61-79-list-digest Tuesday, August 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 407



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Left Pull When Braking Resolved
FTE 61-79 - Regular, Limited Slip, and Posi "identification"
FTE 61-79 - Pilot bearing
Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST
FTE 61-79 - Re: Hello from a list newbie
FTE 61-79 - Re: Pilot bearing
Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST
Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST
FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
FTE 61-79 - 4 row radiators
Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
FTE 61-79 - Eye and Ear Candy
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Mystery Solved, Disaster Avoided
Re: FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM
FTE 61-79 - 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Mystery Solved, Disaster Avoided
Re: FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM
Re: FTE 61-79 - 4 row radiators
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - Regular, Limited Slip, and Posi "identification"
FTE 61-79 - friends truck
Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck
Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck
RE: FTE 61-79 - friends truck
FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?
Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck
Re: FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?
Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

=======================================================================

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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 06:40:56 -0400
From: "Karl Simon"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Left Pull When Braking Resolved

A while ago I left a message asking why my 1977 F150 4x4 pulls to the left
under braking. Whoever said it may be a restricted brake line was correct.
There was nothing visibly wrong with the line. I talked to a mechanic who
said the rubber lines sometimes develop an internal "flap" and act as a one
way type of valve.

Karl

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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 05:45:12 -0600
From: "Michael White"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Regular, Limited Slip, and Posi "identification"

If you raise the rear tires off the ground and spin them, the Posi will
spin the same direction, and the regular rear axle will spin the tires in
the opposite direction. What does the limited slip do when you spin the
tires? Was limited slip even an option in 1969 for the F series? Don't all
Posi's have a letter followed be a number in the axle code (door plate), and
regular's have only numbers? If limited slip is availible for 1969 then what
type of axle code will it be?

BTW:) Is there a good reason I would not want to put Posi in a 69 F series
2wd with an auto trans?

Oh yea,.... I almost forgot:) When I took my Dana 60 Track Lock Posi into
one of the largest shops in SLC, Utah to have it serviced, the guys eyes got
real big and he practically started drooling all over it as he held it in
his arms like his first born child and said, "Wow... haven't seen one of
these for awhile". Just how rare are these things, and what are they worth?

Michael
SLC, Utah

69 F250 360 auto (reg rear axle)
69 F250 390 T18 Posi 3.54


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:13:00 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pilot bearing

Cam Kenny writes: >> do i need a pilot bearing for it?

To the best of my knowledge, all standard trannys require a pilot shaft
bearing. (keeps the input shaft in line with the crankshaft)

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:23:20 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST

From: sdelanty sonic.net
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:25:10 -0700
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST

> NOOOO! It's not Steve VS FTE list! Steve loves the FTE list!
> I wouldn't drop FTE simply because I tire of the weekly engine
> wars, but I DO have to drop some mail lists so I spend less
> time in front of the computer and more time on other projects.

I know exactly what you mean, Steve. I get so bored with my job that the
lists keep me sane but they tend to get repetitive so I've been thinking about
programing again which would end the bordome but I can't do both. When I
program I have to lock myself in a rubber room with no windows.........or
internet lists :-( What a choice! :-(

With all my natural mechanical savvy I've still learned a lot from the guys on
the list and appreciate it so I give back what I can and it's fun but.........life
really does have other aspects and one must make choices.........:-)



Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:31:39 -0400
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Hello from a list newbie

Model Year: 78
Series: F100 - 4x2 Pickup
Engine: 6 Cyl, 300ci (4.9L) 1bbl
Assembly Plant: Ontario Truck
Transmission: Automatic, Ford C6
Front Axle: P.S.
Rear Axle: 2.75 3750lb Ford

Were C6's put behind the 300 I6? I would guess that your transmission is
really a C4. I have used online vin decoders with numbers from my 77 F150
and they also said I had a C6. The transmission my truck is a C4 for
sure. It is also powered by a 300 I6.

Look at the pan on the bottom of the transmission. If it is rectangular
than it is a C4.


Jon E. Purut
Pickup65 juno.com
JCPurut worldnet.att.net
Visit my site http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~JCPurut

1964 F500 Face lift in progress
1965 F100 Taking off the road for engine swap
1965 F100 Lots of pieces
1977 F150 Putting on the road to use as daily driver
1970 Mustang Fastback

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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:33:14 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Pilot bearing

From: "Cam and Wilma Kenny"
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:25:54 -0400

> I have a 1977 F 250 3/4 ton 4x4 standard trany with bo low and soon to be
> powered with a 390... everything is stock except for the 390. do i need a
> pilot bearing for it? some people i have talked to say yes, some say no.
> Any input would be a great help. thanks.

