61-79-list-digest Sunday, April 4 1999 Volume 03 : Number 114



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - np205 trans fluid or ?
FTE 61-79 - np205 90wt or ATF?
FTE 61-79 - Dan's Rebuild (Long Overdue)
FTE 61-79 - gear lube and cheap diesel
FTE 61-79 - Gas Prices
FTE 61-79 - Engine blue-printing techniques
FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 Re: Newbie Tim's page/Carlisle/SWMBO
FTE 61-79 - power assist steering problem
FTE 61-79 - Number 2 / Van interiors
FTE 61-79 - auto trans to 292 y-block
Re: FTE 61-79 - np205 90wt or ATF?
FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
FTE 61-79 - (no subject)
Re: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Gas prices
FTE 61-79 - 460 - Rings
RE: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
Re: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
FTE 61-79 - timing question

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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:28:01 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - np205 trans fluid or ?

>I agree, you can get away with 80wt in
>warm/tropical conditions, but if anybody out there has tried to drive that
>soupy molassas in 10 degree weather, SWITCH!!! It's a PROFOUND difference!
> 8-)

>Tony
>tony pscico.com
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony

A PROFOUND message from a PROFOUND man.....I wouldn't mess with Marino if I
were you!!!!

CJ







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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:28:09 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - np205 90wt or ATF?

> I've used 80/90w gear lube for 105k miles in my NP205 without problem. I'd
> use 50w only for very cold climates. Auto Trans fluid is for the chain
> driven T-cases and is not to be used in a gear drive T-case.

The 50Wt engine oil has roughly the same viscosity as 80-90 gear oil,
according to a chart I saw somewhere(I can't remember where). The
difference is the presence of sulphur in the additive package of the
gear oil to give it it's EP specification.

Transmissions and transfer cases really don't need EP oil. It's really
for hyphoid gears, a single tooth contact being the fulcrum for motion
instead of many meshed points of contact as in a a trans or T-Case. In
fact EP will dog down your syncros to the point of clashing when you
have some wear present. Sulphur and some bushing and bearing metals
aren't compatabile either.

I've used EP too in gearboxes, for years. But when I switched to the
Mobiltrans SHC50 I found out how smooth an NP435 can be. It performs in
10 degree weather just like it's 90 degrees out. The Dana 24 rolls so
much easier, again it performs in cold weather just like it's
mid-summer. And it's quieter, so I know it's not too thin. This stuff
is synthetic, and that's the key, I think to it's performance. I don't
know about the long term yet, but Eaton requires it to be used in their
transmissions (over-the-road-trucks)to honor their 750,000 mile
warranty. And that's with 250,000 mile drain intervals. It's got to be
good stuff.
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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:49:54 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dan's Rebuild (Long Overdue)

> Just one thing caught my eye, but I'm pretty sure you are OK. The FE's had
> the motor mounts changed sometime in the early-mid 60's, I think after 63.
> What I'm getting at is that I hope the motor mounts from the 61 (two-bolt,
> I'm pretty sure) will bolt right into the 63 truck. I remember having this
> happen once, building an old 390 and when I went to put it in, the mounts
> didn't work in my 69'! I had to fabricate some brackets, which was no big
> deal and they worked for several years, but I just usually check this out now
> with a new block...

You won't find original side mounts to fit an FE in a '61-'64 truck.
They used a front mount and rear bell housing mounts. The 65-66 4X4's
should have the right bracket to bolt to your front cover, as they were
the only FE's to use this mounting system AFAIK. Question: What kind
of mounting does the '67 up 4X4's use? Anyway, you have long bolts and
spacers that go between the bracket and front cover. The two piece
mount cost me $85 when I replaced it including a new through bolt. It
might be that the 292 mount bracket could be modified to work, but I
can't say from experience that you can. That would require some
cipherin'.

The twin mounting bolt blocks came out in '65. I've had to do the same
thing you did and make brackets to fit a '64 390 to a '66 F100. Not a
big deal, but not pretty either.
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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 06:54:23 PST
From: "Don Jones"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - gear lube and cheap diesel

> Dear Ford Truck Fans,
> I have a 78 4x4. Does my tranfer case take Auto
trans fluid or 140W/gear
> lube? I am confused. FIG

It takes SAE 50 motor oil for summer or SAE 30 in cold weather.
I split the difference and put #40 motor oil in mine last fall. It had
heavier gear oil in it when i got it and was really hard to shift. The
motor oil made it shift much better.
There was a thread here last fall about this subject that discussed the
reasons for using motor oil rather than gear oil.


>>>Just a thought... could heating oil or K-1 be burned in a diesel
motor?

Yup.. it will work.. In many places its exactly the same stuff except
for the colouring added to furnace oil to show that it is exempt from
road tax. My local Esso dealer told me that they actually sell
coloured diesel for farm and marine use from the same tanks as #1
heating oil.

