61-79-list-digest Sunday, December 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 550



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Sprayliner
FTE 61-79 - 390 help
FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79......'79 Bronco parts
FTE 61-79 - RE: Blow by
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?
FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue
Re: FTE 61-79 - Welding (was: Complete steering failure!)
FTE 61-79 - theft
FTE 61-79 - Re: New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
Re: FTE 61-79 - help needed on the 66 f250 4x4 swb
FTE 61-79 - 240 cu. in.
Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops
Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: New chat
FTE 61-79 - Re: Theft
FTE 61-79 - 6 cylinder engine in 64 F100
Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:02:17 EST
From: Phazelag aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sprayliner

I used to have a drop in liner in my truck. I hated it. It rubbed off the
paint in my truck and then rusted underneath. I went looking for a spray-in
and ended up owning a spray-liner business. I dont have the business anymore
because I am in the military and had to move but I still have the equipment if
you live in Tenn I can give you a deal. But anyway I prefer any spray-liner
over no liner or a drop-in. Yes you have to ready for a permanant liner. I
have removed them before but it will take half a day. Ther is no damage to
the bed though. The fast way is to use a blow torch over it lightly until it
starts seperate or the bond weekens. Unless you are doing a comlete stack
restoration. I dont know why you woud want to. These liners provide
protection thats unbeatable and look great. You should be leary of Rhino and
some others. They will fade in the sun after a year and get a white spot in
the middle. Dont use paint type spray-ins either, its just tough paint that
is scratchy and it too will fade and has to grinded out ruining your bed.
These liners are expensive so find someone who has been doing it a while.
Just because its a large name brand doesnt mean the guy spraying it is good.
It took me several screw-ups before I got good. it is an art. theyll so no
its perfect every time but its not. you have to practice getting an even coat.
I spray the "Speedliner Brand" you can find a dealer near you at
www.speedliner.com. Anything plastic or paint will fade eventually but
speeedliners will not fade any faster the your paint, it got the highest UV
protection. They can custom color match your paint. The color match only
cost them for a pint of matched pigment so ask for that reciept if they try to
charge you more than $50 for the match. If your truck is metallic see if they
have a factory color that will look good in your bed or go with black. The
factory colors dont cost them any more than black does. There is a Kevlar
Option for strength but its not significant and its not as smooth as without
kevlar. Mine without has never been marked and I slide heavy metel objects on
it all the time. Its not bullet proof though you can cut it with a razor, its
hard to tear it. The Kevlar Option only cost the dealer $3 per bag and thats
one per gallon. Usually four or five on a standard truck. Thats a total of
$15 and I used to charge $50 for the Kevlar Option. If you do tear it you can
glue it back down and the dealer shouldnt charge you to fix it if you go to
him on a day when he is already spraying your color or its convieniant for
him. Speadliner repairs dont look like a patch job. Rhino and Line-X repairs
do look like a patch job. If your rhino has faded you can get it top coated
by speedliner and it will be stronger and look better. I Know this is allot,
but its allot of money. About $350 for a 6 foot bed. $450 for an 8 foot.
Over the rails should not cost extra either. Good luck
Phazelag
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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:49:23 -0700
From: Neil Johnson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 help

Hey guys, I have a 72 f-100 that I'm rebuilding a 390 for. So far I have
invested in an Lunati cam w/ 230/230 duration .050---- gross duration
292----gross lift .554----lobe separation 109--- Edleborck Preformer
rpm intake, 750cfm holley. Now I'm sitting 401 c.i.d. Here's my
question...Should I go with roller rockers or just stick with the
mechanical? I'm wondering if the mech. rockers would even work w/ that cam?
I have stock heads for now, kinda of a tight budget for now. Maybe some day
down the road I can put a good set of heads on. The shop said that my old
rockers are good, but why should i cut corners when everything else is
brand new!! Do the rollers have a history of always having to be adjusted?
Thanks for the help..


Corbin
72 F-100
390

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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:47:21 -0500
From: Bric
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79......'79 Bronco parts

Hi all...

