61-79-list-digest Friday, November 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 512



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe, send email to:
majordomo ford-trucks.com
with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list-digest" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - steering column
FTE 61-79 - Pilotshaft bearing/bushing
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilot shaft bearing
FTE 61-79 - The He-Man Header Haters Club
FTE 61-79 - RE: 351 Headers
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilotshaft bearing/bushing
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilot shaft bearing
FTE 61-79 - starter motor gefixin
FTE 61-79 - space shuttle
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Sump Oil Pans
FTE 61-79 - 390 motors
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...
FTE 61-79 - Leaking Pinion Seal
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...
FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help
FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help
Re: FTE 61-79 - Gears sticking
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help
FTE 61-79 - 1968 F-250 steering column

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 03:43:47 -0800
From: John Lord
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steering column

Jay Fleming wrote:
>
> As I slowly work through my '72 F100 (automatic trans and power
> steering), I have discovered that my steering column is beyond
> repair.

My Father had the same problem with a 69 F-250.
I actually broke one morning as he was pulling out of the driveway
(better than the long steep hill half way to his daily job).

We found that nobody had a steering shaft anywhere. So (being a
Machinist) He drilled out the center of each broken end about 1/2 an
inch and between 1/4 and 3/8 in diameter, Tapered the outside of each
end, Put a piece of rod the right size inside, And when the ends were
butted together the beautiful v-grove was welded and built up and turned
down on a lathe to fit a new bearing.

We never did use a new lower bearing, the truck was too far go to
bother, we left it out and loosened off the plate through the firewall.
It was such a beater that every time i went over a speed bump the cab
would bounce and the clutch would momentarily disingage.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:56:59 -0500
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pilotshaft bearing/bushing

Steve D. writes: >>Hmmmm, the last time I checked, the pilot shaft and
crank turn at the same RPM in *any* gear. They can only turn at different
speeds when the clutch is disengaged...
A bushing should last a very long time!

Got me again. I thought of this last night at home and thought to myself -
Dummy - You just made a fool of yourself in front of the whole list. D U H
!!! I knew someone on the list would correct me, before I had the chance
to correct it myself. Oh well !! I was thinking in terms of the
outputshaft in relation to the crank, and I knew better.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:54:51 -0600
From: "James Elliott"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilot shaft bearing

I have been watching this one with mild interest, and rather than do all the
cut and paste ------

Re: the point about the input shaft only running at different speed than the
crankshaft in lower gears:

au contraire - the input runs at different speed than the crank shaft when
SHIFTING (unless the clutch slips really bad). Let's review, the input
shaft is driven by the clutch disc, the clutch disc is clamped between the
pressure plate and flywheel, which are bolted together, and the flywheel is
bolted to the crankshaft. The speed difference occurs when the clutch is
depressed, releasing the disc, allowing it to run at a different speed than
the crank, but is then brought back to the same speed when the clutch is
released.
The point of a bearing instead of a bushing is for performace
applications to help release drag on the pilot end of the input shaft to
improve shifting performance. This is seldom a consideration for the way
most of us use trucks. Now, in a D****n *-car (which we do not talk about),
which is frequently driven, ahem, enthusiastically, it can be of some
debatable benefit, and, yes, I will use a bearing. At a cost differential of
about $2 compared to a bushing, I figure, 'what the heck'.
If my truck were a standard and I replaced the clutch, unless I were
literally racing it, I would use a bushing and save the $2, working on the
theory that this is my TRUCK and there are a lot more moving parts to fail
in a bearing. Really just a matter of personal preference.

Jim E.



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:18:35 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE 61-79 - The He-Man Header Haters Club

Listers:

I thought about putting headers on mine when I got it built. I talked to
some guys I trust at a non-chain exhaust shop in town. I told them that I
didn't want to deal with all the foolish header nonsense (remove header to
get the starter out, change gaskets every so often, etc). They told me if I
wanted headers and didn't want problems, I would have to step up to Doug
Thorley or Thorsen or some high quality brand like that. These headers even
come with a guarantee that they will install with ease or you get your
money back. Once you put them in they are in to stay and don't give you any
problems.

