FTE 61-79 - Ack! Electrical Problem

61-79-list-digest Monday, November 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 539

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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Ack! Electrical Problem
FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
Re: FTE 61-79 - HOW DO I POST?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 79 F-250 in Barrow, Alaska
FTE 61-79 - Front end to low
FTE 61-79 - ragjoint
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
FTE 61-79 - Rag joint replacement
FTE 61-79 - backfiring
FTE 61-79 - C6
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150
FTE 61-79 - 1977 F150 power steering
Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels
FTE 61-79 - Obsolete part needed!
Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE offroad - Gearing questions..........Among other things....
FTE 61-79 - slipping C6
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ack! Electrical Problem
FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Timing chain alternative
FTE 61-79 - f250 in Barrow
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE offroad - Gearing questions..........Among other things....
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - slipping C6
FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!
RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Obsolete part needed!
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Rag joint replacement
RE: FTE 61-79 - Steering Stabilizer on Van
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Front end to low
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel alignment
FTE 61-79 - C6 question
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel align ment
RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Gearing questions..........Among other things....
FTE 61-79 - painting yourself
FTE 61-79 - no interior heat
FTE 61-79 - 360-390
FTE 61-79 - Re: Ack! Electrical Problem

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 04:48:39 -0600
From: "J Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Ack! Electrical Problem

Well, I have run into an electrical problem with mine and could use some
assistance:

Model - '69 F-100, 360, AT, 'orange' alternator?, solid-state replacement
regulator (less than 6 mos old), wiring stock (some repair splices) except
one reroute of turn signals to make flasher operate (6 mos old), no changes
to wiring for 5 mos., battery is 1050 amp - 7 mos. old.

Background - Sat. PM the truck acted as if battery was low and would not
start. I could find nothing 'on' to drain power, checked bat. terminals,
etc. I put the battery on a charger and took my Jeep. Sun. AM I pull all the
old, brittle and cracked cables - ground, bat.-to-solenoid,
solenoid-to-starter. I figure what the heck, I will pull the alternator and
have it checked while I am at it. At this point, I have 3 connections, heavy
gauge (black I think, referred to as such from here) to Bat, Red to Fld (or
vice versa, it is early in the AM at the moment and too dark to double
check, but these cannot be reversed due to connectors being matched to
terminal diameters and incorporated into the large molded rubber plug), and
a black/red (black with red or orange stripe) connected to GRD.
I take the alternator to the parts store, and it checks okay, 14.5 - 15
volts 150 amps at no load. During the check, I note that the BAT and FLD
terminals are used, and so is the STA. I comment that my third lead goes to
GRD, not STA. The discussion ensues that the alternator will ground via its
mount, that usually a STA lead is used. I question would the STA lead be
used to drive the ammeter as mine has never worked, and the attendant says
indeed it normally does. I think I am onto something. I call a couple of
folks, including one FTE breatheren who checks wiring diagram and (Ford)
manuals and verifies that it seems the third (black/red) lead should go to
STA.
I note that the black/red lead is a bit brittle, and has had its
terminal ring replaced, and will be stretching to reach the STA lead. So I
cut back a bit, solder on a new lead of the same gauge with a new terminal
ring. In the process of reconnecting, the terminal of the red lead (in the
molded rubber plug) breaks right at the edge of the molded rubber head. I
slit the molded head, pull the lead out, strip and solder in a new lead and
terminal, stuff back down in the molded head and fill the seem with
brushable insulation from Eastwood (it comes in colors for you resto
freaks), and wrap the rubber head in wiring loom tape. I connect everything
up, black/red is going to STA, and replace battery. It fires right up.
Ammeter still does not work. Black (BAT?) cable is running hot, cannot hold
it for long, the closer to the alternator, the hotter it is. The black/red
lead to STA is running VERY hot. Everything otherwise seems to work okay.
The votage reg is cool, the battery is cool, etc. I run it around the block,
still working normal. Open the hood and the black/red lead (hooked to STA
now) has gotten so hot as to (still insulated) slice right out of the
wrapped wire loom and has split its insulation for about a 4-inch section. I
mutter expletives, disconnect the black/red and call it a night.
So, the questions:
1. I have no wiring schematic. What is the black/red lead and where should
it be connected?
2. What should be connected to the STA terminal? It has a centering ring
similar to the ones on BAT and FLD like a rubber plug once mounted to it,
but I do not have one (remember that a new terminal had been replaced on
black/red).
3. Re original loss of charge, has anyone ever had a solid state reg go bad?
I never have.
4. Any additional comments/insights from the info furnished?
5. side ? - is there an easy way to pop out the instrument cluster on a '69
to have a look at all the wiring connections without laying in the floor
with a flashlight and dentist's mirror?

I await the benefit of collective expertise while chanting the mantra "I
LOVE my truck. I LOVE my truck. I LOVE my tr..................."

Jim E.

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:42:43 -0500
From: frenz.6

osu.edu (Dale Frenz)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4

Hello everybody. I need a set of motor mounts to install a 460 in my '79
F-150 Supercab 4x4. It currently has a 351M. If you have the mounts or just
any advice in general, please let me know. Also, I assume the 4x4 mounts
are different than a 2 wheel drives'? Yes?

