61-79-list-digest Saturday, December 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 549



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

: FTE 61-79 - list split
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dishonesty
Re: FTE 61-79 - Water pump wobble
FTE 61-79 - mulitple posts
Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
Re: FTE 61-79 - That's why they call it the blues
FTE 61-79 - Need Digest #547 split into two
FTE 61-79 - blow by
FTE 61-79 - 77 heater core with AC
FTE 61-79 - hard shifting C6
FTE 61-79 - big 15" tires
FTE 61-79 - Lotto ticket
FTE 61-79 - Littering the FTE list
FTE 61-79 - VICTORY DECLARED over FE exhaust manifold bolts!
FTE 61-79 - Bed liners for a classic = a sin?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: ADMIN: List split issue
Re: FTE 61-79 - That's why they call it the blues
FTE 61-79 - brake lights
FTE 61-79 - theft
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -
FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences
FTE 61-79 - theft
FTE 61-79 - brake lights
FTE 61-79 - bedliners
FTE 61-79 - Re: Dishonesty
FTE 61-79 - Dishonesty
FTE 61-79 - Re: brake lights
Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences
Re: FTE 61-79 - big 15" tires
FTE 61-79 - Deacon's fire
Re: FTE 61-79 - theft
Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power
FTE 61-79 - RE: Complete steering failure
Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power
FTE 61-79 - Sawzall and Return of Sawzall
FTE 61-79 - New pictures
FTE 61-79 - steering wheel/column gap
Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power
Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
Re: FTE 61-79 - rare find! 66 f250 4x4 swb, is it possible?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences
FTE 61-79 - Re: New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's
FTE 61-79 - List split
FTE 61-79 - theft thread
FTE 61-79 - help needed on the 66 f250 4x4 swb
FTE 61-79 - 1973 f250 4x4 for sale

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:10:01 -0600
From: "James Elliott"
Subject: : FTE 61-79 - list split

John LaGrone wrote:

>It also appears that some of the posters have not been snipping enough.

Thanks for mentioning this John. I myself had recently thought that while
more snip-ing would not reduce the number of posts, it frequently would be
close to a 50% reduction in the volume of content. On a regular basis there
are instances of going through pages of copies of posts for a given thread,
often more than once. I run in digest mode, so maybe it is a little more
noticable as I may go through a single digest and see large messages three
or four times in their entirety.

Jim E.




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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:39:25 -0500
From: Mark Heidotting
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dishonesty

> everyone should be aware, i know of alot of 427's and 428's that turned out to
> be 360's and 390's, many 429 cobra jets turn out to be std 429's, many 351m
> and 400's
> are thought to be 351c and many boss 302's turn out to be std 302.

Given the massive misinformation the general public seems to have about
Ford engines, I can attribute at least a small part of the "wrong parts"
crap to simple error. I used to work at parts stores and even a Ford
dealership and you would be amazed at how many professional mechanics
had absolutely no idea of what they were looking at. I've seen 1981
351W's called 351Cs, 302's called 351s, 400's called 302s.

You MUST chase part numbers to get the correct stuff; if you don't,
you are asking for trouble. I am not defending the dishonest, I'm
merely stating a fact that sometimes it isn't an intent to screw you,
sometimes it's an error.

Any time you order an engine mail-order, ask very specific questions.
Don't buy anything unless the guy can answer your questions to your
satisfaction. Get everything in writing; if it lemons out on you,
documentation can be what saves your hard-earned $$$$.

Okay, I'll get down off my soap box now and give someone else a turn>


Mark.
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:18:39 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Water pump wobble

At 08:46 PM 12/3/98 , you wrote:
>I recently replaced the water pump on my 1974 F100 390 V8. Has
>anybody else had a problem with the pulley assembly wobbling after a
>water pump change? Also have a knocking sound but not sure if it is
>coming from the water pump or the right side of the engine... hard to
>tell even with a mechanic's stethoscope. Would bad water pump bearings
>or something similar cause this wobble? There is also about a 3 inch
>spacer on the front of the pump before the fan is bolted on.
>
Yeah, I've seen this a couple of times on dad's 57 Olds. We thought it was
a bent pulley, so we put a spare one on it, and had the same problem.
Someone told us its a bent shaft comin out of the water pump. I suppose if
its bad enough it could make that noise ...

Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:20:43 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - mulitple posts

List members,
I sent a friendly email to Peter when the multiple posts started showing
up. He wasn't posting multiple times but rather it appeares to be a
email/server issue. He *is* guilty of failing to trim his message which I
think is just a case of newbie-itis, but he certainly isn't the first.

I have been on the net for 4 or 5 years now and get annoyed by those
who abuse lists too, but honest mistakes happen. I know traffic is high
and there is little patience for errors, but perhaps a little holiday cheer
could go along way here?

Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:23:16 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

>Thanks for the offer, but your description of the "doorstops" sounds
>exactly like what I have except my ramp things are facing inward
>toward the diff. Other trucks I have seen had them facing inward as
>well. Can't figure out for the life of me what the purpose of the
>"doorstop" part is.
>
Me either. Actually I just remembered something ... A guy I knew a couple
years ago had a 79 Ford that he said had a 3" lift from the factory on it,
and it had similar blocks under it ... boy was that truck a piece .....
anyway it ran okay after a while. I think he just had to start workin on
it after I started seein his daughter and parkin mine in the driveway ;)


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:28:12 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - That's why they call it the blues

> Last week the bad karma dog bit us again. We're all OK but a fire took
>almost everything else. The Fords made it but the house and most of what was


Glad the family and the Ford's made it, really sorry to hear about the
house though ... always a hard loss ....

Good luck getting everything back together.

Bill
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:34:54 -0500
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need Digest #547 split into two

I am using Juno for my FTE mail service. Unfortunately it only allows
mail size of 64k or smaller. Could someone on the list take digest 547
and split it in two and send it to me.

Oh, and by the way. The 66 trucks use a pressure switch for the brake
light. It is located on the master cylinder not at the top of the petal
like later trucks.

Thanks
Jon E. Purut
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/Chelley
one 64 F500, one 77 F150 and a pair of 65 F100's

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:43:39 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - blow by

Drew Beatty [dcbeatty rmi.net] wrote:

less than 4000 miles on my new 390. I pulled the PCV valve out today
and noticed some blow by smoke coming out of the motor.

Drew,
A little blowby at the PCV is normal. If you are worried, do a
compression check and make sure all your cylinders are still in specs.
Keep an eye on your oil level (good advice even if you don't care a bit
about blow by) AT THE DIPSTICK-DONT BASE IT ON THE PSI . If you
notice you are losing lots of oil, then you may want to repeat your
compression test. You must use the dipstick level as the psi may still be
high, even if the oil level is low. If oil level drops but you are only
watching your gauge, you'll come to an idle and hear what you think is an
exhaust leak and when you find out what is really happening, you get a
bad bad feeling in your stomach.
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:47:49 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 77 heater core with AC

Adam,

I did my 79 with AC last year. It's not hard, but very tedious. 95% of the
work goes on from the inside and the heater core is the last component.
Briefly, here's what you do:

1. Remove glovebox door and glove box.
2. Pull outer duct cover.
3. Loosen the air conditioner evaporator core. In addition to the mounting
hardware inside, there are some clamps under the hood that you need to
remove or loosen so that you can pull it in and to the side. With care and
patience you can pull it over far enough to get around it without
disconnecting any Freon lines.
4. Remove the heater core.

Put it all back together in reverse order.

Be prepared for lots of rusted bolts, dirt, mud, leaves, and other debris.
For some reason FoMoCo doesn't believe in screens across the air intake.
Mine was full on pine needles.

Hope this helps. Good luck!


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:51:12 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - hard shifting C6

Mark,

I've lost a little on this thread. Did you say the guy you got the truck
from said it had a shift kit? If he did, ignore the rest of my message.
Ohterwise, check your vacuum lines, particularly the one going to the shift
modulator. If it is loose or off, you will get hard, late shifts. Also puul
the vac line off the modulator. If oil drips out, it has a hole in the
diaphram and needs to be replaced. Again one symptom is hard, late shifts.

Good luck.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:52:01 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - big 15" tires

Shawn,

If Ox says they work, that's good enough for me.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:57:26 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Lotto ticket

Pat Brown writes: >>John! Quick! Go Buy A Lotto Ticket!

I agree --- buy just one. With the luck you had on those manifolds,
You're bound to win.....