I am searching for (2) specific body mount brackets for my
'79 Bronco. The setup for each side of the truck is as
follows...

FRONT=1..2..3..4..5=BACK

I need to obtain the #2 and #3 brackets for both sides of
the truck. These brackets hang off the outside side of the
frame rails. The #3 brackets have a FORD part no.
D8TZ5084A. I don't have a part no. for the #2 bracket, but
FORD parts people tell me that this is supposed to be a kit
that includes brackets for both sides of the truck, and it
is no longer produced/available. I would like to find at
least the #2 brackets (used) if at all possible. The #3's I
can probably locate through the dealer. If anybody out
there can help it would be greatly appreciated!! Please
respond both through email and FTE borad to make sure I get
them. Thank you in advance!!!!

Brian
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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:42:39 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Blow by

Thanks Bryan. It uses hardly any oil, and I just pulled the plugs this
weekend and there was no sign of oil burning on any of them. I guess it's
doing OK.

Thanks again,

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net


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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:27:38 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there

Just don't forget that in addition to the factory's focus on fuel economy
vs. performance, the method for rating hp also changed.

- ----------
> From: Dennis Pearson
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 7:04 AM
>
>
> ...compared to a '70 Mercury 429 bone stock 2-barrel rated at 330 hp.
The
> 429/460 seems more efficient (hp:$) than trying to beef up the 351/400M.
> Just couldn't resist editorializing...
>

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:32:39 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4

No it was never an option in your truck. Ford didn't put 460s in 4X4's 'til
the 80s.

- ----------
> From: CCSSportz aol.com
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Cc: perf-list ford-trucks.com; offroad-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:28 AM
>
>
> Hi ---
> I saw this post and thought I would ask for some advice too. I want to
do
> this swap eventually in also a '79 F-150 4x4 not supercab, and it also
has a
> 351M as of now.
> What are some other mods that will have to be made to make it successful?
I've
> been told that a 460 was a factory option in that truck (I've read it
too, so
> I'm believing it).......Thus making the 460 basically just a bolt
> in...............with the change of the mounts.

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:48:56 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?

Actually the better way to do it is to "flange" the edge of the area your
going to weld the panel in to. There are tools you can buy, both hand and
air, in Harbor Freight or Eastwood which make the job much easier. Just
make sure you cut the hole about 1/2" smaller than the outside edge of the
repair panel. You can then either punch holes & rivet or spot weld or run a
bead along the whole repair.

- ----------
> From: BDIJXS aol.com
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?
> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 3:04 PM
>
> Looking for some quick advise. Anyone here welding in a replacement rust
> repair panel? I'm curious if tacking in a sheet metal strip, say 1" wide,
> behind the length of the weld would help with the butt weld of the
panels....

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:21:58 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops

In the latest issue of Petersen's 4W&OR PAW has an ad which lists TRW flat
top pistons forged & cast for the 351M. They ain't cheap $536/set for the
forged (n/a cast) They also list 'em for the W ($288) and the C ($216).
They don't list the 400 tho'. Aren't they the same as the 351M?


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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:31:47 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue

I'm with Dennis on this. I think a 67-79 makes the most sense. It'll still
probably see the most traffic.

- ----------
> From: Dennis Pearson
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue
> Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:37 PM
>
> I would rather see the 61-66 body style stay in one group if possible.
> That would make the 67-79 a group. Just a suggestion. You've done such
a
> great job so far, Ken, that I'm sure whatever you end up doing will be
> fine. In a way it's a shame to se it split, but I, too, can see the
volume
> of messages coming. Reading them all, I'm just getting too damn smart
for
> my own good...
>
>

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:56:38 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Welding (was: Complete steering failure!)

Where I live (So Wa state) I can just look in the yellow pages under
welding. There are quite a few companies that advertise "mobile" welding
services. They generally charge $35-$50 an hour.

