61-79-list-digest Wednesday, November 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 533



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Fan shroud
FTE 61-79 - Help, my timing is way off
Re: FTE 61-79 - Water Leak, 292 V8
FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79-list- Motor Break-in
FTE 61-79 - 1970 F-350 for sale
FTE 61-79 - vibration
FTE 61-79 - more vibration/heating/cooling
FTE 61-79 - RE: Motor Break-in & water leak
FTE 61-79 - Re: rattling windows
FTE 61-79 - Water Leak, 292 V8
FTE 61-79 - Cargo light for '69
FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil
Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil
FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES
Re: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79-list- Motor Break-in
Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil
Re: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES
FTE 61-79 - Timing chain alternative
FTE 61-79 - disc brakes
FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES
Re: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES
RE: FTE 61-79 - 69 auxillery fuel tank
FTE 61-79 - White Spokers - Old Style
Re: FTE 61-79 - Water Leak, 292 V8
Re: FTE 61-79 - White Spokers - Old Style
Re: FTE 61-79 - more vibration/heating/cooling
FTE 61-79 - Oops, I've outed myself
FTE 61-79 - Larger Than stock oil pan for 79 351M - Where do you get one?
FTE 61-79 - I'm a newbie to the list, just bought a '79 4x4, need lots of help!!!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re Timing chain altenative
Re: FTE 61-79 - NP 205 Knob
FTE 61-79 - detroit locker 9" ford
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 2-V to 4-V?

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:08:50 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fan shroud

David Wadson writes: >> Also, correct me if I'm wrong, if you
don't have the fan shroud, the engine will run a little warmer. Or is it
cooler...

W a r m e r...

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:31:24 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Help, my timing is way off

Well okay mine and my truck's. Anyway last week I "fixed" it by putting in
a new timing chain and gears ... everything ran great ... way more power
with the distributor not floating around (that old chain was LOOSE!). Well
then Sun. afternoon I was getting ready to go play some hockey (street) and
while it was warming up in the driveway we were loading our stuff into the
back of it. Suddenly it started to drop its idle quickly and missing ... I
figured the choke just opened too fast and/or it was out of gas (pretty
low) So last night I finally got some more gas in it and started to crank
it ... it sputtered a little, firing waaay to late when it was firing at
all ...

My hunch is that when I tear it apart I'm gonna find the distributor
shifted advanced one full notch advanced. While I'm sure this would be
great if I was drag racing, its really a pain on a street truck (daily
driver when it runs)

Someone suggested a loose rotor, I checked that, but I'll check it again.
Someone else suggested a roll pin had sheared, but I tried to twist things
by hand and it didn't seem to be, but I could have missed something, if you
could resend how to check that I will do it.

Does anyone have any other ideas ? Its not the timing chain, that was done
and everything worked out on it (new chain and the dots lined up)


Help
Bill
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:37:14 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Water Leak, 292 V8

>Started filling it up with H2O and found a small leak,
>on the small hose between the intake manifold and
>pump, no problem, re-positioned clamp and leak stops.
>
I always have this problem, think its time for some new clamps for me, but
you really gotta crank down on that hose ...



>However (there had to be one) it leaks significantly
>from the left rear of the manifold in an area that I can't
>see directly, even with air filter off.
>
>I don't know that much about these water cooled engines,
>but I suspect that there is a cooling channel from the
>intake manifold into the engine back there.
>
Yup, right through the back of the manifold and into the heads if I
remember right ...



>I didn't touch anything in that area at all!
>Any ideas what is going on here!

My hunch would be the gaskets between the intake and heads, if not it, then
the head gaskets, either way the intake has to come off, and you should be
able to see right away if thats where its leaking or if the heads have to
come off too ... Also check the oil to see if its way over full, if so,
then you've got anti-freeze leaking into the cylinders making a really nice
mess.

Maybe someone knows more specifically of a problem with these engines ...



Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:09:29 -0700
From: Jason & Vedra Cajune
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79-list- Motor Break-in

I have a 76 F-150 4wd and I just pulled the 360 and had it rebuilt. Everything went in fine and I've run it about 100 miles so far.
Considering I'm more of a woodworker than a mechanic I was very happy to get it in and out with no hangups. Questions: The power steering
makes that awful whining sound now quite a bit when it didn't before. It's full of fluid and no visible leaks. Is the pump just tired?
Second, the truck is alot louder, now. It seems to have more rear end exhaust noise and what sounds like alot of air sucking noise at the
carb. Is this all normal for a new motor? It had glass packs on it when i bought it so it was already loud enough. Third, the temp guage
barely gets into the normal operating range even when going over the pass I live near. It is getting colder here,(Montana) so maybe I
should do the cardboard trick and see if that gets the temp up? Fourth, what else should I be doing during the break-in? My manuals just
go to the initial startup and nothing after that. I check all the fluids and check for leaks but what else should I do to it? I hope this
doesn't sound nuts but all of my little foreign cars I run synthetic oil in and they start up nicer in the winter and none of em use any
oil after almost 200k miles, anybody use synthetic in their v-8? The guy who rebuilt the motor said after 2000 miles or so it would be no
problem. This is the first V-8 truck I've had with a good motor so I want it to last. Any thoughts? Thanks Jason Cajune

