61-79-list-digest Tuesday, April 20 1999 Volume 03 : Number 134



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan
FTE 61-79 - 6 cyl dual exhaust
Re: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan
FTE 61-79 - Re: Driveshaft vibration, clutch chatter ...
FTE 61-79 - RE:360FE Swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - Why I love this group
FTE 61-79 - Removing AC
FTE 61-79 - 350 vs 500 CFM Holley
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dual Exhaust
Re: FTE 61-79 - hello from new poster
Re: FTE 61-79 - Removing AC
Re: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan
FTE 61-79 - redline
FTE 61-79 - Automotive Literature - Was: Owners Manual
FTE 61-79 - Transmission mounts - Was: Motor Mounts for 390 FE
FTE 61-79 - Power Steering
[none]
Re: FTE 61-79 - 6 cyl dual exhaust
FTE 61-79 - Re:
Re: FTE 61-79 - Removing AC
Re: FTE 61-79 - redline
FTE 61-79 - FE p/s
FTE 61-79 - Re: (no subject)
Re: FTE 61-79 - redline
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE p/s
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: (no subject)
FTE 61-79 - Ford Red
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Red
FTE 61-79 - 2 hose modulators
Re: FTE 61-79 - Motor Mounts for 390 FE
Re: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan
Re: FTE 61-79 - Motor Mounts for 390 FE
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE p/s
FTE 61-79 - Ham Can P/S
FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail
FTE 61-79 - air compressor
FTE 61-79 - swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - 360FE Swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail
Re: FTE 61-79 - air compressor
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Red
Re: FTE 61-79 - air compressor
Re: FTE 61-79 - redline
Re: FTE 61-79 - redline
FTE 61-79 - freon for factoy AC
FTE 61-79 - building a 360

=======================================================================

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:54:57 PDT
From: "Park Hunter"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan

Thanks for the advice several weeks ago about my weak-running engine.
The weather finally got nice enough/I finally had enough time to work
on it some more. Checked compression in all cylinders (excellent),
changed plugs and whoa! mama! it runs! Some of the plugs were pretty
black and #6 looked slightly oily. Not great news, but for the amount
of use this good ol' beater sees, I can change/clean plugs once in a
while.

Seems like gasoline is getting into the oil pan. I assumed this was
because of the heavy choke I had to run under before I got the plugs
changed. However I changed the oil at the same time as the plugs and
have been able to run little/no choke since. It looks like the oil is
getting diluted again.

I suspect the fuel pump as a culprit. Any place else that gasoline
could leak down into the oil pan?

Park Hunter

============================================================
M. Park Hunter, Information Systems Coordinator
Metropolitan School District of Warren County
1222 South St. Rd. 263, West Lebanon, IN 47991
765/893-4525 (phone) phunter [208.18.240.10]
765/275-5764 (pager) http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://208.18.240.10/is/index.htm
"Not THAT button! Don't push THAT button! Aaauugghh!"
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:10:20 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 6 cyl dual exhaust

> one question about exhaust. i have a 300 ci 6 cylinder in a 78 F-150 and it
> is in need of a new exhaust system. it has the stock exhaust components on
> it now and i was looking into putting duals on it but i wonder what it would
> sound like. i don't want it to sound sorry since it is a 6 cylinder. what
> are some possilbe setups for the best sound i can get out of my exhaust
> system. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I'm no 6 cylinder afficianado, but it would seem to me that if you could
get a split exhaust manifold, and run a pair of 2 inch pipes at least
back to the muffler you'd have to gain something.

You wouldn't need duals all the way out the back, you cou'd run a dual
inlet/single outlet muffler with a 2 3/4 or 3 inch tailpipe. It should
sound pretty good.
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:15:55 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan

In a message dated 4/20/99 7:58:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
phunter_msdwc hotmail.com writes:

>
> I suspect the fuel pump as a culprit. Any place else that gasoline
> could leak down into the oil pan?
>
Park:
Cylinder blow by might dilute your gas if you have one (or more) that
isn't firing. However, you usually do not see that causing a rapid dilution
of your oil. From what I gather break-down occurred rather quickly since
your oil change. There isn't any other place you can get the gas from.
Therefore, I'd say either you have gremlins or your fuel pump is shot.

Stock Man
(a/k/a Thom B.)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/tbeeee/page/index.htm
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:44:08 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Driveshaft vibration, clutch chatter ...

