61-79-list-digest Wednesday, December 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 561



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - '68 F-100s come with a 4-speed tranny,
FTE 61-79 - '71 400M
FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
Re: FTE 61-79 - overdrive alternatives
FTE 61-79 - heater core
FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing
Re: FTE 61-79 - Reverse flow
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: 460 truck oil pan
Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
FTE 61-79 - Re: Damage 2V
Re: FTE 61-79 - front diff swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Damage 2V
Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing
FTE 61-79 - front diff swap
FTE 61-79 - 2Sp Dana 60
Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400M
Re: FTE 61-79 - Power Steering conversion...
FTE 61-79 - 2 speed 60
FTE 61-79 - FE fuel pump
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE fuel pump
FTE 61-79 - Ford Front Fender Freight Fun - Finally Finished!
FTE 61-79 - Electronic Ignition
Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
FTE 61-79 - Dana 70 vs Corporate 10.25"
Re: FTE 61-79 - Electronic Ignition
FTE 61-79 - Heater, eggs & reverse flow
Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing
Re: FTE 61-79 - Reverse flow
FTE 61-79 - Trucks and Religion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Trucks and Religion
Re: FTE 61-79 - 8 lug wheels same for Ford and C***Y Trucks?
Re: FTE 61-79 - front diff swap
FTE 61-79 - Re - Rev Monster
Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing
Re: FTE 61-79 - Trucks and Religion

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:13:58 -0500
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '68 F-100s come with a 4-speed tranny,

Nabo, yes the 68's came with the 4-speed tranny. The conversion is not
too difficult. Remember 4-speeds have the shifter integral with the top
of the tranny so your transmission tunnel will have to be cut and a
factory plate installed. I did this on my 65 F-100 and outlined this
process on my web site. When you go to the page click on the blue truck.
That is the page with the info. As far as the shifter on the column just
take off the handle. The 4-speed has its own shifter.

Jon E. Purut
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/Chelley
one 64 F500, one 77 F150 and a pair of 65 F100's

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:59:36 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '71 400M

Dave R. Writes: >>I would be suspicious of any claim that an engine in
this kind of shape was "just rebuilt."

Ditto!!!

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:01:47 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type

I'm thinking I can finally get a welding setup for working on my truck. I
was leaning toward an oxy-acetylene type since it can weld and cut, but
electric arc seems much more common and a bit less expensive. What
do you welders out there use mostly for truck related jobs. I would
imagine oxy-A types are harder (impossible?) to do vertical welds but
what do you use to cut the steel with if you have an arc? Many of the
cheaper arcs only do steel up to 3/16" and that seems pathetically small.
I would think that at minimum of 1/4" would be needed for most truck
jobs.

In case it isn't obvious I have NO welding experience. Of course, I didn't
have any experience replacing piston rings until I did it....
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:13:33 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - overdrive alternatives

Michael R. Masse wrote:
>
> A mechanic friend was telling me the other day that some older
> ambulances used 2 speed dana 60's. He didn't know who manufactured
> them. Personally I think he's full of it, but it would be a pretty cool
> solution. Has anyone heard of a 2 speed Dana 60? Does anyone know
> where to look to find out if such a thing ever existed?
>

According to my 78 shop manual, the lightest duty 2 speed is an Eaton
15201 for F-and B 600's. It is 15000# cap and has 5.83 and 8.12 axle
ratios. All 2 speeds seem to be Eaton rears.

OX
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:23:27 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - heater core

Tim,

Good discourse. But on a heater core it really shouldn't matter which way
the hoses are hooked up because you are only interested in getting air
warmed up. Let's say your engine water jacket is running at 185 degrees F.
(at least somewhere between 160 and 210, your thermostat temp). People
can't stand that kind of heat. If you want your cab temp to be around 80,
then you want air temp delivered at no more than 100 to 105 and you don't
want that very long. Compared to your radiator, your heater core is tiny.
Your heater should deliver adequate heating whether it is running "just
cooled" water from the bottom of the radiator or "just heated" water from
the head area. Unlike air condtioning which generally delivers air about 20
degrees cooler at the air outlet than the air inlet, your heater delivers
air based on the temp of the coolant circulating through it, regardless of
the air inlet temp or air outlet temp.

