RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help

61-79-list-digest Wednesday, December 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 544

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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help
Re: FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help
FTE 61-79 - Detroit Locker
FTE 61-79 - split
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Rear Differential Questions - Help!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Detroit Locker
FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?
Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
Re: FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat
FTE 61-79 - Idiot Lights/Split
FTE 61-79 - Crew cabs for sale
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - split
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?
Re: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?
RE: (Archive Copy) RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
FTE 61-79 - RE: Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug
FTE 61-79 - RE: List split
FTE 61-79 - RE: F-100 Steering wheels
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: F-100 Steering wheels
Re: FTE 61-79 - Idiot Lights/Split
FTE 61-79 - '78 Bronco Emissions
FTE 61-79 - List Split
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug
FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue
Re: FTE 61-79 - split
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: More list split ideas
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 rods
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: List split
Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
FTE 61-79 - 66 Brakes Lights
FTE 61-79 - 66 Brakes Lights

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 13:34:47 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help

At 03:59 PM 12/2/98 , you wrote:
>The 352 is part of fords FE series of engines although not classified as a
>ford big block like the 429 and 460 it is called by some a big block
>especially for ist day.
>

The FE isn't considered a big block ? weird ... I always thought it was ...
I thought the Mustang got "big block power" with the 390 ... guess it was
just the power not the engine huh ?

Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:40:19 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help

"P.J. Brusa" wrote:

> First time poster here and very happy to see such an active list!
>
> I have just aquired a '66 Ford Twin-I-Beam (with the big 352)and had a
> few questions to throw out to the group...hopefully, someone can give me
> some help in solving these problems.

Good choice, that's what we are here for

> 1) The truck is w/o a boosted brake system. Is there a manufacturer out
> there that makes a power brake kit for this year? (I don't think Ford
> offered one in '66 on this truck).

Ford did offer a factory brake booster for 65-66. It was an option so you
won't find many truck with them. Start checking out the wrecking yards for
them. You could also use a booster from some of the later trucks 67-72.

> 2) Speaking of brakes again, the brake lights do not light up when the
> brake pedal is pushed...the lights do come one when the parking lights
> are one, but they do not glow brighter when the brake is pushed
> (dual-stage bulb is required?)...does anyone have an idea where to start
> on solving this problem???

There might be a pressure switch comming from the brake master cylinder
that has gone bad.

> 3) The '66 Ford I have is not labeled as a "F-100" anywhere on the
> badges....Am I correct in thinking it is just a Ford Twin-I-Beam 2WD?

Most likely. Dig up the VIN information and we can look it up for you

> Thanks in advance!

Your welcome in advance!

>
> -Peter Brusa

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon

pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:43:28 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

I have the digital camera and will take pictures of mine tonight and send them tomorrow to show

- -----Original Message-----
From: luxjo

thecore.com [SMTP:luxjo

thecore.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 9:42 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

William S Hart wrote:
>
> This is an interesting thread, I've been kind of following along 'cause
> I've got the 44 front (1/2 ton) that used to be full time, but when I got
> it, it had the part time hubs in it. They're nice and all, but to lock
> them I have to turn them 270degrees instead of the 90 that most of them
> seem to need.

I think Ford used locking hubs like these in certain years. Ford had so
many hubs for dana 44 fronts, it's hard to keep track.

> I'm just wondering about this external thing you guys are talking about,
> don't think I've ever seen it, but maybe I have and didn't know it ...
> anyone got any pictures of this stuff ?

check out

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.medicine.wisc.edu/~mrm/bronco/

Follow "axle/lift/gear" to "front dana 44 HD" and click "here" to see
ext hubs.

OX
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:49:46 PST
From: "P.J. Brusa"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help

Bryan, thanks for responding so quick...

>Wahoo! You go boy!
>I am unsure what you mean by "the big 352". I don't think there were
>2 versions of the 352 (big vs little), perhaps its been overbored?

Well, err, I should say that it is the "standard" 352, but has the
badges specifying the "Big V8" on the front hood for that year....maybe
it is just an oversight on may part.

I feel sort of lucky....my father in-law just asked me if I wanted this
thing...he wanted to keep it in the family...It is the two-tone green
and white....and the thing is in great condition. I am even thinking of
having the engine replaced with a fresher and refurbished 352, but may
not do this since I want to keep everything original.

>Sounds like the brake light switch ain't working. Look at your brake
>pedal, at the top, there outta be a switch, it may be bad, you can
>test it with a volt/ohm meter. Email me or the list if you have
>questions about how.

I have heard that this may be the problem...did Ford have a problem with
these early switches? Also, it is as simple as measuring 12v when the
switch is open and 0V when closed, right? Are there leads on this switch
that I need to look for?