All manual trannys require a pilot bearing or bushing to support the front end
of the tranny input shaft when the clutch is pushed in. If it weren't for the
clutch it wouldn't be necessary. Will yours have a clutch? Well then.......:-)


Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:45:45 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>
> so I've been thinking about
> programing again which would end the bordome but I can't do both. When I
> program I have to lock myself in a rubber room with no windows.........or
> internet lists :-( What a choice! :-(
>
> With all my natural mechanical savvy I've still learned a lot from the guys on
> the list and appreciate it so I give back what I can and it's fun but.........life
> really does have other aspects and one must make choices.........:-)
>

That will last about 3 minutes, then you'll be back ;-). If your
anything like me, and I know you are, you couldn't live without this
stuff.

OX
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:43:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie

From: "John & Denise Haydt"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:13:53 -0400

> 3. What does the '2.75 3750lb Ford' mean regarding the rear axle?

Can't help you with the rest of it but the 2.75 almost guarantees a wide ratio
C-6 which is VERY GOOD :-) Now when you put the 460 in you will have
exactly the right power train :-) Well, I mean if you ever decide too :-) Got
to be carefull how you word things on this list so you don't get accused
of.........:-)

I'm a little curious about the F-100 designation though. I didn't know thay
made them in 78? Thought they were all 150's?

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:46:19 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie

From: sdelanty sonic.net
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:25:11 -0700
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie

> bearings. I've got the 3750lb axle under my '71 F100 and the wheel
> bearings for mine cost something like $75 each instead of the $30 ones
> that most of the other axles use. Sigh...

Are they A-20's? I've never seen any heavier than those but my experience is
limited to only a hand full of axles?

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:11:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST

>Steve, what kind of mushrooms did you eat up in the mountains on that trek
It wasnt mushrooms, it was HOMEBREW, haven't you seen his 'FTE Equivalent' brewery on his web site?

Steve, if you're getting bored with the list, try switching to digest mode for a while. Its much easier to scan through quickly, or even just ignore it
for a while by moving the 1 mail into a folder which you can peruse at another time, or simply delete it.

I especially enjoy your input as you are one of the few members who can abstract the mechanics of a truck (i.e., the post reguarding the heat
transfer properties of water in the coolant system).



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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:02:53 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - STEVE VS FTE LIST

At 10:25 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
> NOOOO! It's not Steve VS FTE list! Steve loves the FTE list!
> I wouldn't drop FTE simply because I tire of the weekly engine
> wars, but I DO have to drop some mail lists so I spend less
> time in front of the computer and more time on other projects.

- -snip-

You could always switch to digest mode. :-) What ever you
do, keep in touch.

Ken Payne
kpayne ford-trucks.com


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:11:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM

I repainted the front grill on my 66 and have put it all back together, but I need to
reaim the headlights before I go the get my truck inspected. I seem to remeber a
couple of methods for aiming the lights by parking in front of a wall and making a
few measurements but I cant find any of my stuff on doing so. Anybody out there
know how to do this?

Thanks
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:21:25 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie

At 08:43 AM 8/18/98 +0000, you wrote:
>From: "John & Denise Haydt"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
>Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:13:53 -0400
>
- -snip-
>
>I'm a little curious about the F-100 designation though. I didn't know thay
>made them in 78? Thought they were all 150's?
>
>Greed is the Creed of the Breed
>that did away with the Steed
>Visteon, Delphi..........:-(
>
>-- Gary --

Ford stopped producing F100s in large numbers in 81. I have seen
them as new as 83 though.

Ken Payne
kpayne ford-trucks.com


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:27:49 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 4 row radiators

My radiator arrived at the local HiLo on Friday, 4 days late. It had been
dropped or had something dropped on it. At any rate, I refused to accept
it, so they ordered another one. The Houston warehouse had 7 on order not
counting mine, the Kansas City warehouse had 4 on order. I couldn't see the
other 2 warehouse's status. The parts houses don't stock them because there
is no demand. Duh. And we wonder why the Japanese are kicking our $$ in
the business world. Anyway, all the rest of you guys who have radiators on
order from HiLo are in the same boat I'm in.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, bashed in left door, new left front fender
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI EAOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (The software box said Windows95 or better, so I
bought a Mac.)
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:26:40 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie

At 10:21 AM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 08:43 AM 8/18/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>From: "John & Denise Haydt"
>>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hello from a list newbie
>>Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:13:53 -0400
>>
>-snip-
>>
>>I'm a little curious about the F-100 designation though. I didn't know
thay
>>made them in 78? Thought they were all 150's?
>>
>>Greed is the Creed of the Breed
>>that did away with the Steed
>>Visteon, Delphi..........:-(
>>
>>-- Gary --
>
>Ford stopped producing F100s in large numbers in 81. I have seen
>them as new as 83 though.
>
>Ken Payne
>kpayne ford-trucks.com

Dunno if its needed, but for partial proof, I have driven my grandfathers
82 F100. I'm not sure I'd classify it as more than a light truck, but it
had the 3 on the tree which is all he'll drive. 302s with 3spd stick and
that's it ... sometimes the brakes even work. Never guess its a farm truck
would ya ?

:)

Just my 2cents

Bill

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
for truck make it ..../Trucks/truck.html
for car make it ..../Cars/mustang.html
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:51:57 -0500
From: jedolson juno.com (JOHN E DOLSON)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Eye and Ear Candy

When I was at the Street Machine Nats in DuQouin IL this year I saw not
one but two gorgeous 427 Cobras, and a pure stock 428CJ '69'Stang, and a
real '63 1/2 Hi-Riser Galaxie. And I got to hear both of the Cobras run.

One Cobra had a Hi-Riser that the owner claimed to have dynoed at 690
hp, and the other was a Tunnel-Port, each with 2 4 bbls. You talk about
eye candy, this was ear candy too.

The Galaxie had the big hoses running to the air box and a hood blister.
That was one tough looking car.

I will always love those old FE's.

> Saw a 427 Side Oiler w/2 4bbls.,Cobra valve covers & Air cleaner and
> factory cast iron headers under the hood of a 61 F-100 S/B unibody
> last weekend.Could not imagine a prettier engine except possibly the
> blown SOHC I saw in a T-Bucket once.


Last month at the cruise night in Jefferson City MO. there was a '67-'69
F100 , Beautiful truck, Maroon, Had a 427 SOHC under the hood. It was
real eye candy!

_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:05:16 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Mystery Solved, Disaster Avoided

At 01:11 AM 18/08/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> > They do sound chunky when you dial them in right, don't they? But that's
>> > the beauty of them at idle. WHat do you have total, like when you
walk on
>> > it? You want about 40 degrees in an FE. Mine's timed 10 initial and 41
>> > total.
>
>This one especially. This cam idles at 900 rpms to make that 16 hg, and
>it takes a minute or two to get up there(what's up with that? starts at
>13hg and the needle wiggles a little bit) I'm running 40 degrees total
> 3000rpms, with 12 initial. I've still got quite a bit of blow-by
>coming out the breathing side though. I'm going to try to decarbon the
>rings by putting some 20w and a quart of ATF in and running it for a
>while. I think that the advanced cam might have been blowing down the
>cylinders and let carbon grow under them. If you get carbon under your
>rings it will have blow-by and will keep on building it up. Any other
>suggestions on chemical decarbonization?

Rislone Karb-Out works pretty good, you might also pick up a can of
Chr*sler Combustion Chamber Conditioner. Pour it down the carb, almost
stall the engine, make huge clouds of white smoke, but it does clear out
the crud.

I also think that it could have
>been detonating a little at >2500 cruise with it set that way. I had no
>idea what the timing really was, but could bear a knock at about 55
>up(cruising only, it didn't seem to do it under accelleration). It
>doesn't do it as far as I can tell anymore. Of course that could have
>been the fuel pump eccentric rattling too.

Possibly a lean ping, caused by carbon buildup and localized hot spots on
your pistons/head. The karbout should help.

>I went for a banzai run Sunday afternoon, running through 3rd and up to
>about 75mph in high(4.56's and 31.50 in tires) It hit 6000rpms pulling
>strong, but had sucked the float bowl dry on the Q-jet as I went for
>4th, had to let it catch up, then it swallowed it whole again. Jeez,
>this thing weighs 4800 lbs but goes up to 70 like a car. It will flat
>a** run.

Yup. Now you know why we all love them so much. It's amazing you actually
hung in so long before finding out what an FE can really do.

>
>My son drove it to school for the first time today, and he said that he
>got quite a reaction when he fired it up and they heard that chunkety
>chunkety idle. A real happy boy you can bet.
>
Be careful with that. At my high school we had speed dips in the parking
lot (instead of speed bumps) so we used to fill one of them up with bleach
and put on smokeshows...