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:00:51 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Littering the FTE list

Dave writes: >>It's kind of like littering; it doesn't take that much time
for each of us to be more considerate, and if we all do it, it will make a
big difference.

Thanks.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


I couldn't agree more. Way to go Dave..


Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:11:49 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - VICTORY DECLARED over FE exhaust manifold bolts!

>>
>> Thanks to all your tips, and I used every one, I have successfully removed
>> all the exhaust manifold bolts from my '68 360 without any drilling or
>> easy-out. Here's what I did:
>
>[Gory details ommited]
>
>John! Quick! Go Buy A Lotto Ticket!
>
Good one, Pat. Thanks. :-)
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:11:50 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Bed liners for a classic = a sin?

>> Ok, need some advice here. Has anyone messed with those spray-in type
>> of bed liners on their trucks? Should I stay away from this type with a
>> soon-to-be classic '66? I don't even know if they can be removed when
>> installed....hmmm.
>
>I have a Line-X bedliner in my 67 F100, and I love it. Sure it's not
>original, but then neither is my stereo or engine or seat, etc. If
>you're looking for a show winning 100% Genuine Ford original truck, then
>by all means do not put a bed liner in your truck. I happen to like a
>nice old truck in good condition for a daily
>driver/project/hobby/occasional hauler, and I think a good quality
>spray-in liner is great.
>
(snip)

>For more information on the type of liner I have, see: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.line-x.com/
>I have a black liner without the over-the-rail or over-the-tailgate lip,
>so you can't tell I have a liner until you get close enough to see
>inside the bed. In the next few weeks I'll get a picture of the bed and
>put it on my website so you can see what it looks like. If you have any
>questions or comments about the bedliner, let me know.
>
>
Let me echo what Jamey said. I don't want a "show" truck that has to be
put up when it rains and I can't haul parts for my other trucks in. Trucks
are made to work IMO. I've seen Jamey's liner and it is *choice*. I plan
to get one just like it after I get my '69 Ranger painted. If that
devalues my truck in the eyes of somebody else who thinks differently, then
tough.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 06:28:23 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: ADMIN: List split issue

Thanks for your message at 11:37 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Vogt Family. Your
message was:
>On Tue, 01 Dec 1998, Ken Payne wrote:
>>
>> Mail traffic is making it fairly obvious that this list
>> is going to have to be split up soon. I've discussed
>> a couple of options with some list members via private
>> email.
>>
>> One good idea is the following:
>>
>> Take the pre61 list and make it a 56 and earlier list.
>> Make a new list covering the 57-64 and the 61-79 list
>> would then cover 65-79.
>
>Well, I think me and Don are the only people on the list who have really
>old four-bys. I can't think of who else has a truck older than 64.

For the record, I have two 62's and one 66.


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:16:02 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - That's why they call it the blues

Hey there Deacon

I thought you were gone to long :(

Sorry to hear about the house and hair.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery and payment.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:56:27 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - brake lights

Peter,

There is one more thing to check if all of the other suggestions don't
work. The brake light circuit goes through your turn signal switch. If the
contacts are bad or broken, you may not have turn signals either. I would
guess that if your turn signals work OK, this switch is probably not the
problem.

Hope this helps.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:53:02 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - theft

John,

If someone really wants your truck, they will steal it regardless of what
you do. According to several Texas DPS officers, the best theft prevention
device is a hidden ignition kill switch. When I have installed them, I hide
it up under the dash somewhere. They aren't foolproof, but then nothing is.
I think most law enforcement groups recommend something along the lines of
a club for the steering wheel, too. The problem with these is that all you
have to do is saw a notch in the steering wheel and they are off. If you
have high dollar wheels and tires, I also recommend a set of locking lug
nuts. The most you can hope for is that the casual theif will pass you by
and look for an easier target.

Alarms are good, but so many people have them now and set them off every
time they open the door that most other people ignore them. One of my
neighbors sells them. He lets his go off and then reset until the battery
runs down rather than go turn it off. Another one jsut opens the door
anyway when she wants something out of the truck. The alarm goes off, then
resets. I sure do have some stupid neighbors, don't I?

Of course you could always just keep it locked up in the garage. Maybe the
house would burn down around it. See, you can't win. Then there are always
idiot neighbors who forget to set their parking brake...........

