61-79-list-digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 03 : Number 163



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Another Texas Truck emerges!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Duraspark Questions
FTE 61-79 - Sell an Aerostar to buy a F-100
FTE 61-79 - Was Duraspark, now Starter
FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga
Re: FTE 61-79 - Plug Wires...
Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's the FE info?
FTE 61-79 - 66 voltage/amp
FTE 61-79 - dual exhaust
FTE 61-79 - Fear Nothing
Re: FTE 61-79 - dual exhaust
FTE 61-79 - For Sale
FTE 61-79 - Re: C6 valve body replacement
FTE 61-79 - Re: wish's 390 - was: FEar this
FTE 61-79 - Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: FTE 61-79 - Sell an Aerostar to buy a F-100
Re: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga
Re: FTE 61-79 - FEar nothing
Re: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga
Re: FTE 61-79 - Sell an Aerostar to buy a F-100
Re: FTE 61-79 - FEar nothing
FTE 61-79 - Machinists
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Dual Exhaust
Re: FTE 61-79 - Machinists
FTE 61-79 - Hey Guy's I'm FINALLY back!!!
FTE 61-79 - Re: valve body replacement C6
FTE 61-79 - FEar This
FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care
FTE 61-79 - Found: Original Blue 70's Seat in good condition
FTE 61-79 - Wanted: 460 oil pan and F-250 lift kit
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care
Re: FTE 61-79 - Was Duraspark, now Starter
FTE 61-79 - Fuel Tank Sender Questions
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care
FTE 61-79 - looking for Saginaw pump bracket for 351M
FTE 61-79 - Cam for 390 4bbl

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:58:28 EDT
From: Ftcssdv aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Another Texas Truck emerges!

you could also groove the nut allowing oil passage but retaining holding
characteristics
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:02:47 EDT
From: Ftcssdv aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Duraspark Questions

Great info very informative
thanks
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:26:30 +0200
From: "Bill Brox"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sell an Aerostar to buy a F-100

Hi, just need to put this one out.

Yuck, that Aerostar of mine is a tough one to sell. I got one reponce to
the ad I had in the paper. But he couldn't know more about cars than they
had 4 wheels. Translated to American cars, it would be like this: "Is it
an Ambassador ?,,, no it is a Ford, oh yes, a Ford Ambassador, I thought
the word was mispelled !!! No, it is a minivan, more or less like an
Econoline, just a little smaller. Oh now I understand, more like a Falcon
???".
What could I say ????? I gave up. He was buying a car for his son who had
just gotten a lady friend and couldn't use a cargo van with only 2 seats.
LOL,,, if people are that ignorant they shouldn't be buying cars by
themselves.

Hope I get better luck later.


Bill




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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:55:27 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Was Duraspark, now Starter

> If the "S" voltage remains at 12, then the starter continues to run.
> This is (most likely) the same terminal that runs the starter solenoid.
> I don't have any full diagrams here at work, but assuming the white
> wire and the "S" solenoid term are connected, as soon as the ignition
> switch is released the low resistance of the solenoid "S" terminal
> should bring everything to zero volts.

After it sat awhile it started fine, but there was water in the gas. We
pulled the carb, and cleared it and now it's OK. The truck has burned
up three starters in the last two years, so I have to wonder about the
starting/ignition circuit. The thing dragged like the starter was gone,
but now it spins like a champ. I have no doubt that it will do it
again. My questions will now relate mostly to the starting circuit, but
also testing through the ignition.

What if the switch were only partially (and intermittantly)shorting to S
during run(after relaese, even going down the road)? Is it possible
that it would fire the circuit, but not be enough to engage the starter?
>
> Normally, the ballast reduces the max current through the coil by about
> half. This provides long life for the coil (less temp rise), and the
> switch involved, be it points, or in the DS case, a transistor. While
> cranking, the ballast resistor is bypassed (shorted out), allowing the
> full battery voltage, thus a higher current, to flow through the coil.
> This gives a much hotter spark for starting conditions.

So what I need to see at the coil is 12V or therabouts, while the switch
is in the S position, and 6 while in the run, correct? If I were to see
excess voltage at the coil with the switch in the run postion, then
could the ballast be shorting when it shouldn't? Then I'd guess you'd
want to see if there's any voltage going to the S terminal at the
starter solnoid, it would obviously have to be below the engagement
threshold, but enough to create heat. Then if there were voltage in the
starter itself, the solenoid would have to be leaking. How much
resistance should there be in the starter solenoid, to contain stray
voltage? Enough to keep the starter from engaging, but allowing heat to
build in the windings?
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:39:15 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga

The poor 351W with more compression than it needs saga continues...

We put 93 octane fuel in it, and set the initial timing at 10, it pings
badly in the 1200 to 1800 rpm range. Vacuam at this port is running
close to 20 hg at this speed, with 10hg at idle. The idle vacuam at
the manifold is 16hg at idle. The vacuam advance is fully in at 17 hg.
We backed it off to 7d initial, and it still lightly pings, but will
stop if you step into it a little. When you back it off though, the
power drops dramatically. It wants at least 10 degrees initial. I
think what it needs is an adjustable vacuam advance.