Maybe those 31's won't be 31's for very long.... ;-]


marko in vancouver



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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:09:23 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM

At 09:11 AM 18/08/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I repainted the front grill on my 66 and have put it all back together,
but I need to
>reaim the headlights before I go the get my truck inspected. I seem to
remeber a
>couple of methods for aiming the lights by parking in front of a wall and
making a
>few measurements but I cant find any of my stuff on doing so. Anybody out
there
>know how to do this?
>
>Thanks
>Bryan Kirking
>66 Step Side
>352 4 speed
>Houston, Texas
>
>

Bryan: each jurisdiction has its own laws about this sorta stuff. The guy
at the local gas station shud be able to tell you what's proper for your
truck, and shud do it for free too.

One VERY IMPORTANT thing: put NEVER SEEZ on every screw and bolt (even on
where the spring rubs the grill and the bucket) cause the next time you go
to change a headlight you'll be glad you did.

marko in vancouver
marko dsm.ca

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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:20:33 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460

Hey Guys-

Welp, A buddy of mine who I hadn't talked to in years looked me up
yesterday 'cause he needed some work on his truck. To make a long story
short- We pulled a running (and pretty good I might add!) 460 out of his
truck. It was leaking a rear main really bad and he wanted a smaller motor
for his truck.. He decided to put in a long block 351M. I asked him what
he was going to do with the 460, and he asked me if I wanted it- "Sure-
How much?" He told me to take it.

So, now I have a free running 460 and want to learn a little about it.
Some buck-toothed hillbilly had it 'rigged into his truck and I'd be almost
positive that it came out of a lincoln or something like that. The only
numbers I could find on the heads was:

DOVE-C 35

That' mean anything?

Tony
tony pscico.com

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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:26:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Mystery Solved, Disaster Avoided

Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:05:16 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re:Mystery Solved, Disaster Avoided

> Yup. Now you know why we all love them so much. It's amazing you
> actually hung in so long before finding out what an FE can really do.

I thought wild Bill was now a converted member of the BB (as in 385) club?

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:28:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM

Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:09:23 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Headlight AIM

> One VERY IMPORTANT thing: put NEVER SEEZ on every screw and bolt (even on
> where the spring rubs the grill and the bucket) cause the next time you go
> to change a headlight you'll be glad you did.

Yes but............don't tighten sheet metal screws very tight if you put antiseize
on them. The extra lube allows you to put too much pull on the sheet metal
and it will pull the hole (strip).


Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:35:30 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 4 row radiators

At 08:27 AM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>My radiator arrived at the local HiLo on Friday, 4 days late. It had been
>dropped or had something dropped on it. At any rate, I refused to accept
>it, so they ordered another one. The Houston warehouse had 7 on order not
>counting mine, the Kansas City warehouse had 4 on order. I couldn't see the
>other 2 warehouse's status. The parts houses don't stock them because there
>is no demand. Duh. And we wonder why the Japanese are kicking our $$ in
>the business world. Anyway, all the rest of you guys who have radiators on
>order from HiLo are in the same boat I'm in.
>
>
>-John
>

If it had been Japanese, you would have waited 4 weeks for it
to get here from Tokyo. I can't say I blame them for not
stocking them if they don't sell. As to the damage, blame
the shipper. I got a radiator straight from the manufacturer
and was pleased with my purchase. Later got a heater core
from them, again I was pleased. Perhaps yours was an
isolated incident?

Ken Payne
kpayne ford-trucks.com

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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:48:39 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460

Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:20:33 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460

> So, now I have a free running 460 and want to learn a little about it.
> Some buck-toothed hillbilly had it 'rigged into his truck and I'd be
> almost positive that it came out of a lincoln or something like that. The
> only numbers I could find on the heads was:
>
> DOVE-C 35

I believe that's the good ones, 70 vintage. When you do the seal have the
crank ground and fit the main bearings to the mean clearance (about 0.0015-
0.002") rather than the largest and the seal will hold up a lot better. If you
don't grind the crank chances are the new seal will start leaking again very
soon. I've put 3 in mine so far with a bad crank. Next time I pull it the crank
will get the treatment for sure :-(


Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:17:34 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Regular, Limited Slip, and Posi "identification"

From: "Michael White"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Regular, Limited Slip, and Posi "identification"
Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 05:45:12 -0600

> the opposite direction. What does the limited slip do when you spin the
> tires?