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:13:29 -0800
From: MC
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -

$161 for 38" Swampers?!? You must be talking about the bias ply,
right? If you can get these tires in a radial for $161 apiece, tell me
where!

- --
Matt Cozad
1994 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 "Yoda"
1970 F100 4x4 "Jabba the Truck"
1969 F100 4x4 "Spare Parts"


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:26:27 -0700
From: Brian Koss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences

The last 4 years I have been collecting up sheet metal to repair my 66 4x4.
The other day I dug all the peices out of the shed to start preping them
for painted and was shock when I found out I had two different style
fenders. The fenders differ in the amount of material that exists beteeen
the rolled curve in the fender and the wheel lip. One fender has no
material- the roll ends at the wheel lip. The other has about 2-3 inches of
metal flat metal before you get the the wheel lip. The fenders on the truck
now have the extra material. I removed all the replacement sheet metal off
of trucks in wrecking yard. They were always 65-66 with the F100 fendert
emblem on the side.

I would like to find out what year fender the one without material is so I
can find another passenger side fender to match it. the fenders currently
on the have been cut to fit 33x12.5 tires ( I did not do it). The fenders
without the extra material would allow me to go to a stock look and still
keep the 12.5's. I was planning to go to 33x9.5's to keep the size of tire
and miss hitting the fenders.


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:33:08 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - theft

John LaGrone wrote:

>>Alarms are good, but so many people have them now and set them
off every
time they open the door that most other people ignore them

John,
I was going to post this as well, but just because we (law abiding
citizens) ignore them, do thiefs ignore them? I don't usually pay attention
to them, but if I were in a parking lot, AND some alarm was going off
AND some person is spending a few minutes digging around under a
dash, it would certainly raise my suspicions. I can't say I would go over
and say anything, but ***maybe**** if a cop were to come by (ok so the
parking lot is a donut shop! Just kidding cops!) s/he would stop and
check it out. If I were a thief and the iginition didn't work and an alarm
was going off, I probably wouldn't hang around. But then again, I'm not a
thief.

I think an alarm (with a timed shutoff probably 5 minutes is long enough,
if a thief is gonna get it he'll do it in 5 minutes) - an ignition cut off - and
maybe a gas cutoff as well would be pretty effective. Especially if you
could put a few KV's through the seat!
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:34:11 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - brake lights

John LaGrone wrote:
>>The brake light circuit goes through your turn signal switch

So would a blow turn signal fuse disable the brake lights?
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:40:06 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - bedliners

My two cents, purely opinion.

I don't like the slip in bedliners. I have heard that some allow water and
debris to collect underneath causing premature rust out. I assume that if
you have a beautiful wood floor, you wouldn't even consider hiding it. I
have no experience of my own here, just people I know who do. The spray on
bedliners supposedly beat this, but they aren't very easy to remove. They
can be gouged, but most of the places around here provide lifetime
warranties with free repair. You have to take the truck in, though. I have
a rubber bed mat made from recyled tires. My brother acquired it years ago
in a trade and I have no idea where it came from. If you aren't careful,
you get black off of it just like an old tire. I painted the inside walls
of my bed flat black. I think the deciding factors here are cost and what
you are going to be hauling. If scratches are all you are likely to get,
touch up paint is cheap. IMHO, bedliners are way too expensive for trucks
that run around empty 99% of the time. They are stylish, though.

Make that 4 cents.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:48:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Lee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Dishonesty

61-79-list-digest wrote:
>
>
> 61-79-list-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 02 :
Number 546
>
If you have correspondence that identifies the seller and the engine as
a
390, then you have a good case for a
lawyer!!!!!!!!!! Otherwise -
chalk it
up to experience. Even so, I would try to get me
a lawyer to write him a
letter advising him you are demanding your money
back as well as the
freight cost for original delivery. What he did
is FRAUD, which
carries a
fairly stiff sentence here in AL.

If you have a copy of correspondence as mentioned you do not need a
lawyer. Send a copy of this correspondence to your State Attorney
General. This is Mail Fraud and is a CRIME. Also copy the seller (this
will really make him sweat). You may need a statement from a Engine
Rebuilder (or some expert) stating what you actually received.