I'm thinking, if we took 8d out of vacuam advance, and put 6 of it back
into the centrifugal, we could bump up the initial to 10, and I think it
would run the best it can, and do well for economy.

I've never fooled with the centrifugal advance on an electronic
distributor. What do I need to do to get 6 more degrees of cantrifugal
advance and have it all in by say 2000-2200 rpms?
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:01:35 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Plug Wires...

>So, what motor do I tell them I have so I get the right wires?
>
>Also, I know this is a highly subjective question, but what are the best
>plug wires to get?
>

I think the web page on the fte site says that 302 wires will fit, I was
going to use FMS 5.0L wires. To figure the "best" one's you want the
lowest ohm/ft available. I believe MSD is doing pretty well at this right
now, musclestang.com might have some of the stats on there. I seem to
remember that MSD makes FMS (Ford MotorSports) wires, just that the FMS
ones are blue.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:09:18 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Where's the FE info?

>Well, what cool new stuff has transpired since then that I could try on
>my 'new' 390? I would imagine that this horse has already been flogged
>to death and if any of you could be so kind as to point me to the FE FAQ
>or approximate date and location of the FE archive to look at I would
>truly be in your debt.

Dunno the dates on everything, but there is a performance list as well as
the 61-79, searches in the archive on these lists should reveal some info.
As for new stuff, there are roller rockers, roller cams (though really
heavy only right now), fuel injection is always a fun option, and all the
elec. ignitions you want to play with (right Steve ? :)

I have some pretty good ideas how to get more
>power out of her but would really appreciate anything to get her to go
>past a gas station without exhibiting the DT's and forcing me to give her
>another gasoline fix. Economy was never the FE's forte and there's
>plenty of room for improvement.

And if you don't find what you're looking for, there are a few of us FE
fans out here who can probably help you out a little or a lot depending on
how much you want.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:34:19 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 66 voltage/amp

>>One of the Kendricks replied:

> I used to have that problem. I tried several alternators and voltage
> regulators. Nothing worked. Finally solved the problem by putting on a
> [G-word snipped for sensitivity reasons] internaly regulated alternator.

Oh-Oh. Here comes Marko, and Stu, again. Hang on, Kendricks :-)

> Unfortunately, a lot of externally regulated alternators suffer from low
> output at idle. This is primarily a result of the design of the mechanical
> regulator. Remember that these systems are the first generation after
> generator type setups. Forget the idea of setting the regulator up enough
> to charge fully at idle. You will boil the water out of your battery in
> short order. Can you say "new battery." Been there, done that. The only
> possible solution I can think of is to change the pulley size so that the
> alternator turns faster at idle. I forget whether you go bigger or smaller.
> But it seems that this might create other problems like wearing out your
> alternator brushes faster and probably others.

I've hardly experienced any alternator trouble with the external
regulated Ford design, aside from replacing the point type regulator
with a transitorized one I've not had to do much with them. An original
Ford (properly sized to the application)alternator and a transistorized
regulator have been about as good to me as it gets. The Ford internally
regulated system is another story.

One thing though, if you have a weak blower motor that's drawing alot,
or really any excessive draw (stereo?) for that matter, the charging
system may have trouble keeping up. An internally regulated one might
tolerate this better, I don't know. The Ford internally regulated one
couldn't. I've usually looked for the draw, before I blame the charging
system. In most every case I found something, a bad cable, weak motor,
or an excessively needy accessory. Something that was causing it.

But, if the G*M system fits the need better, I guess it just does. I've
not had that much trouble with the original style myself.
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:05:17 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - dual exhaust

>>I have a 78 F-150 with a 400M and true duals with turbo mufflers and the
pipes coming out ahead of the rear tires. I don't like it for several
reasons.

George, I'm the one that likes the twin plumes. I also agree about the exit
in front of the rear wheels. I had a 4X4 with side pipes and it suffered
the same malady as you describe. However, I also understand the need for
routing pipes so that they don't get knocked off when off-roading. I also
prefer turbos over glass packs. All of my vehicles have free flowing
turbos, but the quieter versions. Henry has a very very low rumble at idle.
When I punch him from the line, you can't hear the exhaust over the burning
rubber anyway. No wonder I need tires.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:10:40 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fear Nothing

Brian takes a poke:
BTW, would that picture of your truck include you sweating without your AC?
:-)

Not for long. I'm going to get that thing fixed before many 100 degree days
pass. I can't decide whether to recharge with R12, use an R12 sub or switch
to R134. Right now R134 is looking good, but I am concerned about getting
all of the old oil out of my compressor. I still haven't given up on
switching to an A6 off of an LTD either and that would solve the oil
problem. I'm going back to school to finish my MBA, the house needs
painted, the Towncar still needs a power steering pump, etc. etc. etc.
Maybe I'll advertise as the FTE Sauna and sell tickets. Naw!

