61-79-list-digest Sunday, September 27 1998 Volume 02 : Number 464



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - 1971 Ranger truck $60.00 on Ebay
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pitons and Rings
Re: FTE 61-79 - Piston Rings.....choices, choices, choices
FTE 61-79 - Assembly lubes
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Updated FAQ
Re: FTE 61-79 - Assembly lubes
FTE 61-79 - Turn signals, electrical stuff and headaches..:-(
FTE 61-79 - 68 F100 --> F250 Conversion
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: T-shirt design
FTE 61-79 - WIde ratio C-6
Re: FTE 61-79 - WIde ratio C-6
FTE 61-79 - Boss 429
Re: FTE 61-79 - Piston Rings.....choices, choices, choices
Re: FTE 61-79 - Boss 429

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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 07:33:14 -0400
From: Joe & Jen DeLaurentis
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1971 Ranger truck $60.00 on Ebay

Saw this in Ebay auction a 1971 Ranger truck $60 Bucks, no one
has bidded on it.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=31302651
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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:16:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pitons and Rings

Date sent: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: hurdj VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pitons and Rings

> Well, I *think* that piston ring rotation is primarily a result of a
> tapered cylinder.

Put a round dish or ring or any other object on a table and rap the table a few
times. The object bounces up and down but also rotates because there is
nothing controling it so that it doesn't "cock" one way or the other when it
bounces. No matter how perfect you machine all the parts there is still some
clearance out of necessity so the rings will do the same thing. Not as easily
or to the same extent but over time they will "migrate". I can't prove it, have
never tested it specifically but I know it happens, it has to.

Like I said though, the odds of any two seams lining up are astronomically
against it happening if you start them at the mathmatically least aligned
postion which would be the number of rings divided into 360 degrees apart
and no two in alignment.

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:11:14 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Piston Rings.....choices, choices, choices

Date sent: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:22:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: hurdj VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Piston Rings.....choices, choices, choices
Copies to: hurdj

> Yep! I am running the Total Seal TSS (street/strip) gapless rings in
> my F-150 (302!). The TSS type is a cast iron ring and is avail- able
> in either Moly or Chrome surfaces. The second ring is the gap- less
> ring. And I am running Total Seal's "Gold-Power" oil ring. It is a
> 3-piece low tension oil ring to reduce friction.

So the top compression ring is still a standard single ring with an end gap?
That's the only one that gets the moly anyway right?

> Total Seal reccommends that you put a restrictor in the PCV line with
> a .062" orifice, as the increased ring seal of the gapless rings can
> give you a slight increase in intake manifold vacuum, and decreased
> crankcase pressure, which causes excess flow in the PCV system. This
> excess flow will suck oil vapor and mist PCV system with out the
> restrictor. (been there, and had to do that.)

Theoretically this seems plauseable but I'm still holding my tongue in my
cheek :-) Obviously the purpose of gapless rings is to increase sealing
thereby improving vacuum and reducing blow by but the leakage in a fresh,
properly machined standard setup is very minimal to begin with and the PCV
system moves very little air in normal operation anyway with good rings so is
the difference really that great? If the PCV system crankcase air inlet is
properly filtered then the crank case is "supposed" to stay at atmospheric in
which case the restrictor won't make any difference right?

> You also should use a clamp-on style valve seals, as the decreased
> crankcase pressure tends to lift the standard type valve seals.

Really though...what causes the seals to move up? Are you saying the
vacuum in the valve covers is so great it sucks gasses through the valve
stems.....with enough energy to move the seals? I'm having trouble with this
one :-)


A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:43:37 -0500
From: "J Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Assembly lubes

>If you clean the coffee can (good idea BTW) really well you can pour the
>unused oil into the crank case when you are done so there is no waste too
:-)


but, but, but, I th-th-thought caf-f-feine was the universal addit-t-tive?
Myself, I j-j-just chew on the b-b-beans anymore and c-c-cut out the
mid-mid-mdileman.



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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:53:52 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Updated FAQ

The web site FAQ has been updated to include common problems
when posting to the lists and their solutions. If you use
Microsoft or Netscape email software, I strongly recommend
that you read these. If you experience a problem with posting
and you use Microsoft/Netscape email software and you have
not read the FAQ then you are on your own. Microsoft users
constitute 99% of my admin headaches because Microsoft products,
by default, attach binaries to emails.

If at any time you experience a problem posting or receive
an error message from our list server, read the FAQ.