Don Jones
1970 f-250 4x4 ~~Fordzilla~~
1985 f-150 sc ~FOR SALE~
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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:55:00 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Gas Prices

> Just a thought... could heating oil or K-1 be burned in a diesel motor?
> They are called oil burners by some people and I have heard of some people
> burning vegetable oil (like from resturant fry vats) in a diesel.

I wondered why that truck I was following the other day was spitting
french fries out the tailpipe...
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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:41:59 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Engine blue-printing techniques

>
> Earlier someone was describing using clay to check for valve to piston
> interference. I know the engine must be assembled and then disassembled to
> check this. My question is what do you do with the head gasket. I thought
> the head gasket was a "crush once" kind of thing and could not be reused
> once it had been clamped between a head and block. Do you mock the engine
> up with out a gasket and then add the advertised compressed thickness to the
> measurment? Do you buy extra gaskets to use for the mockup?

I've always located the cylinder that has the piston coming up the
closest to the top, and the smallest cup or relief volume and used the
clay on it.(be sure to sprinkle baby powder on the crown and on the top
of the clay so it doesn't stick)
You'll have to use a head gasket of the same compressed thickness. I've
used a cheap Victor to test with, then used the Fel-Pros to assemble
it. But it must be the same compressed thickness.

I'll share another thing I do when torquing a head down. Go through the
normal process of torquing it to full torque. Then let it sit for 30
minutes. Go back and back the bolts off an eighth turn (just enough to
break the torque) and squeeze it back up to full torque(do it one bolt
at a time, back off and torque).

It stretches the bolts better, and increases the clamping force without
stress build-up.
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:08:58 -0500
From: "Tim Green"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 Re: Newbie Tim's page/Carlisle/SWMBO

>From: Rob Long
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Newbie Tim's page
>
>Tim... I didn't catch your web page.... what's the address?
>
>Rob

www.ctel.net/~oldfords Check it often. Lots more to come. 1998 Truck show
pics coming soon. Gotta scan 'em.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----

>From: Dennis Pearson
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 Carlisle shows
>
>Carlisle is where?
>
>Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

>1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
>1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
>1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
>I shortened this to only FT's
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, at junction of I-76 (Pa turnpike) & I-81. Bit of a
haul from WA!! Bad enuf from Maine.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------

>From: "Bill Beyer"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE 61-79 SWMBO/Project time management
>
>She Who Must Be Obeyed.
>
>"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

Thanx, I knew it would be obvious.
My ex is remarried & my adult (almost 20) daughter is moving out (again) so
if I could just get rid of the full time job but keep the income and get a
maintenance crew for my clapped-out house, then I could live, eat, sleep, &
breathe nothing but my FORDS! Fat chance.

Tim
66 F-100 428 P.I. (Screaming Yellow Zonker)
55 Mainline 289 (The Flivver)
87 Mustang 2.3
81 Mustang 2.3
87 F150 4.9
www.ctel.net/~oldfords



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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:44:04 -0600
From: Kirk Baillie
Subject: FTE 61-79 - power assist steering problem

Hi I am a new owner of a 74 f250 3/4ton 4X4 and I have many question to
ask but this is the one I wll ask now.

The power assist does not to work very well when I turn to the right,
But it works perfectly fine when I turn to the left. Could this be a
problem with the pump or lines...

Also how does one find out the specification of the truck ex.)
differentials, tranny... I know the t.case is a NP205 but would like to
know about the rest.

Thanks
Kirk Baillie
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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:11:58 -0800
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Number 2 / Van interiors

"From what I understand there are two types of deisel.
#1, and #2. One of them is used in colder climates during the winter.
One of them is the same as heating oil."

#1 is the higher grade of the two.
The diference between #2 diesel and heating oil is color.
Heating oil is red,which means no road tax has been paid on it.
Not sure what color #2 diesel is.
#1 is the higher grade of the two.
You can also run a diesel on Jet A (kerosene)

"Just a thought... could heating oil or K-1 be burned in a diesel
motor?"

What's K-1?

"I tried both Masonite and panelling for a comparison and I
think I will go with the panneling."

