61-79-list-digest Tuesday, December 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 541



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Classics4sale
Re: FTE 61-79 - Front end to low
FTE 61-79 - Incomplete Digest
FTE 61-79 - dash trim
FTE 61-79 - ammeters
FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s
FTE 61-79 - Re Body Mount Inserts
FTE 61-79 - rear gear swap
FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat
FTE 61-79 - cab mount question
FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
FTE 61-79 - Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
Re: FTE 61-79 - Breaker-less points system
Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -
Re: FTE 61-79 - cab mount question - Found somethind for 'ya!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -
RE: FTE 61-79 - cab mount question - Found somethind for 'ya!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - ammeters
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ack! Electrical Problem
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ack! Electrical Problem
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -
FTE 61-79 - Holly question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Holly question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug
FTE 61-79 - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug
Re: FTE 61-79 - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE 61-79 - no interior heat
Re: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel alignment
Re: FTE 61-79 - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE 61-79 - cab mount question - Found somethind for 'ya!!

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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:02:14 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Classics4sale

Dear Ford Truck Enthusiasts list members:

We have a new advertiser on our web site. Since the beginning,
our practice with web site advertisers has been to make a brief
announcement for 2 days (this is day 1 of 2). Please show your
appreciation to Classics4Sale.com for helping to support the web
site and the lists by checking them out:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.classics4sale.com/

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.classics4sale.com has been online since January 1997.
This site offers the public a listing of classic cars and trucks
for sale/trade in the United States and Canada.

If you use their services or enjoy their site, we would like to
you to let them know you heard about them via Ford Truck Enthusiasts.

Now returning you to our regularly scheduled program...

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:34:09 -0500 (EST)
From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Front end to low

Thanks Jeff
I will call around today about the springs . I will let you know what i
find out about price . And yes it is a 77 it has the hydraulic ram .

Randy
1970 F100 2WD
1978 F150 2WD
1977 F250 4WD

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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:18:43 -0600
From: "James Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Incomplete Digest

I received only 1/2 of the #539 61-72 Digest. It cut off at the file
attachment. Could you please resend?

Jim E.



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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:55:55 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - dash trim

Sorry to whomever asked, too much turkey. Someone was looking for dash trim
that came from a 57 Ch# v* and others that has the swirlies. It suddenly
hit me that I have seen the stuff that I think you are looking for
advertised in Low Rider Magazine. I'm at work and the mags are somewhere in
my son's possesion. Send me an off list e-mail if you need me to go dig.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:05:22 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ammeters

I am going to throw in my 2 cents on this thread, too. If you really want
to know what your charging system is doing, get a volt meter. An ammeter is
absolutely worthless IMHO. Look at any late model car or truck equipped
with factory gauges. It has a volt meter. A volt meter tells you very
quickly if you are under charging, over charging, or not charging.

You need an ammeter when you are checking a starter to see if it is pulling
too much juice and needs an overhaul.

Enough said, asbestos drawers in place and ready.................


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:24:11 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s

Shawn,

You may be able to find 5 lug 16.5s, but you really don't want them. My
brother put some huge tires on a 4x2 G#C 15" 6 lug wheels. He drove about
600 miles and thought he had a flat only to discover that one wheel had
broken three lug bolts off. If you are going to off-road, you will be
pounding your wheels and tires. There is a reason that the bigger wheels
have more lug bolts: stress. My only suggestion is to keep things like this
in mind. It may look cool, it may bolt right up, but it might also break
real quick when you want it to least. Build your truck the way you want it,
but don't jump in blind just because someone else has done it or worse says
it can be done. Remember, if it breaks while you are doing 70 down the
highway, you don't want to take out whoever is coming at you in the other
lane. I've been building on cars and trucks for almost 35 years. I wish I
had been able to talk to the folks on this list when I first started out.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:29:22 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Tony Marino wrote:
>
> Hey OX! Not to change the subject and all-- BUT!!!
>

> My 78 F-250 4x4 that I'm putting the 460, spicer-24, and NP-435 in *WAS*
> originally a full-time transfer case setup. The front axle is an open
> knuckle, Dana-60 with the full-time 4x4 hubs and dual piston disk brakes.
> For the setup I'm going to be running I DEFINITLY want to convert the front
> end to have lockouts. I prefer the look of the large (external drive)
> lockout setup, but if easier, would go the small lockout (internal) design
> like on the 1/2 tons.

I have locking mechanisms that are mechnically driven in both
directions. No spring on mine, but the internal locking stuff will bolt
into the same hub as the the dana 60 fronts that are internal with
chrome ring and plastic rotating knob. I'm not sure if I have what is
called "external", but what I have does not look like the 75-76 type
external hubs I have seen on dana 44 HD fronts.

> What are my options for converting this axle?

I have no idea where I would even get parts if I blew something. Most
people do not want to break up a dana 60 front as they go for 500$ and
up.

>Can I buy a conversion kit?

I've never seen one, but I never looked. I am surprised they had full
time 4WD with dana 60 front

> Do I need a donor axle?