David,

Did you say you don't have a heater control valve? It was my undrestanding
that the heater control valve should go in the hose feeding the inlet side
of the core. If you put it in the return line, hot water will pool in the
heater core. OK during the winter, but not good during the summer when the
AC is on or when you want unheated outside air. I'm pretty sure the water
pumpm delivers the coolant to the heater core inlet on my truck. This may
vary from year to year. Now that I think about it, I had several Ch#v*&s
that had the heater control valve connected directly to the intake
manifold. But, again, it depends on the water flow pattern and I just don't
know the answer there. Also, I don't think anyone mentioned this, but if
you don't have a thermostat, your engine may never get warm enough to
deliver heat through the heater core in spite of good flow. Even a low temp
thermostat may limit heat delivery in a northern climate. I sure am glad
you didn't have to pull the heads again.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:26:07 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing

>I have a friend who is giving me a set of 8 lug 16.5" slotted aluminum mag
>wheels off of his C***Y truck. I would like to install them on my '70 Class
>C Motorhome/E-300 chassis, to replace the factory 16.5"/8 lug wheels.
>
>Will they fit?
>
I have not experienced this but I was told that Ford wheels will fit a
Chevy but not the other way around because, although the bolt spacing is
the same, the center hole is larger on the Ford wheel.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:28:04 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Reverse flow

>> Okay, if you can't visualize physics, try hydraulics. Not saying this
>> is the correct answer, but think it through.

Don't hydraulics follow physics ? :) But lets follow this a little bit ...




Okay, you've got a closed
>> circut system, and you've got a designed intake and output.

Kind of an assumption here isn't there ? Most of the heater cores I've
seen have the same (or very similar) inlet and outlets. I've never spent
much time figuring out which of them is in or out, just hooking them back
up the way they were...


Imagine
>> hooking up your radiator hoses backwards (disregard the fan being in the
>> way, the wrong angles, etc.. Just think flow.) The opitmum place for
>> the water pump to get it's intake is the bottom of the radiator. 2
>> reasons: 1) Gravity forces the water down (This really works, trust me!
>> :)

I believe you :) But don't the heater cores in the trucks sit horizontal ?
Seems like mine is close (I'm sure A/C throws this all off) Also a
radiator is a couple of feet tall, compared with probably 6 or 8 inches,
quite a bit of difference in volume and height, major drop in pressure
differences right ?


2) Convection currents drops the coolest water to the bottom. So,
>> for the purpose of cooling your engine, the bottom of the radiator is
>> the best. Now, if you reverse the intake and output, you've got hotter
>> water entering your engine, and there is no gravity head pressure
>> "helping" the water pump.

This is true for a radiator, but what about the heater core ? Remember its
quite a bit smaller, and with a flow, there's not a lot of convection going
on ...

which side is the input, does the water pump force
some warm water to the heater core and back to the intake, or does it go
from the intake to the water pump ?


>heater core. Since cool water sinks below hot water, if the intake is at the
>top then you get the sinking of cooler water pushing with the flow through
>the heater coil.
>If you reverse this, and push hot water into the bottom of the heater, as the
>water
>is cooled, it wants to push down, against the flow, and therefore reduce the
>flow of coolant through the heater coil.
>
Except that you have a pump, so you'd want to fill from the bottom just to
avoid an air pocket right ? Filling from the top might not fill the heater
core all the way if it draws off at the same speed it fills, or possibly
you could drain the heater core altogether if you had a large enough flow
out. That would be very little heat ...


Based on my question from before ...

if the waterpump forces water through the heater core, then it would be
forcing water that had just come from the manifold, into the pump, down the
hose, and into the heater core. You would want this to enter at the bottom
to allow the core to fill and get as much heat as possible from the
core...the water would then re enter the manifold up stream from the pump,
possibly getting sent back to the heater core, even though its already
cooled a little, but still it would pick up heat from the surrounding
water...

lets look at the other way now ..

if the flow through the manifold is allowed to branch off to the heater
core, then it would feed from the manifold, to the core, then back to the
pump, where its put through the radiator. This would draw the warm water
from the manifold, and discharge the cooler stuff down stream so that it
could be completely cooled in the radiator and circulated back through the
engine before going to the heater core.


Hmmm ... what'd I miss ? I still don't see how you can mix up the hoses
and cause a problem, if a heater core doesn't care 'bout input vs output,
just a hose in and a hose out ....

