61-79-list-digest Monday, December 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 551



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Something Unusual in a Junkyard
FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences
Re: FTE 61-79 - water pump
FTE 61-79 - Re: C6 Governor, WAS Re: New Member, New Truck, .....
FTE 61-79 - anti theft
FTE 61-79 - theft
Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops
FTE 61-79 - hard shifting C6
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Theft
FTE 61-79 - Long rods
FTE 61-79 - Re:replys
FTE 61-79 - 240 6 upgrades
FTE 61-79 - Brake Line Flaring Tool
Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods
Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods
Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake Line Flaring Tool
FTE 61-79 - pinion seal
FTE 61-79 - Tight Fit
FTE 61-79 - Just bought a 1971 F-250 360 4spd 4x4!!!!!!!!!!
FTE 61-79 - Distributor gear oiling on a 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - Distributor gear oiling on a 460

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 06:26:26 -0600
From: "J Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Something Unusual in a Junkyard

Well, someone out there may be interested in a recently sighted relic. While
perusing about for odds and ends in the continuing game of modijuvenating my
truck, I sighted a

'63 (?) Short-bed F-100 Unibody

It is basically a shell, it had all its major body parts except the gate (I
think). Glass is intact. Interior gone, not entirely sure about the drive
train or suspension. (I was looking more at condition of sheet metal and it
was threatening rain.) It was sitting half up on another vehicle of no
consequence. It would be an ambitious project. It was not riddled with
cancer, but several points were getting thin, so some welder time would
definitely be required. It is located near Nashville, TN if anyone is
interested. I did not enquire price, but am sure it would be cheap, and that
it is not going anywhere soon.

Jim E.



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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:31:49 -0500
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences

Brian.

Two fenders were made for the 61-66 trucks. The style with the extra
material is the standard F100 fender. The style with the larger opening
was used where larger tires were needed from the factory. I have seen
F250s, 4X4 F250s as well as F350s with this larger opening. If you got
the fenders off of a F100 then it must have been replaced sometime in the
past with the "wrong fender."

Jon E. Purut
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/Chelley
one 64 F500, one 77 F150 and a pair of 65 F100's

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:01:18 -0500
From: Lord_Xaenon
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - water pump

At 09:15 AM 12/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
> I assumed they were hooked up properly as I was going by my
>>buddy's 79. But it just dawned on me that he has an early 80's 302 from a
>>Grand Marquis that has a serpentine belt setup. Perhaps that water pump
>>outlets are a little different...
>
>I thought the serpentine set up water pumps went the opposite direction
>(reverse rotation) ??
>Am I crazy or whut?? DON"T ANSWER THAT!
>Stu
>Nuke GM!
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

Serpentine-belt water pumps are reverse rotation. If you put a reverse-rotation
pump on an engine requiring a standard-rotation pump (or vice-versa), the pump
will not work and overheating is usually the result.

Run into this more than once....

Mark.


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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:02:55 -0800 (PST)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: C6 Governor, WAS Re: New Member, New Truck, .....

wrote:
> I didn't realize you had another C6. You could try swapping that valve
> body in.

Yes, my thought was if I could keep the other truck stock a
prospective buyer wouldn't think there was something wrong
with the transmission, as I did at first when I drove the new
one with the shift kit in it. Swapping the valve body is plan
B.

> I'm not sure how you get at the governor as I don't have the tranny here
> but I think you can get at it by pulling the extension housing. I'll
> let you know in a couple days
>
> Birken

Please do. Since this is a 4WD, pulling the "extension housing"
is a bit more work. Something is leaking around there so I may
be doing it anyway.

It is really great to be able to ask questions about the truck
and have someone reply who is in the middle of the job at the
time.
I love this list!

Mark
'74 F-250 Supercab
'74 F-100 4X4
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 09:07:59 PST
From: "Joe Swinko"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - anti theft

yes but experienced theives or people who know trucks could pull a spark
plug wire, jam it into the coil and start the truck running on one less
cylinder and drive it away

Just a thougt,
Joe Swinko
66 f-100 custom cab
>
>One other quick idea on trying to keep your truck, well your truck, is
to just
>pull the coil wire off and put it in your glove box or pocket. I doubt
most
>thieves are going to run around with a spare! You probably don't want
to do
>this as a primary anti-theft method but it could work well for those
times you
>park in particularly nerve racking areas. Just a thought.
>
>- -B
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:14:45 -0600
From: jedolson juno.com (JOHN E DOLSON)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - theft

One other quick idea on trying to keep your truck, well your truck, is
to just
pull the coil wire off and put it in your glove box or pocket.

