61-79-list-digest Friday, August 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 415



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Slightly off topic, but not much
RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil
RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil
FTE 61-79 - odds and ends
Re: FTE 61-79 - Gary's 460 views :-(
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460s-was: Re: carb options, 77 351M F150
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com
re:FTE 61-79 - 460
RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com
FTE 61-79 - Engine swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - odds and ends
RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil
Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com
FTE 61-79 - Going South
re:FTE 61-79 - 460
RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil
Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com
FTE 61-79 - Re: What is it? (390/360)
FTE 61-79 - Re: Pat's sig (OT) was OEM Tires
Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine swap
FTE 61-79 - Timing problem??
Re: FTE 61-79 - Question on FE clutch size??
Re: FTE 61-79 - 1965 F-100 240 ci color
RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil
Re: FTE 61-79 - modular engines

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:58:56 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Slightly off topic, but not much

Gang(s), I asked about the switch that resets the engine service
light, where is it and how do you turn it off for a 96 ranger. Can
someone point me in the right direction so I can make some
points with my neighbor?

Sorry for the repeat, I won't ask again :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:18:42 -0500
From: "Woosley, Chris"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5

JP5 is general grade aviation jet fuel. It's the most common grade.

Chris Woosley
M-D/TOTCO INSTRUMENTATION
manufacturing engineer
cwoosley cp.varco.com
(512) 340-5594 fax (512) 340-5225


- -----Original Message-----
From: Marv Miller [mailto:ae722 lafn.org]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 11:28 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5


John Miller wrote:
>JP5 and a rag and brush works wonders too :)

Just out of curiosity, where you gettin' JP-5? I may have it a bass
ackwards, but I thought this stuff was for SR-71's only.
- -Marv-

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:32:09 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5

Ant reason kerosene wouldn't work as well?

- ----------
> From: Woosley, Chris
> To: '61-79-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
> Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 11:18 AM
>
> JP5 is general grade aviation jet fuel. It's the most common grade.
>

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:23:13 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil

yes, can be dropped shipped. payment methods i do not know. all i can do
is find out for you. i'll send a private email to you if he is interested.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 8:13 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil
Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:57:08 -0400

> i get my cousin to get it for me at cost. he became a dealer and we all
> take advantage of it - as we all agreed upon. he doesn't sell enough to
> make much money, and it really is only to get the good price. but there
is
> some cost involved, and of course a minimum sales requirement, that is
not
> hard to meet.

So........if I pay the shipping..............:-) Right now I only
maintain 2 that can use it but one day I'll build one with good
seals and then......:-) I actually want to get some ATF for the bird
and try it but hate to pay $7/qt. and will be changing the oil in the
two I have it in already but will go to Mobil1 if I can't get the price
down.

Seriously, can he get it cheaper and would it be worth his while to
drop ship or re-ship to me? This may be an opportunity for him
to make a few bucks, lets see......2000 X 2 vehicles per member
times .00 equals.....:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:28:05 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil

don't think so, but IMNSHO it shouldn't matter. superior products are not
always welcomed by the man, big brother, or anyone else in power/authority.

buying a part to put on your truck that is for off road use only in Ca
doesn't mean it increases emmisions, it may just mean that the
manufacturer/marketer didn't want to pay outragious costs to get the CARB
certification. for example.

but, to each his own. freedom is a good thing.
sleddog

- ----------
From: Ken Payne[SMTP:kpayne ford-trucks.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:28 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil

At 08:01 PM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>don't know where you live, but here where i live mobil 1 and amsoil is
basically the same price. but i get amsoil at dealer price.
>
>sleddog
>

Has Amsoil gotten API certification on all their
oils yet? I know this has been a concern with
many on the newsgroups.

Ken


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:41:54 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - odds and ends

I'm with Gary on several points. Son-in-laws and widows will sell anything.
I am not owning another modular engine regardless of who makes it even if
the timing chains are made of gold. I have an uncle that apparently falls
into the classification of buck toothed hillbilly and he won't even sell
anything to his favorite nephew.

BTW, Gary, I had a B #ck that the Check Engine light wouldn't go off on (It
stayed lit.). Somehow that bulb fell out of the socket. The car always ran
better without the bulb.

I see that my fingers are swollen again. In reference to modular engines, I
meant don't BUY one. But it all you want to.

I always set the dwell to 30 degrees on a stock V8, then adjust the timing
accordingly.