Maybe, but those are bucks.

> Will Dana-44 HD axle parts work?

Only rotors and calipers, everything else is different

OX
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 08:36:59 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!

Lots of discussion on the 360/390 front, mind if I add to the confusion ?

Some of you are probably tired of hearing about my search for more torque,
but I have made progress. This weekend I bought a 390 ... cheap, had all
the accessories (even a/c w/all brackets!). So to get it out of the back
of my truck I had to take it apart so I could lift it ... well me and a
friend anyway.

So I get it all apart and start lookin at part numbers and such ... seems
like a 74 block (D4TE), and everything was looking good since I've done
several head gaskets that part was cake, as was the front since I've done
that before, but I'd never taken the crank actually out before, so that was
fun (if heavy). Now my questions ...

The connecting rods seem to have different part numbers on them ... is this
normal ? One of them is C7AE (and a number/letter I can't read now)
another seems to be RA652 B

Okay the C7 doesn't bother me, actually like seein 60's part numbers (67
right?), but the other bother's me ... is that a replacement part number ?
Are there numbers front and back ?

And to add to things, I was checking the pistons to see if they were for a
bored out engine, scared to death I was gonna find a 60 stamped on them,
instead I didn't find anything except 410 cast next to the wrist pin. Why
would 410 be on the side of a 390 piston ? I thought we had a discussion
that said these were different pistons, would this just make an incredible
compression ratio then ?

As for the heads, those also seem to have mis matched numbers ... one is
5M15 the other seems to be CSM8....

Is this all normal and I'm being paranoid, or have things been juggled
around a bit on this engine. Everything looked pretty good, no excessive
wear marks or anything, just the lip at the top of the cylinder from an old
engine ...

Oh yeah, can't find a darn thing about the crank, IE no numbers that I can
find, where exactly should I look (checked everywhere I thought, but
obviously missed something)

Thanks if anyone can help.

Bill
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:49:57 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s

John LaGrone wrote:
>
> Shawn,
>
> You may be able to find 5 lug 16.5s, but you really don't want them. My
> brother put some huge tires on a 4x2 G#C 15" 6 lug wheels. He drove about
> 600 miles and thought he had a flat only to discover that one wheel had
> broken three lug bolts off. If you are going to off-road, you will be
> pounding your wheels and tires. There is a reason that the bigger wheels
> have more lug bolts: stress.

I can't agree here. A fellow wheeling buddy has a 79 Bronc with dana
60 rear and stock 44, 5 lug front axle. He has 5 lug, 16.5 wheels on
front and 38.5 X 14.5 X 16.5 Super Swampers. He beats his truck pretty
good and never had a problem. My friend got stuck so bad once that when
I winched him out, I pulled his front tire right off the rim and dragged
the rim through 20 feet of mud. No broken anything. I've tried to locate
these rims, but have not been able to find a manufacturer. I'd say if
you can find them from a reputable manufacturer, go for it.


OX
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:46:35 -0500
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re Body Mount Inserts


Has anyone bought a cab mount kit (like from Energy Suspension) for the
73-79
F-series? I'm curious if the rubber bushings come complete with the metal
inserts, or if you are supposed to try and use the old metal parts....

Colorado Jeff





Hi Jeff

I you can and they are in good shape you had better save them. They (energy
suspension, or anyone else) don't make or sell them. Had the same problem.

A Ford dealer has told me that he can get replacement "retainers" for my 79
Bronco. (He sized up the "new" ones from the old ones I had, (which were
pieces of sh*t).

If you like I can get the part numbers for you, or anyone else. (WARNING -
I have not purchased these yet! I am going to do so after I get my body
mount bushings from Energy Suspension in the new year. I have no way of
being sure that these are 100% correct.)

Note - The body mount retainers cost $15.00 each (for upper or lower) and I
believe that they may be different from the F 150 F 250 and the Bronco.
(FORD manual show different ones for some of them - for 79 anyway.)

Hope this helps.

Later

"Paul"


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:14:02 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - rear gear swap

Michael writes: >>I bought a set of 3.50 rear ends out of a '76 F100. I
tried to install the rear end yesterday and found that the axle housing was
almost 5 inches longer than the existing! The leaf spring attach
points are the same way. When I pulled the axles out, they were 33
spline. I spent 8 hours just to bleed my brakes!

Can anyone tell me what I have and what will work in a '71? I am
interested in getting the four wheel drive working. I might consider
a 4.11 for the rear at this point. Will it fit in the existing
housing? Should I just part out the truck and start over? Inquiring
minds want to know.

The rears of both trucks should be the Ford 9". Center sections should be
interchangeable if the axle spline count is the same (which should be
either 28 or 31 splines I believe - not 33).

The front would need to have a ring gear and pinion replacement as the
center section is not removable in the Dana.

By the way - you need to use the same ratios front & rear. You can go 3.50
and 3.55 or 4.10 and 4.11 or something like that, but to get much more
difference than that in a road vehicle is asking for problems IMHO.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:18:04 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat

Ox writes: >>Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug

Hi all

Can anyone tell me what years had this axle?