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:16:50 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1970 F-350 for sale

I stopped today and looked at this F-350 I mentioned, and here's the deal.

Its a 1970 model, NO RUST on the body, 390, T-18, new interior, 2-ton
tilt/flat bed, all the chrome trim is intact, etc...etc....he's asking $3,500.
If anyone is looking for something like this, this truck looks like its worth
the trip to pick it up....the owner obviously took excellent care of the
thing....

Let me know, and I can get a telephone number.....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:20:53 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - vibration

Dave,

I sure hope I'm wrong, but everything you describe indicates head gasket
problems. First, the weird heating/cooling. Next the vibration thing. I had
a B !ck that behaved exactly as you described concerning the vibration.
When I tore it down, it had a blown head gasket between two adjacent
cylinders. It ran fine going down the road, but when I took my foot off of
the gas to coast it had a wicked vibration. Tire vibration will generally
occur at the same speed whether you are coasting, pulling, or being towed.
If your vibration happens only when coasting ................


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:00:17 -0600
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - more vibration/heating/cooling

Dave,

No fan shroud generally means less efficient cooling or excessive heat
because the air doesn't get sucked through as well when you are sitting
still. Going down the road forward, it probably wouldn't make much
difference.

A thermostat usually has a little tower looking thing on the top side and
is kind of flat with a round hole on the bottom where the stopper fits.
(Not a good technical description, but I think it conveys the idea.) I have
seen thermostats with the tower down in the block/manifold. They don't work
very good in this orientation. You also have to put the thermostat in the
groove, then the gasket, then the housing. I've seen this order shuffled,
too, but that usually results in a broken housing ear or an incurable leak.

Driveshaft u-joints are a good possibility of the source of your vibration.
Coasting/pulling will make a difference. Believe me, that is a much better
problem to have than head gaskets. A compression check should rule out
cross firing between cylinders. If two adjacent cylinders have low
compression, however, haul out the greasy coveralls and drain pans.

Good luck!!!

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:28:34 -0600
From: "Bob Brothers"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Motor Break-in & water leak

Here's my experiences with similar problems Jason and Jeff had:

Jason Cajune wrote....

Jason: The power steering makes that awful
whining sound now quite a bit when it didn't before.
It's full of fluid and no visible leaks.
Is the pump just tired?

Bob: I just pulled my old 360 out and installed a junque yard special.
My problems were very similar to what you describe. What I thought
was power steering pump noise turned out to be a squeal coming from
the rear of the carb spacer plate. I had put a carburator gasket
between the spacer and the intake manifold not realizing that it
didn't seal the part of the spacer that the PCV valve hose connected
to. This was the 2bbl carb spacer, the 4bbl manifold/spacer I took
off didn't have this vacuum port.

Jason: The truck is alot louder, now. It seems to have more rear
end exhaust noise and what sounds like alot of air sucking noise
at the carb. Is this all normal for a new motor? It had glass
packs on it when i bought it so it was already loud enough.

Bob: An additional symptom of the above vacuum leak was a really cool
sounding
POP! POP! POP! whenever I let off the accelerator. Yes, the new engine
did
seem louder than my old engine, but I figured that was because of the
leaking exhaust manifold gasket I failed to replace prior to installing
the engine (dumb!).

Well since I also had a water leak at the intake gasket and had to pull
the intake manifold. I decided to pull the exhaust manifold and put a
new gasket between the intake and carb spacer. (BTW since I bought an
engine hoist to replace the engine it sure comes in handy for lifting
that 100lb intake manifold)

After completing the above, the engine is now quiet (except for the
nice rumble from the glass packs) and doesn't loose coolant.



Jeff said: ... it leaks significantly
from the left rear of the manifold in an area that I can't
see directly, even with air filter off.

I don't know that much about these water cooled engines,
but I suspect that there is a cooling channel from the
intake manifold into the engine back there.

I didn't touch anything in that area at all!
Any ideas what is going on here!
Bummer.