Bill


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:29:36 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: 460 truck oil pan

>and be the only one on the block with two oil drain plugs....or (slightly
>harder)


except for all the 5.0's out there ... (one front, one back)

Bill


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:34:25 -0800
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type

I have both an arc and a wire feed. If I had to do it over again, I
would forget the arc and go with the wire feed because it is the most
useful for the type of welding I tend to do most. Generally that is
sheet metal and very light stuff (less than 1/4"). If you define
truck jobs as being 1/4" and above then the arc might be a better
choice. BTW, my wire feed is a Hobart Handler (4 years old) and the
arc is a Wards (20 years old at least).

Tim Bowman
'71 F-100

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:35:19 -0500
From: "Parsons, Raymond"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Damage 2V

Colorado Jeff replied:" If it is running under load, it should be ok.
Jeff, sorry, that is when it is not running well. It runs great at idle and
at speed, it just hesitates badly under acceleration."

Bill in Kennewick replied:" A brand new set of properly adjusted points
works wonders.
Check plugs next. "

I tested the fuel pump; it was definitely bad. As for the points, sorry, I
am using a Mallory Unilite distributor. I pulled the cap and rotor; will
replace as they are worn. I replaced the plugs about 150 miles ago
(Autolite platinum); I pulled and rechecked gap; all appear ok.

Thanks for the input.
Ray
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:36:59 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - front diff swap

>Bill, I'll let Big Don explain the reverse rotation stuff (which he has
>patiently explained to me privately some time ago) but basically, the diff
>stiff spins the same way, but the power is applied to the ring gear teeth
>differently....the reason for my comment on whether or not the reverse
>rotation axles would work under the standard rig, is that the position of the
>drive shaft would be shifted up...possibly hitting things like exhaust
>pipes....

Okay, I have seen a reference to this in the 4wd magazines. I thought it
was just changing which side you were driving off of, and the cut of the
teeth, but then you said it might not work, and I was afraid you meant
mechanically, not based totally on clearance. Sorry for the confusion.

Bill


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:50:06 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Damage 2V

>Colorado Jeff replied:" If it is running under load, it should be ok.
>Jeff, sorry, that is when it is not running well. It runs great at idle and
>at speed, it just hesitates badly under acceleration."
>
Definately check the power valve then. My 360 ate those like ... well a
lot. I know they make testers for them, but I would imagine they're pretty
cheap. I've not had any problems since I put my holley on, but it was also
a switch from 2v to 4v, so just goin through the top of the engine again
(new timing chain and gears too) might've helped things a bit.

Bill


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:55:13 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type

Tim Bowman wrote:
>
> I have both an arc and a wire feed. If I had to do it over again, I
> would forget the arc and go with the wire feed because it is the most
> useful for the type of welding I tend to do most. Generally that is
> sheet metal and very light stuff (less than 1/4"). If you define
> truck jobs as being 1/4" and above then the arc might be a better
> choice. BTW, my wire feed is a Hobart Handler (4 years old) and the
> arc is a Wards (20 years old at least).
>

I totally second this and have welded 1/4 inch with my MIG. May not get
full penetration, but it will blow right through an 1/8 inch plate set
on the highest setting, so it penetrates pretty deep. My arc has 5 years
of dust on it.

OX
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:42:22 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing

John Strauss wrote:
>
> >I have a friend who is giving me a set of 8 lug 16.5" slotted aluminum mag
> >wheels off of his C***Y truck. I would like to install them on my '70 Class
> >C Motorhome/E-300 chassis, to replace the factory 16.5"/8 lug wheels.
> >
> >Will they fit?
> >
> I have not experienced this but I was told that Ford wheels will fit a
> Chevy but not the other way around because, although the bolt spacing is
> the same, the center hole is larger on the Ford wheel.
> _

This is true, as I have a box trailer made from a 2WD chevy coil sprung
3/4 or 1 ton Ch*bbie that has 8 lug diff. Wheels from that will not fit
my F-250 or Bronc (w/8 lug rears). The centers from the Ch*bbie are too
small.

OX
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:56:08 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - front diff swap

Hey Uncle Mike,

I have the 78 steering box and will be doing the same conversion you did to
get rid of the Mickey ram setup. By the way, do you have a spare 78-79 pitman
arm laying around????

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:15:34 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 2Sp Dana 60

Mike Masse writes: >>Has anyone heard of a 2 speed Dana 60? Does anyone
know where to look to find out if such a thing ever existed?

Never heard of one, but if anyone knows of one, I'd travel a good distance
just to take a good hard look at/in it. (Inside it, that is).

