61-79-list-digest Friday, December 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 571



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - RE-460 ID...Is it time to get sick?
FTE 61-79 - Stuffing a 429 into a 64 F100
: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Explorer
FTE 61-79 - Unibody VIN Numbers
FTE 61-79 - 1970 F100 Explorer
FTE 61-79 - Governor Schmovernor
FTE 61-79 - 3X2 carbs
Re: FTE 61-79 - 3X2 carbs
FTE 61-79 - Looking for Axil Info.
FTE 61-79 - Intro and Fuel tank inlet hose
FTE 61-79 - 360 to 360 Swap...
RE: FTE 61-79 - 1970 F100 Explorer
FTE 61-79 - Re: 240/300 6 cylinder high performance buildup .. HELP
FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 240/300 6 cylinder high performance buildup .. HELP
Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?
FTE 61-79 - 300-6 fan
FTE 61-79 - OD tranny's...
Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 300-6 fan

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:54:35 -0600
From: "Darkside"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE-460 ID...Is it time to get sick?

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:13:30 -0500
From: "Matthew Schwartz"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 ID...Is it time to get sick?

I had purchased a 1978 PAW kit for a supposed 78 460. I have built the
motor
in total when I ran into the problem of priming the oil system. This
lead me
to the response below. I have a 71 460 that has a different deck
height then
the 1978.PAW kit I installed. Now for the gut wrenching question.

Is my engine build doomed to failure? or is the oil pump my only
problem.
How about connecting rods and pistons specs., lifters, cam, bearings
etc.
Will the difference in deck height kill my project? I am using the
original
block, heads and valve train minus the cam and lifters.

Any comments? Please! My project has stopped dead in its tracks.

Matt


Matt,
I didn't get all the details, but I have run into this a few times.
All that you need to do is insure that the oil pump will work with
your pan, some pumps require mods to work with rear sump pans, ( I.E.
die grinder work.) Install the pump, drive and distributor, make sure
that the drive can move up and down about 1/32 of an inch. As long as
it has some up and down movement, you know that the drive isn't in a
bind. If you don't have the movement, grind the end of the drive until
you do. ( Don't let the drive get hot, keep a small can of water
nearby to dip the drive into during the grinding process.) After you
know that you don't have a binding problem and your ready to install
the drive for the final time, put something on the distributor end of
the drive to hold it in place in the distributor I.E. black RTV. This
will also keep you from hearing your drive fall into your pan during
future distributor changes. I hope this will help the oil pump drive
problem, as long as your using the same block, heads, crank, rods and
pistons from the original motor, you shouldn't incur any more
problems. Email me the casting #'s from the heads and block and I'll
tell you what they are.

Curtis Bussey
Curts Customs
curtscustm wwisp.com

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:10:20 -0800
From: Art Verling
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Stuffing a 429 into a 64 F100

A month ago I bought a 64 F100 with a perfect body, new interior, new wheels and tires. Someone a very long time ago put a 390 and a C6 in it. The 390 is very tired (leaks oil from the rear main seal) but still runs. The exhaust manifolds have numerous bolts broken off (3 out of 4 on the top). I came across a guy who has an old tbird with a 429, C6, a 9"rear end, and a new radiator. I am trying to decide whether to rebuild the 390 or "stuff" this 429 into my truck. I know that I will have to install new motor and trans mounts to put the 429 in. Will the radiator or the rear end be any good to me? am I going to gain anything but headaches from doing this?......I want to use this truck as a daily driver. Any help would be appreciated.

As soon as the pictures are developed I will put them on my website and you can see the truck.
Thanks,
Art Verling (Reno, NV)
AV ix.netcom.com

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:01:18 -0600
From: "J Elliott"
Subject: : Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Explorer

>I have a 1970 F-100 (Explorer ?). Did Ford offer a Explorer that year
>according to my information the Explorer came out in 1971

Check Fordguy's web site http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://web.p3.net/~shoman/ It lists the various
features that occured from 67-72, and shows that Ford introduced the
Explorer package in '69. I have a '69 Explorer that like yours

>offered
>car type wheel covers (long gone), chrome bumper guards, (still there),
>chrome side rails (still have the holes in the bed), and a Explorer
>badge on the glove box (still there).

Exactly the same with mine on all points. It is a 360 w/C6, and power
steering. I think also part of the package was the western swing-away
mirrors and chrome headliner and windshield trim, both of which I have. I
suspect it also had the chrome drip rail trim and trim around the FORD on
the tailgate which mine is missing, but shows evidence of prior existence.
The VIN on mine checks out.