Bob: When I replaced the 360 in my 70F100 I removed the 4bbl intake and
installed my old 2bbl (the 750CFM Holley 4bbldidn't have a choke plate)
I didn't use any RTV. The result was a nice trickle of water down the
back of the engine. I assume the trickle turned into a torrent after
driving 20 or 30 miles, because I kept loosing enough coolant to
overheat.

I was afraid the engine I had purchased from the junque yard had
a busted block or head... Finally was able to run the engine long
enough for the trickle to start and had my wife look from underneath
while I poked my finger around the back of the engine until she said
I was touching the right spot. It was right at the junction of the
intake manifold and the head.

Pulled the head, got new gaskets, a tube of red RTV and voila...
no leaks.

Regards
Bob Brothers


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:41:38 -0600
From: "Jamey Moss"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: rattling windows

AL wrote:

> My 65 F100 windows rattle a lot. The rubber is worn out in them and the
> doors. Some one told me that it's a pretty hard job to replace that
> stuff...is that true?

The anti-rattlers are the felt pieces at the base of the window, and
they are easy to remove and install, as someone previously mentioned.
Your windows may still rattle after replacing those if the window
channel at the top of the window is really old and worn out, however.
The window channel at the top of the window curves down and is the rear
vertical window channel as well. This piece is very easy to install,
but getting the old one out can be quite a pain. The rubber gets very
hard and brittle over time, and I had to chip mine out with a
screwdriver a little section at a time. The front window channel that
attaches to the back of the vent window frame was a bit easier to
replace on mine because it wasn't as brittle.

I bought all of the widow channels and gaskets from Dennis Carpenter
Reproductions, and the catalog had good step-by-step instructions for
replacing these parts (but that was for 67-72 trucks, yours might be a
little different). Their website is: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dennis-carpenter.com

If you end up trying to replace everything, including the vent window
gaskets, you'll need a hard-to-find rivet tool to drive in the rivets
that hold the gasket to the vent window frame. Mid Fifty F-100
(1-800-252-1956) sells a rivet installation tool for $8 that worked
great on my truck.


Good luck on your windows,


Jamey Moss
ra4001 email.sps.mot.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.prismnet.com/~jamey/f100/


.
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:53:21 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Water Leak, 292 V8

>I finally got all the bits and pieces of the coolant
>system back together. '64 F100 CrewCab, 292 V8
>with leaky water pump. New to working on this truck,
>or V8's for that matter.
>
what ARE you used to working on?

>I replaced every piece of coolant line, removed and
>replace thermostat, fixed broken bracket on radiator,
>and all that good stuff, installed new water pump.
>
>Started filling it up with H2O and found a small leak,
>on the small hose between the intake manifold and
>pump, no problem, re-positioned clamp and leak stops.
>
>However (there had to be one) it leaks significantly
>from the left rear of the manifold in an area that I can't
>see directly, even with air filter off.
>
>I don't know that much about these water cooled engines,
>but I suspect that there is a cooling channel from the
>intake manifold into the engine back there.
>
what are you, some sort of converted volkswagen lover? :-)

>I didn't touch anything in that area at all!
>Any ideas what is going on here!
>Bummer.
>
On mine, there was a metal tube that went from the manifold back to the
auto trans cooler, which is mounted on the side of the trans. Anyway, that
tube had a rust hole on the bottom of it, right by the carb, but the water
trickled down under the manifold and ran down the galley cover until it
dripped off the back of the engine, which made it look like it was coming
off the back of the manifold. Maybe that is your problem?

Oh, wait, you said LEFT rear. My problem was on the right (passenger
side). Uh, the coolant sensor is back there, could that be leaking?
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:53:17 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cargo light for '69

>Can anyone tell me;
>1. Where was the cargo switch located on a '69?
>
It's on the dash to the left of the cigarette lighter, or choke, if so
equipped. It has a red light on the end just like Pat Brown said. And to
answer your question, Pat, yes, Ford did move the switch up behind the
driver's left ear, I think in 1973. Not sure the exact year but I have
seen them there. I think Chevy put it there, too, for a time (copycats).

>2. On 67-72 trucks with a spare tire holder mounted inside the bed (holds
>tire vertical - styleside), does anyone have one installed that they can
>measure to location of for me, and tell me if it is a bolt-in bracket, etc.
>etc.?
>
I have one on a parts truck, it is a bolt in bracket. Not sure if mine is
a factory item because I thought the factory one was up near the cab but
this one is back by the tailgate on the left side. Email me direct and let
me know specifically what measurements you are after.