I would go with the paneling.Using poster board or cardboard for
patterns would make the job much easier.And remember the golden rule
of carpentry:Measure twice, cut once.
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Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:26:37 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - auto trans to 292 y-block

>I have a pretty straightforward question:
>
>Will a C-6 Automatic Transmission, flex plate and bell housing bolt-up to my
>Y-Block 292? How about a C-4, although I'd rather use a C-6, since it's an
>F-250.
>
>It sounds too good to work, but I have to ask.
>
No, you won't find a C4 or C6 that will fit a Y-block as the last year for
the Y-block was 1964 in the trucks and they only came with the FMX auto
trans. The first year for the C4 was '64 and '66 for the C6 (wonder if
that's how they got the names? It fits with Ford's part numbering system).
But that's ok, the FMX is a tougher trans than a C4 IMO. Now, the C4 has
a seperate bell-housing, just like the FMX, so, if you have a bellhousing
from an FMX that will fit the Y-block pattern, will a C4 body go behind it?
I don't know the answer to that, but again, it's probably not worth the
trouble to find out. Just put an FMX back there like Ford intended and go on.

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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:46:23 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - np205 90wt or ATF?

In a message dated 4/3/99 6:33:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, ballingr ldd.net
writes:


according to a chart I saw somewhere(I can't remember where). The
difference is the presence of sulphur in the additive package of the
gear oil to give it it's EP specification.
>>

Thank you, thank you, I mentioned this a couple of months ago and got dumped
on for 2 weeks. But, you gave a much better explaination.
Burt Hill Kennewick Wa 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:55:27 -0600
From: wiregoat juno.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO

I have noticed that no matter how often a newbie asks what a SWMBO is or
what SWMBO stands for, y'all will not respond. Perhaps if a person does
not already know what SWMBO stands for, then telling him won't help. Or
maybe it is a private joke among the oldtimers. That is just the old
people are. ;). My SWMBO and I think this is unfair. Please tell me so
that I can explain it to my SWMBO.



Old programmers never die. They just terminate and stay resident.

___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:01:47 EST
From: JBurg5055 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - (no subject)

I recently purchased a 63 F100 and quickly found that service manuals,
owner's manuals, parts, etc. are scarce. Just a few questions to get me
started until I can track down a service manual. It has a 223 inline 6
cylinder with a 3 speed transmission. Right now I just need to know the
point gap, timing setting, and plug gap and as an afterthought, what oil to
use in the tranny and rear end and can anyone give me a source for
service/owner's manuals? Thanks for the help.

John
Pittsburg, CA
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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:27:42 -0500
From: "Ted & Sarah Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO

She Who Must Be Obeyed - SWMBO
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 8:55 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO


> I have noticed that no matter how often a newbie asks what a SWMBO is or
> what SWMBO stands for, y'all will not respond. Perhaps if a person does
> not already know what SWMBO stands for, then telling him won't help. Or
> maybe it is a private joke among the oldtimers. That is just the old
> people are. ;). My SWMBO and I think this is unfair. Please tell me so
> that I can explain it to my SWMBO.
>
>
>
> Old programmers never die. They just terminate and stay resident.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 23:39:08 -0500
From: cannandale netpointe.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Gas prices

we use k-1 in our tractors in winter here at home to keep the diesel from
turing to jello when it gets cold. but i dont knwo about running pure k1
or anything else..

cannandale
'78 F250 4x4, 460


At 11:05 AM 4/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Just a thought... could heating oil or K-1 be burned in a diesel motor?
>They are called oil burners by some people and I have heard of some people
>burning vegetable oil (like from resturant fry vats) in a diesel.
>
>Tom H
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 23:44:00 -0500
From: cannandale netpointe.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 - Rings

Well, ive just got my 460 back from the machine shop, they bored it .030
over, ground and polished the crank, and put the rods on my new kb pistons
(i love to brag), and got new cam bearings and freeze plugs in, all for
$148. Now comes my part, putting it back togethor, i ordered a set of
chrom-moly rings from summit, and need to put them in next. I've heard ppl
talk about gapping the rings, what does that mean and how do you do it?
The only rings ive been it was brigs & stratton, so...

oh yea, if somebody had the complete pulley and bracket set up for a truck
for a 460 (including a/c compressor york style)and are willing to sell,
tell me, ive yet to find one..

thanx,
cannandale
'78 F250 4x4, 460


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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:49:32 -0600
From: "Rick Russell"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO

This clipping here was posted yesterday !

She Who Must Be Obeyed.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim Green
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:10 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 SWMBO/Project time management


>That reminds me of a question I have. I know WHO SWMBO is, but what exactly
>do the letters stand for? Yes, I checked the FAQ first!

Rick Russell
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/rrussell/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of wiregoat juno.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 7:55 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - SWMBO
>
>
> I have noticed that no matter how often a newbie asks what a SWMBO is or
> what SWMBO stands for, y'all will not respond. Perhaps if a person does
> not already know what SWMBO stands for, then telling him won't help. Or
> maybe it is a private joke among the oldtimers. That is just the old
> people are. ;). My SWMBO and I think this is unfair. Please tell me so
> that I can explain it to my SWMBO.
>
>
>
> Old programmers never die. They just terminate and stay resident.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:53:54 -0800 (PST)
From: TheFORDMAN ....


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