61-79-list-digest Sunday, November 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 506



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - 302 Won't start(Clicking gone)
FTE 61-79 - MEL series 430
FTE 61-79 - 5 speeds in an NP435 case
Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 speeds in an NP435 case
FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #505
FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #505
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Calling Dr Grossman....Dr Grossman Needed in Surgery
Re: FTE 61-79 - truck body swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - Newbie
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #505
FTE 61-79 - 240-300 engine swap?
FTE 61-79 - "Shunt" wire?
FTE 61-79 - Looking for Wiring diagram 72 F100
Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question
FTE 61-79 - Sway Bars
FTE 61-79 - Headers vs. Exhaust Manifolds
FTE 61-79 - hood latch
FTE 61-79 - Weatherstripping
FTE 61-79 - eliminate carrier bearing?
FTE 61-79 - Rear brake cable
FTE 61-79 - Re: NP435
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear brake cable
FTE 61-79 - Re: nomex/Uniboby Big Window?
FTE 61-79 - where are casting numbers on 351C?
FTE 61-79 - Fort Worth-Dallas area list members???

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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:10:19 PST
From: "WILLIAM WHITED"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 302 Won't start(Clicking gone)

thanks to everybody that offered help with my clicking 302. It was a
almost dead battery. I tried to jump it, I can get it to turn over but
right before she fires up it is like the starter locks up on me and
stops it. I haven't replaced the battery yet, because it takes awhile
to get them here, also I'm heading stateside Tues and wanted to get her
fired up and get any parts that I need to get while I am there.
It is a 79 and has the Spark Modulator on the driver's side, the
seleniod and a what looks like a tin box with Soild State Electronics on
it with some wiring in and out on the Passenger side and what I think is
the ignition coil(yellow clyinder thingy with one big wire leading to
the dist cab and 2 little wires on each side). I haven't done the
finger in the spark plug wire yet to see if it is getting fire, can't
find somebody to turn her over this early in the morning, but will do it
soon. I just think that she may be getting fire because she about goes
and the starter seems to stop it. Thanks in advance for any help.


74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390
79 F150 EXPLORER SUPER CAB 302
"IT DON'T GTMO BETTER THEN THIS, SEMPER FI"


______________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:49:53 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - MEL series 430

The 430 is from the MEL (Mercury Edsel Lincoln) series. The design is a
lot like an FE in many ways, but alot heavier. The heads have flat
decks (Heron style) with the chambers in the pistons like a
W-series(348-409) Chevy. They were torquey, but not really fast, because
they rev really slow because of the heavier pistons. They don't have
any performance potential, becaue no one made anything for it. And
nothing from the FE interchanges.

When I was a kid my dad and uncle helped a guy ( I helped a little by
keeping everyone in beer and tools) put a 462 (which is the same design)
in a '57 Ford Fairlane. You talk about learning a few four-letter
words. The poor springs just weren't up to the task either, so it
immediately had a nose-down attitude, along with zero-traction. My dad
tried to talk him into just hopping up his 312, but nooooo. It really
pissed the guy off when my dad beat him with his 312 (ECZ headed with a
4bbl Holley and what they used to call a 3/4 race cam) '55 Fairlane.(I
used to dream of owning that car and putting a 428CJ and C-6 in it.)

If you were restoring an old Merc, Edsel or Lincoln then it might be
worth going for, but I wouldn't fool with it otherwise.

> This should be a Lincoln motor, maybe Merc, but probably Lincoln. Lots o
> torque (something like 480 ft-lb rated) Good for ? well lots of stuff,
> but I have no idea how it mounts or anything, that's something you'd have
> to look at. If I were trying to get it, I'd be sure and get the motor
> mounts and bell housing at least with it.
- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:08:59 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 5 speeds in an NP435 case

The only NP 5-speed I've seen is the 540 that has a 1 1/2 in diameter
imput shaft. It's a 1:1 output in 5th. Maybe that's what they're
talking about. I've heard that a NP OD on the 540 pattern exists, but
I've never seen or driven one. The IHC's with the Clark were the only
OD trucks I've been able to find. The only overdrive 5-speed NP I've
seen is the modern NV4500, has anyone else seen one? I'd love to have a
5-speed big-truck OD that came in a Ford to put in my '65.

> I don't know where you are gonna put it. Does not seem like there is
> extra space for another gear. Don't most 5 spds have 5th gear outside
> the main case anyway. What 5 speed box are we talking about that had 2nd
> gear removed to become the NP435?
- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:26:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 5 speeds in an NP435 case

Date sent: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:08:59 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 5 speeds in an NP435 case

> The only NP 5-speed I've seen is the 540 that has a 1 1/2 in diameter
> imput shaft. It's a 1:1 output in 5th.

