61-79-list-digest Friday, August 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 413



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil
RE: FTE 61-79 - e-check woes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hardened valve seats
FTE 61-79 - The Comosocki Crawl
FTE 61-79 - Re: OEM Tires WAS U-Joints

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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:36:02 -0500
From: Jim McCarty
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Mobil 1 - Long WAS: oil

Mike Schwall wrote:
>
> At 03:15 AM 8/20/98 , you wrote:
> >Date sent: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:11:35 -0500
> >From: Mike Schwall
> >Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - oil
> >
> >> such as Mobil 1 (if you call Mobil 1 a true full synthetic oil). Then
> >
> >You knew you were going to get this question didn't you? Whatdayamean
> >"If"?? I thought it was fully synthetic? Maybe that's why Amsoil is double
> >the cost?
> >-- Gary --
>
> Yeah, I was waiting for someone to ask this. To make a long boring
> technical discussion short, Mobil 1 uses a synthesized hydrocarbon base
> (same hydrocarbon base used in regular dino oil, except it was made in a
> lab not by nature). "True" synthetic oil uses a diester or polyester
> (polymer) base. It's very hard to get technical information on what type
> base synthetic manufacturers use. I emailed Mobil 1 and asked if they use
> a synthesized hydrocarbon base or a diester base. Below is the reply:
> __________
> Mr. Schwall,
>
> Thank you for contacting Mobil.
>
> Synthetic motor oil is specially formulated using synthetic base stocks
> - polyalphaolefins and esters.
>
> Polyalphaolefins (PAOs) are made by chemically knitting molecules of
> ethylene (2 carbon molecules ) into carbon chains of uniform length and
> shape. The PAOs are then combined with an ester (a compound formed from
> the reaction of alcohol with certain acids). This results in a lubricant
> that remains liquid and slippery under the widest possible range of
> engine conditions.
>
> If you have any additional questions, you may contact us at our E-mail
> address: lubes ffx.mobil.com or by phone at 1-800-ASKMOBIL.
> _________
> What gets me is they don't say Mobil 1 uses this base or not, just
> "synthetic motor oil..." On the Mobil 1 web site under the Mobil 1 motor
> oil heading, they don't disclose the base used. Under the gear oil
> heading, however, they disclose they use a synthesized hydrocarbon base.
>
> The only true 100% synthetic diester/polyester (polymer) base oils that I
> know of are from NEO, Torco, and Red Line (can be found on their web
> sites). That is why they cost more (over $5 more) than regular off the
> shelf Mobil 1, Castrol synthetic, Quaker State synthetic, etc. They use a
> lower quality synthesized base to keep the cost down so consumers will buy
> their "synthetic oil". It is in fact synthetic oil, I'm not saying it's
> not, but the point is the quality and type of synthetic base.
>
> I personally use Mobil 1 10W-30. I have no reason to pay the extra money
> when I don't need the higher quality oil. I do have NEO 75W-90HD in my new
> rear end (new bearings, 3.89:1 gears, and TruTrac), however. I will also
> have it in my manual trans after I rebuild it.
>
> Mike
>
I understand AMSOIL is 100% synthetic.
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:50:53 -0400
From: "Ken Schneider"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - e-check woes

> >then? I have noticed the occasional puff of white smoke at startup. I
> >think this means that the valve stem seals or the valve guides themselves
> >are gone. If the guides are shot then can I bandaid it with new
> stem seals?
> >What is a good way to narrow this down?

A white puff of smoke? Does your tranny eat fluid for no reason? If so,
it's your Vaccum Modulator on the Tranny. This happened to be the case on
my Dad's 87 Bronco (302/C6).