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:12:47 -0500 (EST)
From: STHIBODE spf.fairchildsemi.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type

I would recommend oxy-acetylene torch first and follow up with a mig welder
second. I find myself using the torch more than the mig, but I guess that
depends on what you have going on, restoration, kit car, whatever. The
torch definitely finds itself handy for removing those stubborn rusted up
bolts, crusty exhaust, and things you want off quickly like the under the
bed tire carrier....
For whats its worth I own a Linde torch and a Lincoln Sp100 mig, both have
treated me extremely well...

regards,
Steve Thibodeau
80 Bronco 351W 35's
85 F250 351 HO 4x4
86 F150 Xlt Lariat 300/6
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:38:44 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400M

>From: "ben"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - 400M
>
>They sure look flat. No numbers in the middle.
> Also the engine is completely disassembled

Yo Ben:

Usually overbore size pistons will have the overbore amount marked on top
of the pistons. OK. Sounds like you have an unbored 1971 400.
Congratulations! IMHO, that is the best M-block Ford ever produced.

If the cylinder walls are in good shape and unbored, then you can still use
the original pistons and have a good compression ratio. If you need to
bore the cylinders to clean them up, you're out of luck w/ the original
pistons, and nobody makes a direct OEM replacement for the '71 400 flat top
pistons.

>he did install a new cam, And what about over
>tightening the rocker bolts?
>The fulcrums he put in almost looked aluminum.

Maybe over tightening rocker bolts could lead to excess fulcrum wear.

>There are numbers on it. But I know nothing of lift and duration.

What are the numbers? I might be able to help ID it for you. Crane
actually has a nifty web site where you can enter the grind numbers from
your cam and they show you the spec card (only works for Crane brand cams).

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cranecams.com/spec/selcard1.htm

>There are some very convincing clues, new freeze
>plugs, cam, fulcrums(?), everything was degreased,
>and other stuff I can't remember.
>
>I firmly believe this to be a 400M because I have
>rechecked all the casting codes/dates over and
>over again.

Sounds like the engine was not thoroughly (or properly) rebuilt. I think
you got a good one, dude. Just gotta fix up the other guys flubs.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:29:41 -0700
From: "Michael Connor"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Power Steering conversion...

>Hey Uncle Mike,
>
>I have the 78 steering box and will be doing the same conversion you did to
>get rid of the Mickey ram setup. By the way, do you have a spare 78-79
pitman
>arm laying around????
>
>Colorado Jeff

Colorado Jeff,

No, sorry I don't. I had to get one from the Ford dealer ...

There are 5 issues to address in the swap -

1. You have to weld a mounting plate on the inside frame rail. You will also
need to notch the crossmember to get the box in the correct position.

2. You will need to shorten the steering rod that goes from the steering
column to the steering box.

3. You will need to fabricate a drag link from the pitman arm to the drivers
side knuckle. I used 2 tie rod ends from a Bronco and a piece of pipe.
Make sure you measure your old sensor before you remove it to get the
correct length.
* After I did my conversion I noticed a Ford pickup with manual steering
that had a drag link that looked like it might work in my application.
Maybe
someone on the list with manual steering could measure the link between
their pitman arm and the knuckle and let us know.

4. You'll need the pressure line for your P/S pump and box. Check and see if
the pressure line from a 78 will work in your application.

5. Once the swap is completed, pick up the old ram unit,
sensor, and
all the lines and throw them as far as you can over the nearest cliff!
:-)

Also, there is a guy in Iowa who offers a conversion kit for the older
Fords. He uses a
2 wheel drive box for the F250's from 1966 to 1977 1/2. Here is his info -

Scott Ibeling Conversions
Box 238
Aplington, Iowa 50604

319-347-2491


Hope this helps,

Uncle Mike
Phoenix, AZ.






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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:44:44 -0800
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 2 speed 60

"Has anyone heard of a 2 speed Dana 60? Does anyone know
where to look to find out if such a thing ever existed?"

- - -Mike

I have a article from a early 70s Hot Rod magazine around here
somewhere on a 2 spd. Dana 60. It was installed in a Cougar Eliminator.
It was to be a factory option in FoMoCo and maybe other (lesser) brands
of muscle cars. Don't know what ever happened to the project, but I
guess there is at least one 2 spd Dana 60 around.
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:55:05 -0800
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE fuel pump

."the lesson here is if you have an FE,
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS carry a spare fuel pump with you."