> Be nice to your truck, stop giving it The Finger and get a diaphragm type
> clutch assembly.
> Have your flywheel machined flat. If you want a really good clutch, get a
> Centerforce. And make sure that those cam plugs (on the back of the motor
> behind the metal divider plate) aren't leaking. But even if they seep a
> bit, and the rear main seal seeps a bit, the diaphragm clutch shouldn't
> chatter for a long, long, long time. Mine still doesn't chatter after
> 30,000 miles and it wasn't new to start with. The Finger chattered after
> literally 100 miles!

I've always liked diaphram clutch covers for street driving myself. I
think that the biggest reason they haven't gained wide acceptance is
that they would hang up (not engage) if you got the vehicle in a certain
twisted position that caused the linkage to overcenter the diaphram.
I've actually hung them up bad enough to have to pull the truck (Brand
X) out of the twist and crawl underneath and pull on the linkage to free
it up. I've never had that problem with a 3 finger. The Centerforce is
supposed to resist this problem with it's weights on the fingers that
use centrifugal force to pull the fingers out, I've never tried one but
it sounds good.

The way I see it, is if you don't drag race or go out in the woods and
twist the truck around alot, the diaphram style is the way to go. If
you do then a Centerforce might be called for, or the old "Finger."
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:20:10 -0500
From: Don Yerhot
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE:360FE Swap

Sparky,
The biggest problem you may have is finding a rear sump oil pan. I
installed a 75 351W into a 82 F150 and had to use a rear sump oil pan
from a van to clear the crossmember. The passenger side exhaust
manifold, (Manifolds also from a van, 69 vintage) was also a real tight
against the frame. The frame mounts (to engine) from a small block would
probably work, but the engine will sit about 1.5 inches too low. This
would be a fun swap, but it's definitely not a bolt in. Good Luck!

DonY
65F250-351W-435NP
74F100-351W-3 On the Tree

I was just wondering if anyone knows if a 360FE with auto tranny could
be
succcessfully transplanted into a 80ish F Series? If so what problems
could
I expect?
The 360 is presently in my 73 F350 parts truck so I have access to all
the
motor mounts, brackets, etc, etc. As far as that goes the entire running

gear is in excellant shape in the F350, so I would like to use it.
The intended patient belongs to a friend of a friend so the truck
details
are a little sketchy at this early stage, I havent even seen it yet :^)
It
is an early 80's vintage with a dead engine, possibly a 300/6cyl. The
price
is right and I cant resist a bargain :) Besides it would be nice to get
another FE back on the road where it belongs.

Sparky
73 F250 4x4
390FE 2v

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:24:15 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Why I love this group

At 08:58 PM 4/19/99 , you wrote:
>Actually, I meant for this post to go directly to the user
>and sent it to the group by mistake. This type of post
>usually isn't my style.
>
>Ken Payne
>

That's okay Ken, I appreciated it.


Thanks,
wish
73ish F-1?? 4x4 360-->390 http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
96 Mustang GT
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:28:04 -0500
From: "Rusty Nail"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Removing AC

Has anybody taken off a factory A/C. I took mine off and just disconnected
the hoses. Does anybody know if this will effect the cooling system?

thanks for the input
rusty in kc
77 400m
- --
rnail mmgworldwide.com
S.Rusty Nail
816.472.5988 ext.183
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:35:22 -0400
From: "Parsons, Raymond"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 350 vs 500 CFM Holley

>> After going through all the advice on the list, I've finally determined
that my 72 F-100 does, in fact, have a rebuilt 302 engine. It needs a new
carb and I've been looking at a model 2300 Holley 2V in either 350 or 500
cfm
w/manual choke. If so, will it work for what I need it to do and
what cfm will best suit my needs...Thanks in advance>>
Bob:
I am running a 500 CFM Holley 2300 on a slightly modified 352; once you get
it set up it works great. Fuel mileage could be better, but I love the
responsiveness. If you are not comfortable tuning one, you will need to
find a shop that can as these carbs can be a bear to tune.
Ray

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:33:45 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dual Exhaust

> i don't want it to sound sorry since it is a 6 cylinder.


I don't think I've ever heard a 6 with a split manifold sound sorry ... the
6's that sound sorry to me are the one's that have a single glass pack in
the stock exhaust ... that's a sorry sound.

Is your truck a stick ? If so, split manifold, some old style glass packs
and you'll have all the hot rodders drooling :)

But that's just me, I still chuckle when I hear an old Ch*y with a split
exhaust manifold on a 6 ... they usually run their pipes pretty small so
they'll cackle when they let off, but I imagine with some decent sized
pipes you could get some good power through there ...



Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:34:36 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - hello from new poster

>the doors and the cab I am hopeing to be finished in July and have it at the
>Car craft car show at the Minnesota State fair grounds mid July

Hmm...is this the same one that all the hot-rodders go to ? Seems like Dad
mentioned one up there, but don't remember the date...who knows maybe we'll
see you up there ?


