61-79-list-digest Tuesday, September 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 448



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Valve Stem Oil Seals - Questions for the experts
FTE 61-79 - off topic, I need advice on chanpaign for the wedding
FTE 61-79 - Valve Stem Oil Seals - Questions for the experts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Camper Special Options
FTE 61-79 - Door update
Re: FTE 61-79 - Holy backfires Batman
FTE 61-79 - RE: Oil Level Sensor
FTE 61-79 - Re: A/C brackets
FTE 61-79 - Score!
FTE 61-79 - 352cid overbore
FTE 61-79 - Backfire
FTE 61-79 - Re: Horn button hopelessness
FTE 61-79 - HOT running 460
FTE 61-79 - Learning FOMOCO's
FTE 61-79 - break in
FTE 61-79 - Re: Horn button hopelessness
FTE 61-79 - Re: I need an education, but be gentle...
FTE 61-79 - Blowby
FTE 61-79 - DuraSpark II system
RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: I need an education, but be gentle...
FTE 61-79 - RE: Oil Level Sensor
RE: FTE 61-79 - DuraSpark II system
FTE 61-79 - Re: Oil level sensor
FTE 61-79 - Re: I need an education, but be gentle...
FTE 61-79 - intake manifold / ridge reaming
FTE 61-79 - AMIND: FTE pictures found on another site
FTE 61-79 - Re: Killeen?
FTE 61-79 - Horn button hopelessness
Re: FTE 61-79 - HOT running 460
FTE 61-79 - 352 max bore size
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: T-shirt design
FTE 61-79 - Re: Onan Ignition Disabler

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:09:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Valve Stem Oil Seals - Questions for the experts

Background:
352 FE. Having some pretty severe blow by (1+ qt / 200 miles) with the oil coming out the breather/oil fill
cap putting a good layer of oil over the driver side of the truck.

Testing:
Compression test revealed 7 cylinders at 130 to 150 psi. The number 2 cylinder (passenger side) had only
50 psi. Adding oil to the cylinder and redoing the test resulted in new value of only 60 psi. Tried it twice
and got same values both time.

Diagnosis?? Valve Guide or Stem Seals. Since the seals are easier to replace (so I think?), I got a set
and went about putting them on. Following shop manual (orange book) step by step. Get the spring
compressed and the manual says "remove the retainer locks" - YEA RIGHT! How do I GET THE STUPID
RETAINER LOCKS OFF!!! There is no mention of a special tool. Another book that I consult says
something about using magnetic tweezers, which I will happily buy and try, but I don't think its going to help.

Another thing I have noticed> the shop manual states (in at least 2 places) that the exhaust seals are 0.025
inch different in height than the intake seals. The seals I got (set of 16) from AutoZone (HiLo said they had
36 of them but couldn't find them after 1/2 hour) are all the same height and do not have any marks to
differentiate them. The set says right on the box, Ford 352 but maybe they are mislabled? Or maybe the
.025 really doesn't matter that much? Any ideas / experience or suggestions?
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:12:16 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - off topic, I need advice on chanpaign for the wedding

>
>Cheap but good.....any ideas? I'm thinking in the range of $4.00/bottle?
>
Get Cook's. Sam's Club has it. Very tasty for the money.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:21:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Valve Stem Oil Seals - Questions for the experts

I just looked at the tech articles on the FTE web site. I knew about the "rope trick", but went ahead and
looked at the article just in case it mentions removing the locks. Sure enough, Steve comes through
and does mention hitting the retainer with a socket to loosen the assembly. I will try it tonight. Any other
tricks out there to try if this doesn't work?

Much thanks to Saint Steve for his insightfull articles. Wished I would have read the spring compressor
- - tool making section before I shelled out $25 to buy one, OUCH!

Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:00:31 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Camper Special Options

Michael Linnane wrote: Mine has inflatable bladders on both sides underneath the
bed. It looks

> like these things lift the bed up if you inflate them? They do not look like
> shocks. They are rubber cylinders 4inches by 4inches with hoses running from
> them to the rear wheel wells. The end of the hoses has connections to put
> air in them? Is this a Camper Special option? Are the bladders for lifting
> the bed?