>>FErocious!

I *like* it!

Me, too, Nancy. Most excellent!!

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:11:35 -0400
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - dual exhaust

John LaGrone wrote:
>
> >>I have a 78 F-150 with a 400M and true duals with turbo mufflers and the
> pipes coming out ahead of the rear tires. I don't like it for several
> reasons.
>
> George, I'm the one that likes the twin plumes. I also agree about the exit
> in front of the rear wheels. I had a 4X4 with side pipes and it suffered
> the same malady as you describe. However, I also understand the need for
> routing pipes so that they don't get knocked off when off-roading.

This is how mine is routed now (suspensiomn at full droop).

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thecore.com/~luxjo/BRONC_DETAILS/shackleflip2.jpg

There is no reason you could not route is straight back, in between
the gas tank and the leaf spring, and then hang a 90 straight out to the
side and right through the lower rear section of the 1/4 panel (cut a
hole). Mine don't ever hit amything, as they are very close to the rear
of tire. The other easy fix is 9 inches of lift and 44" tires :-)

I also
> prefer turbos over glass packs. All of my vehicles have free flowing
> turbos, but the quieter versions.

I agree. I can hear them when I get on it, but otherwise they are
reasonable quiet (throaty, but not annoying) for around town. I have the
pep boys specials 19.95 each. I have blown one out, but I don't put
much milage on her, so high dollar muffs were not a priority.

OX
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:13:22 -0500
From: Larry Schmiedekamp
Subject: FTE 61-79 - For Sale

Ran accross this in the thrifty nickel paper today.


For sale 1962 ford unibody pickup, 3/4 restored, runs great rebuilt engine.
$2400 OBO. FMI call 915-949-3547 after 6:00 p.m. . San Angelo Texas

We're central time using daylite saveing time. 1hr ahead.

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: C6 valve body replacement

John, Azie and Steve, thanks for the tips. This is the kind of
advice I was looking for.

To answer Steve's question:

My F-100 has a shift kit in it I am anxious to get rid of. The
PO put it in with Street/Strip tuning. I sure wish he would of
spent his time and money fixing the mechanical problems before
putting a bunch of aftermarket stuff. But then, if he did that,
he probably wouldn't have sold it to me. :)

I am swapping the complete valve bodies between the two trucks
you see in my .sig below. Same year, both 390/C6, one 2X4 one
4X4.

Mark in Southwest Washington
www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: wish's 390 - was: FEar this

wish wrote:
> 1st. What size is the hole for the dipstick on the block that I
> have to plug ? Can I just get a freeze plug, or do I need something
> else ?

The hole has a step in it to locate the bottom of the dipstick tube.
I measured the larger diameter (I think it was 3/8") and used a big
pin punch to drive the freeze plug all the way down to the step. I
then filled the hole with red permatex and scraped it flush with a
putty knife.

> 2nd. finally got my pics from the first half of things ...

Let us know when they are up on your page.

> 3rd. Lower cover for my tranny ... do I need one specifically for
> an FE, or will any for a C6 work ? Anyone got one they want to get
> rid of ?

I noticed in the Jeg's catalog there is a chrome one from Motorsport
that has a drain plug. It is $35 which I would say is pretty
reasonable. It even says "C6" real big on it in case you forget what
you have. :)


Mark in Southwest Washington
www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:35:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Dual Exhaust

Chris Brandt wrote:
> I have a dual 2.5 inlet single 3 inch outlet on my 78 F250 4x4. I
> got tired of duals rusting out from not having enough heat to burn
> the condensation out in cold weather.

The dual turbos on my F-250 Supercab do this too. Takes several miles
of driving for it to stop steaming. It is one of the reasons I went
to the single flowmaster on the F-100. By the way mine has 2.25"
inlets.

James A. Doty wrote about his two inlet Flowmaster:
$ It rumbles deeply at idle and sounds great during hard acceleration.
$ At freeway speeds it's still quiet enough to talk over, listen to
$ the stereo, or talk on the 2 meter radio.

This is exactly how I described the sound of my truck.

$ I've had no complaints from others about the noise, and a few people
$ have said that it sounds pretty cool.

I friend of mine said it sounds "industrial". I have no idea what he
meant by that but I am pretty sure it was a complement.

Wish told me how to record a .wav file and I just figured out the
reason I couldn't do it was something wrong with my soundcard (or
driver). I used another computer and it works fine. I still have
to record the truck, but soon you should be able to hear it on my
webpage.


Mark in Southwest Washington
www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:39:46 -0500
From: "Darryl Wright"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Sell an Aerostar to buy a F-100

>He was buying a car for his son who had just gotten a lady friend and
couldn't use a >cargo van with only 2 seats. LOL,,, if people are that
ignorant they shouldn't be buying >cars by themselves.


Here's a scary thought: That brain trust is out there *driving* on the same
roads the rest of us use. Be afraid. Be *very* afraid.

Good luck selling your vehicle. Okay, *better* luck.