>I cant remember it they are two stage bulbs or not, but I think they
>are and they are cheap and easy enough to replace.

You don't happen to have the bulb number on you do you?

>Is GA some kinda Mecca for old trucks or what? You guys seem to
>have a high proportion of the old stuff. Maybe I need to plan a little
road
>trip...

Man, you ain't kidding....In fact, I understand that there is an old '63
right down the street that continues to sit under a tarp in a
barn...sort of exciting, ain't it?

- -Peter Brusa
Atlanta, GA
1966 Ford F-100
1991 Mazda Miata

>Bryan Kirking
>66 Step Side
>352 4 speed
>Houston, Texas

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:52:49 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Am sending pictures tomorrow but these hubs are only on the F250 HD and F350 front ends in the early days 69 to 77 or 78 i believe.

- -----Original Message-----
From: William S Hart [SMTP:wish

iastate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 9:12 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

This is an interesting thread, I've been kind of following along 'cause
I've got the 44 front (1/2 ton) that used to be full time, but when I got
it, it had the part time hubs in it. They're nice and all, but to lock
them I have to turn them 270degrees instead of the 90 that most of them
seem to need. There are also no manufacturer's names on any of the parts
of the hub! No idea who made them or anything, but they work so I haven't
changed them yet.

I'm just wondering about this external thing you guys are talking about,
don't think I've ever seen it, but maybe I have and didn't know it ...
anyone got any pictures of this stuff ?

Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:57:55 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

I have never heard of a dana 60 with external lockout hubs and closed
knuckle. This was actually a dana 44 HD same as I have. Drum Brakes and all
and in 75 or 76 there was a dana 44 with disk brakes and the External Hubs.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tony Marino [SMTP:tony

pscico.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 8:06 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to
partime conversion

Yo!

>A few thoughts on your conversion. The Dana 44HD external locking hubs
look
>cool (I went to quite a bit of trouble finding a set to install on mine),
but
>they may not be the way to go (assuming that they CAN be used on the 60).

Yeah, I have ONLY seen TWO dana-60's with the large lockout, external
mechanisms on them- one is owned by friend and is in a '72 F-250 (pretty
sure military setup though) and another was in a '75 owned by some people
in Montana I bought my '70 off of. These two axles, which had them, were
closed knuckle, drum brake, low pinion axles, so I have no idea *if* they
put the large assy. on the disk front that I have.

>Next, you mentioned that you want to "lock up" that front diff. Well, I
>installed a Dana Trak Lok in my 44, and it takes a little patience to get
>those external hubs unlocked once they are engaged.

8-) My '78 F-150 has welded spider gears in the front now too! (did that
when I converted to shortbed) I know EXACTLY what you mean! Pain in the
royal a$$ to get those suckers out when the diff is bound. That's where a
good pair of channel lock pliers comes in handy!

>Now, I'm working on a 77-1/2 F-250 4x4 that has the smaller looking hubs
(look
>like 1/2 ton locking mechanisms), but the hubs themselves are pretty heavy
>duty and have the dual piston calipers....might be the way to go if some
of
>these parts are interchangeable between the 44 and 60.

It sounds like what I have on the 60 from the spindle out- the hub is huge
where the fulltime gears are at, and the per-say "grease cap" is about the
size of the chrome ring and plastic turn cap on the half tons. that's
where I was curious if I bought a warn lockout kit (if they even make them
for the large hub design) would bolt into this fulltime system somehow- Are
the "hubs" the same between the fulltime and partime system? If the
splines in the hub are the same.... Hmm... Maybe I just answered my own
question...

Tony
tony

pscico.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 8:06 AM
To: 61-79-list

pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:12:06 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

At 04:52 PM 12/2/98 , you wrote:
>Am sending pictures tomorrow but these hubs are only on the F250 HD and F350
>front ends in the early days 69 to 77 or 78 i believe.
>
That's great, I'm always interested in seeing new parts and wondering at
who thought them up and the engineering it took to do so ...

Bill
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:07:11 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Dana 60 uses an internal type hub and the 44HD uses an external type that
is not interchangeable. If you have a set of the HD hubs and want to get
rid of them please let me know. Factory Hubs consist of three main parts
the chrome ring which contains the button spring and engage parts a steel
looking sleeve with splines in it and then the axle parts which are held on
by a snap rring attached to the axle. If you have a set of these drop me a
line.
jpliss

airolite.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: luxjo

thecore.com [SMTP:luxjo

thecore.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:44 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to
partime conversion

BDIJXS

aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Tony,
>
> A few thoughts on your conversion. The Dana 44HD external locking hubs
look
> cool (I went to quite a bit of trouble finding a set to install on mine),
but
> they may not be the way to go (assuming that they CAN be used on the 60).

