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>From kpayne ford-trucks.com Mon Oct 12 06:16:50 1998
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:16:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V2 #482
Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com


61-79-list-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 482



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - (Expletive Deleted) Flywheel
FTE 61-79 - Run-In
FTE 61-79 - Turn signal problems/Front Axle Question
FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79- 71 Engine Question
FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK ADDITION
FTE 61-79 - Tweety Flies!
FTE 61-79 - Late Stuff
FTE 61-79 - Mr. Fomoco
FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again
Re: FTE 61-79 - Tweety Flies!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again
FTE 61-79 - power steering
FTE 61-79 - Help
Re: FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again
Re: FTE 61-79 - ! #$%!* Flywheel...
Re: FTE 61-79 - ! #$%!* Flywheel...
Re: FTE 61-79 - Mr. Fomoco
FTE 61-79 - Exhaust
FTE 61-79 - Belt Accessory Fab&Mounting

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:59:13 -0400
From: The Neighbors
Subject: FTE 61-79 - (Expletive Deleted) Flywheel

Dna wrote: I know
that the starter is turning the flywheel, as I have removed the cover on
the automatic transmission and watched it turn... I do also know that
it
isn't turning the crank; none of the belts are turning... :( One of
the
monkeys up at Kragen thought that perhaps I managed to sheer the
flywheel
off of the crankshaft. Possible??"

Some years ago I had the opportunity to get out the big toolbox and
help out a family passing through my area. Their F150 had the same
symptoms. Turns out the 6 bolts holding the flexplate to the crank had
worked loose and had fallen out. I found 3 that weren't buggered up
beyond recognition, and after slathering them heavily with Loc-tite, I
was able to reinstall them and send them on their way. You ought to try
doing this with a couple of Ford's good old bottle jacks to hold up the
tranny while you are trying to fit tools and fingers up behind the crank
to re-attach everything!
They made it the rest of the way to Dearborn (I live in Kentucky)
without a hitch, but I believe they had to run a thread chaser through
the other three holes on the end of the crank so they could install all
six brand new bolts. Those things are coated with a Loc-tite compound
from the factory, and theoretically can only be used once.


- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
inaccessible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:08:22 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Run-In

> Yeah, that's kind of the reason I was asking. I'm being paranoid about how
> I broke in my cam. The motor fired right away, and I ran it at 1200-1500
> rpm, while varying rpm, for about 15 minutes, but then I had to shut it off
> to address a water leak. I restarted it and ran it in some more. It never
> sat at idle more than the couple of minutes it took to time it and adjust
> the carb.
>
> Actually, I doubt that I screwed it up, but I'll find out today. He has to
> take the intake off and fix an oil leak. I'll have him pull a lifter or two
> and see if I have any flat lobes.

I doubt that you hurt a thing. That's really a much better way to run
in the rings and wrist pins anyway. I'd let it run at 1800 to 2000 for
a few minutes, then idle it down to about 1200 and gently rev it up and
down from 1200 to 2200 to set the rings. I know what the cam
instructions say, but I've been doing it this way for a long time and
never encountered any trouble.

It's one of those deals where a compromise is in order, the rings and
wrist pins need varying speed for the first few minutes, the cam needs
constant rpm, so you just have to do a little of both without too much
of either.
- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:12:06 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Turn signal problems/Front Axle Question

Hi Geoff,

Hope I can help a little here with your axle questions. I recently updated my
69' F-100 4x4 to the highboy 76' F-250 4x4 stuff. I'm not sure if they will
work. First thing, measure the space between the spring perches on both axles.
I'm not sure if they are the same. If you have the capability to cut off and
move spring perches, then you should be able to handle it. Also, I think the
highboys came with 2-1/4" springs and I think yours are 3" wide. Another
thing, check out the gear ratios! If the F-250 gear ratio is different, I
don't know if the gears from the highboy front will fit into your reverse-
rotation axle. Several on this list can help with this question, but the
highboys have the front driveshaft coming into pumpkin below centerline, while
yours is above centerline.

The Dana pumpkin is much bigger than the 9" axle, so you might have to have
your driveline shortened. I don't know about the U-joint sizes, you'll just
have to check them out.



As far as the front axle, you are in luck. The highboy Dana 44 parts from the
spindle out will bolt right onto your 76 F-150 axle. You'll need to make all
new brake lines. The stock F-250's came with two front lines coming from the
brake pressure distribution valve (I can't remember the proper name here, but
its the unit mounted on the inside of the frame below the driver with all the
brake lines hooked into it). This valve is the same for the F-100s and F-250s,
its just that the F-100's used a brass plug on one of the front outlets. You
should just be able to remove this plug and hook up the new lines, routing
them like the F-250.You'll also need to change the stub axles to accomodate
the larger highboy hubs. You won't be able to easily change the entire front
axles since the mounting is so different.