- ----------
> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Welding (was: Complete steering failure!)
> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 6:13 PM
>
> Shawn writes:
>
> >BTW --- Anyone live anywhere near me that does welding? I need a floor
welded
> >into the bottom of my bed.........

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:04:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Lee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - theft

>> >>
>>>=======================================================================
>John writes: >>OK, so lets say I finally get my '71 F-100 short bed
> stepside with the wood
> deck fully restored.>
> Do I need to break a sweat worrying about theft?
>We all know how easy> it is
> to get into them without a key, and hot-wiring
>them should also be easy
> especially since the space to work in is so
>accommodating.>
> If it's a major concern, what do we do about it?
>It's not like we can> easily get them replaced.
> It is a bit of trouble, but wiring the main hot
>wire to the ignition
> through a few toggle switches that must be in
>certain positions in order
> for the "hot " wire to be "hot".. also you
>could bring the "hot" wire> in
> through a relay that is operated by a hidden
>toggle someplace.>
> Many possibilities, but if they are really pro,
>you're gonna loose.>>John,>
>An easy way to prevent hot wiring is to connect the low side of the
>coil to ground thru a hidden toggle switch.
>With the switch closed the coil will never dicharge. Granted a pro
>will find it, but it will take some time and maybe save your truck.
>The best advice is to keep your theft insurance paid up. Talk to your
>ins. agent about getting the appraised value of your truck correct,
>not book value.>>Dan Lee>'53 F100>351C-4V
>_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:01:56 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, draco pacifier.com wrote:
>
> wrote:
> > This assuming that the "stage II" shift kit didn't modify
> > springs, valves, weights, or drill passages that a stage I
> > would have left alone. Can you understand what I am trying
> > to say?
>
> Yes, I think you are saying that since I didn't put the kit in
> myself, don't have the documentation, and don't even know what
> brand it is, I better not mess with it. :)

I didn't realize you had another C6. You could try swapping that valve
body in.

> > In the worst case you could buy another C6 core and use the
> > valve body and governor off it to get back to stock.
>
> Governor? I was under the impression that a shift kit just
> modifies the valve body. I don't know what the governor does
> but I looked at a cutaway and it doesn't look accessible from
> the bottom. Is it? Do I just take it out and replace it with
> a stock one? Cutaways of other transmissions show the
> governor as a doghnut shaped thing around the output shaft.
> Not your typical DIY job.

The governor is two spool valves mounted on the output shaft held in by
springs and thrown outward by centrifugal force. On my Transco shift
kit it has some instructions for modifying one valve by grinding it but
it says that this is not necessary if you use the included springs.
This is supposed to eliminate a "shuttling" between 1 and 2 at 10 mph.

I'm not sure how you get at the governor as I don't have the tranny here
but I think you can get at it by pulling the extension housing. I'll
let you know in a couple days.

Birken


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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:17:15 EST
From: OldTrux aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - help needed on the 66 f250 4x4 swb

There is a VIN on the right frame rail top flange near the radiator support.
It repeats again on the top of the upper flange behind the trans crossmember
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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:53:02 -0600
From: "Eric Washburn"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 240 cu. in.

Hi. I have a '67 F100 with a 240 in it. This summer I had to rebuild it and
I had it bored out 60 over. What would the engine size be now. Also I
would like to learn how to get more power out of it. I also have a Ford
3-speed tranny and Ford's 3.70 differential.


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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 16:13:06 -0800
From: Steve & Rockette Leitch
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops

At 10:21 5/12/98 -0800, you wrote:

>They don't list the 400 tho'. Aren't they the same as the 351M?

No they aren't, the pin height is different,
But, if you want to bush the small end of your rods you can
use the 351C pistons.

Steve & the Rockette




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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 19:05:47 -0800
From: Steve & Rockette Leitch
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M series flat tops

At 16:13 5/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:21 5/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>They don't list the 400 tho'. Aren't they the same as the 351M?
>
>No they aren't, the pin height is different,
>But, if you want to bush the small end of your rods you can
>use the 351C pistons.

