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>From kpayne ford-trucks.com Fri Oct 9 06:11:35 1998
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:11:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V2 #478
Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com


61-79-list-digest Friday, October 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 478



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
majordomo ford-trucks.com
with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list-digest" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Speech Assignment/He SHould be Whipped!!!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Speech Assignment/He SHould be Whipped!!!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Spring noise
FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold
FTE 61-79 - RESISTOR WIRE PROJECT
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold
FTE 61-79 - Chrome Removal?
FTE 61-79 - valves and smoke
FTE 61-79 - Sawdust tires
[none]
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold
FTE 61-79 - Differentials...
Re: FTE 61-79 - Differentials...
FTE 61-79 - Re:
FTE 61-79 - Gas tank relocation
Re: FTE 61-79 - Wierd thingy
FTE 61-79 - 351c spark plugs
FTE 61-79 - REAR AXLE LOCK NUT SOCKET
Re: FTE 61-79 - re: 61 power brakes
FTE 61-79 - `78 F250 starter problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351c spark plugs

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:07:59 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Speech Assignment/He SHould be Whipped!!!!

Date sent: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:07:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: "P.J. Warren"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Speech Assignment/He SHould be Whipped!!!!

> those who have helped me, I thank you very much. I'm sorry if I have
> upset anyone and next time I will make sure that it is more specifically
> Ford Truck related.

If Deacon and I are still here you have nothing to worry about :-) The only
thing that's really illegal is off color or ethnic jokes or comments and "real"
flames (shame on you Joe :-)) etc.. Truck content is highly encouraged
however :-) (very highly)

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:10:46 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Speech Assignment/He SHould be Whipped!!!!

From: sdelanty sonic.net
Date sent: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:00:40 -0700
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Speech Assignment/He SHould be Whipped!!!!

> Aww, don't be pissed, just relax and take it in stride. You're not the
> first one to get blasted for that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I think I'm about the only one who has "never" been flamed........:-)
That's because I'm always right :-)

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:15:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Spring noise

Date sent: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:18:28 -0500
From: Jim Pitcock
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Spring noise

> Any ideas on how to silence the clutch pedal spring.

Spring noise is almost always the attachment points not moving smoothely
and creating a vibration picked up by the spring. Lube the ends of the spring
and see what happens :-)

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:50:11 -0400
From: Mike Elmer
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

Hi again all,Well I'm in the home strech of my 360 rebuild,I've located
a 4bbl manifold off a 390 and I've got a couple questions.a)Their is a
spout 5" tall on the front that looks to be a place to add oil my 2bbl
manifold dosn't have that you add oil through the valve cover,b)Their is
a oil deflector on the bottom,the manifold was in the weather for far to
long upside down.I've had it bead blasted and painted and the deflector
it quite rotted,can I leave it off or use it or try to replace it.Thanks
in advance to all. Mike
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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:15:49 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

>Hi again all,Well I'm in the home strech of my 360 rebuild,I've located
>a 4bbl manifold off a 390 and I've got a couple questions.a)Their is a
>spout 5" tall on the front that looks to be a place to add oil my 2bbl
>manifold dosn't have that you add oil through the valve cover,b)Their is
>a oil deflector on the bottom,the manifold was in the weather for far to
>long upside down.I've had it bead blasted and painted and the deflector
>it quite rotted,can I leave it off or use it or try to replace it.Thanks
>in advance to all. Mike


I've never seen this fill spout before, so I can't really help you out
there, what year(s) are the engine and intake ? Apparently the intake is
considerably older or newer than the engine. I used a 65 390 4V and
everything bolted up fine. As for the oil deflector, from what I've seen
aftermarket companies don't often put this deflector on, so I don't see why
you couldn't run without it. Besides it'll shave a couple ounces off that
lovely manifold ;)

As for the fill spout, never seen it, but have to wonder if its for
something else entirely ...

Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Trucks/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/Cars/mustang.html
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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:30:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

Date sent: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:50:11 -0400
From: Mike Elmer
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

> deflector on the bottom,the manifold was in the weather for far to long

I don't know if you can get this part separately but you might try the ford
dealer for it. The other option is the full valley pan, intake gasket but I'm not
sure if FelPro makes one for the FE. You need the deflector to keep the oil
from overheating the manifold. The deflector is held on with "Brads" which
are simply tapped in with a hammer and pried out to be replaced etc.. You
can tap these holes for a 1/4-20 screw if you like but locktite the threads
when you intall it and make sure the threads are completely dry, inside and
out so the locktite works. If you use brads, make sure they tap in with a firm
grip so they won't fall out.

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:47:18 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RESISTOR WIRE PROJECT

Bob -
Yes the 72 should have the wire too. Its an easy conversion to make. I
did it when I upgraded my 69 350 harness to a 73 250 harness and upgraded
to a 77 351 in 86. 10-4 ?
If you need some help with the hookup you can reply to the list or
privately.
Again, many thanks to Mike Schwall for the pix and info pages on this type
of ignition system furnished previously when I had the same questions.
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW AC
1970 F100 (ret)



> I have a 72 Ford F100 and swapped the 6 cyl for a 77 400
> and the electronic distributor and ignition box. Does the 72
> have the resistor wire you are talking about? Someone told
> me it did and that I would have to make sure I wired the
> ignition to a 12 volt source and not the one from the resistor because
that would be 6 volt.
> Thanks
> Bobby Herring

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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:48:24 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

>I don't know if you can get this part separately but you might try the ford
>dealer for it. The other option is the full valley pan, intake gasket but
I'm not
>sure if FelPro makes one for the FE.

I guess I don't know what you mean by this ? When I took my FE apart it
had both the pan under the intake, and a metal tray that sat in the valley,
I figured this was normal, but still leaves me wondering why you need the
one under the intake ?


You need the deflector to keep the oil
>from overheating the manifold.

Again this goes back to the aftermarket, is it because they're using
aluminum that they don't think they need it ? I would think this would
make it worse not better. Also wondering how the oil would cause it to
overheat since it has coolant flowing through it and an exhaust passage as
well (I'm sure everyone's exhaust flapper is working perfectly too :)


The deflector is held on with "Brads" which
>are simply tapped in with a hammer and pried out to be replaced etc.. You
>can tap these holes for a 1/4-20 screw if you like but locktite the threads
>when you intall it and make sure the threads are completely dry, inside and
>out so the locktite works. If you use brads, make sure they tap in with a
firm
>grip so they won't fall out.
>
Yikes, I can't imagine the noises if one of these got worked in near a
lifter ....


If I come off sounding like an idiot or argumentative, I apologize ahead of
time, I just really want to know how all this stuff in the engine is
working together, I'm still amazed that motors even run after I saw the
pressure graphs from an engine at idle. So if I'm startin to get to you
I'm sorry, I'm just curious, not trying to tick you off.

Laters
Bill
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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:18:34 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Chrome Removal?

I remember a big discussion about chemicals several months ago, and there were
some people that seemed to have a background in chemistry....that's why I was
hoping someone would have a suggestion on if there is a chemical available
that will remove chrome from a set of semi-rusty rims. Maybe something to just
etch it so it can be painted?

Maybe sandblasting is the way to go?

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:26:38 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - valves and smoke

I guess I'm thick headed this morning. How can an exhaust leak cause a
backfire?

My thoughts:
Burnt or otherwise not sealing intake valves (ie. wrong timing, ignition or
valve) will allow the fuel mixture in the intake maniflod to ignite. Now
that's a backfire! Where'd that fire extinguisher go?

A stopped up exhaust system as in catalytic converter or crushed tailpipe
end will cause gases to be expelled through the intake ports due to build
up of pressure. Occasional backfires and real poor performance.