I have a electric fuel pump on my 76 w/FE.It's mounted on the frame near
the tank.The stock fuel pump will pull right through the electric ,but
if the stock one ever fails I hit the switch for the electric and I'm on
my way.Never lost a stock fuel pump tho.
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:55:27 -0600
From: Larry Schmiedekamp
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE fuel pump

I like the idea of a backup elec. fuel pump. One thought crosses my mind.

I had a diaphram (sp) burst in a fuel pump and with each pump a stream of

fuel shot up on the engine. Wonder if it would ever burst at another place

and direct the stream into the engine? Would the elec. fuel pump bypass this

situation?









At 11:55 AM 12/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>."the lesson here is if you have an FE,
>ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS carry a spare fuel pump with you."
>
>
>I have a electric fuel pump on my 76 w/FE.It's mounted on the frame near
>the tank.The stock fuel pump will pull right through the electric ,but
>if the stock one ever fails I hit the switch for the electric and I'm on
>my way.Never lost a stock fuel pump tho.
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>
>

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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:57:43 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ford Front Fender Freight Fun - Finally Finished!

Well, Mill Supply came through with a shiny new fender all packed very
nicely....and in perfect shape. Several people have sent me messages asking
for Mill's number, here it is: (800) 888 5072. Website: www.millsupply.com.

This makes 2 fenders that survived out of 7 that I had shipped.....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:30:37 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Electronic Ignition

Well, somethin's been botherin me a little bit today (funny how the mind
wanders isn't it?). I currently have a 360 w/points ignition. I also have
a 390 with small cap elec. ignition. distributor.

My underhood wiring is really strange ( I found one wire that led from a
lighted switch to nothing, and another that wasn't attached at either end).
I am debating whether to switch over or not.
Here's my options as I see them

1) go to salvage yard, find a truck with elec. ignition and pull the wiring
harness for the engine, then use that and set up the duraspark style (maybe
upgrade the stuff, but get a base factory starting point)

2) get an aftermarket system that is supposed to "upgrade an existing
system" and run whatever wires I happen to be missing.

3) use the points distributor and swap the points out for a drop in module
(pertronics? for instance), then keep a set of points in the glove box for
when the module goes out.

What do you guys think? I got some of the wiring from the elec. ignition
distributor, but don't think I got all of it.


On a related note, does anyone know of someone who supplies boots similar
to the factory ones on things like the solenoid/coil/sending units ? I'd
like to wire up a 4x4 light (sensor already there) and would like the
weather proofish cover on it. Also looking for good looking 4x4 lights to
let me know :)

Thanks guys, you're the best ... well really helpful anyway

:)

Laters
Bill
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:51:10 PST
From: "Jerald Merrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type

Oxy-acet, is good for the cuting, and you can weld or braze, but if you
have a big job it takes quit a bit of time. Most do it yourselfers
prefer a mig, and some even GTAW (gas tungston arc welding) If you are
leaning to the SMAW (Shilded Metal Arc Welding) because it is the most
common, this is ok to but I wouldn't recomend in on thin metal, its
possible to weld thin materials with this prosses but it's a pain in the
butt. You can also cut with SMAW, if you have a special electrode
holder, and an air-compresser, with some carbon arc gouging rod. I
would get a small oxy acet. set and a mig welder, it would probably be
your best bet.
J. A. Merrick
Wyoming
Mr. Ranger

>From owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com Tue Dec 15 06:06:01 1998
>Received: (fordtruc localhost) by ford-trucks.com (8.8.5) id JAA20399;
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(EST)
>From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
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>Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:01:47 -0600 (CST)
>Message-Id:
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com;
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type
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>
>I'm thinking I can finally get a welding setup for working on my truck.
I
>was leaning toward an oxy-acetylene type since it can weld and cut, but
>electric arc seems much more common and a bit less expensive. What
>do you welders out there use mostly for truck related jobs. I would
>imagine oxy-A types are harder (impossible?) to do vertical welds but
>what do you use to cut the steel with if you have an arc? Many of the
>cheaper arcs only do steel up to 3/16" and that seems pathetically
small.
>I would think that at minimum of 1/4" would be needed for most truck
>jobs.
>
>In case it isn't obvious I have NO welding experience. Of course, I
didn't
>have any experience replacing piston rings until I did it....
>Bryan Kirking
>66 Step Side
>352 4 speed
>Houston, Texas
>
>
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>


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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:07:18 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dana 70 vs Corporate 10.25"

I was out poking through the junkyards today looking for some heavy duty
running gear and I found a couple Dana 70s on early '70s one tons. I
also found some Corporate 10.25" (I think they're called Sterling?) It
seemed like the 70s were older under pickups with narrower drums and the
Sterlings were under E-350s and a bit newer with some wider drums. Any
thoughts on these two? Spline counts?