Dan Lee
'53 F100
351C-4V

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:56:45 -0600
From: juredd - Justin Reddell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dishonesty

What amazes me is that I buy a complete motor that is supposed to be a 390 HP and is supposed to be ready to be set in the truck and have it shipped 1800 miles and it turns out to be a 360 and you two guys think you have a 352 /360 and end up with a 390. I chased after my motor for weeks and end up like this. Ain't life wonderful. Glad it worked out for you all.

Just my thoughts.
Justin

Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:59:50 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dishonesty


>The FE is an especially frustrating animal to identify. My friend Levi got
>(what's the opposite of screwed? Unscrewed?) when he bought a truck the
>owner said was a 352 (he saw the number on the head, I guess). Turned out
>to be a 390! Ignorance is expensive.

Yeah, sometimes you get lucky enough to get a good deal...
When i bought my FE, the guy *said* it was a 360. When I got
it home and opened it up, it turned out to be a 390!
I felt real good to get a worn but still running and still
"standard" bore 390 for $50. (-:

Steve

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:05:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: brake lights

John LaGrone wrote:
>>The brake light circuit goes through your turn signal switch

And Bryan asked:
> So would a blow turn signal fuse disable the brake lights?

No, they are still independent circuits, but the associated
brake light is disabled whenever a signal is turned on.
(Signal / Brake use same lamp filament)
- --
Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences

Brian Koss wrote:

> The last 4 years I have been collecting up sheet metal to repair my 66 4x4.
> The other day I dug all the peices out of the shed to start preping them
> for painted and was shock when I found out I had two different style
> fenders. The fenders differ in the amount of material that exists beteeen
> the rolled curve in the fender and the wheel lip. One fender has no
> material- the roll ends at the wheel lip. The other has about 2-3 inches of
> metal flat metal before you get the the wheel lip. The fenders on the truck
> now have the extra material. I removed all the replacement sheet metal off
> of trucks in wrecking yard. They were always 65-66 with the F100 fendert
> emblem on the side.
>
> I would like to find out what year fender the one without material is so I
> can find another passenger side fender to match it. the fenders currently
> on the have been cut to fit 33x12.5 tires ( I did not do it). The fenders
> without the extra material would allow me to go to a stock look and still
> keep the 12.5's. I was planning to go to 33x9.5's to keep the size of tire
> and miss hitting the fenders.
>

Here is my under standing of the fender dilemma. Ford used different fenders
for different application. The most common fender is the one with the extra
lip on the inside. These were used in all 2wheel drives and F-100 4x4. The
F-250 4x4 used a larger wheel tire combination (optional 17"wheel) and needed
more clearance so the inner part was removed. Wheel and tire clearance was
also the problem with the bed of the truck. The old fleetside beds were used
for extra clearance on both the 100 and 250 4x4's. The third fender was for
the larger F-500 and up series trucks that you might have seen. I first
noticed the "cutout" fender on a 65 F250 4x4 and figured it was a owner cutout
until I looked at them and they looked really factory.

That's just the way I see it and as always I could be wrong. Everyone with a
factory 61-66 F250 4x4 check your fenders please?
- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:09:00 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - big 15" tires

John LaGrone wrote:
>
> Shawn,
>
> If Ox says they work, that's good enough for me.
>
> -John
>

What did I say??, I don't remember this thread.:-)

OX
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:11:41 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Deacon's fire

Deacon,

I am very sorry to hear about the fire. In late October my aunt and uncle
lost their house to an arson fire. Very few things can be worse.

The reason I posted this to the list instead of direct is because on a
theft thread post earlier I referred to the house burning down around it.
Had I known that would hit so close to home, I would never have used that
phrase.

Hang in there. Sincere regards.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:27:57 -0600
From: "Michael Masse"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - theft

I just noticed an add the other day for a brake line lock. It looks like =
it holds pressure on all of the brakes and you need a key to unlock it. =
Maybe there isn't one best solution, but a combination of solutions. =
Although, how many switches and locks do you want to mess with every time =
you wanna go somewhere?