Never seen one myself. Never heard of one before this appeared. I thought
all dana 60's were 8 lug or 6 lug, with the 6 lug being very scarce.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:24:01 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - cab mount question

Hey Don,

Yes, this is what I found out....and since the metal pieces were crushed
together, the little bit of rust in there froze them up, meaning that several
of the washers did not survive the removal process....know what I'm saying? I
guess I need to find a kit with all the metal parts included.....anyone know
of such a thing? Ford says they can order new mounts, but they can't tell me
if the metal parts are there....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:23:35 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Hey Tony,

A few thoughts on your conversion. The Dana 44HD external locking hubs look
cool (I went to quite a bit of trouble finding a set to install on mine), but
they may not be the way to go (assuming that they CAN be used on the 60). For
one, the spindles for this setup have been discontinued and are practically
impossible to find. I finally had a set shipped from Michigan.

Next, you mentioned that you want to "lock up" that front diff. Well, I
installed a Dana Trak Lok in my 44, and it takes a little patience to get
those external hubs unlocked once they are engaged. I still haven't figured
out the trick to get it the first time, it takes me a few minutes of rolling
back and forth, getting out, etc. etc. until they will unlock. This is because
there is a small amount of residual torque between the front two wheels which
gets transfered through the diff clutches and keeps some pressure on the hubs.
I've looked at the Warn hubs, and they shouldn't stick at all because of the
spring design they use. But since I don't need to lock these in that often,
and because I went to so much trouble to install them, I'll keep the
externals.

Now, I'm working on a 77-1/2 F-250 4x4 that has the smaller looking hubs (look
like 1/2 ton locking mechanisms), but the hubs themselves are pretty heavy
duty and have the dual piston calipers....might be the way to go if some of
these parts are interchangeable between the 44 and 60...have to wait on OX to
answer that for us....

Colorado Jeff











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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:23:51 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug

Hey Ox,

I can tell you that my 69 F-100 4x4 came with this axle.....hope you aren't
looking for one, I just swapped mine out for an 8 lug unit and dropped off the
old one at the junkyard.....didn't know what else to do with it. Whats
interesting is that I was able to use the Power-Lok limited slip unit from
this axle in the newer 8 -lug Dana 60....nice to see interchangeable parts
like this....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:35:16 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 5 lug semifloat

am14 daimlerchrysler.com wrote:
>
> Ox writes: >>Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug
>
> Hi all
>
> Can anyone tell me what years had this axle?
>
> Never seen one myself. Never heard of one before this appeared. I thought
> all dana 60's were 8 lug or 6 lug, with the 6 lug being very scarce.
>

OK, I thought I heard a thread about it on this list a while ago (about
F-100 rears or possibly F-250 2WD rears). What other, if any,
semi-float axles were there in 60-70's trucks besides 9"??

OX
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:44:26 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

BDIJXS aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Tony,
>
> A few thoughts on your conversion. The Dana 44HD external locking hubs look
> cool (I went to quite a bit of trouble finding a set to install on mine), but
> they may not be the way to go (assuming that they CAN be used on the 60).

I don't think external Dana 44 HD stuff can be used on dana 60. Is dana
4 HD wheel hub the same as dana 44 HD internal wheel hub? Dana 60 wheel
hub is huge compared to dana 44 internal wheel hub.

For
> one, the spindles for this setup have been discontinued and are practically
> impossible to find. I finally had a set shipped from Michigan.
>
> Next, you mentioned that you want to "lock up" that front diff. Well, I
> installed a Dana Trak Lok in my 44, and it takes a little patience to get
> those external hubs unlocked once they are engaged. I still haven't figured
> out the trick to get it the first time, it takes me a few minutes of rolling
> back and forth, getting out, etc. etc. until they will unlock. This is because
> there is a small amount of residual torque between the front two wheels which
> gets transfered through the diff clutches and keeps some pressure on the hubs.

I have no problems and I have a detroit up front.

> I've looked at the Warn hubs, and they shouldn't stick at all because of the
> spring design they use. But since I don't need to lock these in that often,
> and because I went to so much trouble to install them, I'll keep the
> externals.
>
> Now, I'm working on a 77-1/2 F-250 4x4 that has the smaller looking hubs (look
> like 1/2 ton locking mechanisms)

Outer chrome ring, plastic knob and locking stuff are identical,
everything else is different, except possibly outer bearing (comparing
std 44 front with HD 44 front, internal lcok hub stuff).

>, but the hubs themselves are pretty heavy
> duty and have the dual piston calipers..

As far as I can tell, inner bearing is larger, while outer bearing is
the same. I've never verified outer bearing. Since original poster
claimed he had twin pis calipers, I assume he allready has dana 44 HD
front.

>..might be the way to go if some of
> these parts are interchangeable between the 44 and 60..

See other post about this.

OX
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 11:05:59 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

Yo!