I used to do this when I went hunting and had to leave the truck parked
in the woods, it worked great until the brass connector broke off in my
pocket.

I recently installed an automatic anti-theft device on my truck without
even knowing it.
While disassembling my steering column so I could weld the key back on
the shift tube,I managed to break off the tab that operates the nuetral
safety switch. I solved this problem by replacing the safety switch with
a momentary toggle switch which I mounted under the dash. It now takes
both hands to start my truck. I didn't realize the anti-theft potential
of this device until I had to leave it at the repair shop to get some
brake work done. I'm glad my mechanic had sense enough to call me instead
of charging me for figuring out why the truck wouldn't start.

John,
Jefferson City, MO.

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:50:10 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops

Right, I've seen several listings for forged as well as hypereutectic 400
pistons but they're all dished AFAIK. I had a glimmer of hope when I saw
the flat tops for the 351M. Oh well maybe someday...

- ----------
> From: Steve & Rockette Leitch
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops
> Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 7:05 PM
>
>
> 400 pistons are available forged, TRW # L2414F, but I think they're
> for a stock style rebuilt......

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - hard shifting C6

John LaGrone wrote:
> I've lost a little on this thread. Did you say the guy you got
> the truck from said it had a shift kit? If he did, ignore the
> rest of my message.

He did say it had a shift kit, but I read the rest anyway. Good
thing.

> Ohterwise, check your vacuum lines, particularly the one going
> to the shift modulator. If it is loose or off, you will get
> hard, late shifts. Also puul the vac line off the modulator.
> If oil drips out, it has a hole in the diaphram and needs to be
> replaced. Again one symptom is hard, late shifts.

Now you have me thinking. The transmission shifts up and down
no problem but does not kick down at all. I was thinking the
kickdown rod was not adjusted correctly, but I remember now on
the other truck I had the rod disconnected and it still kicked
down from the modulator.

The truck also makes the popping sound when you let off the gas
which I think someone mentioned could be a vacuum leak, or was
it an exhaust leak? It does have an exhaust leak, but I am not
concerned since it is getting headers and new exhaust anyway.

Anyway I am not driving the truck until I get the proportioning
valve installed which pretty much means not until I pull the
motor because I will have lots more room to do a good job
mounting the valve and making up brake lines.

Mark
'74 F-250 Supercab
'74 F-100 4X4
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:06:34 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Theft

In a message dated 12/5/98 10:07:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
b.mccoy baldeagle.com writes:


thieves are going to run around with a spare! >>


Not fool proof, my friend did this. The theif just used one of the spark plug
wires. any good V-8 will run on 7. Hell a crappy one will too.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:42:36 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Long rods

The theory on long rods goes like this. At least as I understand it.
The longer rod changes the geometry that is described by the relationship
between the Main journal, the Rod journal, and the Piston pin. The longer
the rod the less acute the angles.
This in and of it self is a good thing as it tends to lessen the thrust
loading on the cylinder wall. However it is not the true reason; the real
reason is that the longer the rod the slower (relatively) the piston passes
through Top Dead Center (TDC). Or to put it another way; the piston dwells
longer at TDC.
The Air Fuel Mixture (AFM) is compressed and then ignited some how. The AFM
then burns quickly. This burning releases the chemical energy of the AFM
creating pressure in the now closed cylinder; this is turned in to
mechanical energy by pushing down on the piston, rod, and thus rotating the
crankshaft. The higher the pressure the more mechanical energy produced.
This is why raising the Compression Ratio (CR) makes more power; it raises
the pressure both before and after ignition.
Increasing the length of the Rod has a similar effect but the mechanism is
different. Instead of simply increasing the pressure; the long rod keeps the
piston higher in the bore for a given number of crankshaft degrees; it
increases the amount of time that the pressure is on the piston.
This creates a similar effect as simply raising the CR; there is more
pressure pushing on the piston for a given number of degrees of crankshaft
revolution.
One of the potential benefits of the long rod approach -Vs- the High
Compression approach is that the octane requirements of the engine "should
not increase" because the maximum pressure did not increase.
In the real world the pressure did increase. Not the Maximum pressure as
with CR increase but the pressure during the first few degrees of crankshaft
rotation as the piston moves down the bore.
If both the Air Fuel Ratio and Ignition lead are not optimized detonation
can occur; until ether a higher octane fuel is used or both of the systems
are optimized. Often (IME) the engine will only respond to the higher octane
fuel AND having the Ignition/Induction systems optimized.
There are some things to keep in mind through all of this.
Not all engines respond to a long rod configuration with measurable power
increases.
Camshafts should be selected with the long rod configuration in mind.
Intake systems will need to be reviewed as the long rod can create a
stronger intake signal allowing the use of bigger Carbs.
Pistons must be designed for the Block, Crank, Rod Length. Stock pistons
will not work.
Some engines are long rod engines such as the 460 and 351M.
Many engines (IME most) will require higher octane fuel due simply to the
increased pressure.
Engines that are required to pull at low engine speeds may not be good
candidates for the long rod configuration as the engine loading causes
exactly the same problems as a high compression ratio. In this situation a
camshaft with a late intake opening event may be a better choice to build a
higher dynamic compression ratio.