John LaGrone wrote:

>>Alarms are good, but so many people have them now and set them=20
off every
time they open the door that most other people ignore them

check it out. If I were a thief and the iginition didn't work and an =
alarm=20
was going off, I probably wouldn't hang around. =20
I think an alarm (with a timed shutoff probably 5 minutes is long =
enough,=20
if a thief is gonna get it he'll do it in 5 minutes) - an ignition cut off =
- - and=20
maybe a gas cutoff as well would be pretty effective. Especially if =
you=20


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:42:49 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

In a message dated 12/4/98 2:21:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
draco pacifier.com writes:


exactly like what I have except my ramp things are facing inward
toward the diff. Other trucks I have seen had them facing inward as
well. Can't figure out for the life of me what the purpose of the
"doorstop" part is. >>

Me either, I have those type of blocks in the bottom, and then just a regular
rectangular block on the top of that block. Mine also point "in" towards the
diff...........
Anyone know what the extension (doorstop) part is for? BTW.....is your
dootstopper part of the block on the top of the block or the bottom? As you
described as a doorstop I figured it was on protruding from the bottom part of
the block. Mine's on top....... Hrmmmmmmm

Let me know if anyone knows.

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:38:42 -0800
From: Eric Donaldson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power

Hot Rod magazine recently did two articles on "long rod" engines cobbled
together from various engines. One was a destroked 400 Chevy with Ford
300 rods and the other a 351W with (Ford) 400 rods. The key to the power
increase in both was the longer rod, which allowed higher compression
and more efficient combustion. I'm wondering if the principles are
applicable to a 352, which has bore and stroke dimensions similar to the
351W and a relatively long 6.54" rod. If the principles apply, will an
11:1 352 make big power on 87 gas with the appropriate camshaft?
Anyone have an opinion?

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:41:57 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Complete steering failure

earlier, someone wrote...

Have you got power or manual steering?The manual steering box in my '71 has
the groove cut in it that the bolt passes thru, so that failure can't happen
unless the bolt comes completely out. Yours must be a different box. Sounds
hazardous, I'd probably try and improve that setup...
..................
Umm.... hazardous is a good word, and yes I think an improvement is
needed. The groove in the gearbox shaft does not stop the ragjoint bracket
from spinning on the shaft. If the bolt is loosened by 180 degrees (half of
a turn), complete lose of steering can occur.
FYI: I did feel a "clicking" from the steering column (one click every so
often when turning the wheel) and assumed it was a lower bearing failure,
when in fact it was the ragjoint bracket slipping one tooth on the gearbox
shaft. Try to imagine yourself driving down the road in your F series truck
when at some point along the way the steering wheel becomes useless! (you
may use it to brace for impact)

I am very interested in making a modification which will prevent the lower
ragjoint bracket from spinning on the steering gearbox shaft, even without
the special bolt in place.




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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:07:35 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

>Anyone know what the extension (doorstop) part is for? BTW.....is your
>dootstopper part of the block on the top of the block or the bottom? As you
>described as a doorstop I figured it was on protruding from the bottom part of
>the block. Mine's on top....... Hrmmmmmmm
>
Someone posted that the "door stops" were poked inward so they would hit
the bump stop at the same time the axle normally would. This makes sense,
if you have the bump stops there ... seems like trucks do, though I haven't
looked in a while (not worried, a normally empty truck doesn't bottom out
very often).

Also they should probably be flat on top, I was just looking for a
description and doorstop was the first thing I could think of ...


Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:11:12 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power

>and more efficient combustion. I'm wondering if the principles are
>applicable to a 352, which has bore and stroke dimensions similar to the
>351W and a relatively long 6.54" rod. If the principles apply, will an
>11:1 352 make big power on 87 gas with the appropriate camshaft?
>Anyone have an opinion?

An opinion? Usually :)

Big power on 87 gas with appropriate cam ... I think the cam would need to
be perfectly round for this kind of compression to run without pinging, or
retarding ignition so much you lose all the power. We've got about 10.5:1
on a 351W with a street cam in it and with the timing at about 14deg BTDC,
it pings pretty bad if you just slam it to the floor ... easing into it
will lessen this, but still pretty much border line ... I guess I wouldn't
shoot that high unless you were willing to pay for the premium gas, or
additives ... oh yeah, don't forget the hardened valve seats if you can't
find leaded fuel anymore ...



Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:37:33 -0700
From: Jason & Vedra Cajune
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sawzall and Return of Sawzall


applications while doing an F-250 4x4 restoration.....and finally found
one!
While installing a lift kit, I had to remove to old leaf shackle
bushings from
the frame. While I was able to use a gear puller to get the rubber
center out,
I was still left with a thin metal bushing (I'm sure it was part of the
rubber
bushing when it was originally installed) that wouldn't budge with
hacksaw,
the hammer and punch, or even with quite a bit of profanity. However,
with
just a little persuasion with the Sawzall, all it took were two cuts
about
1/2" apart and it fell right out....a handy little trick to remember
while
working on leaf springs....>>

Hey, I restore old boats, I have a sawzall frame of mind sometimes.
Especially after the 'Hotwrench'
doesn't work.;)


spring
tower????>>

Yes, well, no. I found a bunch of 71-78 Fords in the yard in many
configs. but none with the stud
coming out the side of the tower, all in the top. Finally found a
'gasp', GMC (at least it was old) with
a similar, or as we say here in Montana, 'simular', bolt. A 32nd smaller
in dia. but otherwise the
same. Works fine. But the reason I replaced the shocks and stabilizer
was because of a violent,
harmonic shudder which nearly bounced me off the road doing well under
thirty. Ends up the lower
bolt on sway bar mounting plate was broken and the plate seperated from
the frame over two inches
upon inspection with my wife turning the wheel. (Should've done that
inspection earlier, dummy.)
New bolt and she drives like a champ and her steering is tight again.
The truck.
On a seperate note to the fella who got a 360 in a 390 package: I
was told my truck had a 390 and
was bummed upon the discovery when I pulled it to rebuild. The kid who
sold it to me had it for
year after he bought it from the original owner, and he couldn't wait to
pour his new dollars into the
monthly tab on his new Dodge 2wd? what the? Anyhoo, I know it wasn't an
intentional mislead on
the kids part based on his choice of new truck, and I am very happy with
my new 360. I pull boats
all the time and offroad it occasionally hunting or whatever and its
great. It's all stock wimpy F- 150
suspension set up and two barrel carb but it can still pull apart a
stump or foreign car. Of course if
you were all set to hot rod the poor thing then..... get your money back
for sure.

And finally, I have a question for you fella's: When the transfer case
is engaged but the hubs not turned in, I get a light clinking sound.
When the hubs are in it's much less noticeable, if at all. My friend has
77 F250 and he says his does the same but he regularly runs it in 4wd
well over 50 mph. He lives 60 miles up a dirt, er snow, road. Is this a
sign of a tired diff, transfer case, hubs, linkage? Or should I not
worry about it?
Thanks, and 36" of snow over night in Montana.

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 19:13:20 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - New pictures

Hey all

I just got done building a rear tube bumper with tire carrier. I also
have a picture of my winch on portable mount, rear skid plate and
flipped rear shackle.

Go to

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thecore.com/~luxjo/

for index of pictures.

OX
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:49:35 -0600
From: jedolson juno.com (JOHN E DOLSON)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - steering wheel/column gap

The problem is that there is a gap between the steering wheel and the
blinker assembly below it of about 3/4 inch. There is no tell ing what
the
previous owner did to cause this. I thought it might be because I had the
wrong wheel on it....which I did, but replacing it with the correct one
didn't fix it.


Does this truck have column shift?
If it does, this sounds like a problem I had on my '76 F150. I had just
replaced the shift collar, and after I had reassembledand reinstalled the
outer sterring column I was faced with the same kind of gap. It took me
about 4 months to figure out how to fix the problem.

Tools needed:
ratchet and sockets
screw driver
Third hand-(this is most essential unless you are good with your toes)
Beer-(optional)

Procedure:
remove panel from dash that hide column mounting bolts on underside of
dash.

loosen bolts that hold outer steering column to underside of dash.

remove steering column to floor/firewall bolts.

run and get an assistant-(offering cold beer often makes this easier)

now that you have an assistant, sit in the driver's seat and give your
helper the ratchet and the proper socket for tightening the outer
column to dash moumting bolts.

stick your arms throughthe steering wheel and grasp the outer column as
close to the dash as possible with both hands.

pull outer column towards steering wheel-(make sure your assistant has
put his beer down and has his ratchet ready, there is a spring
inside the column you will be compressing)

have your helper tighten the column to dash bolts, make sure the bolts
are tight and have "some" tourque on them before letting go of
column.

replace column to floor bolts and bolt cover panel.

enjoy driving truck-(refrain from using beer for this step)


Hope this helps,
John,
Jefferson City ,MO.