Nancy Wright
"Naghag"
Denton, Texas
and Stony (PWC) E;-P

Now for your FE content: Just received an LMC catalog. (Of course, they sent
the *wrong* one! I'll abandon this one at the local library for someone else
to treasure!) Is LMC okay to order from . . . is their merchandise of good
quality? Are they okay about returns and missent items? Do items in their
catalog meet spec and bolt up nicely in the appropriate year and model
truck? Thanks in advance for your input.

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:45:57 +0200
From: "Bill Brox"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga

Hm..... are you sure it is like this ?

I would assume that the centrifugal curve is wrong, that it is coming in to
quickly. This is mostly the case if a little hard compression.
If you take of the plate in the dist. you will see 2 springs down there,
one is working all the time, while the other works more when it has come up
in speed to flatten the ign. curve.
The first one is in my opinion to weak, and the second one to strong when
it finaly get tensed.

The result of this is that the engine gets far to much ign. advance up to
as you say
1200 - 1800 rpm, and then when the second spring is starting to work it
will be fine.

I can say this because I once had a 351W with just the same problem. It is
like a copy of what you tells.

I used a Crane adjustable vacuum adjuster for the distr. It worked fine,
and you could adjust the spring tension very fine. But, this was not the
solution for the pinging problem.

What you need is to put the engine in a brake and determine the perfect
ign. advance for ever 50 rpm or so, just from idle to high rpm (3000-3500
rpm) at no load, and at FULL LOAD. Then, when you have the correct curve,
you can set up your distributor to work just as you want. The curve at Full
load will tell you the initial setting and centrifugal curve, the idle
curve will give the vacuum advance.

Hey, this is maybe the most important single problem of older engines lousy
mpg on part trottle and part load. If you get this perfect you will notice
a substantial increase in fuel economy. Ok, I won't mention the economy as
I know most Americans don't care to much about economy but about power.
But, here it comes again, the more power you can get out of your engine at
any engine speed and at any load, the better economy you get. To all those
who have lousy economy, your engines is not working at it's best
performance peak either..... both goes hand in hand.

By the way, I never used the timed spark port on the carb. but manifold
vacuum. You will notice a common problem with timed spark port, and that is
that during very low speeds in the city the engine gets to late ign. to
keep clean. At idle you will need to run very lean mixture, which is good
ok, but the timed spark port is not the best solution I have seen. I let my
engine have full ign. advance all the time, ok when I started the engine it
sounded a little like a diesel, but never problem with dirt building up
during slow speeds.


Bill



- ----------
> From: William L. Ballinger
> To: Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga
> Date: 13. mai 1999 14:39
>
> The poor 351W with more compression than it needs saga continues...
>
> We put 93 octane fuel in it, and set the initial timing at 10, it pings
> badly in the 1200 to 1800 rpm range. Vacuam at this port is running
> close to 20 hg at this speed, with 10hg at idle. The idle vacuam at
> the manifold is 16hg at idle. The vacuam advance is fully in at 17 hg.
> We backed it off to 7d initial, and it still lightly pings, but will
> stop if you step into it a little. When you back it off though, the
> power drops dramatically. It wants at least 10 degrees initial. I
> think what it needs is an adjustable vacuam advance.
>
> I'm thinking, if we took 8d out of vacuam advance, and put 6 of it back
> into the centrifugal, we could bump up the initial to 10, and I think it
> would run the best it can, and do well for economy.
>
> I've never fooled with the centrifugal advance on an electronic
> distributor. What do I need to do to get 6 more degrees of cantrifugal
> advance and have it all in by say 2000-2200 rpms?
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:55:28 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FEar nothing

Thanks for your message at 06:24 PM 1/1/98 -0600, Stu Varner. Your message
was:
>> FEar Clevelands!
>
>Dennis, I have been to Cleveland and I fear *it* very much!!!! 8^)

You, too?

I passed through Cleveland in th emiddle of a riot--but that was 27 years
ago. Never returned...
I was right behind a Ford Truck (FTE content) in a '62 Ford Galaxie
(belonged to the blonde riding with me...excuse me for the side trip down
memory lane).


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:05:11 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga

This was posted last year on the 61-79 list by BPayne1011 aol.com . Don't
know if he's still on the list. It may help you with the distributor/timing
issues:

United Dist In Albany Oregon 541-928-5368 can build killer distributors call
em if the # is wrong let me know Hes built lots at the ford dealership
where
i work and one for me better than msd for half the price but hell need cam
specks


- -----Original Message-----
From: William L. Ballinger
To: Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 5:39 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - The 351W Saga


>The poor 351W with more compression than it needs saga continues...
>
>We put 93 octane fuel in it, and set the initial timing at 10, it pings
>badly in the 1200 to 1800 rpm range. Vacuam at this port is running
>close to 20 hg at this speed, with 10hg at idle. The idle vacuam at
>the manifold is 16hg at idle. The vacuam advance is fully in at 17 hg.
>We backed it off to 7d initial, and it still lightly pings, but will
>stop if you step into it a little. When you back it off though, the
>power drops dramatically. It wants at least 10 degrees initial. I
>think what it needs is an adjustable vacuam advance.
>
>I'm thinking, if we took 8d out of vacuam advance, and put 6 of it back
>into the centrifugal, we could bump up the initial to 10, and I think it
>would run the best it can, and do well for economy.
>
>I've never fooled with the centrifugal advance on an electronic
>distributor. What do I need to do to get 6 more degrees of cantrifugal
>advance and have it all in by say 2000-2200 rpms?