Michael: These are probably the Firestone Airlift bladders that are commonly
found on motor homes. They were probably added by a previous owner. I had a
set on my old 74 F250 4X4 as I needed the lift capacity for lifting the bed when
I had my dunebuggy on the bed rack and was towing my 28 ft. travel trailer.
They are great for leveling the rear of the truck when you have to much weight
in the bed like from a camper, etc.

Thanks
John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
74 Stroppe Bronco

>
>
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:19:56 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Door update

I spent most of Sunday afternoon working on Henry's new door. When I put it
on last weekend, I only adjusted it enough for it to work so the first
order of business was to properly align it in the opening. Presto, two of
the bolts holding it to the hinges snapped off. Next step: remove door from
truck and hope it doesn't rain again. Eaze outs didn't work. Luckily, I
still had my old door so I took a backing plate out of it. I then used a
tap to clean out the threads and a die on the bolts. Remember our
interference fit discussion several weeks back? Those bolts aren't made to
come out and go back in. I believe it is a safety feature.

The door is back on with the stereo speaker, the power lock unit, and the
inside and outside trim. I even got the pinstripe back on. Now the only
repair left is the lower cab corner. I don't miss that caved in door!!!!


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, only one dent left from the crash
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:34:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Sean O'Malley"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Holy backfires Batman

> > What would cause an I6-300 w/ Carter 1 bbl to backfire only when the
> > vehicle is coasting?
>
> This sounds more like rich mixture or oil fouling to me. Older carbs used to
> allow more fuel to be sucked in on decelleration but newer ones have a
> dashpot that keeps the throttle open longer to reduce this phenomenon.

So, when you folks talk about backfires like this, are you talking
about fuel detonanting up in the carb/air cleaner (what motorcycle
folks call "carb farts")? Or are you referring to the crackle/pop
that comes out of the tail pipe when coasting down a steep hill
with glasspacks? I always thought the latter was just a feature
of having almost-straight-pipes. Back in high school, my 70
Cutlass did that (Holley 600 with stock exhaust manifold, dual
glasspacks on a 350), and my '78 F150 does it now (300 I6 1bbl, single
glasspack).

BTW, beware! I'm probably gonna be asking a lot of newbie questions.
I'm decent with wrenching, but most of what I've learned has been
seat-of-the-pants stuff, or I watched a friend do things.

- --sean

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:55:01 -0400
From: William King
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Oil Level Sensor

Kerry (and all);
I am responsible for suggesting the oil level sensor (after
turning my 360 into a dead-dino processing machine). Your
suggestion is good. The "problems" I've been trying to think
my way thru are:
1. One possible way (I can think) of making an oil level sensor is
to use some kind of float (like a gas tank float).
2. I don't think there is enough room for a float in the oil
pan (imagine the joy of shredding your new oil level float with
the crank. Imagine the joy of sucking parts of the float into
the oil pump). Of course, I don't know this for sure. Does anyone
know how much room there is between the crank and the top of the oil
level?
3. Soooo....I also thought about a series of electrical connections
that would be closed by the oil level (think of a vertical ladder in the
oil pan with + on one side of the ladder, and - on the other side. When
there is oil between the + and -, the connection is closed, and a
light is lit. This could give you an accurate representation of how
much oil is in the pan. Sadly, EE (and engineering in general) is
not my forte, so feel free to laugh at this idea (I know knowthing about
the conductivity of motoroil, but I think the oil in my old 360 should
have enough metal in it to conduct rather well). Come to think of
it, don't they put oil in coils to insulate them?
Well, I better quit before I really look like a fool. I'm still
interested in some kind of in-cab oil-level sensor, but I'm a little
stymied right now.
Ohio Bill

1968 Torino GT (429 4V 4speed)
1968 F100 (360 4V 4speed)
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:07:35 -0600
From: Jamey Moss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: A/C brackets

Bryan Kirking wrote:
> Jamey, I appreciate you passing this on, but.... Old Air is the company that > I bought the AC (with Sanden Compressor) from and they told me that I needed
> to find my own bracket! I dont remeber seeing brackets for the 74 - 75 FE,
> what page is it on?

Okay, I checked the catalog, and the part is actually for '74-'78, so I was
almost right. Here's the information:


part# 40-7273L 1974-1978 360 & 390 - bracket for Sanden compressor
Old Air catalog #498, page 33

I don't know why the '74-'78 FE's would be any different from earlier years,
but that's what the catalog says. Let me know if you find out the reason for
the year restrictions.