>A few thoughts on your conversion. The Dana 44HD external locking hubs look
>cool (I went to quite a bit of trouble finding a set to install on mine), but
>they may not be the way to go (assuming that they CAN be used on the 60).

Yeah, I have ONLY seen TWO dana-60's with the large lockout, external
mechanisms on them- one is owned by friend and is in a '72 F-250 (pretty
sure military setup though) and another was in a '75 owned by some people
in Montana I bought my '70 off of. These two axles, which had them, were
closed knuckle, drum brake, low pinion axles, so I have no idea *if* they
put the large assy. on the disk front that I have.

>Next, you mentioned that you want to "lock up" that front diff. Well, I
>installed a Dana Trak Lok in my 44, and it takes a little patience to get
>those external hubs unlocked once they are engaged.

8-) My '78 F-150 has welded spider gears in the front now too! (did that
when I converted to shortbed) I know EXACTLY what you mean! Pain in the
royal a$$ to get those suckers out when the diff is bound. That's where a
good pair of channel lock pliers comes in handy!

>Now, I'm working on a 77-1/2 F-250 4x4 that has the smaller looking hubs
(look
>like 1/2 ton locking mechanisms), but the hubs themselves are pretty heavy
>duty and have the dual piston calipers....might be the way to go if some of
>these parts are interchangeable between the 44 and 60.

It sounds like what I have on the 60 from the spindle out- the hub is huge
where the fulltime gears are at, and the per-say "grease cap" is about the
size of the chrome ring and plastic turn cap on the half tons. that's
where I was curious if I bought a warn lockout kit (if they even make them
for the large hub design) would bolt into this fulltime system somehow- Are
the "hubs" the same between the fulltime and partime system? If the
splines in the hub are the same.... Hmm... Maybe I just answered my own
question...

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:11:27 PST
From: "Bubba F250"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there

>From: Dennis Pearson
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
>
>> I have seen increases of 25HP over what Mark
>>described. If you get 250 HP out of the 351M you are virtually
>>100HP above what the factory made.
>
>...compared to a '70 Mercury 429 bone stock 2-barrel rated
>at 330 hp. The 429/460 seems more efficient (hp:$) than
>trying to beef up the 351/400M. Just couldn't resist
>editorializing...

Yo Dennis:

In 1971, before SAE "net" power measurements, the 400 was rated at 260
hp 4400 rpm. By comparison, in 1971 the 460 was rated at 365 hp
4600 rpm. Bear in mind that these numbers compare a 400 with a 2V
carberetor and 9.0:1 compression ratio to a 460 with a 4V carb and
10.5:1 compression ratio.

1971 is an interesting year to compare because the 400 had its original
flat top pistons and a decent compression ratio. If you consider that
the 1971 351C 4V was rated at 285 hp 5400 rpm with a 9.0:1 compression
ratio, you begin get an idea of the 400's awesome power potential. I'd
estimate that with a 4V carb, a decent cam (like the 351C had), a 10.5:1
compression ratio (like the 460 had), and 1971-era emission controls,
the 400 could have easily put out 325+ hp.

The next year (1972), when more aggressive emission controls were
implemented and SAE net power measurements were used, the difference
between the power output of the 400 and 460 was even narrower: 172 hp
4000 rpm (400) vs 212 hp 4400 rpm (460).

Comparing maximum torque figures for 1972 (SAE net measurements) shows
even more dramatically how close the two engines' power output is: 298
ft lb 2200 rpm (400) vs 342 ft lb 2800 rpm (460). At its peak
torque, the 400 produces almost 90% of the peak torque of the 460, and
it does it at less than 80% of the 460's engine speed.

The 1972 comparison is a little more fair because the 460's compression
was dropped, too. Now we're comparing a 400 with 8.4:1 compression to a
460 with 8.5:1 compression. Don't forget, though, we're still comparing
a 400 2V to a 460 4V.

Just couldn't resist responding to your editorializing....

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 11:12:03 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

This is an interesting thread, I've been kind of following along 'cause
I've got the 44 front (1/2 ton) that used to be full time, but when I got
it, it had the part time hubs in it. They're nice and all, but to lock
them I have to turn them 270degrees instead of the 90 that most of them
seem to need. There are also no manufacturer's names on any of the parts
of the hub! No idea who made them or anything, but they work so I haven't
changed them yet.

I'm just wondering about this external thing you guys are talking about,
don't think I've ever seen it, but maybe I have and didn't know it ...
anyone got any pictures of this stuff ?


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:23:57 PST
From: "Jerald Merrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?

Placing the 1 inch strip behind the replacement pannel will help and
make a better weld. You don't have to worry so much about putting a
burn hole in the panel. Plus will work as a heat sink reducing the
chance of worpage.
Jerald
Wyoming
Mr. Ranger

>From owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com Mon Nov 30 15:16:14 1998
>Received: (fordtruc localhost) by ford-trucks.com (8.8.5) id SAA00415;
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ford-trucks.com (8.8.5) id SAA00377; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:12:43 -0500
(EST)
>From: BDIJXS aol.com
>Received: from BDIJXS aol.com
> by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 9USHa08006
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(EST)
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>Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:04:37 EST
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - welding body panels?
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>
>Looking for some quick advise. Anyone here welding in a replacement
rust
>repair panel? I'm curious if tacking in a sheet metal strip, say 1"
wide,
>behind the length of the weld would help with the butt weld of the
panels....
>
>Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:30:36 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there

>the 400's awesome power potential.