Oh yeah, money. They *start* at $750. Quite the chunk of change. For me it
came down to the horsepower per dollar. I figured 10-15 HP for $750 and put
stock manifolds on my truck.

Just relating my experience on the matter.

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net
- ------------------------------

>Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:48:21 -0800
>From: Don Grossman
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - The He-Man Header Haters Club

>I just got done reading Ballinger's dissertation on headers and it just
>doesn't give me hope.

>I had finally decided that the headers have to go (390), now I'm not sure.
>My problems are with leaks and drive shaft clearance.

>All of the headers that I have seen are the full length. Does anyone make
a
>shorty header for the FE series? Would a shorty header offer a compromise
>between performance and fitment?

>Should I spend the $ for custom header? Should I go stock? What to do?
What
>to do?

- - --
>Don Grossman
>duckdon pacific.net
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
>ICQ# 19575234

>63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:21:29 -0600
From: Shawn Donkin
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: 351 Headers

Ok, RE:'ing to myself kinda here,

I'm planning on putting this new 351m in my truck this weekend and would

prefer to install the headers beforehand (is it possible to install it
with it in?,
i hope it's possible without being too much of a hassle) and i am
running out of
time. Also would like some advice on a good brand i might be able to
pickup locally
(Memphis, TN) that anyone has had good luck with.

*Any* advice would be greatly appreciated

Shawn Donkin
'68 F100 LWB 2x


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:25:47 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilotshaft bearing/bushing

From: am14 chrysler.com
Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:56:59 -0500
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pilotshaft bearing/bushing

> Got me again. I thought of this last night at home and thought to myself
> - Dummy - You just made a fool of yourself in front of the whole list. D

Face it Az, you're just a tired old man with brain flatulance.......:-) Don't let it
get you down, I used to think I had to get it right every time but now I just
throw bull out there and they eat it up :-) If you use big enough words they
don't understand it and just say "Ok, if you say so......" :-) Doesn't matter if
you don't understand it either....:-) I had a perfect record untill I started
discussing stuff others knew about.......:-)




Michigan Pot Hole Jumpin Bronco lover, -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:32:19 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilot shaft bearing

From: "James Elliott"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pilot shaft bearing
Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:54:51 -0600

> If my truck were a standard and I replaced the clutch, unless I were
> literally racing it, I would use a bushing and save the $2, working on the
> theory that this is my TRUCK and there are a lot more moving parts to fail
> in a bearing. Really just a matter of personal preference.

Too late to save the $2.00, I bought both bushings at the same time because
I couldn't make up my mind at the store. I now have a spare (if I can still
find it when I need it) :-)

Michigan Pot Hole Jumpin Bronco lover, -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:16:45 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - starter motor gefixin

Well, I couldn't sleep last night because my back is all trashed,
so I sat up for a while and drew up a picture of the lever that
bent in my starter motor and where I welded it to make it stronger.

If anybody cares, go here to see it:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/truck/starterfix

Happy motoring,


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:03:44 PST
From: "Don Jones"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - space shuttle

>>You also have trouble finding where the engine comes from, car,
>>truck and
>>so... but you don't mention the space shuttle....... LOL.

Judging by the size of gas tank on that sucker, i'd say it has an FE
engine in it.......

Don Jones...

______________________________________________________
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:16:11 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Sump Oil Pans

>From: Dan Lee
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear Sump Oil Pans
>
>I have to convert from a
>front sump oil pan to a rear sump. Will a 'M' block
>oil pan fit the Cleveland? If so what Year&Model
>'M' block has a rear sump?

Yo Dan:

The M-block oil pan will fit the 351C block. Some '70s cars used a rear
sump pan, not sure which though. All '80s truck M-blocks (1980 to 1982)
use a rear sump oil pan.