As there are a lot of people on these here lists with the most excellent and
prestigious name: Chris
Because I am confused easily! And it confuses me to see this outstanding
name on things I don't remember writing:-)
To ease my confused mind I have decided to use my Chicken Band, Wheeling,
Handle.

Later.
Muel


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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:44:30 EST
From: NUTCH11 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:replys

to the guy who was wondering about rockers for a cam you probably bought a
hydralic (sp) cam ( check with lunati as to lifters). your rockers if stock
were non adjustable. ford made some adjustble rockers for the fe .used set
needing new shafts
will run 100 - 150. rollers rockers will be more both syles do need adjusted
from time to time.

to the guy who rebuilt the 240 "6" you could have put in a bigger cam,
headers,
you can get an intake the will use a 4 barrel carb. i've seen them for 2
2barrels
and 2 for barrels.

john
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 15:09:19 -0600
From: Neal DePape
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 240 6 upgrades

Eric Washburn asked about hopping up his 240 in his 67 F100. I have a
68 Mercury with a 300 6 and I have made several changes that really made
it come alive.
I went in two stages, first I added a set of Hedman headers and a Holley
2300 500 cfm 2 barrel carb. Good improvement, especially in low and mid
range power. Poor top end, though.
Stage two was a Offenhauser intake manifold, a Competition cam and a
mildly ported and polished head. Much better, good power everywhere and
a great improvement on top end power. Still not a 429, but it works for
me.
Oh by the way I don't suppose anybody has a small four barrel carb they
would be willing to trade me for the Holley 2300?

Neal DePape
"yes, its a Mercury, no I didn't make the tailgate."

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:08:49 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake Line Flaring Tool

Does anyone have a good brake line double flare kit? If so, where did you get
it? I bought one at the parts house to get me by, but its pretty Mickey....now
looking for a good one....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:49:21 -0800
From: "Sam Weatherby"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods

I am not sure of the physics behind this but Ithink theincreased dwell time
also reduces detonation, allowing higher compression ratios.
-srw

Sam Weatherby SWeatherby uswest.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://insert.com/sammy ICQ # 18354914
'70 Mustang Grabber Sportsroof
'93 F-150 XLT Lightning
'98 FXD Super Glide

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 19:39:42 -0600
From: Michael Schwall
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods

At 05:49 PM 12/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I am not sure of the physics behind this but Ithink theincreased dwell time
>also reduces detonation, allowing higher compression ratios.
> -srw

To me, the biggest advantage of a longer rod is more mechanical advantage
to turn the crank. Much like a pry bar, the longer it is and the father
away you hold it the more leverage you have. Makes a great torque motor
for a circle track car that runs on a tight track.

Mike

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:06:33 -0500
From: j arnold
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4

If you want to go the fast and expensive route, buy all three peices from
Ford...will set you back around $300. This is what I did. Then, I found
out that L&L, the wonder company, will sell you the same set of 3 piece
mounts for around $100 to $150. Wish I knew of them quicker.