Ken

68 F-100 360/C6
80 Ch*vy Chevette, Winter Beater

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:42:37 -0500
From: "James Elliott"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hardened valve seats

SnipSnipSnip
> I have a 71 F250 Ranger XLT 2WD CS with 360
>
Snip
> Should I
>worry about putting hardened valve seats in or will the heads be ok if I
>continue to use the lead additive?
Snip
>I've heard conflicting views on this. My opinion is that if you
>don't ride it hard it oughta be ok without the hardened seats

FWIW - the guy who does all my machine work, who happens to be a Ford fan,
tell me that of all the engines he works on, the 360/390 are "one of the few
that often need hardened seats". It is not the gas as an issue really, it is
apparently just indemic to the design/materials that those engines have a
tendency to pound the seats and he normally has to change them out. He feels
very strongly, and, in fact, on his recommendation, just tonight (re: my
earlier "urgent - questions, there may be some buys out there" post) I
bought a set of 390
GT heads for $100 because the seats had not been pounded. He pointed out
that if decent (fnon-pounded) heads could be had for 100, and only need
"sprucing up", it was a deal versus the set of 390 heads he had just done
that needed all new seats and guides, and ran up a shop bill of just over
$400.
I know from my experience with Da***n engines at 9.5:1 compression, I
have just used plus or premium unleaded and run for 60,000 miles on
non-hardened seats that were just surfaced on a valve job after they had
already seen over 130K miles. I have torn that engine down and the seats are
still serviceable.
One of the hot-rod magazines a couple of years ago had an interesting
editorial on exactly this issue. They pointed out that real hot-rods are
often built to "abusive" (read that high-performance, high-compression)
specs, and one would expect them to show the problem if it is really an
issue. In an informal survey of compatriots, no one could come up with a
single instance of major damage caused by unleaded fuel veersus non-hardened
seats. It was pointed out that there is a very good possibitlity (put forth
in a very logical way) that the whole "lubricity" of lead issue was actually
a very contrived propaganda campaign on the part of the oil companies to
justify pricing strategies on higher octane non-lead fuels. Personally, I
figure any engine I build will only get hardened seats if the existing seats
are slam worn out AND the cost of hardened seats is not to much greater.

Jim Elliott



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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:12:09 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - The Comosocki Crawl

> > You can really tear up the asphalt on a comosackie 3
> >cylinder 2 stroke too
>
> My 8 yo nephew at the drags; "That sounds like a dirt bike"
> My response "Thats an H3 750 Kawasaki"
> 9 seconds later I looked at him, his eyes just about fell out.

Yeah, those those things were Satan's own. I remember a snotty kid in
high school who had a Norton 850 Commando who made the mistake of
choosing off with one of Satan's Little Overpowered Pretzels.

It was interesting for the first 50 feet, but no stiff upper lip could
help that poor Norton.
- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:05:53 -0700
From: Pat Brown
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: OEM Tires WAS U-Joints

Ox wrote:
>
> Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>
> > Why to OEM tires run so smooth and almost any retrofit tire has a tad more
> > vibration or noise? Same reason, they have special marks to line them up
> > and mate them with a compatible rim before installation. We don't have
> > those tools to work with since after market tires do not come marked for us
> > and neither do rims.
>
> I've seen a small yellow circles on some tires indicating it's high
> spot (Bridgestone Desert Duelers I had have this mark). I had thought,
> mistakenly, at one time that this spot was supposed to go near the
> valve. I have balanced rims only on a balancer and it does work. You can
> match up this high spot opposite a rim high spot if you want to go
> through the trouble.
>
Hmmmm. I just put new tires and rims on my F-250. There were fluorescent
green
tags stuck on each rim, I assumed for the balance machine. Before I
installed
them (truck was apart for brakes), I removed the stickers and noticed a
distinct
"O" stamped in to rim, exactly where each sticker was - all five rims.
Could this
be related to Gary's 'special marks'?

Marko, Azie, Michael, thanks for the rim tips. Once I got Goodyear guy
to
stop regurgitating 'White Spokes' everytime I asked about rims, he went
in
and looked in a book. I ended up ordering 16*7, OEM style rims. Thet're
made by
Accuride, Canada, and happen to have a Ford oval and lettering stamped
in them.
US$52 each (plus shipping), just like you guys said. A set of
235/85r16's, and
it's a whole new truck! Bye-Bye split rims! Now for the near-frozen
kingpin
and the loose tie rod ("I wander where she's a-goin' next", someone here
said:-).

Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

'70 F-250 Crew Cab FE360/T-18
'87 Bronco II
'94 T-bird
'83 freakin 280ZX with a blown head gasket! Wanna trade, Jim?

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