I don't think external Dana 44 HD stuff can be used on dana 60. Is dana
4 HD wheel hub the same as dana 44 HD internal wheel hub? Dana 60 wheel
hub is huge compared to dana 44 internal wheel hub.

For
> one, the spindles for this setup have been discontinued and are
practically
> impossible to find. I finally had a set shipped from Michigan.
>
> Next, you mentioned that you want to "lock up" that front diff. Well, I
> installed a Dana Trak Lok in my 44, and it takes a little patience to get
> those external hubs unlocked once they are engaged. I still haven't
figured
> out the trick to get it the first time, it takes me a few minutes of
rolling
> back and forth, getting out, etc. etc. until they will unlock. This is
because
> there is a small amount of residual torque between the front two wheels
which
> gets transfered through the diff clutches and keeps some pressure on the
hubs.

I have no problems and I have a detroit up front.

> I've looked at the Warn hubs, and they shouldn't stick at all because of
the
> spring design they use. But since I don't need to lock these in that
often,
> and because I went to so much trouble to install them, I'll keep the
> externals.
>
> Now, I'm working on a 77-1/2 F-250 4x4 that has the smaller looking hubs
(look
> like 1/2 ton locking mechanisms)

Outer chrome ring, plastic knob and locking stuff are identical,
everything else is different, except possibly outer bearing (comparing
std 44 front with HD 44 front, internal lcok hub stuff).

>, but the hubs themselves are pretty heavy
> duty and have the dual piston calipers..

As far as I can tell, inner bearing is larger, while outer bearing is
the same. I've never verified outer bearing. Since original poster
claimed he had twin pis calipers, I assume he allready has dana 44 HD
front.

>..might be the way to go if some of
> these parts are interchangeable between the 44 and 60..

See other post about this.

OX
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 13:14:25 -0700
From: "Richard Currit"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - New '66 Ford owner...needing advice/help

>>2) Speaking of brakes again, the brake >lights do not light up when the
>brake pedal is pushed...the lights do come >one when the parking lights
>are one,
>Sounds like the brake light switch ain't >working. Look at your brake
>pedal, at the top, there outta be a switch, it >may be bad,=20

Or the threading that holds it in place could be stripped so it doesn't =
stay in place. This happened on my '72 F-100. I happened to notice it in =
Elk Camp one year. Rapped some sinew around the threads as a temporary =
fix. Lets see, that was in the fall of '91, I guess temporary can last a =
pretty long time!!

High Plains Richard
'72 F-100 =20

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:16:32 PST
From: "b hp"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Detroit Locker

Could someone explain the advantage (if any) of installing a Detroit
Locker or similar type of posi-traction unit on a 2WD P/U 240 |6 or any
larger engine configuration (2WD).

Will it increase traction in slippery conditions?
Will it make turning near to impossible?
.........

Thanks for all the input on breaker-less points system...I found a
supplier for a Pertronix unit..

::If you are talking about your point gap, or dwell varying, that
problem will go away as the result of the electronic ignition replacing
your points.

Yes, I should have been a bit clearer...it was the dwell that was
changing.

Bruce
65 Mercury F-100 (M-100??) 2WD P/U 240 |6

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:16:31 -0900
From: "Daniel Bevington"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - split

Ken Wrote:
> Mail traffic is making it fairly obvious that this list
> is going to have to be split up soon. I've discussed
> a couple of options with some list members via private
> email.
> One good idea is the following:
> Take the pre61 list and make it a 56 and earlier list.
> Make a new list covering the 57-64 and the 61-79 list
> would then cover 65-79.
> Your opinions are welcome.
> Ken Payne

I like to read through many of the follow-ups but understand a volume problem if the server resturns post to sender. The split proposal works for me.

F250 in Barrow

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:19:46 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat

>From: luxjo

thecore.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat
>
> Hi all
>
> Can anyone tell me what years had this axle?
>
Yo Ox:

Colorado Jeff had a 5-lug Dana 60 semi-floater (60-2) in his 1971 F100, and
I have seen one on my neighbor's 1966 F100 Camper Special. Based on this,
I would speculate that at least late '60s to early '70s F100s might be a
good place to look. I don't know if Colo Jeff's truck was a Camper Special
originally, but Camper Specials or other heavy-duty optioned F100s might be
the best sources.