Thanks,
Dale Frenz

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:37:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Arlene Mason
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - HOW DO I POST?

Looks like this worked!!

- ---"Humanhunter (Blake Barr)" wrote:
>
> Geez this is anoying... I have no clue how to post
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:47:39 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 79 F-250 in Barrow, Alaska

>I usually read the digest but now I have a question. I am
>in the process of rebuilding my truck and am considering
>putting bigger wheels on so I can drive it down the coast
>on the beach, and launch our boat easier because our ramp
>is constantly getting destroyed. Can anyone offer
>suggestions about what I should be considering? Thanks, Dan

Dunno if anyone's actually answered this part yet, so I'll throw my 2c in...

First off I assume you mean bigger tires too, since the size of the wheel
isn't really going to affect performance all that much, but one thing
you'll need to remember is that changing the tire to a taller one will
lower your gear ratio, that is your final drive will lower (numerically).
So if you're running 3.73 gears, and go to a bigger tire, you could drop to
the equivalent of 3.55's, depending on how much bigger you go. Why is this
important ? Well it takes alot more umph to tow the boat when you're
fighting gears that aren't as much in your favor. If you have a 460 this
might not even be a consideration, but for my 360, I can tell its got the
extra weight there when accelerating from a stop. On the other had I get
pretty good mileage and have lower rev's at highway speeds....

Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:29:18 -0500 (EST)
From: FORD-TRUCK-70

webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Front end to low

Hi everyone . The 77 F250 4x4 i bought about a couple weeks ago is great
. Every thing works great . But i put a pipe bumper and a 8000# winch on
the front now it sits low in the front end . Can i build up the springs
? Will this cause it not to handle as well as before ? Any ideas ? Also
i am thinking of puting 35" tires on it. It has 33" tires on it now and
there seams to be lots of room under the fenders . Will this cause the
gear ratio to be to high to go PLAYING off road i was told it has 411
gears in it . 1 more question is there any way to tighting the 4x4
shifter in the floor? It rattles as you are driving along . With the
tires (RORRRRING) and the shifter (RATTLING) you cant here the radio
(PLAYING) . Thanks for any help .

Randy
1970 F100 2WD
1978 F150 2WD
1977 F250 4WD

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:49:17 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ragjoint

Bob,

Thanks for the safety tidbit. Makes sense, too. The collapsable or energy
absorbing steering column is by far the best safety feature ever installed.
I remember going through wrecking yards with my dad when the cars were late
40s and 50s models. Many a car had the steering wheel against the ceiling.
Scary, scary sight.

- -John

jlagrone

daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - backfiring

Dan writes: >> It backfires whenever the throttle is closed under load;
for example when downshifting or sometimes even between shifts when I come
off the gas..

Usually caused by vacuum leak OR leaky exhaust (up near the engine - either
manifolds of exhaust pipe) .. or sometimes by cross firing between plug
wires. (bad wires).

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:43:38 -0500
From: am14

daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - C6

Chris writes: >>All sounds good to me except that the C6 can be used with
the 351W.

Point was the 351W and the 335/385 series don't use a common bellhousing
bolt pattern, so he would have to change the transmission. He could still
use a c6, but not the same c6. C6 has intergal bellhousing, so must be
engine specific (

least bolt pattern specific).

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:44:32 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150

Thanks for your message at 08:59 AM 11/29/98 -0500, Lord_Xaenon. Your
message was:

>>The F100s and F150s overlapped. F100s were made as late as 1983
>>and F150s as early as 1973.
>
> It was once explained to me that the F100 was a half-ton truck,
> while the F150 was the "heavy" half ton, with slightly upgraded
> suspension, driveline, etc. According to the person that told
> me this, if you have an F100 with a six or small eight, you'd
> probably have a light-duty automatic (C4) in it, but with an
> F150, that'd likely be a C6 backing it up. The springs would
> be a bit heavier and/or it would have better towing capacity.
> It'd still have the half-ton axle (i.e.; the old 9-inch diff).
>
The F150 was rated at 5/8 ton in order to put it out of the reach of "smog
cops," whose authority at the time only extended to (and including) 1/2 ton
vehicles.

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:55:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1977 F150 power steering

I know I saw some discussion on this earlier, but I can't find it
now.. but I have a friend that wants to put power steering in his 1977
F150.. has anyone done this lately. He is getting tired of
man-handling the truck around town... how involved is the conversion?

Thanks in advance

Bill in Texas
1964 Shortbox 302/C4
1990 Harley Dresser

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:04:29 PST
From: "Jerald Merrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F-100 Steering wheels

I have a 71 Ford Ranger, But I don't have the mesurements, but I know
Ford had two different size wheels. One for the plane jane and one for
a packaged deals.

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:22:29 -0700
From: Jason & Vedra Cajune
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Obsolete part needed!

