61-79-list-digest Saturday, November 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 536



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Thanks - plus more inocuous ?'s
FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals
FTE 61-79 - 79 F250 in Barrow
FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351Mmers out there...........all you C's andW's can look too....... :o)
FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150
Re: FTE 61-79 - 79 F250 in Barrow
FTE 61-79 - Steering Stabilizer on Van
FTE 61-79 - 302 starter
FTE 61-79 - 54 f-250 flatbed
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Chat page
FTE 61-79 - instrument cluster
FTE 61-79 - Re: Popping Noise During Deceleration
FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 Econoline owners
FTE 61-79 - Diesel Air Cleaner
FTE 61-79 - My Ford is back! (But I have a question)

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:25:53 -0600
From: "J Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Thanks - plus more inocuous ?'s

The cargo light switch - Thanks for all the responses! Now that I know where
it goes, it needs a hole to go in, but that I think I can handle, tho it
will wait till paint time.

I have some more odd-ball curiosities tho;

1. a couple of us have thrown out the question of any experience around for
putting a tilt column into a 67-72, but the answer is apparently 'No." I
want to start looking at this question, so, can anyone tell me what the
first model year was that the F-series had tilt wheel available; was it only
on certain models; and was (or when was it that) the dimmer switch was
changed to a stalk switch on the column?

2. With all the various bandying about automatic transmissions (no pun
intended) which models were 4-speed (OD)? I have it in my head that the AOD
and E4OD were. and now for the 64K question - has anyone ever been demented
enough to do, or to research, a route to fitting a later OD automatic to an
FE engine?

Jim E.



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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:16:07 -0500
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals


Does anyone know of a place I could get a good service manual for
this truck? I bought a Haynes but it's almost useless. I tried
to find a Chiltons but nobody seems to have them any more



Hi Mark.

Had the same problem finding manuals for my 79 Bronco. Here are a few of
the sources I have found which may have what you need.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://pages.ebay.com/aw/search.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.osborn-reproduction.com/

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.vintage-books.com/

An other source is - "Bob Johnson's Auto Literature, in MA.
1 508 872 9173


Try some of these. I hope they help.

Later,

Paul



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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 5:44:04 -0900
From: "Daniel Bevington"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 79 F250 in Barrow

It isn't too cold, 0-15 below this time of the year. I
don't know if there are other list subscribers in Alaska.
Probably. Thanks, Dan


- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:26:53 -0800
From: "Sam Weatherby"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 79 F-250 in Barrow, Alaska

Barrow...
Cool. Well actually cold huh? Cold I guess.
So how many Alaskan's are ther on this list?
- -srw

Sam Weatherby SWeatherby uswest.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://insert.com/sammy ICQ # 18354914
'70 Mustang Grabber Sportsroof
'93 F-150 XLT Lightning
'98 FXD Super Glide
- - -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Bevington
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 9:24 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 79 F-250 in Barrow, Alaska


>I usually read the digest but now I have a question. I am
>in the process of rebuilding my truck and am considering
>putting bigger wheels on so I can drive it down the coast
>on the beach, and launch our boat easier because our ramp
>is constantly getting destroyed. Can anyone offer
>suggestions about what I should be considering? Thanks, Dan
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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- ------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:36:15 +0100
From: "Bill Brox"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150

What's the difference between a F100 and a F150 pickup truck ?

Please, enlighten me.


Bill Brox





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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:25:09 -0700
From: Joe Greenwood
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150

I have been told that the 100 is a 1/2 ton and the 150 is a heavy half.
Hope this helps

- --joe

Bill Brox wrote:

> What's the difference between a F100 and a F150 pickup truck ?
>
> Please, enlighten me.
>
> Bill Brox
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:43:51 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351Mmers out there...........all you C's andW's can look too....... :o)

You might want to check out the Sept issue of Hot Rod magazine. They took a
400 and rebuilt it for less than $2K. They ended up with over 380 hp and
468 lb-ft of torque. You're correct about how they did it, cam & comp.
ratio.

- ----------
> From: Lord_Xaenon
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351Mmers out there...........all you C's andW's
can look too....... :o)
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 10:14 AM
>
> Bottom line: if your truck is equipped with a 351M/400, you could hop it
up
> a little
> bit with parts available from Edelbrock. They make an intake designed
> specifically
> for the original 2-bbl heads but it will accept a 4-bbl squarebore
> carburetor. It'll
> give you about a 5,000 rpm rev with their Performer cam. With a 400,
that's
> worth
> about 275-300 horsepower, more if you can get the compression up a bit.
> Look for
> about 225-250 out of a 351M. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but
> 351M/400's
> strong suit is low-rpm torque, not high-rpm horsepower.
>

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:53:42 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there

Shawn.