Do they have the same case as the 435 or at least the same bell housing bolt
pattern and tail shaft housing pattern?

Michigan Pot Hole Jumpin Bronco lover, -- Gary --
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:40:39 EST
From: Phazelag aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #505

IP Speedliner
This is a great address for Spray-on Bedliners. I hate to see any one
put a drop-in plastic bedliner in thier pride and joy. Those liners will help
the rust in your bed eat it away much faster. If you have never heard of
spray-on bedliners ( I am not talking about the canned crap) You should do a
www search for Rhinolinings, Speedliner, or Line-X. Speedliner is my favorite
because it is the strongest,it wont fade in the sun, and its usually the least
expensive. You can also custom match your factory paint code. I am not sure
how to effectively use this list. I have to download and open it in another
program (WordPad) other than my browser (Aol). So its not in an easy format
to reply to. If you have any suggestions on how to do this better please let
me know.
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:50:37 EST
From: Phazelag aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #505

I have a 1978 F150 with a 351M. its an automatic and 4x4. I have had problems
with it quitting as I am going down the road. I rebuilt the carburater
(2brl), replaced the fuel filter, and I had a local shop check it out. They
adjusted the carb and did some computer diagnostics on it and said its in
great shape and if it keeps quitting to try replacing the coil. i am going to
replace the coil but I dont think thats the problem because it starts right
back up. Ocassionally it takes a minute to get it started but usually fires
up. the Distributer and plug wires are new. I think the fuel pump is new it
looks brand new. If its not the coil? Should I replace the carb altogether?
I have also been told about fords having dirty fuel tanks. i would appreciate
any help. Its not very fun to have this thing dying. Occasionaly it revs
right before it quits. thanks
Scott
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:52:54 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Calling Dr Grossman....Dr Grossman Needed in Surgery

sparky mail.island.net wrote:

> Hi Doctor Grossman. The truck, I mean patient ;) in question is a 73 F250
> 4x4. He is having a difficult time steering as he is completely missing his
> power steering cylinder :( We here at the clinic are contemplating a
> complete transplant of a newer power steering box that would eliminate the
> need for this missing item. We are just unsure of what year/style of donor
> vehicle would be compatible. Dont really want the patient to reject the new
> organ :) Any info would be greatly appreciated. The patient also has a
> straight axle and leaf springs, if that makes a difference.
>
> Vaughn
> Proud New Owner Of
> '73 F250 4x4
> 390 4spd

That is what I like about trucks, they take years and years to die if you forget
about them ;)

There are lots of other boxes that you can swap in. just about all of them are
going to require a custom connection between the steering column and the box.
What I have on my 63 is a shevy box. Some people have had success with them, I
have not. I can turn to the left all day but I am limited to the right. With
35" tires the tires hit the pitman arm. With 31"s it might be ok, but not for
me.

Others have had good luck with Ford 2 wheel drive steering boxes. You will need
to box the frame to mount the box to the inside of the frame rail as well as add
support inside the boxing to keep the boxing from collapsing under the torque of
the mounting bolts. Another good box is the 77 1/2 - 79 F250 4x4 steering box.
It will need the same boxing but it has the correct pitman arm and is not as tall
as the 2x boxes, but the price for the box is out of this world in some parts of
the US. Someone once mentioned using a Dodge box. Not gona go there...

Right now I am thinking custom radius arms for my truck and using a F150 4x4
steering box.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon
ICQ# 19575234

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:56:01 -0600
From: Rick Sullivan
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - truck body swap

>The '80 F-Series had the same bed dimensions and wheelbase as
>the 73-79 trucks, but were three inches shorter in overall
>length and two inches narrower as well as having a shortened
>frame according to "Ford F100/F150 Pickup" by Robert
>Ackerson. Doesn't sound real promising.

>Mm, seems like I've seen an awful lot of those newer beds on
>the older trucks for it to really be that big of a problem ...
>though with a bed I suppose you can just drill new holes. ....

Actually the main problems I was thinkiing of would be with the
differences in mounting the cab. Given the tools, time and or
money most anything is possible. Living in the rust belt my
experience is that a totally rusted body is generally sitting
on a rusted frame. Have to consider the condition of the frame
when considering how much to put into a body swap. Just my
thoughts.
Rick
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:59:40 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Newbie

Check out www.recycler.com Thats where I found everyauto I ever bought, and
they cover large areas of this country. You may have luck there.