Good Luck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:14:11 -0600
From: juredd - Justin Reddell
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 motors

I have a 69 Ford F-100 truck with a 360 motor. I am looking for a 390 motor to replace it with. I found a couple and the people that have them but they don't seem to know if they are really a 390 or 360 motor. They are basing there knowledge on what the manifolds looks like and hay its got a 4 barrel intake so it's got to be a 390 because 360's didn't come out with 4 barrel intakes. Can someone tell me if there is anyway to tell the difference between the two motors without tarring it down? Also, what year model did Ford stop making 390 motors. One more thing, Can you tell the difference between a HP 390 and stock 390?


Thanks,
Justin Reddell
North Little Rock, AR
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:33:45 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...

At 02:14 PM 11/5/98 , you wrote:
>I have a 69 Ford F-100 truck with a 360 motor. I am looking for a 390 motor
>to replace it with. I found a couple and the people that have them but they
>don't seem to know if they are really a 390 or 360 motor. They are basing
>there knowledge on what the manifolds looks like and hay its got a 4 barrel
>intake so it's got to be a 390 because 360's didn't come out with 4 barrel
>intakes. Can someone tell me if there is anyway to tell the difference
>between the two motors without tarring it down? Also, what year model did

Can't help you with most of this ... I also have a 360 and am looking to
upgrade. I found a running one (burning oil though) for $150, and I'm
thinkin of building it to a 410 or 390, anyone help me out with what parts
I need for that ? They're all the same bore, and the local parts shop said
a 410 and 390 listed the same pistons ... true ? false ? anyone ?



>Ford stop making 390 motors. One more thing, Can you tell the difference
>between a HP 390 and stock 390?
>
>

Seems like I looked it up for my truck (74 running gear) and the difference
in HP between the 360 and 390 was like 10 or 15 hp, stock to stock. The
real feel though would be the torque, and from what I've heard its quite a
bit different.


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Cars/mustang.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:02:27 -0500
From: "The Freeman Family"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...

I'm pondering the same question on whether to build my spare 360 to a 410.
The piston is the same as the 390, the 360 piston will fit but the pistons
in the 390-410 must be slipper skirt to clear the crank. The only
difference that I'm aware of is the Crank and Connecting Rods. To build a
360 to a 410, use 390 pistons, a 428 crank and 428 connecting rods and there
you have your 410. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the 410 is externaly balanced
where the 360 and 390 are internally balanced. On original 410's the cam is
probably a little more aggresive as well. I think I've covered the basics.
I know Azie, Gary and all can fill in the good details. Hope this helps.

- -Ted
- -----Original Message-----
From: William S Hart
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...


>At 02:14 PM 11/5/98 , you wrote:
>>I have a 69 Ford F-100 truck with a 360 motor. I am looking for a 390
motor
>>to replace it with. I found a couple and the people that have them but
they
>>don't seem to know if they are really a 390 or 360 motor. They are basing
>>there knowledge on what the manifolds looks like and hay its got a 4
barrel
>>intake so it's got to be a 390 because 360's didn't come out with 4 barrel
>>intakes. Can someone tell me if there is anyway to tell the difference
>>between the two motors without tarring it down? Also, what year model did
>
>Can't help you with most of this ... I also have a 360 and am looking to
>upgrade. I found a running one (burning oil though) for $150, and I'm
>thinkin of building it to a 410 or 390, anyone help me out with what parts
>I need for that ? They're all the same bore, and the local parts shop said
>a 410 and 390 listed the same pistons ... true ? false ? anyone ?
>
>
>
>>Ford stop making 390 motors. One more thing, Can you tell the difference
>>between a HP 390 and stock 390?
>>
>>
>
>Seems like I looked it up for my truck (74 running gear) and the difference
>in HP between the 360 and 390 was like 10 or 15 hp, stock to stock. The
>real feel though would be the torque, and from what I've heard its quite a
>bit different.
>
>
>Just my 2cents
>
>Bill
>
>Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
>'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
>'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Cars/mustang.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:39:00 -0500
From: Dayton Boyd
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Leaking Pinion Seal

My hub seals and pinion seal was leaking on my rear axle (dana 60), so I
cleaned out the vent. The hub seals quit leaking, but the pinion still is
leaking as bad as it was. I figure the yoke is just worn down after many
miles. Do they make a repair sleve that could go over it like for a
dampaner? I guess that would fix it if there is such thing?? :)

cannandale
'78 F250 4x4, 460




== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:14:26 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help and such ...