Jamey Moss
ra4001 email.sps.mot.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.prismnet.com/~jamey/f100/
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:50:00 -0500
From: Mike Masse
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Score!

I went out to a junkyard that I frequent fairly often yesterday to drop
off a bunch of scrap metal and while I was there the owner (knowing that
I'm a Ford buff) pointed towards an F250 and said that he was going to
be getting rid of it and if I wanted anything that was in the bed it
was mine. So I went to take a look, and I found a complete D44 HD
which looks like it's in excellent condition, a divorced NP205, NP435 w/
bellhousing combo. I knew I could use the axle for spare parts, but I
grabbed the T/C and transmission since he was giving them away anyways.
He said it was all off of the same vehicle and I was just curious what
years the F250's used divorced transfer cases. My guess is that this
was a '76 since the axle had disc brakes and the monstrous external
hubs. Also, how do you tell the difference between a FE and 335/385
series bellhousing?
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:59:39 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 352cid overbore

Eric Donaldson writes: >>I plan to turn my '66 352 into a 410 by using a
410-428 crank and rods and 410 pistons.As all you know,the 352 std bore is
4" and that of the 410,4.05".Will a 352 go safely to 4.05,or even farther
if I wish to use an o/s 410 piston?

The factory offered .060" pistons for the 332 and the 352, so I would guess
that the block would safely overbore to at least 4.1 or somewhere near
that. The factory was always being "safe" with their offerings. I have
bored 390's (4.050") to the 406/428 (4.130") safely, but I have also bored
a couple into the waterjacket. Not all will bore that far. I would feel
very safe with a 4.050" from the standard 4" of the 352.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:51:43 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Backfire

Mike Masse writes: >> What would cause an I6-300 w/ Carter 1 bbl to
backfire only when the vehicle is coasting? The faster I'm going the
louder it is. If I'm driving in town around 25 or so and I coast I get
multiple quiet backfires which sound more like a gurgling type of sound.
If I'm on the highway I get the gurgling, but I'll also get a few loud
bangs. This engine idles great and seems to run great under power.


Check all your vacuum lines and the carburetor mount. Sounds to me like
you have a slight vacuum leak someplace . Not enough to cause misfire, but
enough to cause the problem you describe. Also could be a leak in the
exhaust near the engine, but your description best fits the vacuum leak.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:07:01 -0500
From: Bill Adams
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Horn button hopelessness

- -----------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:06:29 -0600
From: "Michael White"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Horn button hopelessness

BTW:) Thanks to the person who mentioned the fact that... In order for
the
horn to work, there must be a ground strap connecting the steering
gearbox
input shaft to the column shaft (where the rubber steering coupler disc
is
located)

Michael

Whoa! Maybe that's why my horn only works kinda half-a**ed.

To the shop!!!!
- --
Thanks!
Bill Adams
1966 F-100 Custom Cab, 352 V8, PS, AC, Long bed
1961 F-100 Unibody, 223 and a three on the tree!

The WoodButcher's Shop
"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6640"

,.-----__
_ ,:::://///,:::-.
_| ~~. /:''/////// `` ::`;/|/
\, *_} /' ( Ford ) :://'`\
\( .' , |||||| `/( e \
-===~__-'\____ ```\_____/~`-._ `.
~~ ~~ `~-'
**************************************************************

**************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:13:25 -0400
From: pdesanto Cinergy.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - HOT running 460

A couple of things to check on your "Hot Running 460".
1. Double check your timing, Check your vacuum and Mechanical advance
mechanisms.
2. Are you using a thermostat ? If not get one in there. At that engine
speed (3200) the water may be going through the radiator TOO fast; not
allowing it to cool enough. It needs that resriction to keep the flow at the
proper level.
3. Make sure your belt is not slipping at higher engine speeds.
And your right about those fans, they don't do diddly above 30 M.P.H.
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:21:15 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Learning FOMOCO's

David John writes: >>
1)What is meant by FE, I gather it is a type of block, but what is its
difference and how can I tell if I have one?