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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:18:07 +0200
From: "Bill Brox"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Sell an Aerostar to buy a F-100

LOL Nancy,,,,,, well you don't need to fear anything.

Bill

>
> Here's a scary thought: That brain trust is out there *driving* on the
same
> roads the rest of us use. Be afraid. Be *very* afraid.
>
> Good luck selling your vehicle. Okay, *better* luck.
>
> Nancy Wright
> "Naghag"
> Denton, Texas
> and Stony (PWC) E;-P
>

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:20:41 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FEar nothing

Oh puh-leeze! I lived in Detroit for 3 years, Cleveland (yes I've been there
many times, used to drive right by the Ford plant) is a walk in the park (as
well as a nice engine for a Ford truck).

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Pearson
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FEar nothing


>Thanks for your message at 06:24 PM 1/1/98 -0600, Stu Varner. Your message
>was:
> >> FEar Clevelands!
>>
>>Dennis, I have been to Cleveland and I fear *it* very much!!!! 8^)
>
>You, too?
>
>I passed through Cleveland in th emiddle of a riot--but that was 27 years
>ago. Never returned...



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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:14:15 -0400
From: David Henderson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Machinists

Bill:

I just got off the phone with my machinist and looks as if both the head and
the block on my 300 I6 will be done by tomorrow morning. The block is finished
and bored 0.040 over. He's starting on the head this afternoon and should have
it done by tomorrow morning. I can give you his snail-mail address so you could
ship your next block to him. You could probably use the postal service and
still get your block and head back quicker ;^)!! Just kidding!! Thought I
would give you a hard time since you were having trouble getting your block
back.

Seriously though, if there are any list members in Southwest Virginia,
this guy is both good and fast (recommended by several engine builders out here
in the greater Blacksburg/Christiansburg area). Send me an email off-list and I
will send you his name, phone #, and address. Thanks!!

Dave H

- --
_
_| ~~. David Henderson
\, _} DHenders VT.Edu
\( Gig 'em Aggies! '93

Currently at:
Interdepartmental Genetics Program
2010 Litton Reaves Hall
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540)231-4773
(540)231-5014
DHenders VT.Edu
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dasc.vt.edu/henderson/dhenderson.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:36:35 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Dual Exhaust

>to record the truck, but soon you should be able to hear it on my
>webpage.
>
Woohoo :) I'm anxiously awaiting this as I still haven't decided what to
run when I get my headers put in :)


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:48:23 -0700
From: "James A. Doty"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Dual Exhaust

Hi Mark:

What a cool idea. I'll have to do that and put it on my page.

In fact I need to update my page since I haven't mentioned the
exhaust setup yet.

> Wish told me how to record a .wav file and I just figured out the
> reason I couldn't do it was something wrong with my soundcard (or
> driver). I used another computer and it works fine. I still have
> to record the truck, but soon you should be able to hear it on my
> webpage.

James A. Doty
jamesd1 ptld.uswest.net
www.moselle.com/~jamesd

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:48:49 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Machinists

>I just got off the phone with my machinist and looks as if both the head and
>the block on my 300 I6 will be done by tomorrow morning. The block is
finished
>and bored 0.040 over. He's starting on the head this afternoon and should
have
>it done by tomorrow morning.

Congratulations. I'm so jealous that you got all that done so quickly! I
hope the rest of the build goes as smoothly.

I can give you his snail-mail address so you
>could
>ship your next block to him. You could probably use the postal service and
>still get your block and head back quicker ;^)!! Just kidding!! Thought I
>would give you a hard time since you were having trouble getting your block
>back.
>
Hey yeah, that would work ... lets see an FE weighs about 500lbs if its
stripped right ? So that would only cost ... well might as well probably
just buy a different vehicle.


Again, congratulations and let us know how things are going.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:06:14 EDT
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hey Guy's I'm FINALLY back!!!

Gee, I wish these dumb computers were as easy to fix as a truck's. It took
over 4 months to get this stupid thing fixed! My motherboard crapped out and
my processor, along with a bunch of other EXPENSIVE components. Anyway I'm
back, and living in a new state, no not bliss, New Hampshire!!! So now I have
spent all my extra money, if there is such a thing, on moving and comp and
Zilla has sat neglected in my yard, but was recently given company (79 F-250
4x4). I'm starting to work on Zilla little by little now, as the funds come
in, she's getting alot of it, in a frame off. My family is now moving to
North Carolina ('round Charlotte, may even live in SC) So if you live in my
area, New Hampshire, VT, Maine, and now NC, SC, drop me a line - I can always
use a well needed (and paid) hand working on my truck(s). I just can't afford
to pay 40 bucks an hour in labor on top of parts..... And you all know I
don't know too much about what I'm doing. But if your in the area on a lazy
weekend and want something to do...........well, you know, give me a call.
:o)

??? - Just bought some headers, and I want to run a custom Exhaust - Any
suggestions?