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:37:42 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Removing AC

At 08:28 AM 4/20/99 , you wrote:
>Has anybody taken off a factory A/C. I took mine off and just disconnected
>the hoses. Does anybody know if this will effect the cooling system?
>

The A/C shouldn't affect the cooling system, unless I'm misunderstanding
something, it is pretty much a self contained system. If you disconnected
the heater core (the hoses running to the manifold and waterpump from the
heater box), then you still won't really affect the cooling system, but you
may have a leak if you didn't plug those hoses ...

maybe someone else has seen a different system ...


Thanks,
wish
73ish F-1?? 4x4 360-->390 http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
96 Mustang GT
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:15:43 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan

Thanks for your message at 04:54 AM 4/20/99 PDT, Park Hunter. Your message
was:
>Seems like gasoline is getting into the oil pan. I assumed this was
>because of the heavy choke I had to run under before I got the plugs
>changed. However I changed the oil at the same time as the plugs and
>have been able to run little/no choke since. It looks like the oil is
>getting diluted again.
>
>I suspect the fuel pump as a culprit. Any place else that gasoline
>could leak down into the oil pan?

I would put my money on the fuel pump. I've been told this can get
dangerous, but I've never seen an engine explode from the crankcase
out....The more I think about it, I guess it could be a problem, not to
mention the wear on your bearings, etc...
Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:11:04 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - redline

Dave (or anyone else, but Dave is the undisputed M-block expert), what is
redline for a bone stock 79 351M 2V? Round figures will do. TIA.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Automotive Literature - Was: Owners Manual

A couple more places to look for auto literature.

Logan Gray
Beaverton, OR
(503) 292-7747 evenings

I got a '74 owners manual from them at the Portland Swap meet.

Powell's Books
Portland, OR
www.powells.com

This is a huge used bookstore. They keep their database very up to
date and it is searchable through the website. I drop in an search
for "Ford Truck" every once in a while. Got a complete set of '74
service manuals with not so much as a crease or fingerprint on them
for $45.

Mark in Southwest Washington
www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Transmission mounts - Was: Motor Mounts for 390 FE

wish wrote:
> I think I got really lucky this time, but it tells me that the
> tranny mount is pretty darned strong to start with ...

I tried to find transmission mounts for my '74 and the parts stores
kept giving me the wrong thing. I ended up at the Ford dealer and
he showed me in the microfiche that the mount changed in mid '74
and the earlier one is no longer available from Ford.

There is a cast bracket with two legs bolted somewhere between the
transfer case and transmission. I think this only applies if you
have a C6. The legs sit on two big cylindrical shaped rubber
mounts that sit on top of the crossmember. There are no other
attaching points for the motor/trans/transfer case. I don't
suppose anyone knows where I can get a new set of these mounts?

The next thing is when I mated the motor to the tranmission, the
whole assembly rocked back on these mounts and I couldn't get the
motor mount studs into the holes. Eventually, prying with a 2 x 4
on the back of the engine, they fell in, removing all the threads
on one side of one of the studs. I chased it with a die and all
is well. Bill, let me know if this happens to you too.

Mark in Southwest Washington
www.pacifier.com/~draco
- --
'74 F-100 4X4
'74 F-250 Supercab

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:51:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford76 webtv.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Power Steering

The pump on my truck has had it. It has a bracket that bolts to
another bracket with three bolts and is very easy to change. I do not
want to buy a new one can anyone tell me what years are compatible with
F250's from 1976? Almost forgot the truck is 2 wheel drive

Julia

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:55:10 -0500
From: "John R. Austin"
Subject: [none]

You guys are so helpful I want to test your knowledge yet again.
'67 F100 with rebuilt 300 - After the talk about using a vacuum guage to set
carb and timing, I went out and bought one. Reset both carb and timing until
I had the highest vacuum (about 20 lbs). Drove it and it was like a new
truck! Power, speed, smooth, great! Shut it off and tried to restart -
nothing, just the little solenoid click. Messed around thinking it was just
a coincidence and decided that starter had chosen that moment to quit.
Pulled it off, took it in, got it replaced under warranty. Put on the new
one, it started but very, very slowly. Cleaned cables, rebolted solenoid to
ground -- better but still very slow turn-over.
I began to wonder if changing the timing had done something, so I backed the
timing off to where it was before. Started right up but the engine was back
to barely running.
Now I'm confused. Anybody else encounted this?
Thanks,
John

Our Savior Lutheran Church
1101 Old Cleburne Road
Granbury, TX 76048
(817) 573-5011
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:07:24 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 6 cyl dual exhaust

At 07:10 AM 4/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> one question about exhaust. i have a 300 ci 6 cylinder in a 78 F-150
and it
>> is in need of a new exhaust system. it has the stock exhaust components on
>> it now and i was looking into putting duals on it but i wonder what it
would
>> sound like. i don't want it to sound sorry since it is a 6 cylinder. what
>> are some possilbe setups for the best sound i can get out of my exhaust
>> system. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Think I got this question covered.... 8-)

Let's just say that a 300 with Duals sounds like a Cessna taking off, a
John Deer Tractor, a Semi-Jake brake, umm.. what else.... 8-) Depending
on your TASTE it may sound sorry, or it may sound unique as hell! I've
grown to liking it... I think....