FE= Ford/Edsel
FT= Ford Truck (Basicly same blocks for parts interchangeability)

2)How can I tell the year of my engine (previous owner switched from 400
to 460)?

Casting # starting with a C - 1960's
Casting # starting with a D = 1970's
Casting # starting with a E = 1980's
2nd # in casting # being the year specific that this cast was introduced
(ie C6 = 1966 - D3 = 1973 etc.)

3)How can I tell if I have an internally or externally balanced engine?

External balance will have counter weights on vibration damper and
Flywheel.

4)What effect does how my engine is balanced have on me wanting to
switch to an c6 auto?

None

5)Will any 78-79 c6 np205 bolt up to my 460 or do I have to find the
right bell housing/torque converter?

No!! The 302 351W and the FE's had the C6 also and have different
bellhousing to block bolt patterns. The C6 you choose must be for the
particular engine.

6)Is it possible to put in an 80's vintage 5spd in? Has anyone done
this?

I haven't done it but the 5 speed used in late model F250's thru The
SuperDuty (F450) with 460 engine should be a bolt in with some necessary
clutch linkage engineering. I think it has intergrated bellhousing. Do
not use the small 5speed in Mustangs and small engined (302) trucks. It
will not take the 460 torque.

Help teach me.........

Hope this helps.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:39:06 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - break in

I'm going to throw in my two cents on breaking in a new engine. First. I am
not disagreeing with anyone in particular, just throwing out some more info
for your evaluation.

I have heard people that should know say that if you intend to run an
engine hard, break it in hard. I don't necessarily agree with this.

The most critical element in determining engine life is engine design. I
don't have that much experience with Ford engines as I was a heretic GM
consumer before I became enlightened. I have seen numerous small blocks run
into the 200k range with no problem. I have seen one big block make it past
100k and few make it beyond 80k. (chebbies)

The most critical element that you can control is startups. If your engine
starts dry, it will wear out prematurely. Assemble a new engine so that it
doesn't start dry. Dry meaning no lubricant on parts that need oil. At a
certain point, low mileage engines are going to be in worse shape than a
higher mileage engine. If an engine was only started once every month for
20 years, that means low mileage and lots of dry starts, equals engine
damage. A vehicle driven 2 miles a day every day on the other hand means
low miles and plenty of lubrication provided it was maintained under the
severe schedule.

The next element is heat. Don't let your engine overheat.

The 1973 Cadillac owner's manual says not to drive at any constant speed
for the first 500 miles and ocaissionally take your foot off of the gas
allowing raw fuel to enter the combustion chamber to lubricate the valves.
Most other owner's manuals I have read says that no break in period is
required.

My conclusion is that someone who intends to take care of an engine will
naturally break it in right unless they pulled a real boner when they put
it together. I'm not intending to offend anyone here, but jumping sand
dunes and driving the freeway at 95 are abuse. Abuse equals shorter life on
all components, period.

Asbestos underwear in good working order.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, only one dent left from the crash
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Horn button hopelessness

> Fellow Paleo-Fordites,
>
> When I bought my '69 F250, one of the previous owners had removed the horn
> button and horn ring. I recently picked up a replacement at my favorite
> junkyard, but I hit a snag when I went to install it. The threaded metal
> center of the steering column(apologies for poor terminology)sticks up so far
> that the horn button assembly will not sit down into the steering wheel far
> enough to engage the three mounting slots. It's almost like the outside
> portion of the steering column has sunk down relative to the center portion
> of the steering column, leaving the threaded thingy in the middle to stick
> up too high.
>
> Is that possible? Has anyone else had this problem?
>

The thrust bearing at the bottom of your steering column is shot. This
allows the spring behind the steering wheel to pull the shaft up towards
your chest. The rag joint is the only thing holding your shaft in place.

My F-250 is in similar shape, I've gathered pieces from local bone yard
to convert to power steering and fix the thrust bearing at the same time.
All I need now is time . . .

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: I need an education, but be gentle...

Steve wrote:
> >1)What is meant by FE, I gather it is a type of block, but what is its
> >difference and how can I tell if I have one?
>
[FE geneology deleted]

> It's easy to pick an FE out of a crowd. Just look at the intake manifold.
> If the edges of the manifold go all the way under the edge of the valve
> covers, so that the manifold actually forms part of the rocker chamber,
> then You got an FE (or FT) in front of You.