>From this point forward, I will no longer answer questions
which are clearly covered in the FAQ. Last month my wife and
I put in 170 hours administering the lists and web site - this
is far too much for a simple "part-time" hobby.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:43:13 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Assembly lubes

From: "J Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Assembly lubes
Date sent: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:43:37 -0500

> >If you clean the coffee can (good idea BTW) really well you can pour the
> >unused oil into the crank case when you are done so there is no waste too

> but, but, but, I th-th-thought caf-f-feine was the universal addit-t-tive?
> Myself, I j-j-just chew on the b-b-beans anymore and c-c-cut out the
> mid-mid-mdileman.

I'm pretty bored but I think someone else may need some serious help.......:-)
I usually take these opportunities to write a book on some obscure aspect of
trucking for the entertainment of the list when they all come back from the
weekend, bleary eyed and ready to rest from their strenuous activities of the
weekend only to find they have to struggle through another of Gary's
diatribes........:-)

In fact one has just come to me so I think I'll get started..........:-)


A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:05:25 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Turn signals, electrical stuff and headaches..:-(

Weeeeeeeeeell, my signals are messed up again, darn it! I believe I'm going
to have to bite the bullet and get the painless harness for the venerable 78
bronco. The wiring is so old........(how old is it Gary?) that pin holes in the
insulation are allowing water contamination to corrode the wires inside the
insulation and I'm running into one glitch after another. First my tail lights
quit due to a broken (corroded) wire near the rear bumper, then the tail gate
key switch is only getting 2v to the plug, the fuse block is so loosened up the
busses don't make good contact anymore, then the muffler exploded due to
the same wire condition in the green ignition module wire and now the
intermittant signal problem so I'm ready to start looking into the painless way
to fix it but I want to restore the sheet metal too and with my luck I'll wind up
burning up some wires with the welder etc. so what do I do........?? :-(

I need to paint my tail gate too so I can get it on before winter and the tires
are getting pretty scary and now the transmission won't stay in third and
sometimes grinds when I try to shift, what can it be??? (just kidding, not
about the tranny, about not knowing what to do :-)) Sure wish I had a spare
NP 435 lying around.......:-( Guess I'll have to call Tom's broncos and see
what he's got so I can have one handy to rebuild etc..

Still trying to get my shop back in order after the wedding. My daughter
doesn't want me to destroy the white plastic table cloth I used to cover the
walls, she wants me to roll it up in place and attach it to the top of the
headers so we can use it for the next party.....:-( Kids.....they think all we
have to do is work on barns....what do they know anyway?? :-) I can get at
my equipment now anyway and I'm in the process of cleaning all the sand
out of my tool box from the last sand blasting exercise, still have some
switches to repair and the bath room water heater to install before the first
freeze (that's what keeps it warm in there in the winter, hopefully).

I've still got cans and drawers and piles of old bolts and parts to sort out and
put somewhere and build my book shelf and folding desk top against the
bath room wall for my manuals and then there's...........:-)

Man! I'm tired just thinking about it all. I need to retire so I can get on with
my life without the distraction of driving in here every day to put in my time!
:-)


A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:58:04 -0700
From: Jason Topor
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 68 F100 --> F250 Conversion

After over 260,000 miles, my 68 F100 2WD is in dire need of some new
suspension. I was thinking of beefing up the front end to a F250.
Acording to a TRW parts catalog, the king (bolt) pin sets, ball joints,
steering linkage, radius arm bushings, and axle pivot bushings are all
the same. Does anyone know if I will have to change and radius arms and
axles (I beams) or make any modifications to the front end of the truck.
I will consentrate on the spindles, drums, and rear leafs latter.

Thanks.

Jason

69 Cougar XR7
68 F100 (soon to be F250)
68 Shelby Gt500KR (o.k. it is really my dads!)
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:31:10 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: T-shirt design

So far I've had 3 designs sent for the Ford Truck Enthusiasts
t-shirt. Next weekend there will be a page with anonymous voting
on it. If you're working on a design, please finish it up by
the middle of next week and email it to me.

Thanks,
Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:53:32 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - WIde ratio C-6

Well folks, In the quest to find out whether or not I have the ultimate 2x, I
have one more question to ask. Can somebody tell me how to go about finding
out if the c-6 in my pickup is the wide ratio type? I'm just about to get it
on the road, (picked up a used Dana 70 for $500 today) and would just like to
know. Thanks guys.