The clutches have a preload which will make them act like a locker with no
load on them so they will turn together but you can turn one by itself with the
other on the ground which is what I do to measure the gear ratio because
sometimes they slip a little and throw off the count :-)

> BTW:) Is there a good reason I would not want to put Posi in a 69 F series
> 2wd with an auto trans?

I don't know what the tranny has to do with it but I can't think of any reason
at all not to have one in the rear end of ANY truck but I can think of many
reasons to have one :-)

> "Wow... haven't seen one
> of these for awhile". Just how rare are these things, and what are they
> worth?

Dana 60's have been around a while and so have the trac loc's so I don't
know why he was surprised? Maybe it's one of the early 10 (or what ever)
spline versions?


Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

A friend of mine has a 79 f250 4wd that he completely rebuilt from the
frame up. He is having brake trouble he put everything new on lines,
master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and etc etc... he has a good solid
brake pedal.. It is to solid...when you hit the brakes they are hard as
a rock! It takes a football field to slow it down... any ideas on what
the problem could be??? would be greatly appreciated. He has ran
out of ideas as to what the problem could be. Thanks you Guys are
GREAT.....!!!



RANDY
1970 F100 351W ( KNOCKING) :-(
1978 F150 351M ( DONOR TRUCK ) :-)
1960 FAIRLANE ( FOR SALE )

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:44:48 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

> A friend of mine has a 79 f250 4wd that he completely rebuilt from the
> frame up. He is having brake trouble he put everything new on lines,
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and etc etc... he has a good solid
> brake pedal.. It is to solid...when you hit the brakes they are hard as a
> rock! It takes a football field to slow it down... any ideas on what the
> problem could be??? would be greatly appreciated. He has ran out of
> ideas as to what the problem could be. Thanks you Guys are GREAT.....!!!

Only thing that comes to mind is when he did the lines he may have switched
two at the proportioning valve which could cause all manner of
undocumented phenomena? The reason they come from the factory with
different size fittings but when you do your own you have to use adapters
usually unless you get the right fittings and make your own lines with your
double flare tool kit.

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:58:43 -0400
From: luxjo thecore.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

RANDY D wrote:
>
> A friend of mine has a 79 f250 4wd that he completely rebuilt from the
> frame up. He is having brake trouble he put everything new on lines,
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and etc etc... he has a good solid
> brake pedal.. It is to solid...when you hit the brakes they are hard as
> a rock! It takes a football field to slow it down... any ideas on what
> the problem could be??? would be greatly appreciated. He has ran
> out of ideas as to what the problem could be. Thanks you Guys are
> GREAT.....!!!
>

May have a stuck proportioning valve. After replacing most of a brake
system, the proportioning valve may scoot over to one side when you
first bleed one end of the system. This is a safety device that closes
down half of the braking system if a leak develops. It may be stuck
there allowing no fluid to pass though either the front or rear brakes,
hence no pedal travel. If it is stuck one way or the other, the Emerg
brake light (which doubles as a brake failure light) shoudl be on.
Sometimes, this can be burned out or not working and you won't realize
the prop valve is stuck and not centered. You can check this by jacking
up truck and hitting brakes, if front or rear brakes are not working,
then thats it (rotate tires by hand to see). If that is it, you can try
rebleeding the opposite end of prop valve (opposite set of brakes) to
try and force piston the other way. Open the bleeder a good bit and that
should force a pressure drop on the open side of proportioning valve,
hopefully cenetering it.

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:09:02 -0500
From: "Woosley, Chris"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

Booster could be bad. Ever tried to stop a vehicle with power brakes
when the engine has stalled? It's a real workout. I'd check for vacuum
leaks and check the check valve at the booster. If these pass, I'd
remove the check valve, and perform a vacuum check on the booster
itself. This requires a vacuum pump, vacuum gauge, and an old check
valve. The check valve must be made to allow air to travel in either
direction (break it internally). This test is similar to a radiator
test. Draw a vacuum and watch the gauge. It should hold the same
reading. If the reading drops as soon as you stop pumping, or you never
attain a reading, booster is leaking (provided you have made sure that
the pump hose and check valve are sealed to each other and to the
booster housing). Just an idea. Good luck.