I just did the valve covers on my Bronco II - before the EPA came after me.
After removing the covers, I thought to myself, Gee! I've got an FE in my
Baby Bronco! A 2.9 liter V-6 FE! You see, the manifold goes under the valve
cover, just like a real FE :-)

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:10:04 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Blowby

Gregg Wilson

I would try a new PCV valve and possibly a new grommett.. Let me tell you
why. I have a F350 (1976 Vintage) that has a 14' flatbed on it. I
purchased it in about 1986. Have no idae of how many miles are on it, but
I do know that if the speedo is correct it has tripped over at least twice.
It had been setting for 6 years withiout being cranked. I made an offer
and he took me up. It has a 360 or 390 in it. When I cranked it up and
drove it home I fogged the whole countryside up. (Mosquito control in its
best form). It used a quart of oil every 50/60 miles or so for the first
few trips to the grain/fertilizer store. I drove it to a sale nearly 150
miles away. It used 2 quarts on the way up. It didn't use any on the way
back home, quit smoking, and hasn't used any since. The rings were all
stuck up. Give it a chance to loosen up. Might even try some auto trans
fluid thru the carb while it is running or remove the plugs and try some
penetrating oil - (not much because what leaks down by the piston will be
in the oilpan), in ea cylinder and let set a couple of days. give it a
chance before you do anything drastic.. FE's usually last longer than
115,000 miles with no oil consumption.

All JMHO.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:16:02 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - DuraSpark II system

Hmmm.... Gentlemen, I would like to add a couple of notes on this (now
all-but-dead) thread.

First, I must disagree with the recommendation to ground the DuraSpark II
case. AFAIK that is not necessary. In fact, in my 1980 F250, the DS II
case is firmly bolted to... the plastic inner fender with no apparent
grounding. Since the case contains a potted circuit board (completely
encased in epoxy resin to protect it from moisture and vibration), I'd bet
there is no electrical connection between the actual circuits and the
external case.

At any rate, the circuit's ground goes through the black wire to the base
of the distributor, which is grounded through the block to the battery
negative terminal. This is illustrated in the schematics.

Second, I must disagree w/ the recommendation to externally ground the
coil. Indeed, the outer case of the coil is electrically isolated from the
ignition circuit. The ground connector in the coil's primary (low voltage)
circuit (- or "tach" lead) supplies the current for the secondary (high
voltage) circuit, and thus acts as the ground for the coil. The Mallory
ProMaster (with a dielectric epoxy case) is not externally grounded on my
truck, and it runs just fine.

Lastly, the DS II unit w/ yellow strain relief uses 3 connectors (rather
than the 2 connectors of the standard blue DS II units). The yellow DS II
unit has provisions for more timing variability (advance/retard) based on
input from a barometric pressure sensor. AFAIK, the yellow units were used
on some high altitude vehicles (maybe in CA?), but I don't know if they
were ever used on trucks. AFAIK, the yellow and blue units are not
interchangeable and I believe the "high performance" allegations about the
yellow units are just rumors.

As for Gary's M-block revving problems, I am inclined to agree w/ Steve D's
diagnostic suggestions. I think Gary might have a wiring problem. I am
having no trouble revving to 5200 rpm w/ my (ungrounded) DuraSpark II
system on a 351M w/ a Motorcraft 2150 2V carb and stock manifolds.

BTW: the web site Steve mentioned has an excellent DS II conversion
tutorial and wiring schematic.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/duraspark.html

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

P.S. Apologies to Bill B. for misinformation on the EEC-III system. You
are correct, the EEC-IV system wasn't used until 1984, pre-84 CFI vehicles
used the EEC-III system. Oops, I think this was discussed on the perf
list. Oh well, I know you're on both lists, Bill.


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:18:48 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: I need an education, but be gentle...

Pat wrote:
I just did the valve covers on my Bronco II - before the EPA came after me.

Do we want to ask????