>3. On '69 genre, when they came (such as camper special) with auxillary fuel
>tank, where was it located, and was it's filler neck in a flush-mount door
>arrangement like later trucks?
>
I have a '68 C/S with the aux tank. It is located between the frame rails
on the left side, up under where the driver sits. The filler neck is thru
the bed side up near the top, about a foot or so from the cab. It comes
with a big skid plate underneath.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:02:08 -0800
From: "Jeff Hannon"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil

My '79 300-6cyl burned some oil when my PCV failed. The oil came from the
crankase breather hose into the air cleaner and clogged the air filter.
The way I noticed it was poor milage and it was struggling to reach
60-70mph. Pretty soon the engine would stall as soon as the choke opened.

There are actually three filters in my system. There is a course sponge
filter in the breather cap. There is a finer sponge filter where the
breather hose enters the air cleaner. And of course the air filter.
All were completely soaked with oil. I replaced all of these and the
PCV itself. Solved my problem.

>
>
> Simple question: would a faulty PCV or PCV hose cause my 460 to burn oil?
>
> -Justin Farcas


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:11:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil

Hmmm...I have another question then. (ugh...one leads to another...) What
are all the vacuum hoses that I should have hooked up? I'm trying to
troubleshoot this oil burning thing. I only notice the oil burning if the
enigne is straining, or revving higher, never burns when it's idling. I
checked my PCV and it sems to work fine. I don't really know why it's
burning oil. It's a new rebuilt 460 with about 200 miles on it.

Thanks for your help...


Justin Farcas

>
> >
> My '79 300-6cyl burned some oil when my PCV failed. The oil came from the
> crankase breather hose into the air cleaner and clogged the air filter.
> The way I noticed it was poor milage and it was struggling to reach
> 60-70mph. Pretty soon the engine would stall as soon as the choke opened.
>
> There are actually three filters in my system. There is a course sponge
> filter in the breather cap. There is a finer sponge filter where the
> breather hose enters the air cleaner. And of course the air filter.
> All were completely soaked with oil. I replaced all of these and the
> PCV itself. Solved my problem.
>
> >
> >
> > Simple question: would a faulty PCV or PCV hose cause my 460 to burn oil?
> >
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:30:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES

Alright. I'm sure some of you, if not all of you are tired of
hearing me talk about my truck burning oil, but I'm trying my hardest to
troubleshoot this thing, so I hope you don't mind if I run down things
again, looking for any advice.

I own a 79 F150 4x4 with a 460 and an a/t. I just put the rebuilt
460 in it, and lately, I've been noticing some oil burning. The engine
only has about 2000 miles on it. The only times that it burns oil it when
it revs, or is straining, basically whenever I give it gas real good. It
never burns when it idles. It's not VERY distinct, yet it IS noticeable.
I checked my PCV, and it seems fine. I was thinking something just needed
I checked my PCV, and it seems fine. I was thinking something just needed
adjusted, but I don't know what. If anyone could give me some tips on how
to test what's wrong, or even how to fix it, I would GREATLY appreciate it.

One last problem: transmission. 3 speed automatic, it makes a
metallic grating sound with I put it into gear, either DRIVE or
REVERSE. Sounds like some sort of metal getting caught up between
something. The sound comes up from the front part of the truck.

Sorry about the length of this, but I write it in distress. Thank
you for bearing with me this long.


-Justin Farcas

- --



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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:32:26 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79-list- Motor Break-in

>it in and out with no hangups. Questions: The power steering
>makes that awful whining sound now quite a bit when it didn't before. It's
>full of fluid and no visible leaks. Is the pump just tired?

I would double check that it is full after running through full turns on
the steering a couple of times ... but it is possible it gave up the ghost
too ...




>Second, the truck is alot louder, now. It seems to have more rear end
>exhaust noise and what sounds like alot of air sucking noise at the
>carb. Is this all normal for a new motor? It had glass packs on it when i
>bought it so it was already loud enough.

I would expect a freshly rebuilt engine with lots of compression to be
louder and suck more (air!) when its new ... though someone mentioned a
gasket leaking, so I would definitely check that first for the sucking
sound ....


>Third, the temp guage
>barely gets into the normal operating range even when going over the pass I
>live near. It is getting colder here,(Montana) so maybe I
>should do the cardboard trick and see if that gets the temp up?

Check the gauge and sending units first, I haven't been able to get a
sending unit that will work with the factory gauge very well, most of the
after market ones I get will barely get into the middle of the range before
the vehicle overheats ... might just try another one, if you're using the
original sending unit, I'd definitely replace it as when they go bad (for
me anyway) they only register about 1/2 of what they should...



Fourth, what
>else should I be doing during the break-in? My manuals just
>go to the initial startup and nothing after that. I check all the fluids and
>check for leaks but what else should I do to it?