Have you considered just putting your entire F-100 body on the F-250
frame?????

Might be the way to go!

Hope this helps a little....

Colorado Jeff


2)I have a Dana 44 front axle and Ford 9" in the rear. I have the
opportunity to get a junked '76 F250 for FREE with a Dana 60 rear end and
another 360 engine that I don't want or need, as well as some salvageable
body and accesory parts. My questiona are these: To do a rear axle swap:
a)Will the axle line up with the transfer case?? b)Is the front axle on the
Dana 44 the same size on my 1/2 ton as the 3/4 ton Dana 44? Is swapping
over to the 8 bolt hole rim as easy as getting a front brake rotor and hub
assembly from an F250 and putting it on? I realize calipers and other
things may be different, but are any modification required??
Thanks for your help!!!!
Geoff Peters
Kingston, New Brunswick, Canada
r342 unb.c
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:12:54 EDT
From: OakMeadow aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 61-79- 71 Engine Question

Harvey,
I believe that the v-8s offered for 71 were a 302 (small block) and a 360 (big
block). I have a 360 in my 72. I believe they also offered an I-6 but I
don't recall the cubic inches.
- Ferg
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:16:49 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK ADDITION

Assuming for a moment you have single exhaust.....One of the tank options
you can use to mount underneath between the frame rails on the left side
under and slightly behind the cab is a 78 F250 regular or crew cab tank. I
know this because it is what I used on a 69 F350. .....and it fits almost
perfect.
Common FTE sense should tell us that if 78 is good , 73-79 should be good
as well. You may be able to use any under-cab tank in this range on yours.
Now......if you really want to go first class, you can even mount another
tank over the rear axle housing. Although many tanks will probably work
just as good, the one I found to fit well was from an 85 F250.
And don't worry about the tank if it has an extra hose or 2 on it or the
sending unit connection. If you dont want to use them to remove vapors,
etc. it is not required on your 68 and they can plugged off.
You should be able to get the mid-cab tank or the back one for that matter
for around $50 each. Dont forget to tell the
bonehead,......sorry......excuse me........boneyard manager to, PLEASE
DON'T CUT THE STRAPS ! You will need every one of them.
Now.......back to the real world. The exh pipe on the left side has to be
addressed. Just a suggestion since I never had to deal with it on mine
but, what if you had a muffler shop fabricate an intermediate pipe around
the newly mounted mid-cab tank? ? ? This could give you the clearance
around the tank and let you keep the rest of the system intact.


> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:08:54 -0500
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Gas tank relocation

I have a 68 F100 longbed 2wd pickup and want to move the gas tank out of
my cab and under the bed. Does anyone know what tank i could use to mount
under my bed somewhere? It has dual exhaust and the toolbox/storage area on
the passenger side. but i would rather do it myself and save
some money. Any suggestions?
>
> Shawn Donkin
> donkin wnm.net

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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:44:19 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tweety Flies!

Well, folks, I was finally able to get Tweety out to the dunes for the first
time this weekend. man it handles great! I was flyin down the washboards at
speeds around 50 without a hitch. It was the slow stuff that caused the
problems. Seems the Holley 750 DP doesn't like to be bounced, as it would
flood and die if I didn't have it wide open. Oh well, just another reason to
convert to Holley Pro-Jection. But that is gonna happen much later. Only
other hitches I encountered were not being able to stat on top of the Sand
(time for a Lock-Right) and I hit a rock at about 65 and knocked my front tire
off the bead. (time for the 16.5's to take a hike). But I tell you what it
was one hell of a weekend.

Darrell Duggan aka JUMPINFORD AOL.com
74 F-350 RangerXLT Super Camper Special "Tweety"
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 18:45:25 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Late Stuff

> I have been using my 71 f250 to drive my friend around while we try to
> figure out what's wrong with his 95 jeep wrangler (some on topic subject
> matter ;)) I figure i should go to the source of all gearhead
> knowledge--this list!!
> it seems to have a possible timing problem- totally lacks power over
> 2500-300 rpm in all gears. i have narrowed it to this beacuse i
> have already replaced cap, rotor, wires plugs and
> coil (all were on the way out), and cleaned the throttle body several
> times with carb cleaner and put fuel injector cleaner in and checked the
> fule filter

There's only one thing I'd suggest checking without going any further.
Check the exhaust to see if it's restricted (plugged catalytic
converter), that's what the problem sounds like to me.