A synthetic oil would be any oil that has had its chemical makeup altered
during the manufacturing process. I guess natural oils would be those that
have only been refined and had non altering aditives added (like
detergents). I take synthetic insulin and it works great. I am sure that
synthetic oils work great. I just don't see the increased cost
justification. It is also my understanding that once you switch to
synthetic, you can't switch back due to the effect on the seals. Is this
true or has this been conquered like radial tire construction? Don't ask
Why would you want to switch back, someone is always changing their mind or
changing it for you.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, bashed in left door, new left front fender
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (The software box said Windows95 or better, so I
bought a Mac.)
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:50:57 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Gary's 460 views :-(

Gary,

I wasn't trying to say that you foist the 460 on everyone. The original
statement that I attributed to you was that it takes more imagination to
build a "hot" Ford than a Ch*vy, which BTW I believe is quite true. I added
the caveat myself and wasn't trying to say that it was yours.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Gary's 460 views :-(
> Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 4:34 AM
>
> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150
> Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:46:35 -0700
>
> > > >since evidently they are the ultimate friggin' motor right outta the
> > crate!
> > >
> > > Noone has said this, except maybe Gary......
> >
> > You're right, as I recall it was Gary but someone else agreed with him.



>
> Bottom line is I like the 460 but I certainly don't foist it on everyone
> irespective of their needs so please don't accuse me of it in the future,
Ok? I
> usually take the tack that "if you don't have anything nice to say about
> someone (or something) don't say anything". If I can't be nice I delete
the
> post and go on.......:-)
>

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:58:30 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460s-was: Re: carb options, 77 351M F150

Well a $2K 460 rebuild would probably make more power and torque than a
400, it ought to with 60 extra cubes. I would even venture a guess that the
"equivalent" rebuild could be done for substantially less given the better
aftermarket support for 460s. However don't forget to factor the cost of
the swap if it's done right. The engine mounts alone are $100 from L&L and
the headers are $500 which of course means you're going to have to
modify/replace the exhaust system.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460s-was: Re: carb options, 77 351M F150
> Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 4:58 AM
>
> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460s-was: Re: carb options, 77 351M F150
> Date sent: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:03:23 -0700
>
> > Like I said, if slappin' a 4V on a 400 is the extent of your mechanical
> > imagination then by all means stick to swappin' in cubic inches.
However
> > if you took the time to review the HR article you'd see that they
massaged
> > the 400 to produce 380 hp and 468 lb-ft of torque for less than $2K.
> > Sorry, ain't no $700 "built" 460 ever gonna get anywhere near those
> > numbers.
>
> How about a $2000 built 460? Lets make legal comparisons here Ok? Go
> ahead and make your point but lets keep it in the same ball park. If I'm
a kid
> with lots of time and no money but I want something spectacular to show
off
> to my friends then a 460, junkyard swap is a pretty cool way to go but If
I
> have a good job, not so much time and want to exercise my brain then I
> might build any number of other choices with a great deal of
satisfaction.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:56:11 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5

From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:32:09 -0700

> Ant reason kerosene wouldn't work as well?

Same stuff pretty much. Jet fuel has some other ingredients in it
but it's mostly Kerosene or Diesel fuel. We used JP-4 in the
Chinooks but they were turbo shaft not jet engines. Basically the
same internally but the compressor drive turbine is attached to an
output shaft which is geared down to run a transmission. Unlike
Jet engines these have an exhaust temp of 560 degrees C at the
cone inlet and almost completely uses up the thrust in the
turbines. 90# of thrust I believe is all they had.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:45:06 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com

A plug for Ken and Peggy.

I have had almost as much interest in my ford-trucks.com e-mail address as
I get about my truck. It's better than personalized license plates.

Thanks for a great job.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, bashed in left door, new left front fender
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (The software box said Windows95 or better, so I
bought a Mac.)
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:06:40 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: re:FTE 61-79 - 460

He he he.. I didn't think my "buck-toothed hillbilly" comment would catch
on like it did! 8-)

Anyway, I was going to wait a few more months (more $$$ for rebuild) on
asking the question on what is the best way to rebuild this motor. (this
is for Sleddog and all of you other guru's out there on V-8's) I will be
putting this motor in a '78 F-250 4x4 w/ 4.10 and NP435 with a reduction
Spicer Model 24 transfer case (which I think has a 1:1.5 reduction in 2H)
Needless to say, this truck is "geared short!"