You go Dave...... M-blocks forever, heeheeheehee.

OX
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:31:16 PST
From: "Jerald Merrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Breaker-less points system

I had a 69 F-100 for many years and I put about 150,000 miles. Only
troble was a warn out distributer that wasn't changed when it was
rebuilt (first owner), The distributers shaft and insides start waring
down, which makes the points open differently everytime. I bought a new
distributer for about $50. And I never had a porblem with it again. Just
a thought
Jerald
Wyoming
Mr. Ranger


>From owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com Mon Nov 30 19:10:38 1998
>Received: (fordtruc localhost) by ford-trucks.com (8.8.5) id WAA12448;
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>From: "b hp"
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Breaker-less points system
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:04:15 PST
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id WAA12448
>
>Has anyone installed a breaker-less points system for a 65 F-100 |6 =20
>240..? If so any names that stand out...someone suggested Pertronix.
I=20
>am using my truck for 120 mile trips every weekend and the timing is=20
>starting too need much attention for my liking. Someone told me that=20
>this was a flaw of these engines and that they were hard to keep=20
>timed..I didn=92t buy it. I had a Chevy with a 230 |6 that only
needed=20
>adjusting about twice a year. I can't see too much difference
between=20
>the two setups. So I=92m a little stumped. Electronic ignition maybe
the=20
>way to go. Any thoughts?
>
>I found some fairly useful general information in this older
book=85"Fix=20
>your Ford" Ford V8 - |6 1977-66 ISBN 0-87006-226-3 12345-77 by:
Bill=20
>Toboldt published 1977
>
>Bruce
>1965 F-100 |6 240 (M-100??) Mercury 2WD P/U
>
>
>______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:34:08 PST
From: "Jerald Merrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels

I missed what the origional problem was. Sorry, Let me know, Please I'd
be gald to help.
Jerald
Wyoming
Mr. Ranger

>From owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com Mon Nov 30 20:13:38 1998
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>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
>Sender: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
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>
>>I have a 71 Ford Ranger, But I don't have the mesurements, but I know
>>Ford had two different size wheels. One for the plane jane and one
for
>>a packaged deals.
>>
>
>Thanks for the reply. I now have the right steering wheel. It's the one
>with the single bar accross and has the rubber horn pad in it.
>
>Unfortunately that has not solved my problem.
>
>Thanks
>John
>
>
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:34:10 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -

In a message dated 12/1/98 9:29:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, jlagrone ford-
trucks.com writes:


but don't jump in blind just because someone else has done it or worse says
it can be done. Remember, if it breaks while you are doing 70 down the
highway, you don't want to take out whoever is coming at you in the other
lane. >>

What do you want me to do? It has 36" on the rear, and 35" on the front
now......
It has a 6" susp lift, and a 3" body lift!!!!!!
Are you suggesting I get 15 inch tires for my 15 inch rims?? That's a little
out of the Question........ I can't find the bigger tires (like the ones I
have on now) that will fit on my 15" rims, and even if I could, I wouldn't
because they are splitties. My only option is the 16.5's
unless you can suggest something else or find me some tires that will fot on
my rims......

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA " - I don't call it that because I am
hoping for it to be huge. IT IS, I can't put 15's on it......the damn 36's
look SMALL!!!!!!!!
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:42:14 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana-60 fulltime front axle to partime conversion

William S Hart wrote:
>
> This is an interesting thread, I've been kind of following along 'cause
> I've got the 44 front (1/2 ton) that used to be full time, but when I got
> it, it had the part time hubs in it. They're nice and all, but to lock
> them I have to turn them 270degrees instead of the 90 that most of them
> seem to need.

I think Ford used locking hubs like these in certain years. Ford had so
many hubs for dana 44 fronts, it's hard to keep track.


> I'm just wondering about this external thing you guys are talking about,
> don't think I've ever seen it, but maybe I have and didn't know it ...
> anyone got any pictures of this stuff ?


check out

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.medicine.wisc.edu/~mrm/bronco/

Follow "axle/lift/gear" to "front dana 44 HD" and click "here" to see
ext hubs.

OX
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:57:12 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -

CCSSportz aol.com wrote:
>

> Are you suggesting I get 15 inch tires for my 15 inch rims?? That's a little
> out of the Question........ I can't find the bigger tires (like the ones I
> have on now) that will fit on my 15" rims,

What are you looking for? Super swamper makes up to 44" in 15" rim size.

OX
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:12:11 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - cab mount question - Found somethind for 'ya!!