My advice on any computer controlled vehicle is to do one of two things.

1. Find someone who has the proper tools and information to fix it, and
expect to pay him fairly for his time and investment in the technology
required.

2. Invest in a top-quality up to date scantool, and a top-quality
digital circuit meter that is capable of reading waveforms. Snap-On
makes both and keeps them up to date with the latest changes. Invest in
a comprehensive up to date information system that uses tree type of
interface. Mitchell On-Demand is about the best on the market at the
moment IMHO. Follow the directions to the letter when testing
circuits. This all-together is about $20,000, plus updates.

Sounds terrible doesn't it? You can't shadetree this late-model stuff,
the parts are too expensive to throw at a problem. The problem has to be
completely isolated before you start changing anything. There are
specific procedures to follow to diagnose driveability problems. If you
know what you are looking for and at, you can fix a problem. If you
don't, you wont fix a thing and will probably screw up something
else(and spend alot of money).

- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:43:21 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Mr. Fomoco

I tried unsuccessfully at getting linked to "Mr. Fomoco" so I could have a
parts search done. Does anyone have an internet address for someone who can do
a Ford parts search?

I'm looking for a "428" emblem, part number C7AZ 16228-A.

Thanks!

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:25:43 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again

> I've had FEs for 20 years and never bent a pushrod or done any other
> damage and I have reved the #$% out of them.
> I'll have say it again,if you don't like EFs don't buy one but don't
> bad mouth them.Some of us are quite fond of Ford's finest engine.
> They didn't build them for 18 years because they were junk,now did
> they?Ford has made a few mistakes in the past,but the FE isn't one of
> them.

I've bent a few, but I was being stupid when I did it.

Gary was only kidding, man. I can't imagine any of us excluding any
engine Ford made from adoration. They were all good designs and still
do a fine days work today. We are charged with their care and feeding,
and sometimes their clean up. They all wear out and break, but every
design can be economically rebuilt into a state as good as they were
new. They are all good, but they all have their weaknesses. Some are
lighter and suited for lighter use, and others are heavier and suited
for abuse. The 460 is a heavyweight, made for hard work and can be made
into a hard running engine with a few touches. The FE is more of a
cruiser-weight, 100 lbs lighter and fewer cubes. They can do a fine
days work too, about as much as a 460 can do. But it's like comparing a
quarter-horse to a mule, their lifespan under the harshest conditions,
in a pack or draft application will be less. It would have to be, the
horse(the FE) will have to work alot harder than the mule (the 460)to
do the same work.

Am I going to put a 460 in my '65 F250? I wouldn't dream of it, it
doesn't belong there anymore than an FE belongs in an '84. I won't be
working it to the point that power will ever be an issue. If I were, I
wouldn't be using up a '65, I'd wear out a newer truck and save the old
one.

I think that they are both great engines, and worthy of respect. They
both have a strong heritage in trucks, and will into the next century.
That is a legacy no one can ignore, two engines on the drawing bouard
within ten years of one another, and still working 40+ years later,
doing work that the competition gave up to diesels long ago.
I was just chasing Gary around with the flamethrower because he makes
this cute little wheezing sound when he runs.


- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 18:02:22 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Tweety Flies!

From: Darrell Duggan
>problems. Seems the Holley 750 DP doesn't like to be bounced, as it
would
>flood and die if I didn't have it wide open. Oh well, just another
reason to
>convert to Holley Pro-Jection.

I hope you don't mind if I put my 2 cents in Darrell. No Holley's
don't like to be bounced, they also don't like turning. Holley's work
best when their kept level. The Holley Pro-Jection 4D starts around
$1300.00 and by the time your finished you'll easily be over $2000.00.
IMHO,TBI is a glorified carburetor. I admit it works good but not good
enough to be worth $2000.00, more if you go 4Di, plus you'd need a
laptop to program the controller. Take the base price of $1300.00 going
carburetor and you have the best there is and money in your pocket.
Anyway the Holley is the wrong carb for what your doing. Try using an
Edelbrock or a Carter and I think you'll be much happier.

Later!