My '78 has a clifford 4V intake and dual exhaust manifolds off of a '88
F-150 with fuel injection-- dual mufflers, one turning out each side of the
truck in front of the tires. That's the way that I ran my true-duals...

Pictures:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony/pics/300-4v.jpg
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony/pics/n12.jpg

In my case I used an aftermarket intake which didn't require me to try to
fit the newer exh. manifolds to the old style intake-- as long as you can
separate the two of the stock ones you have and your intake isn't cracked
in the process, I see no reason why you couldn't run with the dual exh.
manifolds like I did off of a late model truck. They fit perfectly with
nothing special required but deep pockets for a new exh. system. Beware
of headers though-- they are a real PAIN to seal, and run right next to the
starter.

So, to sum up all of my hot air-- My '93 (also a 300-6) has a single 3 inch
pipe leading into a 3 chambered CHEBBIE muffler with dual 2 1/2 outlets and
then I run the duals straight back-- not a true dual system, but the sound
is throaty and deep... Something I never expected. My '78 is personal
taste... I'd stick with the single pipe to a large muffler-- you kinda need
the airflow to get the resonance tone the muffler is designed to work around.

My suggestion is-- don't run true duals, run into a dual muffler for a more
desired sound, and don't turn a pipe out to each side, but keep them on the
same side of the truck or straight
back. Carb'ed 6's run better with single pipe-- true dual I noticed a loss
in low end.

If you're in Ohio, you're more than welcom to come hear either one!

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:09:00 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:

>Now I'm confused. Anybody else encounted this?
>Thanks,
>John
>


This is very typical of too much advance on the timing ... what happens is
you're firing before the piston reaches top dead center, if you are too
much before, then the motor is fighting the starter ... ever seen a top
fuel dragster, or an old time muscle car with a wicked cam try to start,
they barely get rolling and the guy inside is trying to get the revs up as
quickly as possible. You'll need to experiment with your timing til you
find a point that it will start easily, not ping, and still give you the
power you want/need. A good choice might be to warm it up, shut it off,
bump the timing to 1/2 way between where it was with the vacuum gauge and
stock. If its too slow cranking still, cut the difference in half again
... eventually you'll find a spot you like and can live with for warm
starts .. might want to be conservative, as your battery wears down or your
plugs do, you'll find that things don't start quite the same.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:18:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford76 webtv.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Removing AC

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It should run a little a cooler because the condenser will not be
heating up anymore

Julia


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:28:04 -0500
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Removing AC
From: "Rusty Nail"
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Has anybody taken off a factory A/C. I took mine off and just disconnected
the hoses. Does anybody know if this will effect the cooling system?

thanks for the input
rusty in kc
77 400m
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816.472.5988 ext.183
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:18:22 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - redline

At 09:11 AM 4/20/99 , you wrote:
>Dave (or anyone else, but Dave is the undisputed M-block expert), what is
>redline for a bone stock 79 351M 2V? Round figures will do. TIA.
>
Will a 2V 351M pull to the redline ? :) Just kidding. I think your
redline would be more dependent on your trust of the guy who was messin
with it last ... is everything new ? In good shape ? A little worn ? I
think most motors will pull 5,000 pretty easy (V8's that is), runnin over
that ? I dunno, with a 2V you're already past your peak power most likely,
so there wouldn't be much performance benefit from it ... really for best
you want to run just over peak so when you shift you are on the other side
of the peak and headed over it again ...

Sorry I can't give you a concrete number, but I hope I explained why ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:27:53 PDT
From: "MARTY COLMAN"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE p/s

Does your 76 F250 4x4 FE with the newer style pump have the same
mounting brackets as the older round pump? Where the brackets bolt
together, are there three studs with nuts on the top and a long
horizontal bolt that tightens the belt? That is the type bracket
that is used for the round pump.

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:43:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford76 webtv.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: (no subject)

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Sorry I missed this thread but what rpm is best when timng by vacuum?