Help! I was changing the front shocks on my 76 F150 4wd and broke the upper mounting stud. It's a 1"
dia. bolt with a 1" threaded sleeve into which a smaller bolt goes which holds on the shock. I'm
guessing unless someone has changed one they won't recognize it from my description but what the hell.
I'm stuck without it and the Ford parts department said it was discontinued in 96. I'm trying the junk
yards but I had to heat mine with a torch and turn it with a 1 1/8" socket and breaker bar to move it
enough to get a sawzall blade in there. I guess because the nut sits on top of the spring pylon it
just sits in water and mud all the time- it was frozen in place and time! The Ford part # is
C6TZ-18033-A Busted in Montana

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:28:02 EST
From: CCSSportz

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4

In a message dated 11/30/98 8:28:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, frenz.6

osu.edu
writes:

F-150 Supercab 4x4. It currently has a 351M. If you have the mounts or just
any advice in general, please let me know. Also, I assume the 4x4 mounts
are different than a 2 wheel drives'? Yes? >>

Hi ---
I saw this post and thought I would ask for some advice too. I want to do
this swap eventually in also a '79 F-150 4x4 not supercab, and it also has a
351M as of now.
What are some other mods that will have to be made to make it successful? I've
been told that a 460 was a factory option in that truck (I've read it too, so
I'm believing it).......Thus making the 460 basically just a bolt
in...............with the change of the mounts.
Will my tranny from the 351 be stout enough to deal with the 460? All I know
is that it is a 4 speed standard tranny. I'm runnin #'s this afternoon to get
it's exact model. I have a Ford 9" rearend, and a Dana 44 front axle. I was
told they are geared 3.50 or 3.50, 3.55 front to back.
I don't know what that really means so if someone can enlighten me , I'd
appreciate it.
Well, I am going to finish the rest o mt mail, then go number hunting.

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:36:14 EST
From: CCSSportz

aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE offroad - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

In a message dated 11/30/98 8:50:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rokkinhorse

webtv.net writes:

Shawn, for 50 or 75 bucks apiece,you oughtta be able to find some good
used (if not brand new) tires that will correctly fit your truck >>

I would like you to tell me where I can find a set of 36" tires to fit on my
15" rims for that price................I've looked everywhere and have
exhausted every resource I have. Now maybe you guys can give me some
leads...........That's the best deal I've found. 50-75 bucks on a 36" Military
take off Hummer Tire with at least 50% tread or better left. Depends on how
much my buddy gets them for........cost to me is 50-75 bucks each, But that
entails that I need to get 16.5" rims to fit these tires. that 50-75 dollar
price includes mount and balance also..

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:21:29 -0500
From: am14

daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - slipping C6

Mike Masse writes: >>My C6 seems to be acting up and I have some questions
I'm hoping someone can answer. While driving in the city I don't really
notice any problems with it, but I've been getting a "feeling" lately like
it's slipping. The last two times I've taken it on the interstate for at
least a 1/2 hour and then came to a stop somewhere, I'll get some pretty
nasty surging/slipping while trying to accelerate again. Does this sound
like clutches wearing out? What are the symptoms of a torque converter
wearing/worn out? It has no problem upshifting or downshifting. It seems
to me that stop and go city driving would be harder on the tranny then
highway driving, but both times it happens right away after being on the
highway. Any C6 Guru's out there got any clues?

I would think slipping tranny would be worse in city driving also. Are you
sure you aren't getting a lean condition after the engine gets fully warmed
up???? Surging/missing???? If you truly are having slippage at Highway
speeds, then you are in for a rebuild I'm afraid. The C6 is tough. As
tough as any, but it will not stand slipping clutches very long. It will
give up the "Ghost", so to speak and die.

Check your fluid for coloration and smell. If it smells like a burned out
electric motor or transformer, then you have a serious problem. The fluid
will also usually be black (or at least very dark) when this happens also.
If the fluid smells OK and not discolored, then most likely your problem is
elsewhere.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:25:59 -0800
From: sdelanty

sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ack! Electrical Problem

At 04:48 AM 11/30/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Well, I have run into an electrical problem with mine and could use some
>assistance:
>
>Model - '69 F-100, 360, AT, 'orange' alternator?, solid-state replacement

> I take the alternator to the parts store, and it checks okay, 14.5 - 15
>volts 150 amps at no load. During the check, I note that the BAT and FLD
>terminals are used, and so is the STA. I comment that my third lead goes to
>GRD, not STA. The discussion ensues that the alternator will ground via its
>mount, that usually a STA lead is used.

I believe the 3rd wire should go to the stator. The other end connects
to the "S" terminal on the regulator.
The alternator is grounded thru the brackets to the block, and no other
ground wire is used.

>I question would the STA lead be
>used to drive the ammeter as mine has never worked, and the attendant says
>indeed it normally does.

No. The "attendant" is wrong, it doesn't goto the ammeter.
The ammeters on these trucks never work, there's been several
discussions over the last couple years about why (ammeter shunt value
is too low) and at least a couple list members have fixed theirs.
* Hey JERRY! It's time for a tech article! (-: *

>I think I am onto something. I call a couple of
>folks, including one FTE breatheren who checks wiring diagram and (Ford)
>manuals and verifies that it seems the third (black/red) lead should go to
>STA.