The use of this truck is mostly for pulling trailer, (so at about 55-60 mph
it'll probably be tachin' 23-2500 rmp) and I having no knowledge of "proper
camming and matching valve springs and such" I need help on the choices I'm
going to make for the rebuild. Here is what I would like, you guys tell me
if it is possible and what you would suggest-

Cost- Mediocre- Under $3,000 would be very nice!
Power- I would like it in the midrange, possibly from about 1,800-2,000
starting range- (I have no idea what uppper limit would be!)
Idle- I really do love that "loping/hardly running sound"
Gas milage- Like to keep it above 8mpg?
Longevity- I would want it to last atleast 75,000 miles. (I take good care
of
my stuff!)

I will get the block numbers this weekend and see what we can figure out
for that. Any help would be greatly appreciated- I'm ready to learn about
the BB family!

Tony
tony pscico.com
www.pscico.com/~tony

>The DOVE-C heads are probably the 2nd best non cobrajet head
>made, 2nd only to the D2OE-AB which is very rare. All heads from
>70 back had the close to the same cc. If you want hp&trq, make
>sure to use those heads. If you are lucky, you'll have the 70
>block to match, but any block from 68-71 will be fine.
>
>Curtis B.
>Curts Customs

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:08:48 -0500
From: "Woosley, Chris"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5

I agree Gary. The jet fuel gets some anti-foaming additives, and some
fungicides. Very important in aviation, and totally unnecessary for this
application. Another alternative is Coleman fuel. It's a little more
refined than kerosene. Also costs more, but not much.

Chris Woosley
M-D/TOTCO INSTRUMENTATION
manufacturing engineer
cwoosley cp.varco.com
(512) 340-5594 fax (512) 340-5225


- -----Original Message-----
From: Gary, 78 BBB [mailto:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 9:56 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5


From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: JP-5
Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:32:09 -0700

> Ant reason kerosene wouldn't work as well?

Same stuff pretty much. Jet fuel has some other ingredients in it
but it's mostly Kerosene or Diesel fuel. We used JP-4 in the
Chinooks but they were turbo shaft not jet engines. Basically the
same internally but the compressor drive turbine is attached to an
output shaft which is geared down to run a transmission. Unlike
Jet engines these have an exhaust temp of 560 degrees C at the
cone inlet and almost completely uses up the thrust in the
turbines. 90# of thrust I believe is all they had.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:14:58 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com

Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:45:06 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com

> I have had almost as much interest in my ford-trucks.com e-mail address as
> I get about my truck. It's better than personalized license plates.

Go ahead and rub it in.......I can't have one at work, dang it!

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:18:01 GMT
From: cdailey hhs.state.ne.us (Chad Dailey)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Engine swap

Hi all. I currently have a '68 F-250 with an extraordinarily tired
240 (~250K)in it. No power steering, no A/C, no anything but an
alternator and a T-18 behind it. I was told by someone, I can't
remember who now, that with a flywheel rebalance, a 351W would drop
right in (I'd do a 460, but finding a bellhousing / flywheel for it is
a problem; anyone got 'em laying around?). It seems logical, as the
bellhousing pattern is shared, and there isn't much else to hook up.
Can anyone drop hints on changes to motor mounts, tranny mounts,
exhaust manifolds (headers would be cool!), or other incidentals that
might grab me by the 'short and curlies'?

Thanks in advance,

Chad
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:25:13 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - odds and ends

Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:41:54 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - odds and ends

> A synthetic oil would be any oil that has had its chemical makeup altered
> during the manufacturing process.

My understanding is that it is not even petroleum based, it's
vegitable based.

> I guess natural oils would be those that
> have only been refined and had non altering aditives added (like
> detergents).

Oil is "cracked" in distilling towers and components of it are
pulled off at various temps etc. to separate out what they want
and then certain modifiers are added. Some are distilled so the
parafine stays in and some distill it out etc.. Since petroleum is
organic as well it stands to reason than oil can be made from
vegitaion directly.

> justification. It is also my understanding that once you switch to
> synthetic, you can't switch back due to the effect on the seals.

It's generally the other way around, the synthetics are actually
kinder to the seals but do not have the waxes in them to build up
in the seals to enhance their capabilities. When you put synthetic
in after petroleum oils they wash out the wax and the seals leak.


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:39:06 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil

At 02:28 PM 8/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>don't think so, but IMNSHO it shouldn't matter. superior products are not
>always welcomed by the man, big brother, or anyone else in power/authority.
>
>buying a part to put on your truck that is for off road use only in Ca
>doesn't mean it increases emmisions, it may just mean that the
>manufacturer/marketer didn't want to pay outragious costs to get the CARB
>certification. for example.
>
>but, to each his own. freedom is a good thing.
>sleddog

I hope I don't start a flame war here....