Julia


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To: "Ford Trucks 61-79"
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You guys are so helpful I want to test your knowledge yet again.
'67 F100 with rebuilt 300 - After the talk about using a vacuum guage to set
carb and timing, I went out and bought one. Reset both carb and timing until
I had the highest vacuum (about 20 lbs). Drove it and it was like a new
truck! Power, speed, smooth, great! Shut it off and tried to restart -
nothing, just the little solenoid click. Messed around thinking it was just
a coincidence and decided that starter had chosen that moment to quit.
Pulled it off, took it in, got it replaced under warranty. Put on the new
one, it started but very, very slowly. Cleaned cables, rebolted solenoid to
ground -- better but still very slow turn-over.
I began to wonder if changing the timing had done something, so I backed the
timing off to where it was before. Started right up but the engine was back
to barely running.
Now I'm confused. Anybody else encounted this?
Thanks,
John

Our Savior Lutheran Church
1101 Old Cleburne Road
Granbury, TX 76048
(817) 573-5011
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:55:25 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - redline

>From: John LaGrone
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - redline
>
>what is redline for a bone stock 79 351M 2V?
>Round figures will do. TIA.

Yo John:

I don't know for sure what the redline would be for a 1979 351M. I have seen
factory tachometers from '80s trucks w/ M-blocks, and they indicated a 5K to 6K
rpm redline. I don't know why they varied.

In stock trim, I doubt you could get a 351M up to 5K rpm anyway. W/ the stock
carb and intake setup, my 1980 351M 2V would wheeze out of breath by about 3.5K
to 4K rpm. Even when I leaned on it, I could barely get it past 4K rpm.

Dave R (M-blovck devotee)


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:58:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford76 webtv.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE p/s

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It does not have the three bolts with nuts on the top or the long
tension bolt. It has three bolts on the front bolting to another bracet
with a three inch tensioning bolt.

Julia


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From: "MARTY COLMAN"
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE p/s
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Does your 76 F250 4x4 FE with the newer style pump have the same
mounting brackets as the older round pump? Where the brackets bolt
together, are there three studs with nuts on the top and a long
horizontal bolt that tightens the belt? That is the type bracket
that is used for the round pump.

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:59:36 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: (no subject)

At 10:43 AM 4/20/99 , you wrote:
> Sorry I missed this thread but what rpm is best when timng by vacuum?
>
you want your idle set as low as it will go, probably 550-750 when you
start, your idle should jump up as you are tuning it, so be sure and set it
back down as you go ...

I should really get that page up and working properly


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:07:18 -0700
From: John & Iva McKay
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ford Red

When I went to paint my 360 before the install I found
paint labeled "Ford Red" at the local Autozone. I'd always
seen Ford Blue stuff but never red. Painted my 360 red
cause I like the color. Also shows off the valve covers
really well. Go to the web site below for a look at "Ford Red."
- --
John L. McKay
Mesa, Arizona
'67 F-100 Custom Cab
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~djspaints/ford.htm
Email: djspaints earthlink.net
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:28:29 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Red

May have been in reference to the old Ford Tractors-- Such as an 9N or an
8N... 8-)

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony


At 09:07 AM 4/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>When I went to paint my 360 before the install I found
>paint labeled "Ford Red" at the local Autozone. I'd always
>seen Ford Blue stuff but never red. Painted my 360 red
>cause I like the color. Also shows off the valve covers
>really well. Go to the web site below for a look at "Ford Red."
>--
>John L. McKay
>Mesa, Arizona
>'67 F-100 Custom Cab
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~djspaints/ford.htm
>Email: djspaints earthlink.net
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:48:27 PDT
From: "bill comstock"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 2 hose modulators

I have the 2 vacuum hoses coming from the modulator on my FMX. One
of them is directly to manifold vacuum, the other to carb I believe.
Am I correct in thinking this was to aid in deceleration? That is
the effect when vac lines are routed the same way the donor('73
ranchero) was. Works very well when coasting down hills. Any other
ideas as to why they were there in the first place?

- -chants to FTE oracles.............



Bill Comstock
ICQ# 31312855


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:19:49 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Motor Mounts for 390 FE

earlier, William wrote....

>I wouldn't be afraid of the stock ones, but if you really really want the
> upgrades, check with someone like James Duff, or Summit, I think they have
> Poly mounts for that ...

Yes, I agree that stock motor mounts would probably work just fine, but
perfect fan shrouds seem very hard to come by for a 69 F250 and I'd rather
install a heavy duty mount if it is available. Does anybody have more info
on "James Duff" or "Summit" or any other source of heavy duty motor mounts
for the FE big block?