Bud (son of Stoney)
1979 F-250 429 Police Interceptor, T-18
1976 F-100 302, 3 speed on the column (Gotta love that 3 on the tree!)
At 01:34 AM 12/6/98 EST, you wrote:
>I have a good friend with a 79 F-250 4x4 that has a factory installed 460.
>The reason I know it did not get swapped somewhere in the last 20 years is he
>bought it new.
>Burt Hill Kennewick Wa 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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>
>

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:08:50 -0500
From: j arnold
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake Line Flaring Tool

You can usually get you local Ace hardware to flare the end of your line
for free. Can become a hassle though when you have to pull the entire
line, and take into Ace for them to flare it.

Bud (son of Stoney)
1979 F-250 429 Police Interceptor, T-18
1976 F-100 302, 3 on the tree
At 06:08 PM 12/6/98 EST, you wrote:
>Does anyone have a good brake line double flare kit? If so, where did you get
>it? I bought one at the parts house to get me by, but its pretty
Mickey....now
>looking for a good one....
>
>Colorado Jeff
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>
>

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:20:42 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - pinion seal

I have a leaky pinion seal on my Dana 60 semi-floating diff. I don't know
what's involved in fixing this. Is it as simple as pulling the old one out
and pounding a new one in, or is it a shim and inch-pound torque wrench
deal??

Thanks for any help,

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:26:14 -0500
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tight Fit

Well I finally got the 351C in my 65 F100. Can you believe I was
originally going to try to have it done so I could drive it to this past
Pigeon Forge rally!

The installation went smoothly but there is only a fingers width of
clearance between the drivers side head and the fire wall. This will have
to do since the shifter for the T18 is located right where it belongs,
still in the center of the hole on the transmission tunnel. Having the
engine back that far sure does leave lots of room in front though. Looks
like I will be using an electric fan rather than trying to find a shroud
that would work.

I still have a few weeks of work left to do to it before I fire it up. I
should have it ready just in time so I can present to my wife as her
Christmas Present. Really, that is what she said she wanted!

I will be posting photos of the installation on my web site hopefully
within the next few weeks. I will keep you all posted.

P.S. Deacon, I am very sorry for what happened. Sometimes bad things
happen to good people. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Jon E. Purut
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/Chelley
one 64 F500, one 77 F150 and a pair of 65 F100's

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:42:34 -0500
From: "Humanhunter (Blake Barr)"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Just bought a 1971 F-250 360 4spd 4x4!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, I live in New Hampshire and I just bought a 1971 F-250 w/o power
steering or brakes.. is anyone aware of a decent power steering upgrade for
the '71? From what I've heard the Ford PS addon didn't work too well and
wasn't reliable.. also I'm looking for a tailgate/hood and various other
parts (some rust and a couple holes mostly in the tailgate).. also if anyone
lives in the Nashua area (I live in Milford) and wants to go 4bying this
spring leave an e-mail. I'll be done wrestling in march and getting a job so
I can fix this ford up! It needs paint, rust removal, PS (if I can find a
better design), PB, new bench, and some other cosmetic fixes.
All the running gear is original except exahust and brakes. Clutch,
Tranny, Engine, and Paint is original and it's been really well taken care
of. anways if anyone know of some PS and PB upgrades that work well or
somewhere to get a tailgate and hood real cheap w/o rust tell me.

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:43:09 EST
From: MJCETripp aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Distributor gear oiling on a 460

Hello!

I'm having a problem with my new 460. It's just eaten 2 distributor gears,
and I'm wondering if it;s getting enough oil.
I have a sumit cam, ford motorsports high volume oil pump, in a 79 460 block.
I have 70-75lbs of oil pressure at idle cold, and 60-65 lbs at idle once it
has gone 12 miles some of it highway. I personally looked at the cam bearings
after I had them replaced and they were all lined up right.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Matt T
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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:59:29 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Distributor gear oiling on a 460

Just a thought, maybe you should consider the possibility the oil pump is the
source. Not that it is not pumping enough oil, but the extra oil it is
pumping may be causing enough extra friction on the gear to wear it out
prematurely regardless of the lubrication it may be getting. It does drive
the pump. It does not take much power to just increase the pressure, however,
it does take considerable power to provide increased flow. Additionally, this
particular pump may have more drag associated with its operation than another
with the same label. But, to make a long story short there is increased
friction on the distributor gear over that of the stock pump. I do not
believe this alone should be wearing out the gear but it definitely is
contributing. You can purchase gears made from other materials that might....

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