API certification is inexpensive and simply means that the oil has
been tested to meet a *minimum* requirement. Certification, in most
cases, is a very good thing. I would never buy a computer monitor that
wasn't both Energy Star low power and MPR II low radiation certified.
I'd never buy a computer that didn't have FCC certification or
a UPS without UL certification. I'd never put my child in a car
safety seat that wasn't certified. I'd never eat beef that didn't
have a high grading. Or ride an elevator that the state didn't inspect
annually. The list goes on and on. The certifications were made
specifically because of PT Barnum types who deceive the public. Granted,
certifications aren't bullet-proof, but its better than nothing at all.

Your example is correct. But without CARB certification, there is no
way that I can know that it will meet the required emission standards.
CARB certification proves it meets the minimum.

I'm learly of Amsoil because of the lack of certification and the bad
rap many peddlers on the newsgroups have given it (you are definately
not one of them) . I find it very difficult to have faith in their
claims of superiority made if the products aren't certified to meet the
minimums. Amsoil is big enough to afford certification, so why won't
they do it? I emailed them about it once and got no straight-forward
answers. Even worse is the star-burst on the bottles that, at first
glance, look like certification donuts.

Until they have proof, or someone can give me concrete proof, I'll
lump it in with Slick 50, Splitfires and Duralube. There are some
products, which through my own experience, and those of others,
that have proven themselves. Example: Marvel Mystery Oil. I've seen
it free up stuck rings, heard gummed lifters clear up, and seen carbs
soaked in it overnight come out clean as a whistle.

The new Ford car I just bought will get Mobil 1 at its first change.
Its half the price of Amsoil and has certification. I can buy it
anywhere and I'm willing to bet that it has more miles of usuage than
any other synthetic oil. I already run it in the differential and
tranny on my 67 F100. Engine has too many miles to switch over.
The only thing I've seen that comes close to proof is a "study" that
shows flash points, flow times, etc. ..... but it turns out that the
report is not only old, its also written by an Amsoil saleman.

Ken Payne
kpayne ford-trucks.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:47:07 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com

At 03:14 PM 8/21/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:45:06 -0500
>From: John LaGrone
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com
>
>> I have had almost as much interest in my ford-trucks.com e-mail address as
>> I get about my truck. It's better than personalized license plates.
>
>Go ahead and rub it in.......I can't have one at work, dang it!
>


Yet..... I'm looking into a web page interface for it! Then anyone
with web access can have a "vanity" ford-trucks.com email address.
On a similar note, a password change script is being tested.

Ken


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:51:08 -0700
From: gpark cymer.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Going South

Hey Azie, my guess is saying 'Going South" is like saying 'Going down', as
into the ground, as in death. You can go down south or up north, but they
don't switch around. This is just a guess, and there may be a more elegant
and enchanting explanation, like all the graveyards used to be built to the
South side of town, so if the town floods, the bodies won't contaminate the
river water, and start floating around.



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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:53:22 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: re:FTE 61-79 - 460

Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:06:40 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: re:FTE 61-79 - 460

> Cost- Mediocre- Under $3,000 would be very nice!
> Power- I would like it in the midrange, possibly from about 1,800-2,000
> starting range- (I have no idea what uppper limit would be!)
> Idle- I really do love that "loping/hardly running sound"
> Gas milage- Like to keep it above 8mpg?
> Longevity- I would want it to last atleast 75,000 miles. (I take good

With that budget I could build a really nice roller cam stump
puller :-) With proper gearing and the right carb setup (rochester)
you can get a lot better than that for sure and still have a lumpy
idle. My RV cam has a very slight lope to it and sounds reall nice
as you pull away from a light :-)

The nice thing about the 460 is the 460 which means you have
more power than you need so you can sacrifice a little on the
bottom to get more on top and still have a lot of pull at 2k rpm.
If you really want to pull in all the low end you can and still rev
get tri "Y" headers to go with your roller cam and DOVE-C heads
and flat top pistions. My understanding is that the tri-Y's are
easier to fit in 4wd trucks too but have never seen a set installed.

Once you have all that done get MSD or other high performance
ignition or you won't be able to make the rpm you want. I'm not
sure but I think this may be limiting me now and I know that the
stock dura spark is only good up to about 5k depending on how
much compression you are making. With higher compression the
rpm range goes down with stock ignitions.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:00:50 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil

Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:39:06 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil

> F100. Engine has too many miles to switch over. The only thing I've seen
> that comes close to proof is a "study" that shows flash points, flow
> times, etc. ..... but it turns out that the report is not only old, its
> also written by an Amsoil saleman.