Deacon
deconblu gte.net http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
==============================================
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm
==============================================




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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:10:39 -0500
From: "Dennis Witthuhn"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again

- -----Original Message-----
From: William L Ballinger
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, October 11, 1998 7:28 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again


>> I've had FEs for 20 years and never bent a pushrod or done any other
>> damage and I have reved the #$% out of them.
>> I'll have say it again,if you don't like EFs don't buy one but don't
>> bad mouth them.Some of us are quite fond of Ford's finest engine.
>> They didn't build them for 18 years because they were junk,now did
>> they?Ford has made a few mistakes in the past,but the FE isn't one of
>> them.
>
>I've bent a few, but I was being stupid when I did it.
>
>Gary was only kidding, man. I can't imagine any of us excluding any
>engine Ford made from adoration. They were all good designs and still
>do a fine days work today. We are charged with their care and feeding,
>and sometimes their clean up. They all wear out and break, but every
>design can be economically rebuilt into a state as good as they were
>new. They are all good, but they all have their weaknesses. Some are
>lighter and suited for lighter use, and others are heavier and suited
>for abuse. The 460 is a heavyweight, made for hard work and can be made
>into a hard running engine with a few touches. The FE is more of a
>cruiser-weight, 100 lbs lighter and fewer cubes. They can do a fine
>days work too, about as much as a 460 can do. But it's like comparing a
>quarter-horse to a mule, their lifespan under the harshest conditions,
>in a pack or draft application will be less. It would have to be, the
>horse(the FE) will have to work alot harder than the mule (the 460)to
>do the same work.
>well put. likewise the 400 in my 79 is a real workhorse. its not a drag
engine by any means but it will push,pull,or drag anything you care to. i
have also had over 4 tons of sand and gravel on the back and it never even
grunted. the gmc i used to have strained with only a ton, lol. i think that
says it all guys
>Am I going to put a 460 in my '65 F250? I wouldn't dream of it, it
>doesn't belong there anymore than an FE belongs in an '84. I won't be
>working it to the point that power will ever be an issue. If I were, I
>wouldn't be using up a '65, I'd wear out a newer truck and save the old
>one.
>
>I think that they are both great engines, and worthy of respect. They
>both have a strong heritage in trucks, and will into the next century.
>That is a legacy no one can ignore, two engines on the drawing bouard
>within ten years of one another, and still working 40+ years later,
>doing work that the competition gave up to diesels long ago.
>I was just chasing Gary around with the flamethrower because he makes
>this cute little wheezing sound when he runs.
>
>
>--
>Come on over to my Back Porch
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
>Ballinger
>ballingr ldd.net
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:11:17 -0500
From: "ben"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - power steering

I have a '79 F-150 4X4 that I'm attempting to fix up. I was trying to bleed
the power steering today and ran into a problem. I jacked up the front end
and fired it up, the reservoir would go empty. So while it was running I
added the fluid, after a while white smoke started to come out the exhaust
( different problem) so I shut it off. The fluid started to pour out of the
previously empty reservoir. It was like a pink milk shake! I got my dad to
help me the second time around. I would turn the wheel while he added the
fluid. Same thing happened. So the question is, what am I doing wrong? What
would cause this?


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:24:36 -0400
From: "Kenny Realph"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Help

Hello guys,
I read (Listen) alot but don't write (say) alot. but so far I have all inf.
on the forum very good. I had a question for yall.:
I've got a 240 and have the opportunity to get a 251 Cleveland was wondering
what it took to convert to it. My truck is a 66 F100 2wd. 4 speed with
granny low. any info would be good.
thank you all.

Kenny Realph

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:01:57 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Load the Grapeshot, It's 460 vs FE Again

Thanks for reposting this for us Dennis. Was there a reason you felt
we should read it again? Did I miss something that you wished to add or
have a question on? Just the same, it always good to read one of Bill's
messages. There are times I read them twice just because.
Thanks again!
:)

Deacon
deconblu gte.net http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
==============================================
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm
==============================================




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:39:06 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ! #$%!* Flywheel...

some of the ford flex plates have been known to break out around the bolts,
this is probably what happened
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:42:43 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ! #$%!* Flywheel...

one other thing, most ford flexplates i've seen have an extra plate for the
bolt holes
and the ones i've seen cracked did not have this extra piece, i'm not sure if
all of them had it from the factory or not.
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:55:15 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Mr. Fomoco

i have a set of old ford parts books, the part number you gave was for 1967,
what kind of vehicle is it for? i can look it up.

jeff grant
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:03:21 -0500
From: Rick Sullivan
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Exhaust

I have a 78 F250 Supercab from Texas, it has dual exhaust with glasspacks and then
approx 4' tubes which seem to be randomly crimped. The sound is really great,
anyone have any idea what the crimped tubes are?....

---

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