As Mark stated:
- ->Bottom line: if your truck is equipped with a 351M/400, you could hop it
up
- ->a little bit with parts available from Edelbrock.
SNIP
- ->With a 400, that's worth about 275-300 horsepower, more if you can get the
- ->compression up a bit. Look for about 225-250 out of a 351M. I know that
doesn't
- ->sound like a lot, but 351M/400's strong suit is low-rpm torque, not
high-rpm
- -> horsepower.
SNIP
- ->The biggest flaw in the 351M/400 is its large main bearings, they will
caust
- ->problems with high rpms unless you do some work to it.
SNIP
- ->If you are serious about beefing up the powertrain in your truck, I would
- ->recommend swapping in a 429 or 460, or at least swapping to a 351W. All
three of
- ->these engines have better performance-parts availability.
- ->I hope this information helps.

I don't disagree with anything said here.. but I'll add my opinion :~)
Mark is correct in his power predictions for both the 400 and 351M Engines
with bolt on parts. But the mention of a set of headers and 2.5" dia. dual
exhaust is lacking. Be sure to build it with a balance tube. Both of these
engines are corked up in this area as delivered from the factory and will
respond to the exhaust changes. I have seen increases of 25HP over what Mark
described. If you get 250 HP out of the 351M you are virtually 100HP above
what the factory made.
You may want to consider an Ignition system upgrade. Minimally you should
change the coil if yours is the factory original.
Don't sweat the oiling issue. Having dealt with these engines for a while
now unless you are shifting at 6000RPM you will not have a problem if the
system is in good shape. The big issue with these engines and oil; is the
cleanliness of the oil. Do not let dirt get inside the engine, of course
that goes with out saying for any engine. These engines in particular due to
the design of the oil pump will not tolerate it. So make your practice such
that you change the oil and filter at no more then 2000 Mi. intervals. And
don't forget the air filter.
Engine swaps...
No ladies and gents I'll not start that engine wars thing again.

I guess that I'm gonna sound like somebody's Dad here.
This is your first fourby. Don't even think about swapping engines until you
have a bunch more experience. First thing is you may find out that you don't
(God forbid) like your truck, or that you want a pickemup instead. Second
thing is you can create something that is sooo cool that big brother is
afraid of it and so won't let you license it! Now that would be a
bummer!BTDT! Last thing is that you more likely end up spending money that
you don't need to spend due to inexperience. This is not the same as
spending money that you want to spend on your truck... I think everyone here
is guilty of that!)
Before you start down this path think it through.
The 429/460 are great power makers. Building them will cost you slightly
more then building the 400 parts and labor wise; and make more power. It is
everything else that you need to have a happy truck with a new heart that
adds up. Motor Mounts, Radiator, Headers, Flywheel, Brackets if you don't
get them on the engine. Just be aware of this stuff before you start.

Chris
79 Bronco


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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:13:27 -0600
From: "Larry Brown"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals

Another very good source for outdated manuals is:
Faxon Auto Literature
800-458-2734
They do not have a web page that I know of but they have been able to get me
almost any factory manual and wiring diagram I wanted. Much of what they
stock is NOS (new old stock) at very good prices.
Larry

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mr. Paul R. Boudreault
To: 'Ford CHAT'
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 7:25 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals


>
>Does anyone know of a place I could get a good service manual for
> this truck? I bought a Haynes but it's almost useless. I tried
> to find a Chiltons but nobody seems to have them any more
>
>
>
>Hi Mark.
>
>Had the same problem finding manuals for my 79 Bronco. Here are a few of
>the sources I have found which may have what you need.
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://pages.ebay.com/aw/search.html
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.osborn-reproduction.com/
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.vintage-books.com/
>
>An other source is - "Bob Johnson's Auto Literature, in MA.
>1 508 872 9173
>
>
>Try some of these. I hope they help.
>
>Later,
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:18:36 -0600
From: "Larry Brown"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150