Thank you sir! Since Mobil1 is easily available and certified I
think I will go that route although the Amsoil seems to be doing
everything they say so far but only 200k down the road will really
tell the tale :-) Now if I can just find the ATF somewhere.........:-(

They may be holding back due to some kind of priciple but that's
not good business. OTOH, if they hold back because they know
it can't pass the test then.........:-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:02:08 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com

Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:47:07 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ford-trucks.com

> Yet..... I'm looking into a web page interface for it! Then anyone
> with web access can have a "vanity" ford-trucks.com email address.
> On a similar note, a password change script is being tested.

HOLY COOL BAT KEN!!! Let me know, I'm still interested :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:59:17 -0500
From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: What is it? (390/360)

>Bought a motor & tran out of 74 3/4 from wrecking yard.
>
>Was told it was a 390 but on receipt they had 360.
>
>Intake has d4teo425824 stamped on rear top.
>
>Tranny has 7301097 902 on top plate.
>
>Anyone?
>
Welcome to FE-land, home of the ORIGINAL modular V8. Most 360 and 390
engines are externally indistinguishable from one another, and lots of FE
parts interchange. Therefore, the engine may not be stock, and it may
not be the original engine for that truck. Assuming that it is, if the
intake is a 4V its a 390. 2V could go either way. You may even find a
crusty old decal on a valve cover, which may or may not help. The
casting number of the crank is probably 2T or 2TA if 360, or 3U or 2UA if
390. Not necessarily, though. To be sure, measure the stroke.

The 360, 390, and 410 Merc share a 4.05" bore. The 390 stroke is 3.78".
The 360 is a 390 with a 352 crank: 3.50" stroke. The 410 is a 390 with a
428 crank: 3.98" stroke. Rods and pistons differ: long rods and full
skirts for the 360, short rods and slipper skirts for the others. May I
recommend "How to Rebuild Big Block Ford Engines" by Steve Christ? It's
the FE bible (no pun intended) and availiable from Summit.

I am going through the same ordeal as you are. My junkyard "360" turned
out to be an FT block with FE heads. I haven't dropped the pan yet to ID
the internals... could it be a 428 crank? Probably not, but fingers
crossed. BTW, does anyone know how available (and how expensive) 428
guts are? I might want to build this block as a 428 and drop it into a
street rod 66-ish F100, along with the C6, 9" rear, power steering and
disk brakes from my battered '73.

Assuming, of course, the unlikely coincidence of having time and money
availiable simultaneously... lordjanusz

'94 F150 (300ci, will be 460 someday...)
'73 F100 (FT block, will be 428 someday...)
'97 Saturn (hey, will a 460 fit...? Or maybe a Caddy Northstar...hmm)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:13:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Pat's sig (OT) was OEM Tires

Jim noticed:

> >Pat Brown
> >Sebastopol, California
> >'70 F-250 Crew Cab FE360/T-18
> >'87 Bronco II
> >'94 T-bird
> >'83 freakin 280ZX with a blown head gasket! Wanna trade, Jim?
>
> Well, you, oh resident of CA, known as the land of Datsun ad infinitum no
> rustus did use either of the magic words: Turbo or 5-speed. So, what are
> you saying you wanna trade me to get it off your hands?
>
> What was that mileage sign outside your city limits? Nashville - 2,483
> miles?
>
> Chuckle - - actually wonder how long that tag line has been there and I
> hadn't caught it.
>

Just testing you to see if you read all this stuff:-) I threw it on
there last night, remembering you complaining about having to work
on your truck instead of your z. I'll trade your truck for my daughter's
Z, 'course you'll have to talk her into it first :-). At 155k, I think
I'll end up replacing a lot more than just a head gasket. Hmmm, it is a
5 speed, no turbo, t-top, no rust :-)

FTC: I'd rather be working on my truck!

Still Pat Brown, see sig above

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:18:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine swap

From: cdailey hhs.state.ne.us (Chad Dailey)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Engine swap
Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:18:01 GMT

> manifolds (headers would be cool!), or other incidentals that might grab
> me by the 'short and curlies'?

Only thing I can think of off hand is the different way the 6 is
mounted. The boys say an FE engine is a much better swap from
a 240 due to this since they use the same mount points.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:46:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: sammcgee scn.org (SCN User)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Timing problem??