Jim E.



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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:55:16 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Unibody VIN Numbers

>We have an early 60's model Unibody Ford Truck. We cannot locate the VIN
>number. Does anyone know where this number is suppose to be or was it the
>original engine serial number.
>
On my '61 Unibody it was on the inside of the glovebox door.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:55:17 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1970 F100 Explorer

>I have a 1970 F-100 (Explorer ?). Did Ford offer a Explorer that year
>according to my information the Explorer came out in 1971 and offered
>car type wheel covers (long gone), chrome bumper guards, (still there),
>chrome side rails (still have the holes in the bed), and a Explorer
>badge on the glove box (still there). All the signes are there saying
>it's an Explorer but my book says it was not introduced then. Can
>anyone shed some light on this?
>
Actually, the first Explorer, such as it was, came out in either 1968 or
1969. Not totally sure but at first, they weren't officially called
Explorers. They were called "White Sale Trucks". Somewhere along the line
Ford started using the name Explorer. I do not think they ever put such
information in the regular dealer literature, the Explorer was sort of a
"special value package" which put a bunch of options together in a package
for one price. They had 3 packages as I recall, A, B, and C. You could
order the package on top of the normal trim level, such that you could have
an Explorer-Ranger, if you so desired. So, to sum up, there WAS an
Explorer in 1970, just not sure if it is supposed to be badged as such at
that time. I think if you can verify that it IS a 1970 model, then
probably it is a late '70 (the VIN can tell you that as well). Hope this
helps.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:07:49 -0800
From: Sean Hess
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Governor Schmovernor

Fellow Fordites,

I just got a set of '69 Ford truck manuals for Xmas - YAHOO! Anyway, I was
looking through some of the sections about velocity governors, and apparently
manual tranny 360s/390s had a coolant-warmed velocity gov. Auto tranny
360s/390s had a gov. without any coolant hoses.

My truck used to be a 390, but someone stuck a 360 into it later. I suspect
that the 360 came out of a truck with a manual tranny because it has a
coolant-warmed velocity gov, but the truck has a C-6 rather than a manual
tranny. On a manual tranny truck, Ford would have routed coolant back into the
system, but the hose leading out of the back of the velocity gov. has been cut
and plugged with a bolt secured by a pipe clamp. The hose leading into the
front of the velocity gov. is still connected to the cooling system on my
truck. Thus my following questions:

1) Does the current set up adversely affect performance? I keep having this
problem with a bog as I start up from low throttle, and I was wondering if this
could be the problem.

2) What would happen if I removed the velocity gov. entirely? Should it be
replaced with a carb spacer of equal thickness? What if I plugged the front of
the velocity gov. as well?

Dr. Hess
Portland, Oregon
F-250 Ranger
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:39:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 3X2 carbs

>Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:43:09 -0500
>From: "The Freeman Family"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 3X2 intakes
>
>I figure I can start with the manifold and start looking for the carbs and
>linkage. Maybe some one at the Forge will have some this year. As far as
>the 410 build up, I have a 4v manifold I'm going to start with and then
>convert it to the 3x2 once I find all the necessary parts.

Ted,
Try Pony carbs up in New York, I think it is Woodstock or New Woodstock.
Anyway, Pony carbs has a URL, don't knwo it off the top of my head. They
can fix you up but I would say hang on to the old wallet, I imagine it will
be costly.

Another place that had a 3X2 setup last year is Dove Manufacturing in Ohio

1-216-236-5139 telephone.....the area code may have changed to 330, You'll
have to try them both. Dove makes alot of old FE stuff and is also pricy.
I think he was wanting 1,000 bucks for a 3x2 set up copmplete with intake
and carbs and linkage. That's about the going rate for something so
special......I hope you knwo how to tune one as I have heard they can be
quite tricky. Good luck, I'd like to see that bad boy when you get done.

Dove Manufacturing
P.O. Box 1003
27100 Royalton Road
Columbia Station, Ohio 44028

ask for a catalog too. Very interesting stuff!

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:08:59 -0500
From: "The Freeman Family"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 3X2 carbs

Stu,

I figured it would be up there in that range and thanks for the info. I'll
put this one away for later reference. I got the manifold in today and
looks Great! Very, very clean! It's an Edlebroke though. Actually, I
didn't know they made one. It's very light compared to my stock 4v. I may
try my hand at polishing it as well. Never done that on a manifold.