Thanks for your message at 02:33 PM 11/5/98 -0600, William S Hart. Your
message was:
>At 02:14 PM 11/5/98 , you wrote:

>Can't help you with most of this ... I also have a 360 and am looking to
>upgrade. I found a running one (burning oil though) for $150, and I'm
>thinkin of building it to a 410 or 390, anyone help me out with what parts
>I need for that ? They're all the same bore, and the local parts shop said
>a 410 and 390 listed the same pistons ... true ? false ? anyone ?


My understanding is that the 410 is a 390 with the 428 crank/stroke. The
bore should be the same, but the rods would be different. I'm sure that
there's someone who knows more about this than I do, since this is where I
got my information...




1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:06:26 -0800
From: Eric Donaldson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help

I've been planning to turn my 352 into a 410 and have encountered
several difficulties:
Scarcity - the 410 was installed only in 66-67 Mercurys, standard in
every Park Lane and optional in the others. They're hard to find if you
want a complete motor.
Cost - you can make one from any 4.05 bore FE by using a 410 or 428
crank,which are identical. The problem is that anyone who has a 410
crank knows he has a 428 crank and prices it accordingly.
Balancing - not a problem if you have a complete 410 and plan to use an
automatic (they all came with a C6) but if you want to keep a manual
transmission you'll need either a scarce 428 flywheel or you'll have to
have your assembly balanced.

My plan was to attempt to restore the power lost when I changed from a
4.56 to a 3.73 gear. In light of the above, I might live with a .060
over 390 and, if I get rich, a GearVendors overdrive. But, if that old
Park Lane arrives at my favourite scrapyard, I go back to plan A.

Eric.

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:10:53 -0800
From: Eric Donaldson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help

P.S.: There are 9:1 pistons available for the 410 from(I believe)
Silvolite and Federal-Mogul.

Eric.

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:48:01
From: Ed Mulligan
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Gears sticking

Call the local Vo-Tech school. They have machine shop classes that usually
look for small projects like this. That's where the shifter bushings in my
Mustang came from. You usually pay for materials only, and if the student
messes the part up he/she "fails" so the work is usually good. 8^)

Ed



At 01:16 AM 11/4/98 -0800, you wrote:
>My sugestion is to find someone with a small lathe and some tough nylon.
. . .
>make all my own bushings and hard rubber bits, using a standard white
>nylon.
>

Ed & Laura Mulligan mulligan fullnet.net
VISIT THE FLATHEAD FORD V-8 SITE - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.fullnet.net/mulligan/
'92 5.0 LX "I love the sound of Flowmasters in the morning!"
'98 Contour SE - Black/tinted - "Darth Vader Jr., your car is ready."
"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the
darkness."
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:41:38 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390/410 help

Thanks for your message at 07:06 PM 11/5/98 -0800, Eric Donaldson. Your
message was:
> . But, if that old
>Park Lane arrives at my favourite scrapyard, I go back to plan A.
>
Where do you live and how much would you pay for a 66 Parklane with what
looks like a very good ( no smoke, etc.) 401 complete with tranny, etc.
Actually the car is almost too good to part out...



1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html....

---

To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Registration is free, easy and gives you access to more features.
If you are not registered, click here to register.
If you are already registered, you can login here.

If you are already logged in and are seeing this message, your web browser is blocking session cookies. Change your browser cookie settings to allow session cookies.