Birken
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:23:22 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Electronic Ignition

>Well, somethin's been botherin me a little bit today (funny how the mind
>wanders isn't it?). I currently have a 360 w/points ignition. I also have
>a 390 with small cap elec. ignition. distributor.

I sure do recommend the big cap and wires if you've got any kind of
electronic ignition. Even the stock duraspark ign has enough zoot to
cause spark scatter inside the small cap, especially if you've got
crappy/old plug wires.
It's often noticable as a miss under acceleration...
The big cap also gives you lots more room to route the wires across
the top of the cap without them being all crammed together. That's
a happy thing.

I don't know if FE's ever came stock with the big cap setup.
All the electronic ign FE's I've ever seen had a small cap, and
the parts counter guys always give me a blank stare if I ask for
a big cap and rotor for an FE. "Gee, our computer doesn't show that..."
When it's tune-up time, I always ask for cap and rotor for an '81 302,
and plug wires for a 400, and that gets me what I want. (-:


>Here's my options as I see them
>
>1) go to salvage yard, find a truck with elec. ignition and pull the wiring
>harness for the engine, then use that and set up the duraspark style (maybe
>upgrade the stuff, but get a base factory starting point)

That works. Except that FE duraspark distributors are relatively rare,
having only been offered in '75-'76.
And all the wrecking yard FE d-spark distributors I've found are already
pretty worn and sloppy...
You can get a rebuilt d-spark FE distributor at the parts house for
under $50, plus usually a $20-$25 core charge. If you can get a sloppy
core at the wreckers for dirt cheap, then get it and use it for your core.

If you get stuff at the wreckers, grab as much of the wiring harness as
possible, and get all the connectors. The d-spark is a real easy installation.

The d-spark is a good system, but the "box" is a little prone to failure.
It's a good idea to carry a spare.
The d-spark is also nice because it's easily "upgradable". The d-spark
pick up coil will run most aftermarket "spark boxes" quite nicely.
I use a d-spark distributor with big cap and run an MSD-6 with it.
Works very well..


>2) get an aftermarket system that is supposed to "upgrade an existing
>system" and run whatever wires I happen to be missing.

Do you mean a system complete with new distributor?
If you can spring the bux for a good aftermarket distributor, that
would be nice and certainly eliminates the "worn distributor" problem.
Some also come with "spring and weight" kits so you can do custom
advance curving. Very nice...

I didn't want to spend the $$ for one, so I went with a rebuilt d-spark
instead. Besides, I like the stock look that the d-spark distributor
gives.

>3) use the points distributor and swap the points out for a drop in module
>(pertronics? for instance), then keep a set of points in the glove box for
>when the module goes out.

Lot's of people on the pre-61 list use the pertronics setup.
I don't know much about them, or how well they work for a performance
setup. Or if you can add a "high performance" spark box to them. (Like
an MSD or Crane multi-spark box). I dunno these things..

Anything to get rid of points has got to be good. Me personally, I'd
probably go with option #1 and hit up the wreckers for a full d-spark
setup, and then maybe swap the distributor for a rebuilt one.
Then later down the road you can swap the d-spark box for a multi-strike
unit if you want to...

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:41:08 -0500
From: David Wadson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Heater, eggs & reverse flow

Quick update on my interior heater - I switched the hoses from the original
positions and the heat got moderately better. After a few days I switched
it back the hoses back and my heat seems to be working fine. I'm not sure
if I'm getting as much heat as I should but my feet haven't been cold. A
few things are probably throwing it off - I'm basing it on a friend's truck
with a new heater. Halfway through a 20 minute drive home, he has to turn
the heat off in his truck or he is sweating like a pig the rest of the way.
However, his radiator is from the same Grand Marquis that his 302 came out
of (no, it wasn't a direct bolt-on swap!). The temperature up here is
supposed to plummet to -25 Celsius next week so I think that will give me a
better idea of how warm my cab is.

I'm not sure if I misinterpreted what someone meant by a heat control
valve. There is nothing on my heater hoses but there is the valve on the
heater housing under the dash. That just directs outside air into the
housing to cool down the air from the heater core.