*shrug* haven't had this yet ... though hopefully I'll be breaking in a 428
or 410 in a couple of months ... >:)


I hope this
>doesn't sound nuts but all of my little foreign cars I run synthetic oil in
>and they start up nicer in the winter and none of em use any
>oil after almost 200k miles, anybody use synthetic in their v-8? The guy who
>rebuilt the motor said after 2000 miles or so it would be no
>problem. This is the first V-8 truck I've had with a good motor so I want it
>to last. Any thoughts?

A lot of people with the new 4.6L V8 'Stangs (including me) run the
synthetics, my roommate also has run synthetic for about the last whole
lotta miles in his 351W. He claims that's why his engine has lasted so
long ...

Hope this helps a little ....
Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:02:53 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil

It's probably burning oil because it's not broken in. The rings aren't
fully seated yet. Take it a little easy on the engine for a couple of
hundred more miles. Keep a close eye on the oil level and change the oil at
500 miles.

- ----------
> From: Justin Farcas
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad PCV and burning oil
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:11 AM
>
> Hmmm...I have another question then. (ugh...one leads to another...)
What
> are all the vacuum hoses that I should have hooked up? I'm trying to
> troubleshoot this oil burning thing. I only notice the oil burning if
the
> enigne is straining, or revving higher, never burns when it's idling. I
> checked my PCV and it sems to work fine. I don't really know why it's
> burning oil. It's a new rebuilt 460 with about 200 miles on it.
>

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:10:50 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES

Your last post said 200 miles on the motor. This one says 2000. So which is
it? If it has 2K on it then you may have a problem with some rings not
seating. Check your spark plug condition. Look for plugs with heavy black
deposits on them. This will tell you which cylinders are burning oil.
Honestly I don't know any easy way to correct the problem. It usually
involves removing the head(s) and cleaning & rehoning the cylinder(s) then
putting in a new set(s) of rings. Maybe someone else on the list knows of a
"cheap trick" to fix the problem.

- ----------
> From: Justin Farcas
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:30 AM
>
>
> I own a 79 F150 4x4 with a 460 and an a/t. I just put the
rebuilt
> 460 in it, and lately, I've been noticing some oil burning. The engine
> only has about 2000 miles on it. The only times that it burns oil it
when
> it revs, or is straining, basically whenever I give it gas real good. It
> never burns when it idles. It's not VERY distinct, yet it IS noticeable.
> I checked my PCV, and it seems fine. I was thinking something just
needed
> adjusted, but I don't know what. If anyone could give me some tips on
how
> to test what's wrong, or even how to fix it, I would GREATLY appreciate
it.

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:28:14 -0800
From: "Jeff Hannon"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Timing chain alternative

The '76 and '79 300 6cyl blocks I have are both directly geared cams
- - no timing chain. There are only two gears, crank and cam. The V8
gear sets have 4 gears to get the correct rotation. (The two intermediate
gears are performing the same function, just distributing the forces,
right?) The V8 gears I've seen (in Summit Catalog) are all straight cut
gears. I'm pretty sure mine are helical cut but I'd have to look again
to make sure). That would explain why there is no noticeable noise from
mine.

I'm curious about your "Gear drive systems consume more engine power"
comment. It seems that the chain would be less efficient at transferring
energy than a direct gear setup. Am I backwards here?

As far as reliability and wear: Both engines have over 150K miles on
them with no appreciable wear problems on these gears. I always thought
it was a much more elegant design. Chains go on bikes. :-)


> Gear drives are intended for racing applications to maintain timing
> stability and accuracy at very high rpm operation. Gear drive systems
> consume more engine power than chains. Unlike a chain, though, the gear
> drive system will not elongate or "stretch" as it wears.
>
> I have not heard about the long-term reliability of gear drive systems.
If
> it needed to be replaced every 50-75K miles, I'd say you're better off w/
a
> good double roller chain that will last at least that long, rob less
power
> from the engine, and cost about 1/4 as much as the gear drive.
>
> Dave R. (M-block devotee)

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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:19:40 -0600
From: juredd - Justin Reddell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - disc brakes

Is it possible to put disc brake of the front of a 69 f-100 Ranger? I have no idea of where to start. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank,
Justin Reddell
Little Rock, AR
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:02:05 -0600 (CST)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES

>Justin Farcas [ae571 seorf.ohiou.edu] wrote:
> I own a 79 F150 4x4 with a 460 and an a/t. I just put the rebuilt
460 in it, and lately, I've been noticing some oil burning. The engine
only has about 2000 miles on it. ...