John

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:23:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Oil Level Sensor

Bill wrote:
> Kerry (and all);
> I am responsible for suggesting the oil level sensor (after
> turning my 360 into a dead-dino processing machine). Your
> suggestion is good. The "problems" I've been trying to think
> my way thru are:
> 1. One possible way (I can think) of making an oil level sensor is
> to use some kind of float (like a gas tank float).
> 2. I don't think there is enough room for a float in the oil
> pan (imagine the joy of shredding your new oil level float with
> the crank. Imagine the joy of sucking parts of the float into
> the oil pump). Of course, I don't know this for sure. Does anyone
> know how much room there is between the crank and the top of the oil
> level?

I replied to this once, maybe you missed it. All Ford products over the
last ten years (at least) have oil level sensors. It is a float type
the screws into the side of the oil pan. It does NOT give a level
indication, just when you're about 2 quarts low. I replaced it on
my Aerostar (3.0 l V-6) a couple of years ago, attempting to fix a leak.
It cost about $30 from ford. The only problem I can see trying to use this
would be attaching the fitting to the oil pan - check the archives for
recent discussions on re-attaching Marko's dip stick tube on his 410.
Oil pans should be available for any recently produced engines (302/351W/
460). FE users, as usual, will have to improvise :-)

> 3. Soooo....I also thought about a series of electrical connections
> that would be closed by the oil level (think of a vertical ladder in the
> oil pan with + on one side of the ladder, and - on the other side. When
> there is oil between the + and -, the connection is closed, and a
> light is lit. This could give you an accurate representation of how
> much oil is in the pan. Sadly, EE (and engineering in general) is
> not my forte, so feel free to laugh at this idea (I know knowthing about
> the conductivity of motoroil, but I think the oil in my old 360 should
> have enough metal in it to conduct rather well).

:-) Even with suspended shavings, oil is a very poor electrical conductor.

> Come to think of it, don't they put oil in coils to insulate them?

Nope. The oil is used to conduct heat from the windings to the metal
case, where it is dissipated to the air.

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:33:56 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - DuraSpark II system

My $0.02

Lastly, the DS II unit w/ yellow strain relief uses 3 connectors (rather
than the 2 connectors of the standard blue DS II units). The yellow DS II
unit has provisions for more timing variability (advance/retard) based on
input from a barometric pressure sensor. AFAIK, the yellow units were used
on some high altitude vehicles (maybe in CA?), but I don't know if they
were ever used on trucks. AFAIK, the yellow and blue units are not
interchangeable and I believe the "high performance" allegations about the
yellow units are just rumors.

Dave you are right about the yellow grommet DSII having 3 connectors and the
3 connector is connected to a altitude sensor. And just having the yellow
grommet system raised the price for the DSII from $20-25 to $75+ (last time
I had to replace one in SWMBO's 82LTD- 302w/AOD). And as per the Parts
chimps that I have talked to they are NOT interchangeable. And the LTD was
bought new in Conroe, Texas and is stickered "Made in Canada'

John Gillespie
San Diego, CA


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:35:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Oil level sensor

Kerry wrote:

> Somebody (sorry, can't remember who) was wanting to use an oil level sensor.
> Somebody else (again, sorry) mentioned it might be connected to the computer
> on a late model application. So check this out.
> A freind of mine just got back from vacationing in Yellowstone. He was
> telling me all the tales of woe concerning his RV. The RV is built on a Ford
> E-350 chassis with a 460.(Ford content : ) ) Anyway, after buying a few
> tires and an alternator, and wishing for a fuel injection system.( Holley
> Pro-Jection in the works ) He said he parked on an incline and his Onan
> generator crapped out on him. It wouldn't start again no matter what he
> tried. So he spent the rest of his vacation and the drive back to Texas with
> no airconditioner.
> He started tinkering with it when he got home and found out it had an oil
> level sensor that cut it off. Same time that happened the starter solenoid
> petered out, that is why it wouldn't start again.
> So why couldn't some industrious and adventurous person go to their local RV
> or generator shop and buy a sensor setup for an Onan, then install it in
> their oil pan and hook it up to a light on the dash? It is apperrently self
> contained and needs no computer system.
> Sounds like a plan to me.
>

I have a Fairmont Motor car (Sorry, not a ford, but does the name count for
FTC?), powered by an Onan CK22B engine. The low oil cutoff is simply a
pressure switch that shorts the points if the pressure drops, with a
bypass for starting purposes. Perhaps later engines have a different
setup?