??? - How's the quality of replacement (crash) parts from JC Whitney, ie.
Fenders?
I found a place I can get the plain original equip fenders from '79 and they
are in good shape, and cheaper, but are JCW's better or crappy cheap
worthless.....well, you get the picture.

How's the pull truck going Sleddog - Get that tranny prob fixed ok?

Gotta' run - It's great to be back!

- -Shawn
'79 F-150 4x4 351m ('ZILLA)
'79 F-250 4x4 351m (NO NAME)
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:54:43 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: valve body replacement C6

On Wed, 12 May 1999, am14 daimlerchrysler.com wrote:
>
> Mark in SW Wash writes: >>Are there any parts I need besides a pan gasket, the
> valve body
> and a case of fluid?
>
> I haven't been in one recently and may have this mixed up with another tranny,
> but I think there is a small seal around the shifter shaft that I would replace
> while I was in there(provided it is accesable with the tranny still in vehicle -
> I can't remember). I would suspect it to take only a couple of hours, even if
> you are new at it, and unless you drain the TC, I would think 8 qts would be
> sufficient. Heck, I've forgotten just how much a dry C6 holds, but there are at
> least 2 different depths of pans, so it varies with the depth of the pan I know.

If you're going to drop the valve body you better have a lot of fluid on
hand and a big bucket because the torque convertor drains then. Also it
drains (slowly) if you pull off the front cooler line, as I found out
yesterday while replacing the rubber hoses up front. Good thing I had
bought a 5 gallon bucket full of ATF.

Birken
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:16:13 -0700
From: sparky mail.island.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FEar This

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:13:32 -0500
>From: William S Hart
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - FEar this
>
>> FEar nothing
>>100% MotorcraFT
>>
>>This also works for folks like Dave and I with M-blocks and the I6 crowd.
>>Hmmm. This sounds so good I might have to get a shirt made with a picture
>>of MY truck on it. Oops, I think Fear Nothing is a copyrighted trademark.
>>
>Fear Nothing is copyrighted ? I've seen Fear This and No Fear, even Some
>Fear (love that shirt), but never Fear Nothing ... doesn't mean its not
>there, just haven't seen it yet.


Funny this subject should come up. I have a "FEAR THIS" tinted decal
across the top of the windshield of my truck. I got it because I was
constantly being cutoff when I was backing into my driveway by a neighbour
driving a little ch#v Ch#vette with a "No Fear" sticker on his windshield.
I figured it was an appropriate sticker for the occasion. That and the
fact SWMBO calls my truck "Right-Of-Way" because I always seem to get the
right of way at stop signs :) I guess it does look a little imposing with
the 35" tires and the big pushbumper on the front :):):)
I now know another reason for the sticker "FEar THIS" also works.

Sparky
73 F250 4x4
390FE 4v


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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:52:46 -0500
From: Jeremy Stiffler
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care

Hello again.

I found me another cheap dash pad in Texas and before I begin cleaning it up
I'm in need of some advice. What should I use to clean it up with? I
talked to one guy at an autozone and he said on his 70s ford he uses a
water-based cleaner, and he told me to try and stay away from things like
ArmorAll because it's oil-based and will crack easier. Any truth to this?
So I'm open to any suggestions on how to take care of this dash pad.

On a side note this dash pad I managed to get for $35. I believe I saw a
black dash pad that just needs to be cleaned up in the Austin, TX area. I
think it was around the same price also. I know I have their business card
around here somewhere....if anyone is interested I'll try digging around for
it.

Thanks,

Jeremy L. S.
1973 F-100 Ranger XLT "The Green Bandit"
360CI, V8, 2WD, Two-Tone Green

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:01:10 -0500
From: Jeremy Stiffler
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Found: Original Blue 70's Seat in good condition

Figured I'd alert some of yall with blue trucks to a seat I found where I
got my new dash pad. This truck is a F250, powder blue. The front of it is
all screwed up. Both doors are stuck because of the impact of whatever
collision it was in so I couldn't inspect it all that well. But from the
looks of it it's in excellent shape. There are no tears, holes, or worn
down spots on this seat. I think it's at least worth a look. When I talked
to the owner of the shop he said $25 for it, which ain't too bad. He tends
to forget the prices he quotes so just ask him what he'll sell it for if ya
go by. Here's the address:

Dean's Tire and Auto Service
Highway 281 South and Loop 163
P.O. Box 785
Blanco, TX 78606

(830)-833-4923

If you're northbound on 281 from San Antonio, then Dean's will be right
before Blanco. If you're southbound on 281 from say Johnson City, Marble
Falls, or Burnet then Dean's will be just on the other side of Blanco
heading south. I think ya get the idea.