I went to the Holman-Moody site the other day and believe it or not they
have an 8x1v for an FE. Neat looking setup. They use 8 single barrel
webbers. Talk about a tuning nightmare.

As far as mine go...nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Later,

- -Ted
>Try Pony carbs up in New York, I think it is Woodstock or New
Woodstock.
>Anyway, Pony carbs has a URL, don't knwo it off the top of my head. They
>can fix you up but I would say hang on to the old wallet, I imagine it will
>be costly.
>
>Another place that had a 3X2 setup last year is Dove Manufacturing in Ohio
>
>1-216-236-5139 telephone.....the area code may have changed to 330, You'll
>have to try them both. Dove makes alot of old FE stuff and is also pricy.
>I think he was wanting 1,000 bucks for a 3x2 set up copmplete with intake
>and carbs and linkage. That's about the going rate for something so
>special......I hope you knwo how to tune one as I have heard they can be
>quite tricky. Good luck, I'd like to see that bad boy when you get
done.>




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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:42:52 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Looking for Axil Info.

In/during what models/years was the Dana 60 rev. rotation or high pinion
front axil used?
What is the most common gear ratio for this axil?
Anyone have one just sitting around in the Portland Or. Area?
Thanks to all.
Muel


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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:05:41 EST
From: Brazzadog aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Intro and Fuel tank inlet hose

My name is Ben and I'm Ford junkie. I have been mostly lurking on and off
for about 2 years. I have a '78 F-250 4x4. It has been used, abused,
neglected, and abused some more but it's never let me down. I got it about 8
years ago and it just turned 80K on the odo. I've been off the list for a few
months so I thought it would be good to let everyone know I'm here (again).

I couldn't let this fuel filler hose thread go by. For once I seem to have
something useful to contribute. About a year and half ago I needed to replace
a bunch of 1.75" and 2" fuel line for my duel tank setup that fills through
one hole (non-Ford vehicle). Napa wanted $9 a foot and couldn't get me
anything but 2" and only had 3 lengths. I finally went to an industrial hose
supply place that did custom hydraulic lines and supplied the agrucultural
fuel line needs for the area. They had any diameter you could imagine up to
about 2.75" (I think) and happily sold me whatever length I needed. The 2"
stuff was $5 a foot. I bought extra and keep it around in case I need to make
repairs.

Ben Williams
'78 F-250 4x4



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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:12:44 PST
From: "Tim Neasham"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 360 to 360 Swap...

Okay guys, I need some advice. I'm in the middle of a 360 to 360 swap.
Actually, supposed to be near complete, but I have a feeling it's gonna
be alot longer til I'm done. Okay, I've got motor #1 pulled out, and #2
is "in" Started connecting the exhaust, this is where I ran into
problems. Passenger side ehxaust collector was all f%&#)d up. Fixed
that, but to do it I had to pull the exhaust manifold. Snapped 3 of 4
manifold bolts on the top side. Damn! Oh well, drilled those out,
re-tapped the holes to take a 7/16ths instead of the 3/8ths. Bigger is
better, right? Next, I moved over to the drivers side. Got the donut
on, slid the collector into the manifold, and.... The flange is a
different size than on the manifold. Grrrr.... I wasn't able to pull
the casting numbers off the manifold on the drivers side, so here's a
POOR drawing.
_ _ _ _
[_]--[_]--\_/--[_]--[_]
\ \_______ ________/ /
\_______ \/ ________/
\__/

It's got multiple ribs on the "outside", and has a dip down in the
middle that points down to the collector. It's bolted onto the head
just fine, and I can't see any evidence of modifications to it. Now, on
the '74 360 that I pulled off of it, the exhaust manifold is straight
and smooth. No ribs, or dips. The casting number on the '74 manifold
is D2TE9431AA. So I've got a few choices as I see it. Cut and weld on
a new flange to fit the manifold that's on the motor now. Pull the
manifold off, and put mine from the '74 on (well, I'll have to find a
new one, since I discovered when I pulled the '74 manifold off to clean
it, that it's cracked.) Third, leave the truck sitting, and re-build
the 360 I pulled out (maybe convert it to a 390.. :) Or finally, buy a
stick of dynamite and blow the truck up, and go buy a Ch*&y. Just
kidding.... So. After all that, can anyone tell me what the manifold
that is on the motor now is, and what would ya'll recommend? Thanks.