I have also seen 8-lug Dana 60-2 semi floaters in light duty F250s from
1980 to 1985. I don't know if they used them any earlier than that. (I'll
bet you could get custom axle shafts w/ 5-lug flanges made for any Dana
60-2.) Apparently the later F250 LDs (1986-on) use a semi-floating version
of Ford's corporate 10.25" axle.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

P.S. You can tell an enthusiast because he's the guy looking at the bottom
of the truck.

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:20:39 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Rear Differential Questions - Help!

71 used a narrower frame so the springs are in a different location. Also
you need to have the same gearing in the fron and back or a little higher
in front then in back IE my 73 F250 has 4.10 rear and 4.09 up front but how
or why did they put that kind of difference in. 4.11 almost sounds after
market or may be special order 4.11 seems awfully low for a factory f100

- -----Original Message-----
From: m frank [SMTP:m_hoolie

yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 7:18 PM
To: List Member
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Rear Differential Questions - Help!

I've got a '71 F100 4x4. When I bought it, the differentials didn't
match. The front has the original Dana 44 4.11 and the rear has a 3.25.

I bought a set of 3.50 rear ends out of a '76 F100. I tried to
install the rear end yesterday and found that the axle housing was
almost 5 inches longer than the existing! The leaf spring attach
points are the same way. When I pulled the axles out, they were 33
spline. I spent 8 hours just to bleed my brakes!

Can anyone tell me what I have and what will work in a '71? I am
interested in getting the four wheel drive working. I might consider
a 4.11 for the rear at this point. Will it fit in the existing
housing? Should I just part out the truck and start over? Inquiring
minds want to know.

Thanks,
Michael and the Teal Terror

==
If you can't fix it with duct tape, it's not broke.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:30:42 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Detroit Locker

At 02:16 PM 12/2/98 , you wrote:
>Could someone explain the advantage (if any) of installing a Detroit
>Locker or similar type of posi-traction unit on a 2WD P/U 240 |6 or any
>larger engine configuration (2WD).
>
>Will it increase traction in slippery conditions?

Yes, it will apply power to both wheels, no matter which has traction, that
way you don't spin one tire (this can happen if you get on it too hard and
slip the clutches, but usually you don't do that if you're trying to get
off the ice/snow/slippery). The way I've always had a locker described was
as sort of a ratcheting mechanism to take up the slop when you go around a
corner (that way both wheels will turn at different speeds and make round
corners instead of square ones). They are usually louder and clunky when
compared with a trac-lok or posi unit.

>Will it make turning near to impossible?

Nearer yes ... when both wheels are always turning its going to be harder
to get into a corner when its really slippery. I had trac-lok on my 82 GT
and never had too much problem with this ... fortunately I don't have to
try this in my 96, but they will push the front if you tap the brakes or
cause a slide of any sort. Even our 4wd tempo (yes its factory, maybe we
should start a list for that ? :) has a posi rear in it and it can push in
the corners even with its little 2.3, 'course I probably shouldn't have
been going that fast either.

I am sure that others will have slightly conflicting views and be able to
describe this in more detail, but maybe this will give you a general idea.
I don't currently have any posi of any sort on either of my diffs in my 4x4
and I'm really wishing I had one in the rear because it is next to useless
on the snow without 4wd.

Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:33:58 -0500
From: "Rusty Nail"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?

I've noticed some white residue or marks on my heads where the exhaust
manifold meets up with them, is this casued by an exhaust leak or simply the
heat of the manifold turning the paint white.
The reason I ask is I have an engine noise that I thought was a bad lifter
or somthing, but if this could be the cause, I will focus on that first.

thanks, Rusty
77' ford 400
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:33:40 PST
From: "b hp"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels

I had the same problem on my truck right before the rag joint let go in
downtown traffic..the rag joint was so soft that it had about an inch of
play in it and let the whole column raise up..
I too replaced the steering wheel and tried numerous times to "push" the
column down. I hope this helps..the rag joints are rather
expensive...there was quite a bit of disscussion about them a month
ago...is the list archived..i dunno?

good luck...

Bruce
65 Mercury F-100 (M-100??) 2WD P/U 240 |6

______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:47:15 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?

At 01:33 PM 12/2/98 , you wrote:
>I've noticed some white residue or marks on my heads where the exhaust
>manifold meets up with them, is this casued by an exhaust leak or simply the
>heat of the manifold turning the paint white.
>The reason I ask is I have an engine noise that I thought was a bad lifter
>or somthing, but if this could be the cause, I will focus on that first.
>
A leaky exhaust gasket makes kind of a ticking noise, if you haven't heard
it before you might mistake it for a lifter, but once you hear it you know
it. It might also be louder when the engine is cold and get quiet as the
metal expands and closes the holes.