If you go there or call ask for Dean for a price. He's the owner so the
price depends solely on him. Good luck for those in the market of a blue
seat.


Jeremy L. S.
1973 F-100 Ranger XLT "The Green Bandit"
360CI, V8, 2WD, Two-Tone Green

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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:16:53 -0400
From: frenz.6 osu.edu (Dale Frenz)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Wanted: 460 oil pan and F-250 lift kit

Greetins All!

I need a stock mid or rear sump oil pan for my 460 build-up.
Preferably good condition and not beatin' to complete hell. (Partially
there is exceptable.) Let me know what ya' got out there.

Also, does anybody have a lift kit for a '79-ish F-250? I was
thinking maybe somebody had a beater that they scrapped. Even just front
springs and rear blocks would be ok. As little as 4" would be ok with me.
(hmm... wonder why women never say that.).

Thanks,
Dale Frenz
frenz.6 osu.edu


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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:16:53 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care

>I found me another cheap dash pad in Texas and before I begin cleaning it up
>I'm in need of some advice. What should I use to clean it up with? I
>talked to one guy at an autozone and he said on his 70s ford he uses a
>water-based cleaner, and he told me to try and stay away from things like
>ArmorAll because it's oil-based and will crack easier. Any truth to this?
>So I'm open to any suggestions on how to take care of this dash pad.
>
Oil eats most rubber and most plastics, so that means that you probably
don't want to use it on things that aren't designed to have oil in them ...
when I got my dash from a junkyard, I just used a damp papertowel to clean
it up, if you've got some really nasty stuff maybe some soap or goop might
work, but try it in an out of the way place first to be sure it doesn't
discolor things...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:20:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Was Duraspark, now Starter

[Sorry guys and gals, this is a long one!]

[Schematic reference: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://web.p3.net/~shoman/duraspark.htm]

Bill wrote:
> > pat replied:
> > If the "S" voltage remains at 12, then the starter continues to run.
> > This is (most likely) the same terminal that runs the starter solenoid.
> > I don't have any full diagrams here at work, but assuming the white
> > wire and the "S" solenoid term are connected, as soon as the ignition
> > switch is released the low resistance of the solenoid "S" terminal
> > should bring everything to zero volts.
>
> After it sat awhile it started fine, but there was water in the gas. We
> pulled the carb, and cleared it and now it's OK. The truck has burned
> up three starters in the last two years, so I have to wonder about the
> starting/ignition circuit. The thing dragged like the starter was gone,
> but now it spins like a champ. I have no doubt that it will do it
> again. My questions will now relate mostly to the starting circuit, but
> also testing through the ignition.
>
> What if the switch were only partially (and intermittantly)shorting to S
> during run(after relaese, even going down the road)? Is it possible
> that it would fire the circuit, but not be enough to engage the starter?

I suppose it would be possible, lets say it takes 50-100 milliseconds
to pull in the solenoid, and another 50-100 mS to get the starter
turning, then another 100-500 mS to get it up to speed and actually
engage (I just pulled these numbers out of a dark cavity!). So, lets
say half to 3/4 second before the bad noises begin when the starter
hits the flywheel. There are 4 sparks per revolution, at 2000 RPM
that would be (4*2000)/60/2 or 66 sparks in that half-second before
the starter hits. I guess you could feel and hear that.

But, I'm skeptical. You could test it by disconnecting the white wire,
and leaving it disconnected while driving around. For cold starts, it
would probably work just fine without the retard start feature.

> > Normally, the ballast reduces the max current through the coil by about
> > half. This provides long life for the coil (less temp rise), and the
> > switch involved, be it points, or in the DS case, a transistor. While
> > cranking, the ballast resistor is bypassed (shorted out), allowing the
> > full battery voltage, thus a higher current, to flow through the coil.
> > This gives a much hotter spark for starting conditions.
>
> So what I need to see at the coil is 12V or therabouts, while the switch
> is in the S position, and 6 while in the run, correct?

Pretty much. The actual voltage will be dependant on the ratio of the
ballast and coil resistances. 6-8 volts in the run position is normal.

> If I were to see
> excess voltage at the coil with the switch in the run postion, then
> could the ballast be shorting when it shouldn't?

Yes, but the ballast going away intermittantly wont cause any
run problems, just extra heat in the coil and driver transistor
('points'). Over the long term, a reliability problem, but nothing
more. You may not be able to "see" a voltage spike with a voltmeter,
they're usually too slow to respond. You'll need a scope.

> Then I'd guess you'd
> want to see if there's any voltage going to the S terminal at the
> starter solnoid, it would obviously have to be below the engagement
> threshold, but enough to create heat. Then if there were voltage in the
> starter itself, the solenoid would have to be leaking. How much
> resistance should there be in the starter solenoid, to contain stray
> voltage? Enough to keep the starter from engaging, but allowing heat to
> build in the windings?