Tim
'74 & '76 F-250 ('Bout ready to shoot the '74)
Benton City, Washington

______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:34:41 -0500
From: "Ken Schneider"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 1970 F100 Explorer

I had a 69 Explorer that I stripped for parts last summer. It was a
complete base model, 240-6, 3 on the tree, long bed, power nothing, but did
have an aluminum grill and trim. It also had painted front bumper and a
dealer installed rear bumper. Speaking of white sale trucks, it was a yucky
light yellow.

I still have the motor & transmission, & Explorer glove box trim if someone
needs one. (located in SW Michigan)

Ken
68 F100 Ranger 360/C6/3.25/In Storage for Winter


> Actually, the first Explorer, such as it was, came out in either 1968 or
> 1969. Not totally sure but at first, they weren't officially called
> Explorers. They were called "White Sale Trucks". Somewhere
> along the line

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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:42:59 EST
From: IRLobuck aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 240/300 6 cylinder high performance buildup .. HELP

I'm looking for anyone that has experience with High Performance modifications
to the 240/300 inline 6 cylinder engines. Email me at irlobuck aol.com, and
let me pick your brain a little bit.
Thanks,
LOBUCK
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:16:57 -0500
From: Matthew Hayduk
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?

Hi all,

Merry Christmas! I have a chance to buy a 1977 F100 Custom Short Bed with
a 300 I6 with an automatic for $950. (Am gonna try to get it for 900). Is
it worth this amount and are their any problems anyone can forsee?

Specs:

MOTOR--
New Alternator, new battery, new carb, new positive and ground cables,
motor looks/sounds good, no bearing or internal noise, just needs washed
real well. Exhaust manifold has a small crack (excuse for a 3 webber carb
setup! :-)) and the tail pipe is gone after the very rusted muffler.

TRANNY--
Haven't driven it yet, but put it in/out of gear and other than a bit of a
jerk when it enguages into reverse, it fells ok. Anything I should check?

INTERIOR/EXTERIOR-

Inter is ok. AM only radio, but it works. Seat is ok, everything inside
is decent for a 25+ year old truck. The bottom of both doors is rusted in
the corner a hold on the driver side and just a hint on the pass. Bed has
some small dents and a lot of scratches, but nothing serious.

Can anyone think of anything else to look at or inspect or any reason not
to buy this truck. I want to use it as a driver and restor it in the process.

Thanks all and MERRY CHRISTMAS!


Matthew Hayduk
matt plusweb.net ICQ: 3680882 pager.mirabilis.com

94 SVT Cobra Coupe White/Black Leather #4270 of 5009 SCOA
9.176 76.069 Mph PERSONAL TOP SPEED: 137 mph
- - K&N FIPK
- - Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers with no tailpipes
- - Pro 5.0 Power Tower Shifter
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:19:23 -0500
From: Matthew Hayduk
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 240/300 6 cylinder high performance buildup .. HELP

At 09:42 PM 12/24/98 EST, you wrote:
>I'm looking for anyone that has experience with High Performance
modifications
>to the 240/300 inline 6 cylinder engines. Email me at irlobuck aol.com, and
>let me pick your brain a little bit.


I'm just about to buy a 300 6. Maybe we can come up with some ideas. :-)
I know there is a 3 1bbl carb setup for it, and maybe a header. I'll look
in my magazine on the 6. Keep me posted about what you find out!

TTYL


Matthew Hayduk
matt plusweb.net ICQ: 3680882 pager.mirabilis.com

94 SVT Cobra Coupe White/Black Leather #4270 of 5009 SCOA
9.176 76.069 Mph PERSONAL TOP SPEED: 137 mph
- - K&N FIPK
- - Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers with no tailpipes
- - Pro 5.0 Power Tower Shifter
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:57:00 -0800
From: "jeffd"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?

Check the King pins, wheel bearings, radius arm bushings and have someone
drive behind you to check if it dog legs down the road.

Good Luck,
Jeff

P.S. I always assume a vehicle needs new belts, brakes, hoses, fluids and
tires before I'll let my wife drive it down the road (something to bargain
with).