Anybody know why the Chebby's are easy to find in Sweden?

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:04:45 EST
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #505

Replace your Duraspark module. That will almost definately be your problem.
When they go out, your truck dies, as soon as it cools just a bit, it'll go
again, Right? Try that and see how it goes.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:49:49 -0500
From: Doug Roach
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 240-300 engine swap?

By some bizarre coincidence, a subscriber named Doug asked this morning
about 240/300 compatibility.
This week, my '67 -240 dropped a valve and after diligent inspection by
a mechanic I trust, the verdict is put a bullet in this tired old block
and swap it out. The recommendation was to find out if the manifolds
from my 240 are the same bolt pattern as a 300. IF that's the case, he
suggests putting in a 300 which he claims are readily available.
Not being sharp enough in auto mechanics to perform this function
myself, I have determined to turn to the list for advice and
information. I will then take that information around town to do the
grunt work of locating the new short block and then removing the old
240. They and the truck will then be towed to the guy who's going to do
the install.
This is all in an effort to save a few scheckels. Can I get away with
doing this swap for five hundred dollars or so? Or is that totally
unrealistic? Should I consider a junk-yard block or rebuilt?
The transmission (three on the tree) has an i.d. plate that is totally
illegible. The plate on the door shows the tranny to be a "C". I think
that's a Ford - not a Warner. Does this make a difference with the
engine swap? The truck has no power steering, no a/c, no electronic
ignition and a Ford one barrel carb with an oil bath air cleaner. Would
it be wise to change any of these "assets" at the time I repower?

Are there other options to get my beloved '67 (daily driver) back on the
road? My Boy Scout Troop really needs this thing back in the pink for an
event in early December.
Any advice, suggestions, help, are most gratefully accepted.

Thanks,
Doug Roach
Miami
mailto:djroach ix.netcom.com

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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:30:21 EST
From: FORDTRKNUT aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - "Shunt" wire?

I have searched the archives to no avail about the "shunt wire" to get the AMP
guage to work on my 1979 Bronco. I really would like to know what my
alternator is doing using the stock gauges. If possible.....could someone do
a TECH article on it? Thanks In Advance!! Wayne Grabley
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:58:53 EST
From: WSteinbroo aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Looking for Wiring diagram 72 F100

Anyone out thert that knows a loaction to find an online wiring diagram for 72
F100 please let me know. Have had problems with over charging and eletrical
surges. To date I have replaced my regulator and alternator three times with
no luck. Had eletical system checked and it was ok. I know the wiring under
the hood from the alt to regulator are correct per chiltons. I was
recommended by local dealer to get my hand on old ford shiop manual or a
wiring diagram to check the wiring. Yes checked the fusable links all ok.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:20:56 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question

Sounds like the wrong rod bearings. Did you plastiguage them?

- ----------
From: Matthew R. Schwartz
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question
Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:39 AM

Now with the pistons and rods and crank installed, I cannot turn the engine
over with the heads removed. I am about to remove the piston/rod set from
the crank to start over and investigate.

Is this prudent, or is there something else I should check prior to
disassembly?

Thanks!

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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:26:17 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question

If I recall correctly it's supposed to be 5-8 ft. lbs per piston/rod
assembly installed.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question
> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 3:02 AM
>
> With vibration damper in place or flywheel you should be able to get some

> movement by hand but the easiest way is to install the damper bolt and
use a
> breaker bar. With this set up it should move fairly easily, maybe 20-30
ft/lbs
> of effort.
>
>
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:05:35 EST
From: WSteinbroo aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine rebuild Question

sure they are right bearing size may have given you oversize mioc them along
with surface good luck
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:38:23 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sway Bars

I'm jumping in here a little bit late on this swaybar discussion, but I went
through several iterations until I found the "setup" that I wanted on my 69
F-100 4x4, but converted over to the F-250 running gear. I went with the stock
78-79 Bronco sway bar for the front, but due to the 4" lift, had to modify the
frame brackets to drop down a corresponding amount, plus drill holes in the
frame. For the rear setup, I used the Hellwig bar, but chucked all the Mickey
Mouse mounting hardware they supply. I found a junked mid-to-late 70's crew
cab F-250 that had a rear swaybar stock, but smaller in diameter, and grabbed
all the brackets. I modified the frame brackets again as in the front, then
bought the urethane parts for the 1" Hellwig bar, and it all bolted right up,
except of course, holes had to be drilled in the frame. The stock bracket
setup is a lot cleaner than the Hellwig mounting kit.