An exhaust leak will just be real noisy and depending on the location allow
carbon monoxide in the cab with you. Honey, you look a little blue around
the edges.

A rich mixture will allow basically raw fuel to go into the exhaust system
particularly when coasting and vacuum is at max. Heat and/or leaking
exhaust valves can ignite this mixture causing a backfire out the tailpipe.
This is also what explodes mufflers.

In every case that I know of, there is some abnormality that causes the
backfire. What am I missing?

On smoke:

Feel the inside of your tailpipe when it is cold with the engine off. Black
oily residue means you are burning oil. Black dry residue means you are
running a rich fuel mixture. Dry black or dark gray residue is normal for
catalytic converter systems as is water dripping out of your tailpipe. Dry
chalky white or light gray residue means you are running about as perfect
as you can get with no catalytic converter.

BTW, true duals let you isolate such problems to the offending bank or
cylinder group. Don't want to forget you I6 fans.

- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, only one dent left from the crash
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:37:11 -0600
From: "Richard Currit"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sawdust tires

Hey Tony
Well I checked last night and that is the same size of tire I'm running =
right now. But one of the joys of today's all season radials is not =
having to have your tires switched every spring and fall. And them =
sawdust tires don't hold up on dry pavement. What brand are they? I had =
seen an add for sawdusts from, I think, Yokohama? Funny how things go out =
of style and then somebody brings it back and touts it as a new invention. =
(you used to be able to also get walnut shell and garnet tires, are they =
next?). Thanks for the offer, but my tread will be good for several years =
to come.=20
High Plains Richard
72 F-100 =20

>Yo Richard!

>Ha ha ha, that's great! My truck I bought a couple months ago (70 4x4) =
>had
>a brand new set of those little things on it! I had never seen/heard of
>them before then. If you really like them that much make me an offer!
>235/75 R15. =20

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:00:45 -0700
From: "Brodie, Doug"
Subject: [none]

Hi All. I tried to send this earlier but I don't think I got through.
Thanks for the replies! If there is anyone else out there wondering what I
was wondering, I did see a '78 F250 with both dual tanks and the right side
tool
box. It all looked factory to me but I wasn't able to talk to the owner.
Anybody got one in good shape for sale?

P.S. I'm new to this type of communication - What does............ == FTE:
Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html................ at
the end of a post mean or do?

Thanks. Brodie d'~'b
'79 F250 SC 4X4
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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:41:03 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

Date sent: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:48:24 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 manifold

> I guess I don't know what you mean by this ? When I took my FE apart it
> had both the pan under the intake, and a metal tray that sat in the
> valley, I figured this was normal, but still leaves me wondering why you
> need the one under the intake ?

I haven't looked inside an FE in a long time but some engines I've seen had
steel valley pans separate from the intake gaskets. The FE routed oil to the
lifter gallery and back down into the crank but most engines route oil from
the pump, through the crank and then up to the lifter gallery. Cold oil comes
from the pan, picks up heat from the crank which is the engine's largest and
highest capacity heat sink and then through the rods and lifter gallerys where
it picks up more heat. By the time it splashes against the bottom of the
manifold it is near it's highest temp in the oil cycle and drains back into the
pan to be cooled by the thin sheet metal of the pan which is exposed to
outside air etc..

The oil at that point is much hotter than the coolant in the manifold and
directly splashes against the runner bottoms so there is a direct transfer of
heat into the runners in addition to any other heat sources in the area. The
exhaust crossover is relatively small and is routed to the plenum to create the
"hot spot" directly under the carb so isn't as serious a heat source but does
add to the BTU's which must be carried away by the coolant and air flowing
over the manifold.

One of the reasons FE's have valley pans it to catch the push rods when they
bend and fall out :-)

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:48:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Differentials...

About draining and refilling differentials...
How do I know whether I have a Ford locking or non slip differential or
not? Manual says to look on door sticker, which is ripped off by now.
Thanks.....