One way to check is to start the truck up (cold is best here) and put your
hand around the port (don't touch it, it could be hot), just see if you
feel exhaust pulsing against your hand. If so, then you know its leaking
there.

Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Cars/mustang.html
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:50:12 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat

>Colorado Jeff had a 5-lug Dana 60 semi-floater (60-2) in his 1971 F100, and
>I have seen one on my neighbor's 1966 F100 Camper Special. Based on this,
>I would speculate that at least late '60s to early '70s F100s might be a
>good place to look. I don't know if Colo Jeff's truck was a Camper Special
>originally, but Camper Specials or other heavy-duty optioned F100s might be
>the best sources.
>
>

Hey now that you mention it my grandfather's 70 F100 CS has/had a floating
style axle in the rear if I remember right. I'll have to check the back 40
and see if that's what's under there or not...been a while since I've
looked at it. He "retired" it a few years ago. He said after he hit that
milk-truck it just never drove the same.

Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:59:09 -0800
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Idiot Lights/Split

">>The 250 has ammeter and oil pressure gauges, the 100 has idiot
lights. I have the correct senders on the motor but will the
wiring harness be the same so I can just swap clusters?

"No. Wiring harnesses and connectors at the clusters are different."

100% correct.
Went through this with my 76.It's a real SOB to convert to gauges and
when you finally get it done you have gauges that are inaccurate at
best.I would keep the idiot lights and install aftermarket gauges

I vote 65-79 list.
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 15:11:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Crew cabs for sale

I have noticed lately sevral people wanting crew cabs to restore and work on.
(Especially Jeff with the 1964 Crew) I found this last night in the Dec.
1998 issue of Hemmings.....here it is. Same guy has both trucks listed.

FORD 1977 F-250 crew cab 4x4, Dana 60 Front, 460 V8, ps, pb, aftermarket
air, 4 speed,
no rust, RARE, $6,900.00

530-389-8675 California

Wish I was a little closer, that just about takes care of what I'd like to
have in a truck. Anyone close by this guy clould take a look at it, I may
have to road trip over Xmas holidays.....

Here is another Crew Cab listed in Hemmings - same feller,

FORD 1968 Crew Cab swb, 360 4 speed, doesn't run, needs restored no rust,
rare, $550.00

530-389-8675 California

Stu
Nuke GM!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:39:40 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Yeah, I never would have believed it either, until my friend bought that
truck and for sure when I saw the other one. Definitly 60's. When we
ordered new ring/pinion bearing and seals kits the only person who carried
the stuff was Winer Motors (people who I have mentioned before) and they
said something about it being a special "military setup" option from the
factory in the early seventies that you could get this particular style of
from axle. I don't have any literature to verify this, but.....

Tony

At 02:57 PM 12/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I have never heard of a dana 60 with external lockout hubs and closed
>knuckle. This was actually a dana 44 HD same as I have. Drum Brakes and all
>and in 75 or 76 there was a dana 44 with disk brakes and the External Hubs.

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:41:11 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

His has the large hub assy. and such, and this must be what they meant when
they told me--

>This is not a military
>setup although the Military Heavy trucks did use a similar setup on deuce
>and duece and a quarter type vehicles.

Tony
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:43:21 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Speaking of pictures- I can also snag a digi-camera... I'll grab a couple
photos of that axle I'm talking about (closed knuckle, dana 60, drum, w/
ext. large lockouts) and put them up on my web page this weekend... Sound
good?! Maybe clear some things up.

Tony

At 02:12 PM 12/2/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 04:52 PM 12/2/98 , you wrote:
>>Am sending pictures tomorrow but these hubs are only on the F250 HD and
F350
>>front ends in the early days 69 to 77 or 78 i believe.
>>
>That's great, I'm always interested in seeing new parts and wondering at
>who thought them up and the engineering it took to do so ...
>
>
>Bill
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>
>
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:08:08 -0500 (EST)
From: jdklaers

mailhost.magicnet.net (PredFan)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels

Hmmm....thanks, I'll have to check that out.