Yep. It should goto the stator.
There's a schematic for the Ford charging system here:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/truck/fordchrg.jpg

The skizmatic is for a '67 Galaxie with mechanical regulator, so the
wiring colors are probably different, but it'll give you an idea of
how things are hooked up. The schematic is the same for solid-state
regulators as for mechanical...

> So, the questions:
>1. I have no wiring schematic. What is the black/red lead and where should
>it be connected?

I would expect it to connect to the STA terminal.
Do you have an ohmeter? If so, then disconnect the wiring harness plug
from the voltage regulator and connect one lead of the ohmeter to the
"S" terminal in the plug. Connect the other ohmeter lead to the Black/red
lead at the alternator end. (wire should be disconnected from alt)
The meter should read approx 0 ohms. If so, then tht verifies that thats
the "stator" wire. Now disconnect the ohmeter lead from the regulator
connector plug and connect it to a good engine ground. leave the other
ohmeter lead on the blk/red wire. It should read infinite resistance.
(that verifies that the wire isn't grounded somewhere)
If you get those resistances in those two tests, then it should be O.K.
to connect the blk/red wire to the STA terminal on the alternator.
If you get different resistances, then post them here and we'll try
and figure out what's up...
Maybe your harness has a short to ground somewhere?

>2. What should be connected to the STA terminal? It has a centering ring
>similar to the ones on BAT and FLD like a rubber plug once mounted to it,
>but I do not have one (remember that a new terminal had been replaced on
>black/red).

Usually, the STA terminal on the alt connects to the "S" terminal on
the regulator, and nowhere else.

>3. Re original loss of charge, has anyone ever had a solid state reg go bad?
>I never have.

Yes. I've replaced bad ones. They're pretty reliable, but failures do
happen.

>4. Any additional comments/insights from the info furnished?

Do the ohmeter check and see what you get. If you don't own a volt/ohmeter,
go buy one. You can get cheap, easy to use and read digital meters now
for under $20. Everyone who works on their own vehicles should have
one in their tool box...

>5. side ? - is there an easy way to pop out the instrument cluster on a '69
>to have a look at all the wiring connections without laying in the floor
>with a flashlight and dentist's mirror?

Yep. take out the phillips screws around the edge of the cluster, reach
around under the dash and unscrew the speedo cable from the back of the
cluster, and disconenct the electrical plug to the cluster.
The cluster should now fall out in your lap...

>I await the benefit of collective expertise while chanting the mantra "I
>LOVE my truck. I LOVE my truck. I LOVE my tr..................."

HeeHee... but you'd love it more if it worked, wouldn't you? (-:

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:59:26 -0600
From: juredd - Justin Reddell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!

I am new at this so please forgive me if I screw this question up. I have recently purchased what I thought was a 390 HP motor. All I can say is I need some help here. I have taken a number (2TA) off of the crank and given it to a friend of mine and in his parts book it showed up to be a crank for a 360 motor. Can anyone out there tell me if this is so or even if you can tell anything about this motor from the crank. What makes the difference between a 360 or 390. Heads, the crank the bore size. What? I have paid way to much money for this motor to find out that it is a 360 instead of a 390 HP. I just need to find some way to tell if this motor is truly a 390 with out destroying it. I also have a number off the block. It came of the LH side behind the dip stick.

Thank,
Justin
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:06:23 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Timing chain alternative

>From: "Jeff Hannon"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Timing chain alternative
>
>The '76 and '79 300 6cyl blocks I have are both
>directly geared cams - - no timing chain. There
>are only two gears, crank and cam. The V8
>

Yo Jeff:

I am not familiar w/ the I6 engines, so your info about the timing gears is
news to me. Seems like I saw inside a tractor engine years ago (don't even
remember what kind) and it had a direct crank/cam gear drive. You are
correct in your observation about the idler gears for the V8 timing sets,
their purpose is to maintain the correct rotation of the camshaft.

>I'm curious about your "Gear drive systems
> consume more engine power" comment. It
>seems that the chain would be less efficient
>at transferring energy than a direct gear
>setup. Am I backwards here?

I'm afraid so. In general, gears can transfer a lot more force (torque)
than chains, which is why nobody has built a chain drive truck since the
1930s, but the chain is more efficient (i.e., consumes less of the power
being transmitted with its own internal friction). Even more efficient
than chains are belts, which is why most engines use either a chain or belt
for crank/cam timing (as well as for driving accessories). Along w/ gear
drives in the new Summit/Jegs catalogs are also the latest and zootiest
"belt drive" timing sets for V8s, but now you're talking 10 times the cost
of a decent roller chain system!

Remember, the crankshaft shouldn't be transmitting very much power to the
valve train, so a decent chain or belt should be adequate for that
application. The downside of both (chains and belts) is how they behave
when they wear out. Chains elongate when the link pins wear and belts
stretch, and both of them can jump teeth on the sprockets/pulleys under the
right conditions. If you could find a gear drive system that was not
annoyingly noisy, had long-term reliability (have to be a lot better than a
chain system), and didn't cost 4 times as much as a decent chain system, it
might be worth the trade-off of some more power consumption.