In a message dated 12/1/98 10:28:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, BDIJXS aol.com
writes:



Yes, this is what I found out....and since the metal pieces were crushed
together, the little bit of rust in there froze them up, meaning that several
of the washers did not survive the removal process....know what I'm saying? I
guess I need to find a kit with all the metal parts included.....anyone know
of such a thing? Ford says they can order new mounts, but they can't tell me
if the metal parts are there....

Colorado Jeff >>

I'm gonna but my 2c in here........
Like I said I saw something in the JCW catalog.......
Page 26 in the Everything......strange, not in the pickup catalog. Anyway,

FRONT-CAB-MOUNT Repair Panels
For 61-79 Ford Pickups
Holds cab at it's original height,
Bolts over rusted area in wheel well, and under front of cab.
Helps solve these problems:
1) "tight" spots in steering caused by misalignment of steering column to
steering box
2) loss of clutch adjustment on standard shift models
3) wide gaps between door and fender
4)"sticky" or non operational shift lever

Made of Cold-rolled gauge steel, with welded seams. Easy to install,
instructions included.

61-64 pickup - 26.95 each
65-79 pickup - 34.95 each

After rereading your post, maybe this isn't what you are looking
for...........maybe, rather than delete thins someone else may want the info.
I know I am going to look into getting a pair of these for my truck! Sound
like a lifesaver quick fix for two problem's I'm having, and maybe a third.
Anyone else out there use these? Any comments/suggestions on their use?

Thanks,
- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M -- " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:38:24 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -

In a message dated 12/1/98 1:08:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, luxjo thecore.com
writes:

>

OX,
I just want a cheap used set of 4 oversized tires that'll fit on some rims
that I can get cheap, or my 15" rims..........36" or bigger because I have the
36" back there now and they look small as it is........

Can you help me find a set?

- -Shawn
79 f-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:50:26 -0500
From: "Jay Grover"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - cab mount question - Found somethind for 'ya!!

I'm planning on getting a set of these soon, as mine are "gone". I can see
bits of them, but basically they rotted completely away on both sides. I'm
also planning on getting new floorboards as well from JCW.
Anyone have any comments on these parts? Decent quality from JCW? This
isn't a concourse project by any means (I fully intend to beat the living
h*ll out of this truck when its done!), but I want to make sure I get parts
that fit up decently.

TIA,
Jay
'73 F250 360, 4spd, Camper Special

>
> I'm gonna but my 2c in here........
> Like I said I saw something in the JCW catalog.......
> Page 26 in the Everything......strange, not in the pickup catalog. Anyway,
>
> FRONT-CAB-MOUNT Repair Panels
> For 61-79 Ford Pickups
> Holds cab at it's original height,
> Bolts over rusted area in wheel well, and under front of cab.
> Helps solve these problems:
> 1) "tight" spots in steering caused by misalignment of steering column to
> steering box
> 2) loss of clutch adjustment on standard shift models
> 3) wide gaps between door and fender
> 4)"sticky" or non operational shift lever
>
> Made of Cold-rolled gauge steel, with welded seams. Easy to install,
> instructions included.
>
> 61-64 pickup - 26.95 each
> 65-79 pickup - 34.95 each
>
> After rereading your post, maybe this isn't what you are looking
> for...........maybe, rather than delete thins someone else may
> want the info.
> I know I am going to look into getting a pair of these for my truck! Sound
> like a lifesaver quick fix for two problem's I'm having, and
> maybe a third.
> Anyone else out there use these? Any comments/suggestions on their use?
>
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
> 79 F-150 4x4, 351M -- " 'ZILLA "
> Cambridge, NY
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:53:32 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ammeters

John wrote:
>I am going to throw in my 2 cents on this thread, too. If you really want
>to know what your charging system is doing, get a volt meter. An ammeter is
>absolutely worthless IMHO. Look at any late model car or truck equipped
>with factory gauges. It has a volt meter. A volt meter tells you very
>quickly if you are under charging, over charging, or not charging.

John, I agree with you that a voltmeter is a much better instrument
for keeping track of the charging system than an ammeter is.
Knowing how many amps the charging system is/isn't putting out is
a fairly useless thing. I couldn't care less how many amps the
alternator is moving, as long as the correct system voltage is
being maintained...
If I've got a system voltage of between 13.5-14.5 volts with the motor
running, then I know my battery/alternator/regulator is happy.
If it's much below or above that range, then I start to wonder why...
A voltmeter does provide valuable information that an ammeter doesn't.

Still, it would be nice if the ammeters on the Ford trucks worked
right from the factory, cuz even that would be more useful than the
big nothing you get with the stock gauge...