Justin Farcas --


MOTHER, TELL YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO WALK MY WAY
TELL YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO HEAR MY WORDS
WHAT THEY MEAN, WHAT THEY SAY
MOTHER

MOTHER
CAN YOU KEEP THEM IN THE DARK FOR LIFE
CAN YOU HIDE THEM FROM THE WAITING WORLD
OH MOTHER

FATHER
GONNA TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER OUT TONIGHT
GONNA SHOW HER MY WORLD
OH FATHER

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:41:29 -0400
From: "Jay Grover"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Differentials...

Hi Justin,
Just jack your truck up so both tires are off the ground. Turn one wheel by
hand. If the other wheel turns the same direction, its a locking (non-slip)
differential. If the other wheel turns the opposite direction its an open
differential.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Justin Farcas
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 1:54 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Differentials...


>About draining and refilling differentials...
>How do I know whether I have a Ford locking or non slip differential or
>not? Manual says to look on door sticker, which is ripped off by now.
>Thanks.....
>
> Justin Farcas --
>
>
> MOTHER, TELL YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO WALK MY WAY
> TELL YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO HEAR MY WORDS
> WHAT THEY MEAN, WHAT THEY SAY
> MOTHER
>
> MOTHER
> CAN YOU KEEP THEM IN THE DARK FOR LIFE
> CAN YOU HIDE THEM FROM THE WAITING WORLD
> OH MOTHER
>
> FATHER
> GONNA TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER OUT TONIGHT
> GONNA SHOW HER MY WORLD
> OH FATHER
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:39:00 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:

At 10:00 AM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi All. I tried to send this earlier but I don't think I got through.
>Thanks for the replies! If there is anyone else out there wondering what I
>was wondering, I did see a '78 F250 with both dual tanks and the right side
>tool
>box. It all looked factory to me but I wasn't able to talk to the owner.
>Anybody got one in good shape for sale?
>
>P.S. I'm new to this type of communication - What does............ == FTE:
>Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html................ at
>the end of a post mean or do?
>
>Thanks. Brodie d'~'b
>'79 F250 SC 4X4


Its there because I used to get 5-10 emails a day asking how to
uns*bscribe from the list or how to post. The reason the word
uns*bscribe has an asterisk is because our server will reject any
posting with the word in it so I add the asterisk.

Ken Payne
Admin

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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:08:54 -0500
From: Shawn
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Gas tank relocation

Hi,

I have a 68 F100 longbed 2wd pickup and want to move the gas tank out of
my cab and
under the bed. Does anyone know what tank i could use to mount under my
bed somewhere? It has dual exhaust and the toolbox/storage area on the
passenger side.So i
assume behind the rearend or driver side is the only options if it will
infact fit on the driver
side. I'm aware of kits you can buy to do move it frrom the cab, but i
would rather do it
myself and save some money. Any suggestions?

Shawn Donkin
donkin wnm.net

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:01:47 EDT
From: OldTrux aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Wierd thingy

In a message dated 10/7/98 12:05:08 AM Central Daylight Time,
sdelanty sonic.net writes:


>filter, its the same blue as the aircleaner >>
How about a canister of charcoal between the gas tank vent and air cleaner to
burn off gas fumes instead of venting them to atmosphere like with the
previous vented gas caps?
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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:28:46 -0400
From: Jack Fleming
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351c spark plugs

I've got a 351C in my '54 f100 - it definitely needs a tune up, and I don't
trust that the plugs currently in it are the right "type". You folks on
this list have considerably more experience with this type of engine than
the folks on the "pre-61" list, so could someone recommend a replacement
spark plug and give me the gap, timing, etc info? Many thanks.

Jack
'54 F100

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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:22:19 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - REAR AXLE LOCK NUT SOCKET

While we are all thinking about the fun we have had doing rear axle
bearings & stuff & socket sizes.............
does anyone know the size of the socket required for the axle nut on a
F350 dana 70 axle ? ? ? ?

Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW AC
1970 F100 (ret)

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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:10:50 -0500
From: "Nils Gore"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - re: 61 power brakes

Eldon:

I just put new brake hoses on my 64.

I got the type that bolt through the frame with big nuts. I got them from
John's F-Fun Hundreds in Anaheim, CA. 1-800-563-3151. They cost about $20
each. They also sell new nuts

I got the rear hose from AutoZone. They did not sell fronts.

Nils Gore


- ----------
>From: "eldon eversull"
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - re: 61 power brakes
>Date: Wed, Oct 7, 1998, 11:32 AM
>

>I put disk brakes and a 2 chamber master cylinder with a power booster
>on Fred (aka 64 F100, 2wd, swb) last weekend. The booster and master
>cylinder are from Master Power Brakes in NC and the disk brakes are from
>Engineering Concepts in CT. All the parts cost a lot of money (probably
>$1000) and I can't tell you how it works yet as the brake lines and
>connecting rod to the brake pedal are not hooked up.
>
>The instructions were rotten or non-existant. But everything just bolts
>up once you figure out which end is up or what is right or left. The
>hangup right now are the brake hoses. The old ones bolted to the frame
>while the new ones clip on, using clips that 3 new car dealers just
>looked dumbfounded at me when I asked to buy ones that would work. I am
>going to try to use e-clips, but don't know if they will hold.
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:51:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hogan & Associates Insurance Brokers
Subject: FTE 61-79 - `78 F250 starter problems

This is my first post to the group. My sincere thanks to Ken Payne for the
forum.

I've owned my 78 F250 since `88 when I bought it for $700. It was a
beater, but it ran. The setup is according to the VIN code: 400m; 4spd
trans; NP205; 4.1 posi-trac rear end etc.

from day one this beast would consume starters. I used to carry a spare at
all times. Eventually, I got lucky and got one that worked for two or
three years. When it died; I got a Bosch rebuilt which lasted two months.
Tired of jacking with the truck I parked it.

The truck came with the Positive Engagement Starter; and that is what I kept
buying until I noticed the shop manula calls for the Prestolite starter in
400's and 460's. So, after having the Bosch starter rebuilt and fail in 2
weeks; I have been through 3 of the rebuilt Prestolite's.

The bendix on these will woek fine when they are brand new, first installed.
The motor cranks vigorously and starts on the first rotation. Eventually
the starter will make a horrible "grunge" noise which I identify as the
bendix failing to align into the flywheel. eventually the "grunge " noise
stops and the starter just whines. 2 "new " starters go back to their parts
stores tomorrow. both bendixes will easily rotate back with minor pressure.

I have inspected the flywheel with a flashlight rotating the crank and see
no significant wear and no chipped teeth. the current motor was a long
block instal done in `90l, I think the shop would have noticed if it was
the wrong flywheel.

The one good starter I had lasted about 4 years; and all these "new " units
work fine when they are newly installed . It seems to me if the flywheel
was bad or an incorrect unit that none of these would have worked, much less
one for 4 years.

I am not using FOMOCO starter bolts; they are hardened automotive bolts.
it may be that all these rebuilt startes are just junk. Anyone know of a
good source for a new, American made starter?

The clutch seems just fine; otherwise having a new clutch installed would
give quick verification as to the flywheel situation. Our trans guy quoted
me $500 for a new clutch; $300 to put on a new flywheel 2 years ago. i have
neither any trans experience or a trans bracket for my floor jack.

If there are any ideas as to what may be causing this continual starter
failure I'd sure appreciate your input.

Thanks very much,

Les Hogan
Central Texas



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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:46:25 -0600
From: BJ Tiemessen
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351c spark plugs

What year is the 351C? I have a shop manual that would have the recomended....


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