>As far as reliability and wear: Both engines
>have over 150K miles on them with no
>appreciable wear problems on these
>gears.

I'd still like to see some reliability info on the aftermarket gear drive
systems.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 9:39:58 -0900
From: "Daniel Bevington"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - f250 in Barrow

I don't know about the other Alaskan brothers in Ford, but
the sun set two weeks ago and will return in a month and a
half. Dan
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:28:34 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE offroad - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

I would be intersted in a set of these tires can you get me the name and number or have him email me at jpliss

airolite.com
Thanks

- -----Original Message-----
From: CCSSportz

aol.com [SMTP:CCSSportz

aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:36 AM
To: offroad-list

ford-trucks.com
Cc: perf-list

ford-trucks.com; 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE offroad - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

In a message dated 11/30/98 8:50:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rokkinhorse

webtv.net writes:

Shawn, for 50 or 75 bucks apiece,you oughtta be able to find some good
used (if not brand new) tires that will correctly fit your truck >>

I would like you to tell me where I can find a set of 36" tires to fit on my
15" rims for that price................I've looked everywhere and have
exhausted every resource I have. Now maybe you guys can give me some
leads...........That's the best deal I've found. 50-75 bucks on a 36" Military
take off Hummer Tire with at least 50% tread or better left. Depends on how
much my buddy gets them for........cost to me is 50-75 bucks each, But that
entails that I need to get 16.5" rims to fit these tires. that 50-75 dollar
price includes mount and balance also..

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:26:28 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - slipping C6

If the fluid smells and looks ok a filter change may be in order. If dirt
or other debris is in the filter this will also give you the same syptoms.

- -----Original Message-----
From: am14

daimlerchrysler.com [SMTP:am14

daimlerchrysler.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 9:21 AM
To: 61-79-list

Ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - slipping C6

Mike Masse writes: >>My C6 seems to be acting up and I have some questions
I'm hoping someone can answer. While driving in the city I don't really
notice any problems with it, but I've been getting a "feeling" lately like
it's slipping. The last two times I've taken it on the interstate for at
least a 1/2 hour and then came to a stop somewhere, I'll get some pretty
nasty surging/slipping while trying to accelerate again. Does this sound
like clutches wearing out? What are the symptoms of a torque converter
wearing/worn out? It has no problem upshifting or downshifting. It seems
to me that stop and go city driving would be harder on the tranny then
highway driving, but both times it happens right away after being on the
highway. Any C6 Guru's out there got any clues?

I would think slipping tranny would be worse in city driving also. Are you
sure you aren't getting a lean condition after the engine gets fully warmed
up???? Surging/missing???? If you truly are having slippage at Highway
speeds, then you are in for a rebuild I'm afraid. The C6 is tough. As
tough as any, but it will not stand slipping clutches very long. It will
give up the "Ghost", so to speak and die.

Check your fluid for coloration and smell. If it smells like a burned out
electric motor or transformer, then you have a serious problem. The fluid
will also usually be black (or at least very dark) when this happens also.
If the fluid smells OK and not discolored, then most likely your problem is
elsewhere.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:23:58 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!

The 332 to 428 ford engine is fords FE series engines. The block and the
heads along with valve train were essentially the same in all these motors
about the only thing that changes are the cranks and pistons I am not sure
what the exact numbers are but you might want to try ford to see if they
have any answers on the crank number also there is a FE web site you might
want to give them an email at that site it is
They also have other info on FE hardware. Might help you.

- -----Original Message-----
From: juredd - Justin Reddell [SMTP:juredd

acxiom.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 9:59 AM
To: 'Ford List'
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - 360-390 help Please!

I am new at this so please forgive me if I screw this question up. I have
recently purchased what I thought was a 390 HP motor. All I can say is I
need some help here. I have taken a number (2TA) off of the crank and
given it to a friend of mine and in his parts book it showed up to be a
crank for a 360 motor. Can anyone out there tell me if this is so or even
if you can tell anything about this motor from the crank. What makes the
difference between a 360 or 390. Heads, the crank the bore size. What? I
have paid way to much money for this motor to find out that it is a 360
instead of a 390 HP. I just need to find some way to tell if this motor is
truly a 390 with out destroying it. I also have a number off the block.
It came of the LH side behind the dip stick.

Thank,
Justin
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Attachment Converted: "C:\Internet\DOWNLOAD\Accelerated Motion Ford FE Engine Parts1.url"

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:33:37 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150 4x4

The 4 speed tranny if it is manual should be a new process 435 and yes it
will take the power without a problem. No it will not just bolt up you will
have to get a new bell housing for the 460. I do not believe ford has these
any more and so are far and few between and so are also expensive. Motor
Mounts are I believe still made by ford so those will not be hard to get.
Botl right to the frame. You will also have to make some clutch mods I am
going to a hydraulic setup and will try to use some newer style mustang
clutch parts but have not gotten to it yet.