I dissolved a packet of silica beads from on of those "Do Not Eat" packets.
They are hard and clear to start, and stay that way but do make a neat
crackling noise as the hot water is poured over them. What ever those other
things were, they were soft and spongy with a darker, harder center. Until
I am motivated to totally flush and drain my entire cooling system, I am
just assuming that those or something else was clogging my heater core.
Reversing the hoses flushed them into the block and the blockage hasn't
come back since switching the hoses back. Woohoo!

Now, as to the interesting reverse flow debate, one thing that I've had to
explain to friends that I've rolled this problem by, is that the flow from
the water pump and manifold doesn't change. Assuming that the hot fluid
exits from the top of manifold on a 302, it flows through the heater core
and into the water pump where it is pushed back into the radiator. I pretty
sure that's how the flow goes and I'm not sure how that little hose that
goes from the water pump into the thermostat housing fits into the picture.
But unless there is some kind of one-way-valve in the heater core,
reversing the hoses will not affect which hose is providing the hot fluid
and which takes the cold. While the gravity effect and heat rises ideas
work for the rad, do they have much of an effect on the heater core? As
someone pointed out it is only about 6 inches high and both of the tube
ends are located at the same end of the heater core. Both the hoses attach
at the same height and run together back to the engine so I don't think
gravity would have a major effect on them.

I haven't closely inspected the old heater core but technically it seems
relatively simple. I didn't notice any kind of valves or anything so unless
it is some sort of property of heater cores that they only give heat off
with fluid going in a certain direction, I don't under stand why a
temperature difference occurs if you hook them up backwards.


David Wadson (wadsond air.on.ca)


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:22:33 -0800
From: Steve & Rockette Leitch
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Advice on welder type

At 08:01 15/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm thinking I can finally get a welding setup for working on my truck.

I'd like to suggest a mig welder, no it wont cut anything but for a
novice welder it's one of the best to start with....

Yes they are more expensive than an arc welder, but the learning
curve is a whole lot steeper. I do a considerable amount of welding
at home and at work, I have both arc and mig, and the mig welder
is used to weld sheet metal up to 3/4" (multiple passes). The arc
welder hardly gets used anymore.....

Steve & the Rockette



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:56:52 -0800
From: Steve & Rockette Leitch
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 8-lug wheel bolt spacing

At 08:26 15/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>I have a friend who is giving me a set of 8 lug 16.5" slotted aluminum mag
>>wheels off of his C***Y truck. I would like to install them on my '70 Class
>>C Motorhome/E-300 chassis, to replace the factory 16.5"/8 lug wheels.
>>
>>Will they fit?
>>
>I have not experienced this but I was told that Ford wheels will fit a
>Chevy but not the other way around because, although the bolt spacing is
>the same, the center hole is larger on the Ford wheel.

You are correct.......


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:57:05 -0800
From: Steve & Rockette Leitch
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Reverse flow

>if the flow through the manifold is allowed to branch off to the heater
>core, then it would feed from the manifold, to the core, then back to the
>pump, where its put through the radiator. This would draw the warm water
>from the manifold, and discharge the cooler stuff down stream so that it
>could be completely cooled in the radiator and circulated back through the
>engine before going to the heater core.

Maybe I should rephrase my first reply.......

Heated water leaves the intake manifold, the heated "water" goes to the
heater core, when it exits the heater core, the slightly cooler "water" goes
to the suction side of the water pump. One thing this does is "temper"
the "water" coming from the very cool bottom hose of the radiator.

Steve & the Rockette




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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:22:09 -0700
From: "Jeff Carver"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Trucks and Religion

Truck preference and religion, very similar in that
we are highly influenced by our upbringing.

Some of us are brought up Ford, others
Chevy, others Dodge, some none-of-the-above.
The same goes for the various religions, or none.

Within every make there are good vehicles and bad vehicles.
Same for religion and individuals.

Whether any is TRULY better than another is debatable,
for we tend to overlook the data that doesn't support our beliefs,
and exaggerate the data that does.
Same for religions.

Just because a vehicle is popular (Chrysturd minivans) doesn't
mean that it is good, just popular. Ford trucks, however,
manage to do both (or are my prejudices talking?)
The Nissan Quest is a great minivan (made by Ford BTW)
much better in reliability than the Chrysturd.
Marketing makes the difference, not reality.
Same applies to religions.