Darrell Duggan aka JUMPINFORD AOL.com
74 F-350 RangerXLT Super Camper Special
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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:35:41 -0500
From: "kingster"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - WIde ratio C-6

The c-6 has about a 2.80:1 1st gear, a 1.70:1 2nd, and a 1:1 third (about
those ratios)

Kingster
- -----Original Message-----
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:11 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - WIde ratio C-6


>Well folks, In the quest to find out whether or not I have the ultimate 2x,
I
>have one more question to ask. Can somebody tell me how to go about
finding
>out if the c-6 in my pickup is the wide ratio type? I'm just about to get
it
>on the road, (picked up a used Dana 70 for $500 today) and would just like
to
>know. Thanks guys.
>
>Darrell Duggan aka JUMPINFORD AOL.com
>74 F-350 RangerXLT Super Camper Special
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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:47:20 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Boss 429

Anyone know who makes spark plug wires for a Boss 429?
This late on a Sat. Night my resources have struck out.
Not looking for factory replacement stuff.
This "Babe" will be making power!
I think that I have a Pt. # on some Taylor Wires!
Anyone else?
Direct replies or back to the list ether way is ok.

Thankz
Chris

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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:05:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: hurdj VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Piston Rings.....choices, choices, choices

On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> Date sent: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:22:46 -0400 (EDT)
> From: hurdj VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Piston Rings.....choices, choices, choices
> Copies to: hurdj
>
> > Yep! I am running the Total Seal TSS (street/strip) gapless rings in
> > my F-150 (302!). The TSS type is a cast iron ring and is avail- able
> > in either Moly or Chrome surfaces. The second ring is the gap- less
> > ring. And I am running Total Seal's "Gold-Power" oil ring. It is a
> > 3-piece low tension oil ring to reduce friction.
>
> So the top compression ring is still a standard single ring with an end gap?
> That's the only one that gets the moly anyway right?
>
Yes. And yes.

> > Total Seal reccommends that you put a restrictor in the PCV line with
> > a .062" orifice, as the increased ring seal of the gapless rings can
> > give you a slight increase in intake manifold vacuum, and decreased
> > crankcase pressure, which causes excess flow in the PCV system. This
> > excess flow will suck oil vapor and mist PCV system with out the
> > restrictor. (been there, and had to do that.)
>
> Theoretically this seems plauseable but I'm still holding my tongue in my
> cheek :-) Obviously the purpose of gapless rings is to increase sealing
> thereby improving vacuum and reducing blow by but the leakage in a fresh,
> properly machined standard setup is very minimal to begin with

True. But after a few miles....... When we tore down the 302
for its rebuild, I measured and documented everything. (Well,
almost everything. Wish I had noted how the ring end-gaps were
aligned upon tear down.) The top and 2nd ring end-gaps
*averaged* .063"! (Factory spec is .015")

and the PCV
> system moves very little air in normal operation anyway with good rings so is
> the difference really that great?

For a given vacuum reading, the PCV should move a consistant
amount of air, given its fixed orifice size. As the throttle
opens wider, and vacuum drops off, PCV flow drops off, (just when
you could use more flow, as blow-by increases when under load,
especially if the ring gaps have opened up after some miles.)

Close the throttle, and Vacuum can jump up into the mid 20s,
and PCV flow increases up to the limit of the PCV orifice (just
when you don't need more flow, as blow-by can go negative when
decelerating, especially if the ring gaps have opened up after
some miles.) I would *think* the crankcase could go negative
under this condiction, if the PCV filter and inlet can't keep
up, but I have never tried to measure the crankcase for a vacuum.
(I always wondered if that little felt pad under the distributor
rotor was there to lube the advance plate, or to keep dirt from
getting sucked into the crankcase, if the crankcase exhibited
a negative pressure.)

If the PCV system crankcase air inlet is
> properly filtered then the crank case is "supposed" to stay at atmospheric in
> which case the restrictor won't make any difference right?
>
> > You also should use a clamp-on style valve seals, as the decreased
> > crankcase pressure tends to lift the standard type valve seals.
>
> Really though...what causes the seals to move up? Are you saying the
> vacuum in the valve covers is so great it sucks gasses through the valve
> stems.....with enough energy to move the seals? I'm having trouble with this
> one :-)
>
Well, I *think* that is what Total Seal is implying when they
recommend style seals for high performance applications. They
also say to use "O" ring or umbrella type seals if you can't
use the clamp on style in your application.

Jim in Central NY
'79 F-150 (302!)
'92 Topaz (3.0l)
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:25:52 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Boss 429

The wires that came with my Jaacobs were freakin huge. I was impressed even
before I got a chance to use them. If you wanna check out there webs site its
....

---

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