Justin, I agree with previous members that your rings may not have
properly set. If you have 2K miles, then something is wrong, if its only
200 then just be patient. Here is some of the tidbits that I learned
before I put new rings in my truck. Some of it you may find useful, even
after the fact. Many thanks to the list members for their contributions to
this mini faq.

"Premium" Rings are Chrome-Moly. These are the hardest rings and
take the longest to set. The cylinder must be conditioned at 35 degree
cross hatch and 600 grit. Presumably the will wear the cylinder out
before they wear out. (Although I had 3 cracked chrome moly rings that I
replace)

"Economy" Rings are cast iron. These rings are softer and presumably
do not last as long (although no one I know has actually quoted data
supporting this). The cylinder must be conditioned at 45 degree cross
hatch and 400 grit. As these rings are somewhat "softer" they are
considered to be more forgiving of poor cylinder hone/roundness.

Rings should not be assembled dry. 2 cycle engine oil, STP and other
lubes have been suggested , but some point out that too much may be
counter productive to the rings "setting".

The gap on the rings must be measured and within specs (ON EACH
CYLINDER!). The gaps should be positioned properly to prevent
leakage.

If the pistons are reused, the rings and the "lands", or ledges on the rings
should be cleaned carefully to provide a flat surface for the ring to press
against.

After installing the rings, treat the engine as if it were new. See Gary's
tech article on breaking in a new engine on the FTE website. A few
highlights.... don't go over 50 mphs. Dont drive at constant speed
(although I think this is more aptly phrased as a constant rpm!). Avoid
deceleration (I have noooo Idea how one is supposed to do this, but I
think the jist of it is that down shifting is to be avoided for braking
purposes).


finally, Azie provided the following

my boss, in a garage, ~25 years ago): Remove air cleaner, start
engine,
pour Bon-Ami (scouring cleanser) in the carb, while keeping engine
running.
Abrasive in cleanser will allow rings to re-seat. Supposedly. I've never
tried it, probably never will :-) >>

Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:02:34 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - TROUBLES....AND MROE TROUBLES

Jason wrote:
> I own a 79 F150 4x4 with a 460 and an a/t. I just put the rebuilt
>460 in it, and lately, I've been noticing some oil burning. The engine
>only has about 2000 miles on it. The only times that it burns oil it when
>it revs, or is straining, basically whenever I give it gas real good. It
>never burns when it idles. It's not VERY distinct, yet it IS noticeable.

Hmmm, O.K... One post said the motor has 200 miles on it, this one
says 2000... which is it?

If it's only 200, then I wouldn't worry about it. The rings aren't
seated yet. If it's 2000, then they should be seated in by now
unless the cylinder wall finish wasn't correctly done, or someone
broke a ring during installation.
A broken ring will usually show up as an oily spark plug in that
cylinder, so pull the plugs for a look.
If the rings aren't seated yet at 2000 miles then it's a tough call
since your choices are to either wait it out and see if it gets better
with time, or to pull it apart again to have it done right...

Good luck,

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:47:14 EST
From: F1fordtruk aol.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 69 auxillery fuel tank

the auxillery fuel tank on the 69 is located between the frame, under the
front of the bed. the filler neck sticks out of the front drivers side of the
bed in the same fashion as the cab tank.

66 F-100 390, C-6
69 F-250 360 4-speed camper special

> 3. On '69 genre, when they came (such as camper special) with auxiliary fuel
> tank, where was it located, and was it's filler neck in a flush-mount door
> arrangement like later trucks?
>
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:39:03 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - White Spokers - Old Style

I'm looking for a set of 8.25x16.5 (8-lug) white spokes....you know, the older
style. I looked at a new set today at Discount Tire, and they look different
than the "older" style...

The older style seemed to have bigger "spokes".....

Anyone know if anyone makes these anymore, or does anyone have a set laying
around????

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:47:28 -0700
From: "Jeff Carver"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Water Leak, 292 V8

John -

You have given me hope that it might be something
other than a intake manifold gasket!

Where is the coolant sensor attached?
I'll have to take a much closer look & double
check manual.

I'll fess up to having WORKED on VW's for
the past 20+ years, along with some Subaru,
Toyota & Sunbeam thrown in to spice things up.
Now I get to build up an SAE toolbox!

Though I've been driving this same truck since I
started driving or actually before that, as a kid on my
mom's lap turning the wheel on summer travels.

I remember working with dad on this truck once.
We tried to adjust the distributor timing, the one up
under the windshield, he never touched it again.

Now that it's my truck, I get to work on it!
I've gotten close, but never went deeper into
any engine than the heads, so the innards
are somewhat of a mystery.

I've started to spray Liquid Wrench on the manifold
bolts just in case, to be repeated daily until . . . . .