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:53:30 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ack! Electrical Problem

Pat wrote:
>The following wires are connected to the regulator:
>"I" : No connection (Idiot light circuit)
>"A" : Yellow
>"S" : Green / Red stripe
>"F" : Orange
>GROUNDED (regulator frame), a Black/orange-stripe wire.
>
>I suspect that the regulator "S" wire (Green/Red) runs off to
>the ignition switch, but without a real schematic I'll say
>that is an educated guess on my part. This would provide a
>path to both turn the regulator on by activating the field
>relay with the ignition switch, and circuit isolation when
>the key is off.
>
>At the alternator, the following appear (the back of the alt
>is against the head, I was looking thru a mirror) to be hooked
>up:
>
>GRD: No connection
>Ground: Black-Orange stripe. This is an unlabled connection.
>BAT: Big fat black wire. SPlices into Black/Yellow (infamous
> ammeter shunt?), and Yellow (To "A" regulator terminal?).
>FLD: Orange wire (To regulator "F" terminal?)
>STA: Nothing! Nada! No connection! Doesn't go anywhere!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Note that there are two ground connections, only one labled.
>The unlabled at first look appeared to be isolated, upon
>closer inspection I realized that it had a plastic wire loom
>holder bolted to it, with the black/orange wire on top of that.
>

Hmmm... I get it. Since the idiot light isn't used, the "I"
terminal on the regulator is left unused and the "S" terminal
on the regulator, instead of going to the stator on the alt
goes to the ignition switch instead. (where the idiot light
hooks up on the schematic I posted) That works...

So the blk/org wire is a ground connection between the
alternator body and the regulator body? Wow... no
wonder it got smoked when connected to the stator output...

If someone could come up with a wiring digram for the "ammeter"
style charging system, I'd put it up on my website along with
the "idiot light" style one I've got there now.


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:26:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ack! Electrical Problem

Steve wrote:

[Pat's Alt/reg wiring deleted]

>
> Hmmm... I get it. Since the idiot light isn't used, the "I"
> terminal on the regulator is left unused and the "S" terminal
> on the regulator, instead of going to the stator on the alt
> goes to the ignition switch instead. (where the idiot light
> hooks up on the schematic I posted) That works...

Yup. The ignition switch activates the field relay, then the
ammeter tells you :-) whether or not the alternator is actually
working.

> So the blk/org wire is a ground connection between the
> alternator body and the regulator body? Wow... no
> wonder it got smoked when connected to the stator output...

Yup. It shorts out half the diodes, turning it from a full wave
recifier to a half wave. You also lose half of the alternators
current capacity, at least until that skinny little wire opens
up from all the current flowing thru it! It shouldn't hurt
anything as long as the wires don't actually melt and short
together - ie, no fried transistors / diodes as a result of
the mis-wire. The heat melting and shorting other things together
could cause some real damage.

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:06:08 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 lug 16.5s -

CCSSportz aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/1/98 1:08:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, luxjo thecore.com
> writes:
>
> >
>
> OX,
> I just want a cheap used set of 4 oversized tires that'll fit on some rims
> that I can get cheap, or my 15" rims..........36" or bigger because I have the
> 36" back there now and they look small as it is........
>

Cheap and 36" tires are mutually exclusive. National tire has Coyote
radials with AT type tread for 131$ ea. It's a 315-85R15, which is 36"
dia and 11.4 section width. They also have a buckshot mudder in the same
size for 138$ ea. If you want cheaper than that, post to the offroad
mailing list and look in your local truck shoppers that list used tires
and stuff. Cheapest 38 is Super Swamper 38 X 12.5 X 15 161$ ea.

OX

> Can you help me find a set?
>
> -Shawn
> 79 f-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
> Cambridge, NY
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:31:34 -0500
From: Mike Elmer
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Holly question

Hey guys,I found a Holly 600 4v for my 360,the choke mechanism is missing the flapper is
their but that's it.Can I use the manual choke parts off the stosk 2v thats on it now?If
not what will work and where can I get the parts.Thanks Mike Elmer
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:45:13 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Holly question

At 02:31 PM 12/1/98 , you wrote:
>Hey guys,I found a Holly 600 4v for my 360,the choke mechanism is missing
>the flapper is
>their but that's it.Can I use the manual choke parts off the stosk 2v thats
>on it now?If
>not what will work and where can I get the parts.Thanks Mike Elmer

Hmmm ... I would think you could, though I've never looked for that ... you
know of course you can't get that to bolt on directly ... well 2 of the
bbls would be blocked anyway ... if they don't work you should be able to
get the choke stuff from the local parts vendor pretty cheap ... maybe just
another universal kit, or the holley points to let you attach to the
universal ...


I have a 600 on my 360, lots of fun :) Not sure it'll be enough for my 390
when i get it ready to go though ... *shrug* as long as it starts it and
keeps it running, then I can decide what I want for carbing (is that a word ?)

Anyway, good luck, lemme know how it goes ..

Bill
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:49:22 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug

BDIJXS aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Ox,
>
> I can tell you that my 69 F-100 4x4 came with this axle.....hope you aren't
> looking for one, I just swapped mine out for an 8 lug unit and dropped off the
> old one at the junkyard.....didn't know what else to do with it. Whats
> interesting is that I was able to use the Power-Lok limited slip unit from
> this axle in the newer 8 -lug Dana 60....nice to see interchangeable parts
> like this....
>

Actually, Norm from the Bronco list was looking for one (although I
think he is building a custom one at this point), but it would make a
nice upgrade for someone wanting a heavier duty 5 lug rear, without
extra weight of full floater and tire/wheel upgrade expense. How many
spline was it?