There are two separate circuits in the solenoid. The first is the
coil itself, which is probably a few ohms to ground (many turns of
copper wire). In order to actuate the solenoid, enough current has
to flow in the coil to build a strong magnetic field to overcome the
return spring. In our case, (Wild guess again!) lets say 8 volts.
Not only 8 volts, but it has to be a low-resistance source. A leakage
current is generally through a high-resistance path, many 1000's of
ohms. Lets give it the benefit of doubt, and say solenoid is 10 ohms,
and leakage is 100 ohms. from a 12 volt battery, the voltage would
divide across these two, with the leakage (100 ohms) getting
12*(100/110) or 10.9 volts, and the solenoid getting 12*(10/110)
or 1.1 volts. 1.1 volts isn't enough to actuate the solenoid, or
generate significant heat (watts=Voltage(squared)/R), (1.1^2)/10
.121 or about 1/8 watt. I just held a resistor between my thumb and
finger, at 1/8 watt I couldn't feel it. At about 1/4 watt I could
start to feel a slight temp rise. Now, spread that heat over an
object the size of a solenoid, bolted to a nice heatsink (the inner
fender) and you would have to have several watts before you could
detect the heat with your finger.

The starter itself, being fewer turns of a much larger wire, is
going to have an even lower resistance than the solenoid. I wont
get into the electrical model of a motor here (all kinds of wierd
effects of back emf, etc), but for your case (starter has current
but not turning), it looks like two or more coils in parallel.
lets pull anumber from space and say that the starter is 1 ohm
(actually, they are much lower!). With a full 12 volts on 1 ohm,
there is 144 watts of power. Stick a 120 watt bulb in drop light,
you get the picture, lots of heat. Now, add a leakage resistance,
of say, 10 ohms between the battery and starter. Starter dissapation
now drops to about 1.1 watts, and 1 watt on a chunk of steel the
size of starter is going to be hard to detect with a thermometer!
So, if the leakage in the secondary solenoid circuit is only 10 ohms,
you still wont get significant heating of the starter, especially
with those pesky header pipes nearby!

As far as actual leakage resistance measurements on the solenoid,
You would probably need a special ohmeter (called a "Megger") to
be able to measure it.

If you made it this far, you can stretch and rub those glassy eyeballs!

I hope this made sense, Bill.
- --
Pat Brown
Still sunny, warming up more in Sebastopol, California
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:48:18 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fuel Tank Sender Questions

Hey Guys--

I just got done spending $345 bucks in custom gauges for my '70. One of
them I bought was an Autometer Fuel Level gauge that is for "Most Fords".
It's calibrated for 73 Ohms empty, and 8-12 Ohms full-- before I unwrap
this sucker, is it correct for the 67-72 fuel tank sending units?

Secondly, since I'm such a gauge friek
(http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony/nelliegauges.jpg), I installed a whole series
of Autometer Sport Comp gauges in my '78 two years ago, including this fuel
one already, and they all work great except for the fuel one "ticks"
meaning it constantly wobbles between 1/4 and 3/4 when the tank is either
barely empty, or barely full. I never get a constant reading out of it.
What is the Ohm range that the '73-79 rear pan sender units are suppose to
register at? I know that I didn't wire it through the instrument cluster
voltage regulator - could that be the problem? I know '70 has one, does my
'78 even have one?!?!?

Thanks -- when I get these suckers all snugged into a stock '70 plastic
dash gauge housing, I'll take a picture and put it up for your guys's opinions!

Always appreciative---

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:46:05 -0400
From: Brent Cole
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care

I recently bought a 74 F100 with a perfect factor black dash pad and was
going to transplant it into my 79 project truck. One day before I removed
it from the 74 I decided to clean it. I sprayed 409 cleaner on a rag and
just wiped the crude off this dash pad. The very next day it cracked. Do
not clean it with anything! If I were you I wouldn't even wipe it off. I
was so disgusted. Any way that's my expenience. Don't use 409! Congrates
on your $35 find.

Brent


- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Stiffler
To: Ford Trucks
Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 4:04 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dash Pad Care


>Hello again.
>
>I found me another cheap dash pad in Texas and before I begin cleaning it
up
>I'm in need of some advice. What should I use to clean it up with? I
>talked to one guy at an autozone and he said on his 70s ford he uses a
>water-based cleaner, and he told me to try and stay away from things like
>ArmorAll because it's oil-based and will crack easier. Any truth to this?
>So I'm open to any suggestions on how to take care of this dash pad.
>
>On a side note this dash pad I managed to get for $35. I believe I saw a
>black dash pad that just needs to be cleaned up in the Austin, TX area. I
>think it was around the same price also. I know I have their business card
>around here somewhere....if anyone is interested I'll try digging around
for
>it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeremy L. S.
>1973 F-100 Ranger XLT "The Green Bandit"
>360CI, V8, 2WD, Two-Tone Green
>
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Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:12:22 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - looking for Saginaw pump bracket for 351M

If you have one, let me know. I've been messing with PS pumps and boxes
all week and still have no power steering. I want to get the modified
"canned ham" pump from AGR (supposedly 3.4 GPM ....


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