Thanks

Jeff
'64 F100 CrewCab

- --

On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:53:21 John Strauss wrote:
>>I finally got all the bits and pieces of the coolant
>>system back together. '64 F100 CrewCab, 292 V8
>>with leaky water pump. New to working on this truck,
>>or V8's for that matter.
>>
>what ARE you used to working on?
>
>>I replaced every piece of coolant line, removed and
>>replace thermostat, fixed broken bracket on radiator,
>>and all that good stuff, installed new water pump.
>>
>>Started filling it up with H2O and found a small leak,
>>on the small hose between the intake manifold and
>>pump, no problem, re-positioned clamp and leak stops.
>>
>>However (there had to be one) it leaks significantly
>>from the left rear of the manifold in an area that I can't
>>see directly, even with air filter off.
>>
>>I don't know that much about these water cooled engines,
>>but I suspect that there is a cooling channel from the
>>intake manifold into the engine back there.
>>
>what are you, some sort of converted volkswagen lover? :-)
>
>>I didn't touch anything in that area at all!
>>Any ideas what is going on here!
>>Bummer.
>>
>On mine, there was a metal tube that went from the manifold back to the
>auto trans cooler, which is mounted on the side of the trans. Anyway, that
>tube had a rust hole on the bottom of it, right by the carb, but the water
>trickled down under the manifold and ran down the galley cover until it
>dripped off the back of the engine, which made it look like it was coming
>off the back of the manifold. Maybe that is your problem?
>
>Oh, wait, you said LEFT rear. My problem was on the right (passenger
>side). Uh, the coolant sensor is back there, could that be leaking?


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:57:15 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - White Spokers - Old Style

I have two of the older style, but they are a 12 wide. They were on the front
of my truck when I got it, and true to form, they ate the front fenders. If
you have a two wheel drive, you could put these on the back. I've got that
setup on mine. 33/12.5R16.5 on the back and 31/9R16.5 up front, It looks real
nice, gives it that nice "raked" look. If your interested, lemme know. They
are in need of sand blasting and a paintjob, but other than that they are
fine.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:26:27 -0500
From: David Wadson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - more vibration/heating/cooling

>No fan shroud generally means less efficient cooling or excessive heat
>because the air doesn't get sucked through as well when you are sitting
>still. Going down the road forward, it probably wouldn't make much
>difference.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Not having a shroud would probably make more
of a difference in the summer when I would be pulling warmer air from
around the fan than through the rad. At present the only major impact it
has is on me - making sure that I don't get my hand in it when I'm checking
my rad hose temp...

>A thermostat usually has a little tower looking thing on the top side and
>is kind of flat with a round hole on the bottom where the stopper fits.
>(Not a good technical description, but I think it conveys the idea.) I have
>seen thermostats with the tower down in the block/manifold. They don't work
>very good in this orientation. You also have to put the thermostat in the
>groove, then the gasket, then the housing. I've seen this order shuffled,
>too, but that usually results in a broken housing ear or an incurable leak.

Yeah, that pretty much describes it. I asked a friend about it and he said
it is to have a slight trickle of coolant through the thermostat so that it
opens smoothly or something...

>Driveshaft u-joints are a good possibility of the source of your vibration.
>Coasting/pulling will make a difference. Believe me, that is a much better
>problem to have than head gaskets. A compression check should rule out
>cross firing between cylinders. If two adjacent cylinders have low
>compression, however, haul out the greasy coveralls and drain pans.

Yeah, no kidding! It's another irksome thing since those are also new
u-joints on the driveshaft. A possibility I want to look at is my rear
differential and wheel bearings. The only thing that I did with the rear
axle is the leaf springs. I tried to get the differential fluid changed on
the weekend but the oil jockeys at the lube shop couldn't suction the old
stuff out. Something about the drain hole being right up by the gears so
that they had to use the smallest suction tube and it would just clog right
up when they stuck it in there. Not having the removeable cover on the back
of the diff means I'll have to pop the "pumpkin" out the front. I'm a
differential virgin other than finishing off my first truck by busting one
so I think I'll be learning the internal workings of a rear axle soon. But
seeing as the fluid has probably been in there for the last 20 years of the
truck's life, it's probably worth cleaning it out.

I still get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever you mention the head
gasket...

On a differnet note, I had a slight pang of remorse for scrapping "PS-1"
(no, not that doesn't stand for Payload Specialist) as I drove around for
15 minutes this morning trying to find a parking spot at work. I could
have parked 2 blocks closer if I still had that shorter wheelbase! :-)


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS2" - 78 F100 w/ 302 & C4


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:10:28 -0700
From: "Jeff Carver"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Oops, I've outed myself

Oops, that last message was supposed to be pmail
to John, but . . . . . . blame goes to new email account
and operator error.