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:33:23 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Long rods=big power

I am not sure how you intend to get the 11:1 ratio. But if you were to do it
with aluminum heads you might be able to run on 92 octane gasoline with only a
tad of spark retard. I still contend that a 429 or 460 swap will economically
give you all the power you can use. Not only that, the 429/460 rods are the
longest (6.6 inches) stock rods in the industry, I believe this partly
contributes to this engine series (385)'s remarkable torque.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:34:59 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

In a message dated 12/4/98 5:13:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, wish iastate.edu
writes:


if you have the bump stops there ... seems like trucks do, though I haven't
looked in a while (not worried, a normally empty truck doesn't bottom out
very often). >>

I am baffled? What's a bump stop? If it is something that's supposed to be
there......I'm in trouble. I don't know what they look like or where to look
for 'em, but I know if they are there I didn't see them................

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:35:35 EST
From: OldTrux aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - rare find! 66 f250 4x4 swb, is it possible?

In a message dated 12/3/98 7:30:02 PM Central Standard Time,
JJJJJGRANT aol.com writes:

> 66 f250 4x4 swb, is it possible?
Sure is! I have a '66 F100 factory 4x4 short wheelbase Styleside. They made
F250's too!
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:45:50 EST
From: OldTrux aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 Fender differences

In a message dated 12/4/98 11:30:36 AM Central Standard Time,
bkoss mail.arc.nasa.gov writes:

> I was planning to go to 33x9.5's to keep the size of tire
I plan to do the same. Let me know if you find a good deal on MUD tires!
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:02:47 -0800 (PST)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

wrote:
> This assuming that the "stage II" shift kit didn't modify
> springs, valves, weights, or drill passages that a stage I
> would have left alone. Can you understand what I am trying
> to say?

Yes, I think you are saying that since I didn't put the kit in
myself, don't have the documentation, and don't even know what
brand it is, I better not mess with it. :)

> In the worst case you could buy another C6 core and use the
> valve body and governor off it to get back to stock.

Governor? I was under the impression that a shift kit just
modifies the valve body. I don't know what the governor does
but I looked at a cutaway and it doesn't look accessible from
the bottom. Is it? Do I just take it out and replace it with
a stock one? Cutaways of other transmissions show the
governor as a doghnut shaped thing around the output shaft.
Not your typical DIY job.

> These are probably original. The "wings" are supposed to
> hit the rubber bump stops on the frame.

Aha! I took another look at mine. They are 3.25" thick and
the bump stops are right above the "wings". Knowing that, I
am sure they are original.

Thanks for all the information and good advice.

Mark
'74 F-250 Supercab
'74 F-100 4X4
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:06:57 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New member, New Truck, Bunch of Q's

>I am baffled? What's a bump stop? If it is something that's supposed to be
>there......I'm in trouble. I don't know what they look like or where to look
>for 'em, but I know if they are there I didn't see them................

They're little rubber triangles usually pointing down from the frame rails.
They are designed to keep the axle from hitting the frame when you bottom
out, that way you don't get a real sharp (it still feels sharp, but ...)
contact between two metallic objects and create some really nasty messes ...

On the trucks look for them over the axle on the frame (high point of the
arch if I remember right) ... as for the 'stangs and such, I think its
right over the pumpkin ... might sometimes be called an axle snubber ?


Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:16:52 -0500
From: "Timothy R. Anderson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - List split

Hi!
Just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth on the issue
of a list split. I've been with this list for less than a year
but have become quite fond of it all. Though I haven't =

posted alot yet, sitting down to read through it =

each evening has become something I really look
forward to. It's like spending time with your buddies
after a long day at work. I've never minded the
volume of posts and I think that if everyone really =

streamlined their snips of previous posts there would'nt
be such a problem. Most of us kind of know which =

responces go with which questions, and it's always a
simple matter to clairify things when needed. I'd really =

like to see this great bunch of folks stay together if it's =

not too tough on Ken. Still, I'll support his final decision.....


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