- ----------
> From: Matthew Hayduk
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?
> Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 7:16 PM
>
> Hi all,
>
> Merry Christmas! I have a chance to buy a 1977 F100 Custom Short Bed
with
> a 300 I6 with an automatic for $950. (Am gonna try to get it for 900).
Is
> it worth this amount and are their any problems anyone can forsee?
>
> Specs:
>
> MOTOR--
> New Alternator, new battery, new carb, new positive and ground cables,
> motor looks/sounds good, no bearing or internal noise, just needs washed
> real well. Exhaust manifold has a small crack (excuse for a 3 webber
carb
> setup! :-)) and the tail pipe is gone after the very rusted muffler.
>
> TRANNY--
> Haven't driven it yet, but put it in/out of gear and other than a bit of
a
> jerk when it enguages into reverse, it fells ok. Anything I should
check?
>
> INTERIOR/EXTERIOR-
>
> Inter is ok. AM only radio, but it works. Seat is ok, everything inside
> is decent for a 25+ year old truck. The bottom of both doors is rusted
in
> the corner a hold on the driver side and just a hint on the pass. Bed
has
> some small dents and a lot of scratches, but nothing serious.
>
> Can anyone think of anything else to look at or inspect or any reason not
> to buy this truck. I want to use it as a driver and restor it in the
process.
>
> Thanks all and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
>
>
> Matthew Hayduk
> matt plusweb.net ICQ: 3680882 pager.mirabilis.com
>
> 94 SVT Cobra Coupe White/Black Leather #4270 of 5009 SCOA
> 9.176 76.069 Mph PERSONAL TOP SPEED: 137 mph
> - K&N FIPK
> - Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers with no tailpipes
> - Pro 5.0 Power Tower Shifter
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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:07:48 -0500
From: Becky & Greg
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 300-6 fan

Friends;
I have been a lurker on this site for 2 months and have been very
impressed with the postings so far. What surprizes me though is the lack
of daily info regarding perhaps the best motor ever produced by the
FOMOCO. By now you have guessed the 300ci 6 cylinder engine. My first
pickup was a 79 F100 300 six, with a three in the tree transmission
which I purchased with 63,000 km on it. I have since changed to a c6
AUTOMATIC but have retained the same motor which with little more than
regular maintainance is approaching 400,000 km.

Although I am and will remain a fan of the 8 cyl motors which the
majority of you are so fond, I must sing the praises of the
indestructable six.

Merry Christmas, God Bless
Greg (the WOO)

64 f100 223
75 F100 super cab 390
79 F100 300 6 (the pride of the fleet)
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:29:52 -0800
From: "Sam Weatherby"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - OD tranny's...

Has anyone swapped a new 5-spd OD tranny into an older truck?
Wouldn't mind a OD tranny in the '65...
-srw

Sam Weatherby SWeatherby uswest.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://insert.com/sammy ICQ # 18354914
'70 Mustang Grabber Sportsroof
'93 F-150 XLT Lightning
'98 FXD Super Glide

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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:51:35 -0500
From: Matthew Hayduk
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 77 F100 for $950, Good deal?

At 08:57 PM 12/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Check the King pins, wheel bearings, radius arm bushings and have someone
>drive behind you to check if it dog legs down the road.

Dog leg? I'm not familiar with that term. I know it needs back brakes, he
said so.

>P.S. I always assume a vehicle needs new belts, brakes, hoses, fluids and
>tires before I'll let my wife drive it down the road (something to bargain
>with).

Yea. But still. 900 for a decent drivable truck seems good IMHO!

Thanks...


Matthew Hayduk
matt plusweb.net ICQ: 3680882 pager.mirabilis.com

94 SVT Cobra Coupe White/Black Leather #4270 of 5009 SCOA
9.176 76.069 Mph PERSONAL TOP SPEED: 137 mph
- - K&N FIPK
- - Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers with no tailpipes
- - Pro 5.0 Power Tower Shifter
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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:28:48 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 300-6 fan

Hey Greg!

You must've not been here when we were discussing 6 upgrades a while back-
just to let you 3 guys know, I have a '78 F-150 4x4 with dual exhaust
manifolds off of a '88 F-150 4x4, RV cam, Clifford 4V alum intake, and a
Carter 600cfm carb. I'd be happy to discuss 300 issues with you and my own
personal experiences or perhaps answer some questions- E-mail me:
tony pscico.com

Tony
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony


At 12:07 AM 12/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Friends;
>I have been a lurker on this site for 2 months and have been very
>impressed with the postings so far. What surprizes me though is the lack
>of daily info regarding perhaps the best motor ever produced by the....


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