Hello,

I've got a '77 F250 with a 460, an edelbrock perfomer manifold w/carter
750 carb on a 1.5" phenolic spacer. I just replaced the coil and control
module w/stock oem replacements because the coil was bad and I figured it
was time to change the module too. After starting the engine and playing
around with the timing/idle mixture/idle speed, the unported vacuum
reading is about 23" mercury and the truck is running like a champ. After
driving/heating up, it runs like crap, and the vacuum reading drops to
about 10" mercury, and the unburned gas vapors just about choke me and
bring tears to my eyes. Any ideas? I'm stumped.

Geoff Simpson
Covington, WA.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:50:50 -0700
From: MC
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Question on FE clutch size??

Hi guys, I was just wondering if this question had been answered yet,
and if so.....What is the answer??? I am also about to replace the
clutch on my truck (390/np435) and would like to have the parts handy
before I tear it apart. I will probably pull the engine out instead of
messing with the tranny and transfercase. Besides, I think I have a
broken motor mount so I can replace that at the same time. 2 birds with
one stone kinda thing, ya know! Also, has anyone ever put in a
Centerforce clutch? Are they anygood? Are they as good as they claim
in the 4x4 magazines? Is the price going to force me to eat bread and
water for the next month?

Joe & Jen DeLaurentis wrote:

> Hey FE Owners,
>
> I wanted to buy a clutch for the 390 today but when I got there
> the guy asked if i had a 11.5" or a 12" clutch????I have no idea
> since I'm swapping this motor in place of a small block!Does that
> 1/2 inch make a differnce..Is there different flywheels then too???
> It also list 2 different size pilot bearings...the ouside diameter
> is different???
> Any help?
> Joe
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



- --
Draygo
Insert something cool here....


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:49:00 -0700
From: Rob Bryan
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1965 F-100 240 ci color

A few years ago I had a '68 F-100 with a 240 and it was a mustard yellow
color. Unfortunately, the thing was pretty rusty and when a friend borrowed
it, the cops thought it was abandoned and impounded it! Even though it was
currently registered! The fuzz wanted too much $$$ to get it out, so my
friend gave me some $$$ to pay for it...didn't matter since I got it for
free anyway since it wasn't running. But to get it running, all I needed
was a new rotor, plug wires, and a rebuild kit to fix the leaking carter YF
1bbl.

So after having that truck, I'm looking for another truck of the same
vintage to keep around here for yard work etc... I was hoping to find a
68-72 F-250 with a 300 six and a 4-spd. I haven't had much luck. I seem to
be finding mainly F-100's with 240's and 360's all with 3-on-the-tree. And
those I do find are rusty and the owners want over $2K for them! Ridiculous!

Hope the color info helped
Rob Bryan


At 8:01 AM -0500 08/21/98, jschanba admin.fsu.edu wrote:
> I still need information concerning the original color of the 1965
> F-100 240 ci engine color as it came from the factory. I'm very sure
> my engine was black and I have a friend with the same experience. I
> need documentation for official judging. Thanks
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:56:33 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil

amsoil and redline have synbth ATF. redline in fact sells 2 types, street and racing only.
sleddog

ps-expect to pay about 50 bucks for 2.5 gallons at least.

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:00 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Longer WAS: oil

Now if I can just find the ATF somewhere.........:-(

- -- Gary --



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:56:14 -0700
From: Rob Bryan
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - modular engines

Well, I can't speak for the GM engines, but I know that the Ford modular V8
blocks are cast as V8's or V10's, not bolted together out of pieces. The
heads are cast as 4 or 5 cylinder assemblies as well. Just like the FE,
385, W, C/M series Ford engines were. If you want to see pictures of a
Triton mod truck engine being made, check out www.fordworldnews.com as they
have a big article on it. But the original poster was correct, in this case
"modular" means using common machining equipment and parts like pistons,
rods, and valves.

Also, unlike a Honda and like your 351M, the Mod V8 and V10 use a steel
timing chain. And in most cars with a belt, it needs to be changed at 60
not 80K.

Later,
Rob Bryan


At 9:29 AM -0500 08/21/98, John LaGrone wrote:
>I haven't read all of the mail yet, so sorry if this is a repeat. A modular
>engine means that the block is not cast in one piece like the traditional
>cast iron V8s we all have. Instead, several pieces are cast, often from
>different metals, machined and then bolted together with gaskets where the
>modules mate. Often the water jacket and head(s) are aluminum with cast....


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