A little more specific is that with the advent of requiring light trucks to
be equipped with emission controls, i.e.. catalytic converter, the F150 had
a heavier rating to avoid the emission requirements, making the f100 a less
expensive choice.
At least that is how I remember it.
Larry

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Greenwood
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 & F150


>I have been told that the 100 is a 1/2 ton and the 150 is a heavy half.
>Hope this helps
>
>--joe
>
>Bill Brox wrote:
>
>> What's the difference between a F100 and a F150 pickup truck ?
>>
>> Please, enlighten me.
>>
>> Bill Brox
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:02:00 -0800
From: "Sam Weatherby"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 79 F250 in Barrow

There is one other besides you.
I don't live there now, but my heart is still there!
-srw

Sam Weatherby SWeatherby uswest.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://insert.com/sammy ICQ # 18354914
'70 Mustang Grabber Sportsroof
'93 F-150 XLT Lightning
'98 FXD Super Glide
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Bevington
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 6:47 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 79 F250 in Barrow


>It isn't too cold, 0-15 below this time of the year. I
>don't know if there are other list subscribers in Alaska.
>Probably. Thanks, Dan
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:26:53 -0800
>From: "Sam Weatherby"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 79 F-250 in Barrow, Alaska
>
>Barrow...
>Cool. Well actually cold huh? Cold I guess.
>So how many Alaskan's are ther on this list?
>-srw
>
>Sam Weatherby SWeatherby uswest.net
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://insert.com/sammy ICQ # 18354914
>'70 Mustang Grabber Sportsroof
>'93 F-150 XLT Lightning
>'98 FXD Super Glide
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Daniel Bevington
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 9:24 AM
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - 79 F-250 in Barrow, Alaska
>
>
>>I usually read the digest but now I have a question. I am
>>in the process of rebuilding my truck and am considering
>>putting bigger wheels on so I can drive it down the coast
>>on the beach, and launch our boat easier because our ramp
>>is constantly getting destroyed. Can anyone offer
>>suggestions about what I should be considering? Thanks, Dan
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:09:28 -0800
From: Al Evitts
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Steering Stabilizer on Van

Vanners: Has anybody used a Steering Stabilizer on a van? I have a
78 Econoline and a spare stabilizer and attaching equipment I wpild like
to use. What about mounting one end to the pass. side frame rail and
the otherto the tierod. Looks similiar to and early bronco set up.
What say you all or ya'all depending on where you live. TIA

Al
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:57:02 PST
From: "WILLIAM WHITED"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 302 starter

Is the starter on a 351 the same as a 302 starter?

74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390
79 F150 EXPLORER SUPER CAB 302
"IT DON'T GTMO BETTER THEN THIS, SEMPER FI"


______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:03:36 -0500 (EST)
From: metalheaddude webtv.net (Paul Drozdowski)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 54 f-250 flatbed

HI everyone,I was in a boneyard today and they had a 54 f-250 flatbed
the wood floor was gone but the frame was their.it had surface rust but
that can be sandblasted. the back of the frame even said (FORD) on
it.and the inside of the cab looked pretty complete too.the name of the
place is ABERDEEN AUTO SALVAGE. in morganville,NJ 222 TEXAS RD. phone
#(732)566-9899, (732)290-0943

I sure hope someone can use this it would be a shame to see it get
crushed.








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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:01:53 -0500
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351Mmers out there

>
> I guess that I'm gonna sound like somebody's Dad here.
> This is your first fourby. Don't even think about swapping engines until you
> have a bunch more experience. First thing is you may find out that you don't
> (God forbid) like your truck, or that you want a pickemup instead. Second
> thing is you can create something that is sooo cool that big brother is
> afraid of it and so won't let you license it! Now that would be a
> bummer!BTDT! Last thing is that you more likely end up spending money that
> you don't need to spend due to inexperience. This is not the same as
> spending money that you want to spend on your truck... I think everyone here
> is guilty of that!)
> Before you start down this path think it through.
> The 429/460 are great power makers. Building them will cost you slightly
> more then building the 400 parts and labor wise; and make more power. It is
> everything else that you need to have a happy truck with a new heart that
> adds up. Motor Mounts, Radiator, Headers, Flywheel, Brackets if you don't
> get them on the engine. Just be aware of this stuff before you start.

Completely agree here. On top of that, if you blow up your 351M, people
will be falling over themselves to give you their old motor they just
replaced with a big block. Many times, these people did a 351M rebuild
(full/pratial) and you get a motor in vey good shape.