Danger
danger csolutions.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/danger



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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:56:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 64 223 6-cyl, gas in oil pan

Dennis wrote:
> Park wrote:
> >Seems like gasoline is getting into the oil pan. I assumed this was
> >because of the heavy choke I had to run under before I got the plugs
> >changed. However I changed the oil at the same time as the plugs and
> >have been able to run little/no choke since. It looks like the oil is
> >getting diluted again.
> >
> >I suspect the fuel pump as a culprit. Any place else that gasoline

Bingo.

> >could leak down into the oil pan?
>
> I would put my money on the fuel pump. I've been told this can get
> dangerous, but I've never seen an engine explode from the crankcase
> out....The more I think about it, I guess it could be a problem, not to
> mention the wear on your bearings, etc...

Just a few years back (ha), high school auto shop. Someone
donated an old DeSoto, not running. The instructor picked up
a rebuilt starter for it, and had a few guys working on it
that didn't have cars. They installed the starter, and were
cranking the engine, trying to fire it up. They had a coffee
can full of gas to prime the engine. They put a LOT of gas
in the carb, and all of the sudden "BOOM". We were really
lucky no one was killed, the valve covers BLEW OFF the engine,
bolts still in the head, with three or four kids hanging over
the fenders looking on. The oil pan was also half blown off.
I don't know how it ignited, but it did . .
- --
Pat Brown
Nice mid-70's all week in Sebastopol, California
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:59:09 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Motor Mounts for 390 FE

>Yes, I agree that stock motor mounts would probably work just fine, but
>perfect fan shrouds seem very hard to come by for a 69 F250 and I'd rather
>install a heavy duty mount if it is available. Does anybody have more info
>on "James Duff" or "Summit" or any other source of heavy duty motor mounts
>for the FE big block?
>
>
Summit is www.summitracing.com, don't see anything on their site, but a
call might dig something up.

James Duff is mostly old bronco stuff, but they may be able to help out
(www.jamesduff.com)


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:07:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE p/s

Marty claims:
> Does your 76 F250 4x4 FE with the newer style pump have the same
> mounting brackets as the older round pump? Where the brackets bolt
> together, are there three studs with nuts on the top and a long
> horizontal bolt that tightens the belt? That is the type bracket
> that is used for the round pump.

Well, some round pumps anyway. Mine has a two piece bracket, bolted
at right angles. The larger looks like a lobster claw, with long
arced slots for adjustment. No tension bolt.
- --
Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:10:46 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ham Can P/S

"My first concern would be for brackets and pulleys - Can you get
>brackets to mount the ham can on an FE (390)?"
>
> My 76 f-250 4x4 came with the newer style pump on a FE.
>It's got a 2 piece bracket assy.1 piece bolts to engine,1 piece
>bolts to pump and then the 2 brackets bolt together.

Hmmm...what steering system do you have ? Is it integral, or the goofy
ram
setup ? I have a 76FE from a 4x2 that has the old style pump ...

The confusion continues ....

My 76 is a 4x and has the goofy system.
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:18:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail

John writes:
> You guys are so helpful I want to test your knowledge yet again.
> '67 F100 with rebuilt 300 - After the talk about using a vacuum guage to set
> carb and timing, I went out and bought one. Reset both carb and timing until
> I had the highest vacuum (about 20 lbs). Drove it and it was like a new
> truck! Power, speed, smooth, great! Shut it off and tried to restart -
> nothing, just the little solenoid click. Messed around thinking it was just
> a coincidence and decided that starter had chosen that moment to quit.
> Pulled it off, took it in, got it replaced under warranty. Put on the new
> one, it started but very, very slowly. Cleaned cables, rebolted solenoid to
> ground -- better but still very slow turn-over.
> I began to wonder if changing the timing had done something, so I backed the
> timing off to where it was before. Started right up but the engine was back
> to barely running.

John, as others have already posted, too much advance. What you
may have done is overcompensated the base timing to make up for
a bad vacuum or mechanical advance. Since you have the vacuum
gauge and timing light, did you buy the vacuum pump:-)? You can
check the vacuum advance at idle with the pump (or, you could
just suck on the hose - yuk!). Then leave the vacuum disconnected,
rev the engine to check the mech advance. One other thought, is
your truck a California truck (smog equipped)? It may have a
dual diaphram distributor (two hose vacuum advance/retard),
thermal cut-offs, etc to check out!
- --
Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick Jessee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - air compressor

I am putting onboard air on a '77f250 4x4 i was wonder ing if it made
any diffrence if the compressor(ex ac comprssor)was mounted vertically
or horizontally.

also does anyone have any experince with the bfg mud terrain tires?