John

>John wrote:
>
>> The problem is that there is a gap between the steering wheel and the
>> blinker assembly below it of about 3/4 inch. There is no tell ing what the
>> previous owner did to cause this. I thought it might be because I had the
>> wrong wheel on it....which I did, but replacing it with the correct one
>> didn't fix it.
>>
>
>Sounds like the bearing at the bottom of your steering column is shot.
>Is the rag joint (fiber coupling between steering shaft and box) nice
>and flat? Or does it look 'Wavy'. If the bearing is shot, the spring
>under the wheel will eventually force the shaft up, causing 1) No horn,
>and 2) No signal cancellation.
>
>--
>Pat Brown
>Sebastopol, California
>
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:19:44 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

At 03:43 PM 12/2/98 , you wrote:
>Speaking of pictures- I can also snag a digi-camera... I'll grab a couple
>photos of that axle I'm talking about (closed knuckle, dana 60, drum, w/
>ext. large lockouts) and put them up on my web page this weekend... Sound
>good?! Maybe clear some things up.
>
>Tony
>
WOOOHOOO!!! SCORE! :)

Bill
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:20:56 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - split

Thanks for your message at 11:16 AM 12/2/98 -0900, Daniel Bevington. Your
message was:
>Ken Wrote:
>> Mail traffic is making it fairly obvious that this list
>> is going to have to be split up soon. I've discussed
>> a couple of options with some list members via private
>> email.
>> One good idea is the following:
>> Take the pre61 list and make it a 56 and earlier list.
>> Make a new list covering the 57-64 and the 61-79 list
>> would then cover 65-79.
>> Your opinions are welcome.
>> Ken Payne

Just (another) thought--how about a 4x4 and 2x4 split, keeping the years
the same. I thought of this as I was scanning through and trashing the
4-wheel drive threads, which may be interesting, but simply don't apply to
anything I have...just an idea.

Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:55:39 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue

At 08:13 AM 12/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Also Ken, give us the ability to reply directly to the sender of the
>message instead of posting each reply to the entire list.
>
>Just a suggestion!
>
>John
>

Do a reply-to all instead of a reply to, then remove
the list from the recipients. If you can't do that,
its your mailer's fault.

Ken

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:28:50 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?

sOUNDS LIKE AN EXHAUST LEAK TO ME YOU SHOULD CHECK IT OUT AND YES IT WILL SOUND LIKE A LIFTER GOING TICK TICK TICK.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rusty Nail [SMTP:rnail

mmgworldwide.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 11:34 AM
To: ford post
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?

I've noticed some white residue or marks on my heads where the exhaust
manifold meets up with them, is this casued by an exhaust leak or simply the
heat of the manifold turning the paint white.
The reason I ask is I have an engine noise that I thought was a bad lifter
or somthing, but if this could be the cause, I will focus on that first.

thanks, Rusty
77' ford 400
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:33:17 EST
From: CCSSportz

aol.com
Subject: Re: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - springs

In a message dated 12/2/98 2:19:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, luxjo

thecore.com
writes:

OX >>
yup, I've got the 3's in my 150 4x4..........

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:43:52 EST
From: CCSSportz

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Exhaust leak?

In a message dated 12/2/98 3:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rnail

mmgworldwide.com writes:

or somthing, but if this could be the cause, I will focus on that first.
>>
Lifter tick sounds alot like an exhaust leak.......change the gasket and see
if that fixes it...
from your description that's what is sounds like to me.........

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:39:02 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

hOW MANY SPLINES ARE ON THE AXLES I DONT BELIEVE DANA MADE A 60 SERIES
FRONT END IN THE EARLY SEVENTIES. TRY TO FIND THE BILL OF MATERIAL NUMBER
OFF THE HOUSING I CAN THEN TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT HE HAS. THE HD44 DOES LOOK
LIKE A 60 BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I HAVE A 73 F250 WITH THE HD
FRONT END. THE KING PIN BEARINGS LOOK LIKE THEY ARE WHEEL BEARINGS FOR A
2WD TRUCK AND THE INNER AND OUTER WHEEL BEAINGS ARE 2 DIFFERENT SIZES WITH
THE INNER LOOKING MORE LIKE A FULL FLOATER WHEEL BEARING ON THE REAR.
PRETTY GOOD SETUP EXCEPT THE KNUCKLE SEALS ALWAYS LEAK A LITTLE NO MATTER
WHAT YOU DO. IF YOU CAN GET THE BILL OF MATERIAL NUMBER SHOULD BE ON THE
HOUSING BUT ON MOST OLDER UNITS HAS BEEN ON A TAG ATTACHED TO THE COVER
LIKKE A HOLD DOWN PLATE. ALSO ON THE WEBBING BETWEEN THE CARRIER PART OF
THE HOUSING AND THE AXLE PART OF THE HOUSING YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND AN
IDENTIFIER THIS WILL TELL YOU IF IT IS A 44 OR 60.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tony Marino [SMTP:tony

pscico.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 1:40 PM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime
front axle to partime conversion

Yeah, I never would have believed it either, until my friend bought that
truck and for sure when I saw the other one. Definitly 60's. When we
ordered new ring/pinion bearing and seals kits the only person who carried
the stuff was Winer Motors (people who I have mentioned before) and they
said something about it being a special "military setup" option from the
factory in the early seventies that you could get this particular style of
from axle. I don't have any literature to verify this, but.....