OX

>
> Chris
> 79 Bronco
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:10:46 -0800
From: "jeffd"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals

Helms. They produce the manuals for Ford. The Ford dealer should know the
1-800 number or the phone operator.

Jeff

- ----------
> From: Mr. Paul R. Boudreault
> To: 'Ford CHAT'
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re Sources for Service manuals
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 5:16 AM
>
>
> Does anyone know of a place I could get a good service manual for
> this truck? I bought a Haynes but it's almost useless. I tried
> to find a Chiltons but nobody seems to have them any more
>
>
>
> Hi Mark.
>
> Had the same problem finding manuals for my 79 Bronco. Here are a few of
> the sources I have found which may have what you need.
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://pages.ebay.com/aw/search.html
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.osborn-reproduction.com/
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.vintage-books.com/
>
> An other source is - "Bob Johnson's Auto Literature, in MA.
> 1 508 872 9173
>
>
> Try some of these. I hope they help.
>
> Later,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:46:27 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Chat page

To those who've wondered when the chat page is going to be
back up.... I've been testing out the chat engine we used
in the spring (the one that would hang up every 2-3 days).
On the new server, it doesn't seem to have the hanging
problems. 2-3 more days of testing and it will be online.
This chat server doesn't use web server resources at all,
unlike the one we've been using which hogs 1 web connection
per user (which causes web visitors to wait for a web
connection if they're all used up).

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:56:25 -0600
From: "ben"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - instrument cluster

In my '79 F-150 the lights don't work on the dash, and also the oil, temp,
and fuel gauge needles go all the way over to one side until they hit and
stop when the ignition switch is on. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Email--> stevee itis.com

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:29:07 +0000
From: "Jay Fleming"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Popping Noise During Deceleration

Dan, Pull your oil breather while the motor is running and hold your
hand over the hole. See if the motor is pulling a huge vacuum. If
so, you've probably got a leaking intake manifold gasket. Since FE's
have that weird intake with the flanges under the valve covers, it's
a hard problem to diagnose. I once worked on a '70's school bus
with a 361 with the same problem. If you revved it high in a lower
gear and let it decelerate it would almost blow the muffler off.
Changed the gasket, gave it a good coat of RTV, and the backfire
disappeared!

Jay


Dan wrote:
> While addressing another subject, someone mentioned "popping"
> (backfiring) while decelerating and related it to a vacuum leak. I have
> the same problem with my '70 F100 (360, 4bbl). It backfires whenever
> the throttle is closed under load; for example when downshifting or
> sometimes even between shifts when I come off the gas.. Otherwise the
> engine runs great. I figured it must be an air leak somewhere but I
> sure can't find it. Any other possible causes? Adjusting the timing
> either way doesn't seem to affect it. Annoying.
>
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:47:15 -0800
From: "Jacques and Barbara DeKalb"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 Econoline owners

The 302 fits pretty well in an older Econoline but the first step is to
round up a '65 and later three-speed trans and bell-housing. You will
attach your '62 trans mount to the back of the later trans, but you need
the later set-up in order to match the bell-housing to the 302.
Jacques DeKalb
Bend, Ore.


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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:47:22 -0800
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Diesel Air Cleaner

Finaly got the specs.on the 84 Diesel Air Cleaner; 5"x15".
It has no warm air intake but has a 5" ram air hose to the
core support.
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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:39:18 -0500
From: adam.hicks ppctx.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - My Ford is back! (But I have a question)


I just got my 77' F150 back from having the heads rebuilt and an
Edelbrock Performer 460 manifold and a Holley 750 Q-Jet installed.
Also had a real nice timing chain / gears installed along with a full
Fel-Pro (sp?) gasket set, blah blah blah. Long story short, the thing
runs like a bat outta hell. So smooth with such a nice torque curve.
I only have a few minor questions.

One - When I unlock my gas cap and pull it off, there is a huge vacuum
that equalizes when I take the cap off. I'd imagine this is pretty
normal, but wouldn't that work against my fuel pump that's trying to
pull the opposite direction? Does that sound nuts?

Two - With that new carb on the 460, should I consider a higher-flow
fuel pump if such a thing is available? I think Edelbrock and a few
others make 'em. It has a fairly new pump on it, but it's more than
likely a plain ole' stock replacement.

Three - My truck, being a 77', has minimal emission control junk (no....


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