I hate it when I get thick......

400 pistons are available forged, TRW # L2414F, but I think they're
for a stock style rebuilt......

There are forged pistons also available for the 292 TRW # L2017F

On another note ; While it is true that the 460 has one of the longest
rods in the biz, the M-blocks ain't no slouch in the rod department,
460 rod = 6.605, M-block rod = 6.580, 0.025 short, no wonder they
make a noce amount of torque.......

Steve & the Rockette,
I may not be an M-Block Devotee, But I do have a great deat of respect
for Henry's Red-headded step child.......





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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 00:53:02 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: New chat

There's a new chat server up. This is experimental and
there are no promises that we'll keep this chat server.

This chat server has the following features:

1. Lightning fast (it came with C++ source code so I
tweaked it even more)

2. Security. Requires you to register a valid email
address in order to use it (hotmail, yahoo, juno etc.
are blocked). A password is emailed to you that
you can use indefinately. Sorry about the blocked
addresses, but this is to prevent someone from
getting an email address, harassing someone on chat
and disappearing without a trace.

This server has a logging feature that will soon
be enabled. This feature allows any user to tattle
on another user for obscene language, threats, etc.
This feature immediately logs the users email address,
nickname and ip, along with the offending text and
emails it to the admin (me).

3. Stable (so far). This server uses less than 300k of
RAM. We'll find out if its as good under load. Its
been running for 8 hours in my tests without any
problems.

4. High load capability with little server resource
usage. Right now I have it set for a maximum of 50
users at once. I can turn the limit up to 5000.

5. Ability to send private messages

6. Multiple rooms (to be added)

7. Does **not** require Java. Right now only the Java
client is working. The telnet version is being tested
for those who don't have a Java capable browser.

8. Much more (I'm still learning!)

Enjoy, and please report any problems to:
webmaster ford-trucks.com

Regards,
Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:40:17 -0600
From: Brett McCoy
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Theft

One other quick idea on trying to keep your truck, well your truck, is to just
pull the coil wire off and put it in your glove box or pocket. I doubt most
thieves are going to run around with a spare! You probably don't want to do
this as a primary anti-theft method but it could work well for those times you
park in particularly nerve racking areas. Just a thought.

- -B
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 01:37:51 -0500
From: Becky & Greg
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 6 cylinder engine in 64 F100

Can anyone advise which 6 cylinder engines were available for the 1964
model year. Also when was the 300 six first introduced?
Thanks Greg
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:34:47 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4

I have a good friend with a 79 F-250 4x4 that has a factory installed 460.
The reason I know it did not get swapped somewhere in the last 20 years is he
bought it new.
Burt Hill Kennewick Wa 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 02:13:44 -0800
From: John Lord
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power

The reason they do this type of modification is that race builders found
that after market dome shaped hi-compression pistions compared to most
factory flat tops tend to cause alot more preigntion due to their shape
where a flat top wouldn't. If your intent is to run 11:1
with gasoline 92 octane is the best bet ond / or mabye due some
modifications to strengthen your mechanical advance weight springs.
(They do get weaker with age anyway).

If your going to do a complete rebuild dont forget hardened exaust valve
seats.

As My reference... I build hi end engines for people as a hobby and
specailize in hi compression for propane.

I am running a 351 W i just rebuilt for My own 74 F-250 4x4 crew cab,
with a factory 4bbl an nice hi torque cam and hooker tuned port shorty
headers made for a newer mustang, (the headers caused me a few days work
creating a cable operated clutch). Anyways I built the engine with the
intent of using propane which is higher octane and i am breaking it in
on gas to speed up the break in. So i am running with Forged 11.8:1 dome
pistons and even with 98 octane and an additive it still pings a little
under load. My next few days will be spent in the distributor with new
springs and tweeking my vac advance.

John Lord
Eric Donaldson wrote:
>
> Hot Rod magazine recently did two articles on "long rod" engines cobbled
> together from various engines. One was a destroked 400 Chevy with Ford....


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