Tony

At 02:57 PM 12/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I have never heard of a dana 60 with external lockout hubs and closed
>knuckle. This was actually a dana 44 HD same as I have. Drum Brakes and
all
>and in 75 or 76 there was a dana 44 with disk brakes and the External
Hubs.

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:45:28 EST
From: CCSSportz

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels

In a message dated 12/2/98 3:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
deconstructing

hotmail.com writes:

expensive. >>

What does one for a '79 F-150 4x4 go for??
Just curious.........

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:48:54 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug

Ox wrote:

>So I guess they were for quite a number of years?

Truthfully, I have no idea. I do know that most of the '67-'72 F100's had
9" rear ends. Mine was a special order truck, and I think the guy had that
diff put in special.

I just wanted to let you know that, at least as far back as '67, they
existed.

Hope this helps,

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty

rmi.net

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:02:49 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: List split

>>Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA wrote:

>I can't imagine asking more of Ken than he has already provided us. At
the
>risk of being sentimentally sloppy, this is by far the best, most
>efficiently administered list-serve I know of. It also has the most
>knowledgeable and congenial contributors....there!

No doubt!! I remember this list when there was only *one* list, and about 9
guys on it. The work Ken has put into the huge FTE monster we see today is
phenomenal. Links, pages and pages of photos, several lists... this thing
is its own subculture!

As far as the split goes, I don't mind terribly wading through the emails,
but if it must split, then I'll just adapt. I think, Ford Truck-wise, the
'65-79 grouping makes sense. If I had to I'd just subscribe to another
list.

My dime (inflation)

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty

rmi.net

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:45:44 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: F-100 Steering wheels

John, you may be able to close that gap. Under the hood, where the column
comes out under the master cylinder, there is a round clamp that holds the
column. Loosen that one and the one under the dash that holds the column up
to the dash. Then push down on the wheel and see if that does it. Don't
forget to tighten everything back up.

When I put in my steering gear I had this same problem with the big gap,
and I fixed it this way.

If this doesn't help, you may have the wrong column in there. I've heard
that they came in different lengths, but I'd have to defer to the list for
any hands on knowledge of this.

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty

rmi.net

>Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:55:21 -0500 (EST)
>From: jdklaers

mailhost.magicnet.net (PredFan)
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 -c

>The problem is that there is a gap between the steering wheel and the
>blinker assembly below it of about 3/4 inch. There is no tell ing what the
>previous owner did to cause this. I thought it might be because I had the
>wrong wheel on it....which I did, but replacing it with the correct one
>didn't fix it.

>Thanks
>John

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:16:02 EST
From: CCSSportz

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: F-100 Steering wheels

In a message dated 12/2/98 7:09:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcbeatty

rmi.net
writes:

>

Can you describe this gap? I may have the same thing on the column of my '79.
I don't know what I'm looking at, so I can't really recognise a "problem" with
it - It just looks weird........

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:27:53 EST
From: OldTrux

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Idiot Lights/Split

I have both idiot lights AND gauges! The ammeter always shows charge. Will I
cook the battery? Am I getting feed-back through the bulb filament?
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:58:48 -0700
From: "Syber"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '78 Bronco Emissions

Can anyone give me an authorative answer as to what a '78 Bronco came with
as far as emissions go?

Paul Fogle
'79 Bronco Custom, 351M
4" Rough Country Suspension Lift, 33" BFG MT's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.htm?detailid=180

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Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:12:58 -0600
From: wiregoat

juno.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - List Split

An outstanding idea. I propose a list for "How do I keep my oil blowin',
oil burnin', rabbit chasin', gas guzzling, rust flaking Ford going down
the down and not falling over in my driveway?". This would work nicely
for us digest lurkers.
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:28:53 EST
From: JUMPINFORD

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug

I just remembered something about these, About 6 months ago someone offered to
sell me a 72 F-100 for 1000 dollars, It had the 300 six in it, and he kept
telling me it was a stock 1/2 to with the Dana 60. I just thought he was off
his rocker. The truck apparently came from the Air Force, more specifically,
the Nevada Test Site. Guess maybe he had somethin worth me buyin. Oh well.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:35:49 -0600
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?