Shameless plug for my other hobby: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.narcoa.org/
Some of the larger motor cars were built with 4 or 6 cylinder fords, or even
some with flathead ford V8's!

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: I need an education, but be gentle...

>
> Pat wrote:
> I just did the valve covers on my Bronco II - before the EPA came after me.
>
> Do we want to ask????
>

Just think oil slick - not Exxon sized, but big enough. Actually, I was
tired of buying Mobil-1 the feed my smoke generator :-)

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:29:08 -0600
From: Jamey Moss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - intake manifold / ridge reaming

Well, I finally got that stuck intake manifold off my 390 -- thanks to
everyone for the advice. I ended up using the same 4x4 braced against the lip
of the manifold where it stuck out over the block, then hit it with a sledge
hammer. Earlier I was using a regular hammer, and that didn't do the trick.
I guess I had forgotten the old standby: "When in doubt, use a bigger hammer."

Now if I can only get that stuck-on crankshaft timing gear off, I can get on
the the bottem end.

BTW, do I really need to remove the ridge on the piston bores if I don't plan
on re-using the pistons and will have it bored .030" anyway? Will the pistons
have trouble coming out if I don't, or will I cause more problems for myself?
I don't want to skip any steps and end up with a mediocre to poor engine, but
I don't want to waste the effort or risk reaming too far if I don't need to do it.


Thanks again,

Jamey Moss
ra4001 email.sps.mot.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.prismnet.com/~jamey/f100/
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:54:01 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - AMIND: FTE pictures found on another site

I've been informed by a list member that several pictures from
our pictorial have appeared on

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.classicpickups.com/online_gallery.htm

The following trucks from our site are there:

1949 F-2 belonging to Bob Jones
1955 F100 belonging to to Howard Tarnoff
1956 F100 belonging to Tom Wenhold
1965 F250 4x4 belonging to Bill Ballinger
1970 F-100 belonging to Trevor Baker
1972 F100 belonging to Les Edmundson
1976 F150 Supercab belonging to Tom Hogan

If they did not ask you for permission, let me know and I'll
send them an email requesting that they get permission from
the owners.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
kpayne ford-trucks.com




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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:22:29 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Killeen?

Anyone from the list live in or around Killeen, Texas?

We're working here for the week....

Just checking...

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:30:58 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Horn button hopelessness

Hey Sean,

It sounds to me like the steering shaft has slid up the column some. You might
check on the other side of the steering wall. You'll see a little U-joint and
I think behind that, a clamp. If I remember, the lower bearing on these
columns was more of a mickey little bushing and the shaft slides through it.
If you've worked on your steering box lately, the column may have been pushed
back. Is your steering box tight to the frame? Also, I think you can loosen
that clamp and slide the steering shaft forward (down)...Now, mine is a 4x4,
but I think the steering columns are the same..

Let us know how it goes...

Colorado Jeff


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:12:42 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - HOT running 460

do you have a fan shroud?
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:20:46 -0700
From: Eric Donaldson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 352 max bore size

Thanks to John and Stu for your kind advice.I'm still looking for the
definitive answer.
I know many 410-428 blocks bear the same C6ME-A number but I think
they're not actually the same casting. Is there an expert out there who
knows for sure how far a '66 352 will go?
(I wouldn't be having this problem if I hadn't sold my 427 block - for
$350.)

Eric
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:23:11 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: T-shirt design

I had mentioned a couple of weeks ago that we would have
a prize pack for the winning t-shirt design. I forgot
to announce what the prize would be. It will include the
following:

a. free FTE t-shirt, hot off the press
b. 2 FTE window stickers
c. 1 meg web site space (http://www.ford-trucks.com/yourname)
for 1 year
d. email address (yourname ford-trucks.com) for 1 year. If you
already have one, you can have a second or have your 2nd
year for free.

If we can think of more, we'll add it.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marv Miller
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Onan Ignition Disabler

Kerry Walker recently wrote the following, in part:

> He said he parked on an incline and his Onan
>generator crapped out on him. It wouldn't start again no matter what he
>tried. So he spent the rest of his vacation and the drive back to Texas with
>no airconditioner.
>He started tinkering with it when he got home and found out it had an oil
>level sensor that cut it off.
>So why couldn't some industrious and adventurous person go to their local RV....


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