

> While converting a 360 2bbl into a 390 4bbl in a 69 F250, I noticed that the
> thermostat housing for the 2 bbl intake is much smaller than the 4 bbl.
>
> FYI:) When I purchased the thermo, I said it was for a 64 T-bird with 390
> 4bbl.
>
> BTW:) the last person who replaced the thermo in the 4 bbl used gobs (and
> more gobs) of blue RTV to make the smaller thermo from a 2 bbl fit into the
> larger housing.... Doh!
>
> Danger
> danger csolutions.net
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/danger
>

I ran into this before. There is an early style with the large t- stat and the
newer style with smaller t-stat. Both 4bbl. I think the change was 68 or 68.
I have both styles of intake. As a side note the Edelbrock intake use the
newer, smaller t-stat so if you are upgrading an older engine you will also
need to pick up a new housing and upper hose.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


99 Contour SE Sport
63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:12:41 -0500
From: "Brett L. Habben"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Cam for 390 4bbl

Danger,
By coincidence I had called Competition Cams (1-800-999-0853) on Monday
for their advice on which cam they would recommend for my truck's 390.
Give them a call and find out what they recommend for your application.
They recommended to me a newer (milder?) grind; a 255 Dual-Energy , a
dual pattern cam.
Competition Cam #33-606-3 (Ford 390-428)
Gross valve Lift: .469 in, .495 ex
Duration at .006 tappet lift: 255 deg in, 265 deg ex
Duration at .050: 203 deg in, 216 deg ex
Lobe separation: 110 deg
Has anybody tried either of these? Which does the FE prefer?
As far as your other questions, it's pretty hard to kill a C6. Keep the
fluid clean and from cooking and it'll last forever.
Thanks,
Brett
'75 F100 Supercab longbed, 390, C6.

>Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 02:46:49 -0700
>From: "Danger"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cam for 390 4bbl
>
>Is this a good cam for a new 390 (balanced and .030 over) 4bbl with 600
CFM
>vacuum secondary Holley (#1850) in a 69 F250 CS 4x2 auto trans with 10:1
>flat top pistons, heads with 68.1-71.1 CCV (C8AE H), 4/11 rear and dual
>exhaust?
>
>Competition Cam #33-222-3 (Ford 390-428)
>Grind # FB 260H-10 High Energy
>Gross valve Lift: .484 in, .484 ex
>Duration at .006 tappet lift: 260 deg in, 260 deg ex
>Duration at .050: 212 deg in, 212 deg ex
>Lobe lift: .2795 in, .2795 ex
>Lobe separation: 110 deg
>
>at .006 intake: 24 deg BTDC open, 56 deg ABDC close
>at .006 exhaust: 64 deg BBDC open, 16 deg ATDC close
>Specifications are for cam installed at 110 degrees intake center line
>
>Is this a good overall combination for power and reliability?
>
>What kind of horsepower/torque could be expected?
>
>Should a standard oil pump be used, or a high volume?
>
>The auto trans was recently rebuilt for a 360, will a change/adjustment
be
>needed due to more power being applied?
>
>
>BTW:) The truck must be able to pass emissions, get the holeshot in rush
>hour (while empty), and pull a very long and very steep climb with a
camper
>and trailer.
>
>
>Danger
>danger csolutions.net
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/danger
>


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Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:53:31 -0500
From: "Brett L. Habben"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Door Skin replacement

Smokey,
20 years ago I was trained as a body man so I'll brush off some cobwebs.
It's generally easier to just replace the door. But if you have any body
working skills it is not hard. There are a couple of things to watch out
for. Make sure that the door you are working on is straight and that you
have a solid lip to crimp the skin over. Make sure the new skin is
straight and has not been damaged in shipping. The quickest way to get
the old skin off is to cut it off with a grinder. You carefully grind
the edge of the door all the way around, cutting the skin loose. This
leaves the old spot welded crimped edge still attached to the back of the
frame lip. Cut loose the spot welds with a drill or grinder, then remove
that strip with an air chisel, or grab it with a pliers and roll it off
like a tuna can lid. Fix any problems with the frame. If you plan to
apply any corrosion control, shoot the back of the skin and inside of the
doorframe with something like DP40. If you don't have access to a spot
welder, place SMC bonding adhesive on the lip. Place the skin over the
frame, center it, and carefully crimp the lip over with a hammer and
dolly. Spot weld if you can. Seal the lip with something like 3M
brushable seam sealer. If you want it like original, blow some
undercoating on the inside of the skin for sound deadening; this gives it
the desired characteristic solid 'thud' when you close the door. I've
probably forgotten some stuff, but this'll at least give you an idea of
what's involved.
Good Luck!
Brett
'75 F100 Supercab longbed, 390 C6.

>Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:54:15 EDT
>From: SMOKEY5209 aol.com
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Door Skins

>Anybody ever put on a door skin? I have two doors that need help and a
skin
>seems to be the way to go if it doesn't require rocket science. I would
>appreciate any advice.
>Thanks in Advance

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Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:23:48 EDT
From: Rollie H Hunt
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Windshield seals

On Sun, 02 May 1999 17:09:59 -0400 William A Whited
writes:
>Rollie, Do you know of a cheaper place to get cheaper seals for the
>windows?
>Looking Dennis Carpenter's catalog, they cost like 100.00 plus.

Sorry to take so long to reply . I am sure that you will find better
prices at a local auto glass shop , just do some checking . My Dad would
go directly to the warehouse ( distributor ) and got what he needed .
There is probably one in most large cities . I am sure you will find the
quality as good as anything around . I have helped my Dad put in new
windshields in old trucks with tint at the top of the glass like newer
trucks . This may be the way it comes without having to order it that way
.
I would help you put this stuff in if you were near by , always easier
with two people . I could give you some little tips on this if you ever
need any . E-mail me directly if you like .

Rollie , King N.C.

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Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:28:24 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cam for 390 4bbl

> Is this a good cam for a new 390 (balanced and .030 over) 4bbl with 600 CFM
> vacuum secondary Holley (#1850) in a 69 F250 CS 4x2 auto trans with 10:1
> flat top pistons, heads with 68.1-71.1 CCV (C8AE H), 4/11 rear and dual
> exhaust?
>
> Competition Cam #33-222-3 (Ford 390-428)
> Grind # FB 260H-10 High Energy
> Gross valve Lift: .484 in, .484 ex
> Duration at .006 tappet lift: 260 deg in, 260 deg ex
> Duration at .050: 212 deg in, 212 deg ex
> Lobe lift: .2795 in, .2795 ex
> Lobe separation: 110 deg
>
> at .006 intake: 24 deg BTDC open, 56 deg ABDC close
> at .006 exhaust: 64 deg BBDC open, 16 deg ATDC close
> Specifications are for cam installed at 110 degrees intake center line
>
> Is this a good overall combination for power and reliability?
>
> What kind of horsepower/torque could be expected?
>
> Should a standard oil pump be used, or a high volume?
>
> The auto trans was recently rebuilt for a 360, will a change/adjustment be
> needed due to more power being applied?
>
> BTW:) The truck must be able to pass emissions, get the holeshot in rush
> hour (while empty), and pull a very long and very steep climb with a camper
> and trailer.

With 10:1 compression, you need more cam to bleed off compression. With
that you may lose a little bit of low-end, but will have a very crisp
running engine, provided that you can find good gas. If you plan to
tow, (with a less agressive cam) drop your compression to 9:1. If you
have your heart set on that cam (and towing) go down to 8.5 to 1.

I've decided that the 427-425hp solid lfter grind is the one for me to
run 10:1 compression. It's sold by Lunati and is the factory blueprint
cam for the 427 LR. It's 324deg, (245 .050) and .524 lift. It may
sound like a hairy cam, but it's cut on a 114 LCA, and is actually
milder than you think, if I can trust my memory.

As for the power to expect, I'd say 315 hp and 420 lbs ft. But I doubt
that you'll get away with this much compression, especially towing.
Running a simulation with the 427 cam, I got 460 lbs ft 4000(but it
still made 400 lbs ft 2000) and 408 hp (385 through the exhaust)
5500.

Oil pump? The Melling unit is fine, but the pump isn't usually a
problem. Another beauty of a solid cam is that you can block the lifter
galleys and get more oil to the crank.
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Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:34:32 -0400
From: "George W. Selby, III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: dual exhausts

George, I'm the one that likes the twin plumes. I also agree about the exit
in front of the rear wheels. I had a 4X4 with side pipes and it suffered
the same malady as you describe. However, I also understand the need for
routing pipes so that they don't get knocked off when off-roading. I also
prefer turbos over glass packs. All of my vehicles have free flowing
turbos, but the quieter versions. Henry has a very very low rumble at idle.
When I punch him from the line, you can't hear the exhaust over the burning
rubber anyway. No wonder I need tires.


I saw the pics from the later post, and was already planning on doing it
just like that. I definitely would not recommend going straight out the
back on a truck used for four-wheeling or towing. Both of which are the
primary uses for the truck. My former Isuzu truck (before I had to go full
size for towing) had its duals coming out the sides behind the rear wheel,
and I never had a problem with them getting hung up on obstacles. I think
muffler shops just try to take the easy way out when the put the dual out
before the rear wheels (it'll be a lot cheaper, they told me when I asked
about a redo). BTW, I bought the truck already like this, and have a few
other things to fix before I get to the exhaust, like replacing the valve
stem seals that keep getting in my oil pump and snapping the distributor
roll pin. (This weekend's project if it will stop raining :-( )

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Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 00:24:04 -0700
From: Neil Johnson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fte 61-79 where's the fe info

To give you an idea of what you can do to a 390, I just dropped mine in
and was VERY pleased. It's a lil over 400 ponies. 401 c.i. 750 Holley
vaccum secondaries, Edlebrock Perfprmer RPM "dual plane" intake, just a lil
head work done.adjustable rockers, valve job, a lil porting & poilishing.....


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