- -----Original Message-----
From: CCSSportz

aol.com [SMTP:CCSSportz

aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:28 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Cc: perf-list

ford-trucks.com; offroad-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) Re: FTE 61-79 - WANTED: 460 Mounts for '79 F 150
4x4

In a message dated 11/30/98 8:28:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
frenz.6

osu.edu
writes:

F-150 Supercab 4x4. It currently has a 351M. If you have the mounts or
just
any advice in general, please let me know. Also, I assume the 4x4 mounts
are different than a 2 wheel drives'? Yes? >>

Hi ---
I saw this post and thought I would ask for some advice too. I want to
do
this swap eventually in also a '79 F-150 4x4 not supercab, and it also has
a
351M as of now.
What are some other mods that will have to be made to make it successful?
I've
been told that a 460 was a factory option in that truck (I've read it too,
so
I'm believing it).......Thus making the 460 basically just a bolt
in...............with the change of the mounts.
Will my tranny from the 351 be stout enough to deal with the 460? All I
know
is that it is a 4 speed standard tranny. I'm runnin #'s this afternoon to
get
it's exact model. I have a Ford 9" rearend, and a Dana 44 front axle. I was
told they are geared 3.50 or 3.50, 3.55 front to back.
I don't know what that really means so if someone can enlighten me , I'd
appreciate it.
Well, I am going to finish the rest o mt mail, then go number hunting.

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:38:07 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Obsolete part needed!

Try this guy he is pretty good sometimes expensive but usually knows where to get the part. Being small could probably fedex it to you.
West's truck parts 740.585-2374

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason & Vedra Cajune [SMTP:boats

ycsi.net]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:22 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Obsolete part needed!

Help! I was changing the front shocks on my 76 F150 4wd and broke the upper mounting stud. It's a 1"
dia. bolt with a 1" threaded sleeve into which a smaller bolt goes which holds on the shock. I'm
guessing unless someone has changed one they won't recognize it from my description but what the hell.
I'm stuck without it and the Ford parts department said it was discontinued in 96. I'm trying the junk
yards but I had to heat mine with a torch and turn it with a 1 1/8" socket and breaker bar to move it
enough to get a sawzall blade in there. I guess because the nut sits on top of the spring pylon it
just sits in water and mud all the time- it was frozen in place and time! The Ford part # is
C6TZ-18033-A Busted in Montana

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:42:54 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Rag joint replacement

It is not extremely hard only four bolts and a new rag joint with 4 new
bolts. I have had to cut these bolts though depending on how rusted they
are. How much for the MB with the oil leak may be interested in it?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Parsons, Raymond [SMTP:parsonsr

denver-rmn.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 7:13 AM
To: '61-79-list

ford-trucks.com'
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Rag joint replacement

Hey Guys:
How hard is it to replace the rag joint on a 67 F250? Mine is in pretty
bad
shape and I need to be able to use the truck as a daily driver as my car
(80
MB 300SD, 303k mi) just developed a huge oil leak and I am afraid that the
repair costs are going to exceed the value of the car.
I love my truck, but the 8-9 mpg make it expensive to drive as I commute 50
mi per day.
Thanks,
Ray
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:50:14 -0800
From: "Southerland, Rich"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Steering Stabilizer on Van

Added one (Monroe) to my dad's '86 E350. He said it's the best $50 he's
spent. Dramatically reduced wandering and eliminated it's desire to follow
grooves in the road. It mounted like you are suggesting. It utilized holes
that were already there and required no drilling. Be careful of
interference between the shock and the steering linkage at full lock.
Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Al Evitts
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 2:09 PM
> To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Steering Stabilizer on Van
>
> Vanners: Has anybody used a Steering Stabilizer on a van? I have a
> 78 Econoline and a spare stabilizer and attaching equipment I wpild like
> to use. What about mounting one end to the pass. side frame rail and
> the otherto the tierod. Looks similiar to and early bronco set up.
> What say you all or ya'all depending on where you live. TIA
>
> Al
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:47:44 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Front end to low

What you will need to do is an upgrade on the fron springs. There are
simple add a leaf kits that will help and are fairley inexpensive and
should keep a fairly good ride. Check the tag on the front and rear diffs
it should tell you the gear ratio of each diff assuming nobody has replaced
it. I believe ford used 4.10 and 4.56 as standard ratios on the 44 and 60
diffs.

- -----Original Message-----
From: RANDY D [SMTP:FORD-TRUCK-70

webtv.net]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 6:29 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Front end to low

Hi everyone . The 77 F250 4x4 i bought about a couple weeks ago is great
. Every thing works great . But i put a pipe bumper and a 8000# winch on
the front now it sits low in the front end . Can i build up the springs
? Will this cause it not to handle as well as before ? Any ideas ? Also
i am thinking of puting 35" tires on it. It has 33" tires on it now and
there seams to be lots of room under the fenders . Will this cause the
gear ratio to be to high to go PLAYING off road i was told it has 411
gears in it . 1 more question is there any way to tighting the 4x4
shifter in the floor? It rattles as you are driving along . With the
tires (RORRRRING) and the shifter (RATTLING) you cant here the radio
(PLAYING) . Thanks for any help .