>Looking for some quick advise. Anyone here welding in a replacement rust
>repair panel? I'm curious if tacking in a sheet metal strip, say 1" wide,
>behind the length of the weld would help with the butt weld of the
panels....
>Colorado Jeff

In the past I have always done lap joints, but that creates more finish work
and is not pro quality. Does anyone know where to find a cheapo panel
flanger that will work with an air hammer? They just sold a snap-on flanger
on ebay, but SCJ460 Randy bid the price way too high for me! :-)

later,
dale c
'79 f150, 351M

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:47:55 -0800
From: Carey & Norm
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue

'65-'79 would work for me, too. I'm mostly interested in the
mechanicals as well. i have a '65 that has a '76 front disc brake
I-beam assembly, a '76 460, and a '72 master cylinder and power
booster. I also don't seem to notice a lot of '61-'64 posts.
Just my input...
Norm
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:45:32 -0800
From: "sam weatherby"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue

You used the whole I beam fron the '76 or just the spindles and brake
hardware?
-srw
- -----Original Message-----
From: Carey & Norm
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 5:47 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: List split issue

>'65-'79 would work for me, too. I'm mostly interested in the
>mechanicals as well. i have a '65 that has a '76 front disc brake
>I-beam assembly, a '76 460, and a '72 master cylinder and power
>booster. I also don't seem to notice a lot of '61-'64 posts.
>Just my input...
>Norm
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>

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Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 20:59:27 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - split

At 02:20 PM 12/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Just (another) thought--how about a 4x4 and 2x4 split, keeping the years
>the same. I thought of this as I was scanning through and trashing the
>4-wheel drive threads, which may be interesting, but simply don't apply to
>anything I have...just an idea.
>

We have the offroad list already. Its doing fairly well.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 21:04:44 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: More list split ideas

After careful consideration, I think a list split is
not the best idea. The pre61 list doesn't have alot
of traffic, and I'd hate to create a 57-64 list if
it just dies.

Instead, as suggested, I'm going to put up a vote this
weekend to restructure the lists. The restructuring
would be to make the pre61 into a 64 and older list
and the the 61-79 list into a 65-79 list. In the
future, further splitting may be required, but there's
a point where knowledge is diluted by too many splits.

More article submissions would probably help the traffic.
I know that the headlight relay and disc brake conversion
guides have helped.

Ken

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:09:52 -0500
From: "The Freeman Family"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 rods

Thanks Azie! I was still a little fuzzy on that from the last 410 go
'round.

- -Ted
- -----Original Message-----
From: am14

daimlerchrysler.com
To: 61-79-list

Ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 1:00 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 rods

>Freeman family writes: >>I believe the 410 rod and 390 rod are slightly
>different.
>
>Nope. !!! Same length. Different stroke is compensated for due totally
>to the difference in wristpin location in piston. 410 is a super torquer.
>A lot more than one would expect from the additional 20 CID's it gives over
>the 390. The difference is more noticeable than the difference between
>the 360 and the 390, which is a lot IMHO.
>
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al.
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:32:39 -0800
From: Don
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: List split

.THANKS Ken for all the GREAT work you have done! it IS appreciated!
FIRST of all, WHATEVER makes LESS work and headaches for Ken is a high
priority.

A list split is simple as I see it.

currently,if you miss 3 days,you get 300 messages to go thru
(approximately) 91 mssgs as of 5pm pacific time
currently,if you only want to read about specific years...You have to read
all 91 posts or unsubscribe

with a list split those who WANT to read all,CAN subscribe to ALL
with a list split, it gives people an option of reading and learning about
their interests as opposed to
the choice of wading thru all the posts or unsubscribing due to too much
traffic

pretty simple...those who don't want the split, how about giving those of
us who want a split a CHOICE????
THANKS to all those that post all the informative posts and thanks for
listening
Just my humble (and fair i hope) opinion

BB chatroom name: broncodon
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT
400 ,C6,NP205,4.11 open diffs,16" wheels LT235/85/R16
Organization: I Cahoot With No One!!
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 19:42:44 -0600
From: "Michael R. Masse"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels

If you're just looking for the rubber part, you can get them in the
"help" section of your favorite parts store for around $5.

CCSSportz

aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/2/98 3:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> deconstructing

hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> expensive. >>
>
> What does one for a '79 F-150 4x4 go for??
> Just curious.........
>
> -Shawn
> & 'ZILLA
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 22:03:55 -0800
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 66 Brakes Lights

Peter wrote:
Speaking of brakes again, the brake lights do not light up when the
brake pedal is pushed...the lights do come one when the parking lights
are one, but they do not glow brighter when the brake is pushed
(dual-stage bulb is required?)...does anyone have an idea where to start
on solving this problem???
My response:
If you are going to drive a 32 year truck, you should own a voltmeter
(multimeter) and have a schematic. You can buy a decent one at Sears and....

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