_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:32:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick Jessee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - swap

I was wondering will the fe block mount up to the 429/460 bellhousing
or does it have a bolt pattern all to itself
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:29:33 -0400
From: "Serian"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 360FE Swap

Sparky said:
> I was just wondering if anyone knows if a 360FE with
>auto tranny could be succcessfully transplanted into a
>80ish F Series? If so what problems could I expect?

I considered the same idea at one point, and did some
preliminary measurements, but never actually started
dismantling things. From what I can tell, it is theoretically
possible, though probably very challenging ...

> The 360 is presently in my 73 F350 parts truck so I have
>access to all the motor mounts, brackets, etc, etc.

The 80-86 mount brackets are way different from the 73-79
ones ... your 73 F350 brackets wont fit :-I

>As far as that goes the entire running gear is in excellant
>shape in the F350, so I would like to use it. The intended
>patient belongs to a friend of a friend so the truck details
>are a little sketchy at this early stage, I havent even seen it yet :^)
>It is an early 80's vintage with a dead engine, possibly a
>300/6cyl. The price is right and I cant resist a bargain :)

If it is a I6-300, I *think* (but not precisely sure) that the distance
between the rear face of the engine and the bolts on the FE
motor mounts are the same. If this is so, everything else
will fit in very nicely (80-86's were designed for the possibility
of a C6, so the worst needed here might be to reverse the
transmission crossmember. You will definitely need the
transmission off the FE... it uses its own design of bellhousing
and the I6-300 uses the small block Windsor bellhousing
pattern. The 300 uses a different length and style of throttle
cable between the gas pedal and the carb, so you will have
to nab one out of a V8 setup. I think these are universal, so
one out of a car might do. The 80-86's use a spring/plunger
on-a-cable thingy, and the 73-79's use a lever arm off the
pedal with a short cable to the carb. The radiator may need
to be changed, and the 80-86 uses a vastly different radiator
type than the 73-79. You will want a radiator designed to
cool a 351-400 (or better) that bolts into the 80-86 if it does
not already have one. The alternator from the 80-86 should be
used in the 80-86 ... the bolt holes that mounts it to the brackets
and head are the same shape and in the same place, but the
wiring is different .. the alternator in my 83 has the wiring
mounted on the rear of the alt, and the alternator for my '74
mercury has the wiring mounted in the side, and uses
different harnesses and plugs. The power steering pump
from the FE should work well, but you might have to change the
high pressure hose .. some are made with a female end, and
some with a male end where it attaches to the pump itself.
From what I have seen, the end that attaches at the steering
box, and the low pressure return hose are identical on all 76-86's.
Other than this, I cant think of anything else right offhand, so
as long as you can get the FE to fit in so that it is bolted down,
and the rear face of the engine block is in the same location
relative to the rest of the truck as the original engine was, this
is a possible swap (even if the Ford books say it isn't ... heh
this group is too inventive to just go by the books !)

>Besides it would be nice to get another FE back on the road
>where it belongs.

Aye ! The more good old reliable solid iron engines out there,
the better. Keep us posted on what ya find out ... this looks
like a rather interesting project !





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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:20:59 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - swap

>I was wondering will the fe block mount up to the 429/460 bellhousing
>or does it have a bolt pattern all to itself
>_________________________________________________________

Different pattern ... 429/460 shares with 351M/C/400


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:25:21 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - swap

At 02:20 PM 4/20/99 , you wrote:
>>I was wondering will the fe block mount up to the 429/460 bellhousing
>>or does it have a bolt pattern all to itself
>>_________________________________________________________
>
>Different pattern ... 429/460 shares with 351M/C/400
>
>
Before anyone flames me (again? :) I didn't mean to hit the C ... sorry
DaveR ... the C has the same as the windsor right ? Should just be
351M/400 ....

whew ... that was close


Thanks,
wish
73ish F-1?? 4x4 360-->390 http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
96 Mustang GT
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:12:56 -0500
From: "John R. Austin"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail

Appreciate your response. When you say I can check the vacuum advance by
sucking on the hose, does that mean I just have it running, suck on the hose
connected to the distributor. What should happen?
Thanks,
John

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Brown
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 1:18 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail


> John writes:
> > You guys are so helpful I want to test your knowledge yet again.
> > '67 F100 with rebuilt 300 - After the talk about using a vacuum guage to
set
> > carb and timing, I went out and bought one. Reset both carb and timing
until
> > I had the highest vacuum (about 20 lbs). Drove it and it was like a new
> > truck! Power, speed, smooth, great! Shut it off and tried to restart -
> > nothing, just the little solenoid click. Messed around thinking it was
just
> > a coincidence and decided that starter had chosen that moment to quit.
> > Pulled it off, took it in, got it replaced under warranty. Put on the
new
> > one, it started but very, very slowly. Cleaned cables, rebolted solenoid
to
> > ground -- better but still very slow turn-over.
> > I began to wonder if changing the timing had done something, so I backed
the
> > timing off to where it was before. Started right up but the engine was
back
> > to barely running.
>
> John, as others have already posted, too much advance. What you
> may have done is overcompensated the base timing to make up for
> a bad vacuum or mechanical advance. Since you have the vacuum
> gauge and timing light, did you buy the vacuum pump:-)? You can
> check the vacuum advance at idle with the pump (or, you could
> just suck on the hose - yuk!). Then leave the vacuum disconnected,
> rev the engine to check the mech advance. One other thought, is
> your truck a California truck (smog equipped)? It may have a
> dual diaphram distributor (two hose vacuum advance/retard),
> thermal cut-offs, etc to check out!
> --
> Pat Brown
> Sebastopol, California
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:18:23 -0700
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - air compressor

Nick Jessee wrote:

> I am putting onboard air on a '77f250 4x4 i was wonder ing if it made
> any diffrence if the compressor(ex ac comprssor)was mounted vertically
> or horizontally.
>
> also does anyone have any experince with the bfg mud terrain tires?

I run the compressor upright. It most really shouldn't matter as they were
used both ways as A/C. I just want that little extra insurance against
oil intrusion into the air system.

As far as the BFG's go. Great tire. The M/T's seem to wear a little
faster with lots of highway miles but off road they grab rocks well and
clean easily in mud with a little tire spin. If they made a 38" they would
really have something.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net

99 Contour SE Sport
63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:36:41 -0500
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Red

The Ford red paint I used on my Tranny (which is supposedly the color it
came with) is known as Thunderbird red or Chrysler red. They are the same.
It is more (chebby) orange than red (am I right here Tony??). The original
NP435 paint and the canned paint I bought from Eastwood Comapny matched
great! I have found they really make a very good quality aerosal product
even if they are a buck or two more per can. It really goes on nicely.

The red on McKay's page looks like Ford tractor red like the old 801 we
used to have years ago. I like it personally!! Nice job John. The
engine looks sharp!

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

At 09:07 AM 4/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
>When I went to paint my 360 before the install I found
>paint labeled "Ford Red" at the local Autozone. I'd always
>seen Ford Blue stuff but never red. Painted my 360 red
>cause I like the color. Also shows off the valve covers
>really well. Go to the web site below for a look at "Ford Red."
>--
>John L. McKay
>Mesa, Arizona
>'67 F-100 Custom Cab
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~djspaints/ford.htm
>Email: djspaints earthlink.net
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>
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:04:48 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - air compressor

> I am putting onboard air on a '77f250 4x4 i was wonder ing if it made
> any diffrence if the compressor(ex ac comprssor)was mounted vertically
> or horizontally.

The pumps can be mounted either horiz or vert, but if it's horizontal it
needs to be mounted with the intake side *up*.
There's an internal passage that vents the crankcase back to the
inlet and if the pump is mounted inlet side down all the crankcase
oil will end up in the cylinders...


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

"There are no stupid questions... just stupid people."

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:07:59 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - redline

>From: William S Hart
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - redline
>
>Will a 2V 351M pull to the redline ?

Yo Bill:

Probably not in its stock configuration.

>with a 2V you're already past your peak
>power most likely, so there wouldn't be
>much performance benefit from it ...

Since last summer, I've been using a 1982 Mustang GT Motorcraft 2V carb on my
stock 1980 351M and it has done wonders for throttle response, power, and higher
rpm breathing. I swapped in the Mustang carb and added the Mustang's stock
phenolic spacer on top of the (disabled) stock EGR spacer on the stock intake
manifold. Now my otherwise stock (except cam timing) 351M w/ stock DuraSpark II
ignition revs willingly to about 4.5K rpm, and if I keep my foot in it, it'll go
up well past 5K rpm.

Interestingly, even though I regularly romp on it, I still get as good or better
mileage than the original Motorcraft truck carb.

On another topic:
>the C has the same as the windsor right?

Correct, the 351C uses the same bell housing bolt pattern as the later 289 and
the 302, and 351W.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:14:34 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - redline

>Since last summer, I've been using a 1982 Mustang GT Motorcraft 2V carb on my
>stock 1980 351M and it has done wonders for throttle response, power, and
>higher
>Interestingly, even though I regularly romp on it, I still get as good or
>better
>mileage than the original Motorcraft truck carb.
>

I had one of those cars, man that little car was great! Its the only 2V
I've ever gotten to actually "ring" when I tromped on it ... for a 2V I....


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