OX
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:44:46 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - My trucks #'s - got some of them

Hey, Here all all the numbers I get today -- Couldn't get any off the bottom
of the tranny, the T-case, or the front end......


Rearend Tag:
?DM-CN 8MB
50 9 361A

Rearend:
D2SWC
and
3218

Tranny.....on top of the tranny (as accessed from Cab) I couldn't get under it
- ---
it has two symbols:

One is a gearlike looking thing that has a combined N and P together like NP
but one...
So I'm guessing it is a New Process. And then below that there is a circle
with lines going inward converging around the number 69.

Then, up in front of the trans (looking towards the engine from Cab
access......) There were a bunch of numbers upside down --- Is this the
bellhousing?? Thos numbers were:

07TA75? (could be 0, 9, 8) then: 5AD
N1 Ford D (then a knob like thing o that sticks out) N

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please identify these #'s and save my life........ :o)


- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M -- " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY

Also - there are no VIN numbers on the dash.............
But on the cab. there is a sticker that is by the door contact thing......

Date: 12-78 GVWR: 6300LB
Front GAWR: 2990LB Rear GAWR: 3580LB
Tires: L78-15B Tires: L78-15B
Rims: 15x5.5K Rims: 15x5.5K

VIN: F14BEEC0499 ---- I'm confused at this, Says my orig eng. is a 300/6. I
want to check my title, because those numbers arent familliar either. I think
something is wrong.

Also in the corner is another number:
F0152
T0901
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:52:12 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dana 60 semi-float 5 lug

In a message dated 12/1/98 4:25:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, luxjo thecore.com
writes:


nice upgrade for someone wanting a heavier duty 5 lug rear, without
extra weight of full floater and tire/wheel upgrade expense. How many
spline was it? >>

Do you still have it? I may be interested..........to replace my Ford
9"......... Good idea maybe, or no??

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:25:02 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - My trucks #'s - got some of them

CCSSportz aol.com wrote:

>
> Tranny.....on top of the tranny (as accessed from Cab) I couldn't get under it
> ---
> it has two symbols:
>
> One is a gearlike looking thing that has a combined N and P together like NP
> but one...
> So I'm guessing it is a New Process. And then below that there is a circle
> with lines going inward converging around the number 69.
>
> Please identify these #'s and save my life........ :o)
>
> -Shawn
> 79 F-150 4x4, 351M -- " 'ZILLA "
> Cambridge, NY
>
> Also - there are no VIN numbers on the dash.............
> But on the cab. there is a sticker that is by the door contact thing......
>
> Date: 12-78 GVWR: 6300LB
> Front GAWR: 2990LB Rear GAWR: 3580LB
> Tires: L78-15B Tires: L78-15B
> Rims: 15x5.5K Rims: 15x5.5K
>
> VIN: F14BEEC0499 ---- I'm confused at this, Says my orig eng. is a 300/6. I
> want to check my title, because those numbers arent familliar either. I think
> something is wrong.

New Process put the year the shift tower is cast right on top, ( the lines and 69
in the center) so that would put the tranny from a 69 truck which goes along with
the non origional engine idea. Go for the numbers on the frame inside the engine
compartment, passenger side frame rail. They might be under the cab on the
passenger side so you might need a small dental type mirror. also match the vin
to the metal tag. You might get lucky and find an engine tag by the coil.
- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:24:57 -0500
From: David Wadson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - no interior heat

Sounds like your heater control valve is stuck shut or disconnected. Do
>your heater hoses go to the heater core? Look for the in-line valve. Some
>are cable operated, some vacuum. If they go to the core and there is no
>valve, then your heater core is plugged up.

The heater hoses go straight to the core, which is a brand new replacement.
There is the cable operated lever on the plastic heater assembly under the
dash. The cable itself is sticking somewhere between the dash and the lever
but I can manipulate the lever manually. I'm going to try switching the
hoses around. I assumed they were hooked up properly as I was going by my
buddy's 79. But it just dawned on me that he has an early 80's 302 from a
Grand Marquis that has a serpentine belt setup. Perhaps that water pump
outlets are a little different...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS2" - 78 F100 w/ 302 & C4


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:28:10 -0500
From: David Wadson
Subject: Re: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel alignment

>It's not worth it -- go to a boneyard and get a used one. I found one for my
>'79 F-150 4x4 for 50 bucks hoses and all..........Before I could call dibs, he
>sold it.......
>So the search becan again after calling around several places, I found one
>that was 85 bucks, good deal - bought it. Too bad I founf my problem not to be
>the box!!!!!! Luckily I got him to refund me the $$.......
>Just look as ye shall find.

I'm sure I can find one it just that the boneyard is either snow covered at
this time of year. It's been unseasonably warm this year so there's little
snow left from the dumping we got in November but it's turned to scrapyard
into a mud bog. I'm leaning towards a rebuild for the same reason I....


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