Looks like my past (and present) involvement with
'another' vehicle type has been exposed for all to flame,
ah, er, see, um, how about tolerate?

One thing you'all should know. I may flirt with 'others',
but the last (hopefully NEVER) vehicle to leave my
side will be my '64 F100 CrewCab.

I spotted that truck driving by when I was 10, dad &
I chased it down on our bicycles, it's been in the family
since 1965, it ain't gonna leave.

I may be experienced with some vehicles, but everything
I do, and everything I ask about, concerning this truck
is a brand new experience for me. VW's are just TOO
different to translate experience easily, & I didn't grow
up working on any vehicles, so I'm starting my Ford truck
education now! It's never too late to learn.


Jeff
'64 F100 CrewCab
I'd like any leads on other old crewcabs (any make) as
I'd like to start a webpage devoted to crewcabs.


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:07:53 -0500
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Larger Than stock oil pan for 79 351M - Where do you get one?

Hi All.

Does anyone know where you can get a larger capacity oil pan for the 351M
(79 Bronco).

Or do you have to cut and wield up a home made one?

Any info would be appreciated.

Later,

"Paul"


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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:41:36 EST
From: CCSSportz aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - I'm a newbie to the list, just bought a '79 4x4, need lots of help!!!!

Hey everyone,

I am new to this list (yesterday), and I am new to old trucks. I'm 16,
and just bought the truck of my dreams, well, I'd rather have a '77 or '78,
but I just got a '79 F-150 4x4. It has a 351M, Hurst 4 speed tranny with
granny (on the floor). It has a 9" rearend, 6" susp lift, 3" body lift, 36"
tires on the rear, and 35" tires on the front. All are on 15" rims. I don't
have any specific questions, I would just like some general advice on
modifying, restoring, and off roading. I know that until I can afford to buy a
matched set of tires, I can't do any 4 wheeling, strictly 2x4 unless I want to
kill my transfer case. Well, I live in Upstate New York, if anyone has any
used rim and oversized (36" or better) tire contacts I'd appreciate some
help...Or any contacts for restoration parts.........

Can anyone tell me if I got a good deal price wise. I think I got a great
deal, but then again I don't know what everything's worth.
I can send pictures if that'll help. (just e-mail)
Ok, there was a problem in the steering, I thought I would have to put in a
steering box, after buying one, I found that someone replaces the soft knuckle
and never cranked down the bold that clamps the steering column to the nipple
of the steering box. I cranked it after I found it, and now the steering
holds. I got the boneyard to take the box I bought back.
the cab floor rotted through in a small patch in the driver's side, and all
the passenger side. I bought a pop riveter and am going to rivet in new floors
this weekend..........any suggestion in material to use? The fenders, cab, and
bed are solid other than that, though the bottom of the bed was replaced
(covered up) with plywood. It doesn't need much body work at all, literally
rot free except a small hole over a frenderwell in the bed. some dents and
scratches, but I'm going to paint it soon. Well, anyway you all probably think
I'm a nutcase, my first post is long and boring - I'm sorry.

I paid 325.00 for it, I had to rent a trailer, and drive 5 hours one way to
get it. I love it, I hope you all can help me out and work me through some
problems that may occur.

It's always been my dream to get an old FORD truck, and work on it all by
myself. I just don't have alot of experience, and don't know what I'm going
alot of the time, so if I sound like I'm lost I probably am.

Can anyone tell me what the front end is supposed to look like ------ I mean
suspension, steering bars (Tirods??) steering stabilizers, shocks,
springs.........I don't know what I'm looking for to see if there are any
problems up under there........

Also I've never owned or even driven a 4x4, can someone tell me how to work
it. I'm sorry, I know I have to lock the hubs, but I don't know what is what
with the shifter, and gears. I know how to drive a standard - it's what I
learned to drive on a Mercury Lynx (Ford Escort)...........so that's not a
problem, but I am lost with the 4x4. Does the front drive shaft always turn
nomatter what - or only if I am in 4x4. I noticed it was turning , hubs were
unlocked and the shifter was there, I don't know if it was in 4WD or not
because I don't know what is where. You know. I'm sorry once again. You don't
have to respond if you don't want to , I am just excited about my truck, and
don't know how to use it, or what to do to fix it.

Just another FORD truck lover,

-Shawn Kelliher
(CCSSportz aol.com)
(Kelliher15 aol.com)
'79 F-150 4x4
You can see my truck under the pictorial of www.fordtrucks.com


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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:21:11 EST
From: JJJJJGRANT ....


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