Chris Woosley
M-D/TOTCO INSTRUMENTATION
manufacturing engineer
cwoosley cp.varco.com
(512) 340-5594 fax (512) 340-5225


- -----Original Message-----
From: Gary, 78 BBB [mailto:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 8:45 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck


From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

> A friend of mine has a 79 f250 4wd that he completely rebuilt from the
> frame up. He is having brake trouble he put everything new on lines,
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and etc etc... he has a good solid
> brake pedal.. It is to solid...when you hit the brakes they are hard
as a
> rock! It takes a football field to slow it down... any ideas on what
the
> problem could be??? would be greatly appreciated. He has ran out
of
> ideas as to what the problem could be. Thanks you Guys are
GREAT.....!!!

Only thing that comes to mind is when he did the lines he may have
switched
two at the proportioning valve which could cause all manner of
undocumented phenomena? The reason they come from the factory with
different size fittings but when you do your own you have to use
adapters
usually unless you get the right fittings and make your own lines with
your
double flare tool kit.

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:08:51 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?

I've got an original '78 300 I6 with 130k miles which has been sitting for
about two years. With tips from the group, have it running again but
notice quite a bit of valve "clatter" when under load (the more load +
higher rpms, the more the clatter ,etc.) About 6 years ago, I replaced all
the hydrolic valve lifters and tighened down the rocker arms by a method
suggested by a neighbor: "run the engine, keep tightening down the rockers
until it stops making noise and you're done." Is there a more scientific
method to adjusting the valves than by sound? Am I even on the right track
to fix this excessive clattering?

John

77 E100, SWB, 300, 4spd. man.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:20:36 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - friends truck

>A friend of mine has a 79 f250 4wd that he completely rebuilt from the
>frame up. He is having brake trouble he put everything new on lines,
>master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and etc etc... he has a good solid
>brake pedal.. It is to solid...when you hit the brakes they are hard as
>a rock! It takes a football field to slow it down... any ideas on what
>the problem could be??? would be greatly appreciated. He has ran
>out of ideas as to what the problem could be. Thanks you Guys are
>GREAT.....!!!
>
Have you checked the vaccuum lines to the power booster ? It sounds like
you either have power brakes and they're not working, or you don't have
power brakes, but you have a power brake pedal (different pivot points on
some vehicles, not sure in this exact case). Either way I'd be checking
for the power assist angle.


Just my 2cents

Bill

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
for truck make it ..../Trucks/truck.html
for car make it ..../Cars/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:25:29 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?

>I've got an original '78 300 I6 with 130k miles which has been sitting for
>about two years. With tips from the group, have it running again but
>notice quite a bit of valve "clatter" when under load (the more load +
>higher rpms, the more the clatter ,etc.) About 6 years ago, I replaced all
>the hydrolic valve lifters and tighened down the rocker arms by a method
>suggested by a neighbor: "run the engine, keep tightening down the rockers
>until it stops making noise and you're done." Is there a more scientific
>method to adjusting the valves than by sound? Am I even on the right track
>to fix this excessive clattering?
>
I thought you were supposed to add a turn, but I've never seen a hydraulic
lifter Ford with adjustable rockers, though I haven't spent any time on 6's
either. Dad tried to adjust the lifters on my Cougar the first time we had
it apart, since those aren't adjustable in this manner it made a heck of a
racket, didn't run very well either ...

Also since the truck has been sitting a while, I'd wonder if the lifters
weren't stuck. We had that problem on our 50 Buick, even though we'd
driven it on and off, one of the lifters liked to stick. Ever pull the
head on a straight 8 ... its not light.

Anyway good luck, I may be totally off base here, as I seem to be off base
everywhere else today too.

Just my 2cents

Bill

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ranger3.cc.iastate.edu/cars.html
for truck make it ..../Trucks/truck.html
for car make it ..../Cars/mustang.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:36:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?

Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:08:51 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Valve clatter, any tips?

> I've got an original '78 300 I6 with 130k miles which has been sitting for
> about two years. With tips from the group, have it running again but
> notice quite a bit of valve "clatter" when under load (the more load +
> higher rpms, the more the clatter ,etc.)

Load should have no affect on valve clatter since the valves don't feel the
load. This sounds more like spark knock to me or god forbid, just plain
knock.....:-( Mains will knock under load but generally have a high
frequency, rather dull (duller that valve clatter) sound. If you have A/C it
could be the compressor pump pulley bearings causing the clutch to chatter
when not engaged, fuel pump excentric or timing chain slapping the front
cover (not sure if 300 has gears or chain?)

The only six I remember doing required taking out all lash and turning one
turn on the adjuster with engine not running but that was a 250 or 240.
Theoretically the spring in the lifter is weaker than the valve spring so you....


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