Randy
1970 F100 2WD
1978 F150 2WD
1977 F250 4WD

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:51:56 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel alignment

I have never seen a rebuild kit for a steering box. Sorry couldnt be of more help.

- -----Original Message-----
From: David Wadson [SMTP:wadsond

air.on.ca]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 2:21 AM
To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel alignment

Well, after consulting with you guys last time, I replaced the old
thermostat with a new Motorcraft one. When tested in the pan of hot water
it worked fine but the Ford one looked cooler so I put it in anyways. I got
very little antifreeze on the driveway and other than a tight squeeze
getting one bolt out of the thermostat housing, it was pretty - I love
working on a clean, oil/dirt/sludge-free engine! However I still have no
interior heat...thankfully we are having a major mild spell I'm not
freezing my butt off while I try to figure it out!

I had a loose wheel bearing on front passenger side pointed out to me when
I the truck in for an alignment. Unfortunately, that did not stop my
vibration problem as I had hoped it would. I'll continuing looking towards
the driveshaft or diff.

The quick wheel alignment has turned into a typical Old Ford Truck Project
as upon inspection my truck needs new tie rods and a new steering box. The
colder weather had put me into the "how much is it gonna cost if you guys
do all the work" attitude but $450 parts and labour kicked me into the
"order the parts and I'll put them on" mood. The only difficult part will
be the steering box - apparently there is excess play in the shaft that
comes out and hooks up to the pitman arm. The mechanic was suggesting I
replace it with another one and I'm pretty sure there's another one with
power steering in one of our parts vehicles. I'll be pretty pissed if I
have to go to the scrap yard for one and find out the only is in the truck
I just scrapped!

Anyways, can you buy rebuild kits for steering boxes and if so, how hard is
it to do?

David Wadson - wadsond

air.on.ca
"PS2" - 78 F100 w/ 302 & C4

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:53:56 -0500
From: "Timothy R. Anderson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - C6 question

Mike wrote: My C6 seems to be acting up....

Mike,
I remember seeing this same problem a number of times
back when I was a working auto mechanic. In all those
cases, the fluid level was found to be too high. Worked
ok at lower speeds but would foam up after extened =

high speed driving. Then the air in the fluid would
compress instead of applying full force to the pistons &
clutches. Wouldn't pump well either. This could be your
problem too, especially if you have to occasionally add
fluid to compensate for leaks and aren't checking levels
too often.

Tim in Anchorage
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:02:11 -0800
From: "Southerland, Rich"
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel align ment

Yes, kits are available. I work part time in an auto parts store and can
get you specifics if someone else doesn't come up with it. I can find out
tonight and let you know tomorrow. Email me off the list and I'll see what
I can do...
Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Pliss
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 2:52 PM
> To: '61-79-list

ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel
> alignment
>
> I have never seen a rebuild kit for a steering box. Sorry couldnt be of
> more help.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Wadson [SMTP:wadsond

air.on.ca]
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 2:21 AM
> To: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com
> Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Cooling, vibration and wheel
> alignment
>
> Well, after consulting with you guys last time, I replaced the old
> thermostat with a new Motorcraft one. When tested in the pan of hot water
> it worked fine but the Ford one looked cooler so I put it in anyways. I
> got
> very little antifreeze on the driveway and other than a tight squeeze
> getting one bolt out of the thermostat housing, it was pretty - I love
> working on a clean, oil/dirt/sludge-free engine! However I still have no
> interior heat...thankfully we are having a major mild spell I'm not
> freezing my butt off while I try to figure it out!
>
> I had a loose wheel bearing on front passenger side pointed out to me when
> I the truck in for an alignment. Unfortunately, that did not stop my
> vibration problem as I had hoped it would. I'll continuing looking towards
> the driveshaft or diff.
>
> The quick wheel alignment has turned into a typical Old Ford Truck Project
> as upon inspection my truck needs new tie rods and a new steering box. The
> colder weather had put me into the "how much is it gonna cost if you guys
> do all the work" attitude but $450 parts and labour kicked me into the
> "order the parts and I'll put them on" mood. The only difficult part will
> be the steering box - apparently there is excess play in the shaft that
> comes out and hooks up to the pitman arm. The mechanic was suggesting I
> replace it with another one and I'm pretty sure there's another one with
> power steering in one of our parts vehicles. I'll be pretty pissed if I
> have to go to the scrap yard for one and find out the only is in the truck
> I just scrapped!
>
> Anyways, can you buy rebuild kits for steering boxes and if so, how hard
> is
> it to do?
>
>
> David Wadson - wadsond

air.on.ca
> "PS2" - 78 F100 w/ 302 & C4
>
>
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>
>
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:58:13 -0800
From: Jim Pliss
Subject: RE: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

I would also like a set of these tires. Please let me know the name and number or will you have him email me at jpliss

airolite.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: CCSSportz

aol.com [SMTP:CCSSportz

aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 6:28 PM
To: List Member
Cc: 61-79-list

ford-trucks.com; offroad-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: (Archive Copy) FTE 61-79 - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

In a message dated 11/29/98 8:22:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, kevkem

epix.net
writes:

something like 3.5front, and 3.55 rear or something like that. anyway...
>>

Are these good gears to have? What's the worst, what's the best? My guess is
they are factory from '79 (Never been changed), should I change or upgrade
them? Keep in mind I'm still working on the truck, and have yet to drive it
more than up a trailer, down a trailer, and about 20 feet to park it ---- All
with no steering at all. So I don't know what else will need to be done until
I can drive it, and "feel" what else I need to fix.