I like my truck and wouldn't trade it for anything, but then
again I grew up with it, since before I could drive.
Dad didn't have any truck preference, it just happened.
he bought a vehicle that met his needs, I do the same.
(It just happens that I have same needs)
Same for religions. (huh, what does this mean?)

The truly enlighten can see through their belief influenced
prejudices and focus on what's at hand.
Hopefully it's a Ford truck.

Boy, that was profound, huh! or just blowing smoke.
Wish my truck would, but it's bleeding water out the
intake manifold at the moment, no time to investigate,
work keeps getting in the way.

Jeff
'64 F100 CrewCab


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:24:28 PST
From: "Tim Neasham"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Trucks and Religion

>Within every make there are good vehicles and bad vehicles.
>Same for religion and individuals.

True... That's life.

>Whether any is TRULY better than another is debatable,
>for we tend to overlook the data that doesn't support our beliefs,
>and exaggerate the data that does. Same for religions.

Debatable, yes. Worth going toe-to-toe in a yelling match, No.

>Ford trucks, however, manage to do both (or are my prejudices
>talking?)

I have to agree with you. On both points. :) Now my prejudices are
talking too...

>Boy, that was profound, huh! or just blowing smoke.
>Wish my truck would, but it's bleeding water out the
>intake manifold at the moment, no time to investigate,
>work keeps getting in the way.

That sucks. I'm in the middle of a motor swap. Pulling the 360 from my
'74 and dropping in a 390 from a '76. Throwing out the points, going
Duraspark, etc. But, like you said, work keeps getting in the way.
I've been in the middle of this swap for 3 weeks now. It really sucks
working 12 hr graveyard shifts for 5 days straight, then have 1 night
off, and do it all over again. But, when I do actually get some real
time off, I'm gonna have lots of $$ to spend on toys!! WooHoo!

Tim Neasham
'74 & '76 F-250
Benton City, WA

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:49:09 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 8 lug wheels same for Ford and C***Y Trucks?

Matt Tobin wrote:

> I have a friend who is giving me a set of 8 lug 16.5" slotted aluminum mag
> wheels off of his C***Y truck. I would like to install them on my '70 Class
> C Motorhome/E-300 chassis, to replace the factory 16.5"/8 lug wheels.
>
> Will they fit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt

Yep, almost all the 8 lug wheels use the same spaceing. I say almost because
with some of the newer cars and truck they have been screwing up all the wheel
lug spacings. Ford used some new 5x?mm pattern.

BTW if you decide you don't want them I could always use another set :) Love
those slot mags

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:52:08 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - front diff swap

William S Hart wrote:

> Hey thanks .... a couple more to be sure I'm clear on this ...
>
> >Standard rotation the pinion is below the center of the axle and reverse
> >rotation
> >the pinion is above.
> >
> So they're just running off of the othe rside of the pinion or what ? they
> say reverse rotation, but is it spinning the opposite direction ? Wouldn't
> this be bad for things like xfer cases swapping around ?

The pinion is on the same side with both cases.

The way the gears are cut (pinion and ring gears) there is a drive side(strong
- ---- > |\|\|\|\|\ ) and a coast side(|\|\|\|\|\
rotation in the back of the truck the pinion is pushing on the drive side of the
gears. When that same axle is used in the front of the truck( Mostly the Dana 44
and 60) the pinion is pushing on the coast side of the gears which is weaker.
Think of standing with all you weight on your left leg and your right leg extended
so it just touches the floor (to the right not infront of you) Now if someone
pushes on your left side you can counteract with your right leg ( drive side) if
that same person pushed you on your right side over you go (coast side).

Ford got together with Dana to make them a new style of front axle and came up
with the reverse Dana 44 and 60. They moved the drive shaft up for a better angle
and designed new gears that would be stronger. It's not really reverse rotation
but a reverse cut in the gears. Say the regular gears are cut like this
///////// /|/|/|/| and the reverse Dana is cut \\\\ |\|\|\|\|\ with a pinion
to match.

Hope this helps

Laters

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:16:45 -0600
From: wiregoat juno.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re - Rev Monster

Yes, my 68 f-100 has a 6-240 with a T-18. I am running with a 1:3.00
dif. I used to have a 1:3.70 differential, but, since my truck lives on
the interstate, I changed it. I now wish I had not been so conservitive.
The 1:2.75 or 1:2.00 (there were a few years with them) would have been
much better.
___________________________________________________________________
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