If anyone wants more details, please let me know....

Colorado Jeff

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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:38:17 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Headers vs. Exhaust Manifolds

Hey everyone,

Just trying to catch up on my lists here after being in China for about 10
days. Thought some here might be interested to know that Ford seems to be
selling cars there, particularly something called a "Transit"....a mid-sized
mini van....

Anyway, I've been running headers on my 4x4 for many years, and am thinking
about switching back to stock exhaust manifolds and dual exhaust while
installing the 428 engine. I was hoping to get a quick idea from people as to
whether they think the headers really make THAT much difference in the low
(less than 3000 RPM) range....its just that the stock manifold are so simple
and take up so much less room than the headers....

Colorado Jeff






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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:38:29 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - hood latch

Hey John,

I have a 77 with the same spring problem, just found a new spring at the
junkyard.....seems like once it goes sideways once, you're shot out of the
saddle...hope all is well with you!

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:38:36 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Weatherstripping

Couldn't resist this one....stay away from the JCW weather stripping (at least
the rubber door stripping)....it cracks and falls apart in about a year or
two....at least this has been my experience. However, JCW does have some other
things that are OK, I'm getting ready to get a set of front fenders
soon...might take a chance with them.....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:56:17 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - eliminate carrier bearing?

I know we talked about this not too long ago, but some of us with the older
trucks with longbeds have the split rear drive shafts, in other words, there
is a carrier bearing and extra u-joint. I've noticed on the 77-1/2 and up
F-250 4x4's (married transfer case), there is only the single shaft....

Since I'm swapping in a 205 for my little Dana 20 (or 21, can never remember)
and have to modify the drivelines anyway, why not just skip the carrier
bearing setup and make it the one-driveshaft setup?

Colorado Jeff


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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:56:27 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear brake cable

I've found that brake cables from the later models will work....I started by
trying one from the junkyard then getting the new one...

Good luck,

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:22:30 -0800
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: NP435

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Eric Donaldson wrote:
>
> The NP435 in my '66 Merc 250 has ratios of 6.68,3.34,1.79, and 1. We've
> all heard the 4 speeds with a super low first gear described as having a
> "bull" low or "granny" gear. Recently I heard an NP 435 described as
> having a "double" low. I didn't understand until I looked closely at the
> ratios; first is exactly double the reduction of second. I think the T18
> has this as well, although the T19 and the modern 5 speeds do not. Is
> this feature just an arithmetical coincidence? Also,the '71 Chilton's
> says the 435 is a 5 speed with second gear removed. Can I easily add a
> gear to the 4 speed? Any experts out there?

I was reading a really old service manual the other day (Chilton's or
Motors truck manual) and it said the 435 was essentially a cut down
version of a 5-speed transmission for medium-heavy trucks, called the
535 I think. I believe it is 2nd gear that is missing out of the 435.
This is why the step is so big from 1st to 2nd. It doesn't really
matter much with a pickup which almost never runs near its powertrain
capacity, and you can start from 2nd anyway.

The reason I like the 435 is the very short throw of the shifter handle
(for a truck 4 speed that is).

Birken
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:23:32 EST
From: OldTrux aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear brake cable

In a message dated 10/30/98 6:27:10 PM Central Standard Time, patb sonic.net
writes:

> So, what do you do when you park your '91 now?
I didn't mean to imply I removed them from my 91. I went to the parts store
and bought cables for a 91 and installed them on my 66! ( My wife HATES when I
take parts off her truck - especially brake parts, steering parts, .......)
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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:58:48 -0600
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: nomex/Uniboby Big Window?

>I'm just kinda wondering how to tell a _big window_ from a _little
>Window_?
The big window is bigger than the small window.

Oh yeah, I guess you knew that and I'm just a smart a** (keepin' it clean!).

The big back window really wraps around like a rear windshield. It really
helps vision when pulling into traffic.
I've had people ask me if I put that window in myself. Nope. Mr. Ford did.

Bill replied
Well I guess mine is a small window then. Sounds like that big window is real nice. Maybe when I buy
my third early 60s Effy I'll look for one. (SWMBO says, next project will be Mustang for her, I said
'fine. but you can't borrow my tools' )
Thanks
Bill


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Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:12:51 -0600
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - where are casting numbers on 351C?

Just got the 351C pulled out of the old junker it was in, now I need to know where to look for casting
numbers so I can more positively identify this engine.....


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