What's the deal with Detroit Lockers? I'm new to the 4x4 scene, and new to
trucks, or vehicles for that matter even - I know alot of the basics, and some
of the complicated stuff.
I'm 16, and have worked on my Cadilllac for 2 years, my dad's mercury, and am
learning ford trucks as I work on mine. I was reading a magazine and it was
talking about Detroit lockers......
What are they? What do they do? About how much do they cost? And can I put one
in myself? Like I said, other than knowing it is a rearend component, I don't
know much.

And thanks again for all of those who responded about my tire/4x4 questions. I
am just going to get a new set of rubber. I found a friend of mine who can get
me some military take off 36" Hummer tires........ from between 50-75 bucks
apiece mounted and balanced -- They all have over 50% tread left, or close to
100% but plugged....... Which leads me to beg you guys to help me find a set
of 16.5" rims to put these tires on. I have 15's and they wont cut it
obviously. So any links to rims or if you have an old set laying around please
contact me ASAP. Thanks alot once again - you guys on this list have saved me
from a complete nervous breakdown, and a coronary at 16 years old.

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:21:20 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - painting yourself

Shawn,

What color are you going to paint yourself?

Just joking. I couldn't resist. Taking hits for putting your foot in your
mouth are part of list life. My shoes are covered with teeth marks. Welcome
aboard.

I may be off base here, but I think you are going to have a real tough time
finding 16.5 rims to fit your F150. Most 16.5's that I have run across are
8 lug. Do you have 5 or 6 lug? Split rims are easy to spot. Just look
around the wheel where it meets the tire. A split rim will have a small gap
instead of being solid all of the way around. If you do have split rims,
get rid of them. When you get new wheels, avoid split rims no matter how
good a deal they are. Split rims will kill you. Don't mess with them at all.

- -John

jlagrone

ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!

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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:34:04 -0600
From: juredd - Justin Reddell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 360-390

I was told that the only way to tell the difference between a 390 and a 360 is the length of the push rods and the crank. If I get the casting # off the push rods this should tell me if I have a 390 or 360. Is this right? Even if the casting # off of the crank shows to be for a 360 (which it does) it could have been destroked to work in a 390. Is this correct? Which means that the push rods are the only thing left to tell the difference. Correct?

Thanks,
Justin
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:48:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Ack! Electrical Problem

Jim wrote:
> Well, I have run into an electrical problem with mine and could use some
> assistance:
>
> Model - '69 F-100, 360, AT, 'orange' alternator?, solid-state replacement
> regulator (less than 6 mos old), wiring stock (some repair splices) except
>
> Background - Sat. PM the truck acted as if battery was low and would not

[ Problems snipped to save space, dead battery, wierd hookup to alternator ]

> I take the alternator to the parts store, and it checks okay,
> 14.5 - 15 volts 150 amps at no load.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
150 amps should be at full field, heavily loaded conditions. The actual
voltage developed is a function of load resistance.

> So, the questions:
> 1. I have no wiring schematic. What is the black/red lead and where should
> it be connected?

I don't have a real schematic either, but I used one that looks just
like Steve's to troubleshoot my alternator a few years back:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/truck/fordchrg.jpg

> 2. What should be connected to the STA terminal? It has a centering ring
> similar to the ones on BAT and FLD like a rubber plug once mounted to it,
> but I do not have one (remember that a new terminal had been replaced on
> black/red).

The stator terminal on the alternator provides feedback to the voltage
regulator that the alternator has 'started'. Remember, that alternators
do not have any residual magnetism to start generating current with.
Looking at the schematic, the "I" (Ignition) terminal provides close
to full field voltage through the charge light (or, in our case, probably
a low resistance connection only) when the key is turned on. The charge
indicator is lit (if present), if burned out the 15 ohm resistor
provides this current path. Once the engine is started, and the
alternator is providing current, the voltage present at the stator
terminal will cause a current to flow through field relay, thus shorting
the "I" path out, turning off the light. At this point, the sensed
battery voltage at the "A+" terminal is then applied through a voltage
divider to the voltage regulator relay. The voltage regulator relay
"Chops" the voltage supplied to the field terminal, by switching it
between the full battery voltage and ground. The longer the relay
connects the field to the battery, the more current is produced
by the alternator.

> 3. Re original loss of charge, has anyone ever had a solid state reg go bad?
> I never have.

Sure, transisors and diodes in an engine compartment can fail. High
temperatures, extreme temp changes, and lots of vibration will kill
any electronics, eventually.

> 4. Any additional comments/insights from the info furnished?

I think you have at least a couple of problems:

1) There shouldn't be any appreciable current flow from the Stator....

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