61-79-list-digest Saturday, August 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 401



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW-RECOVERY TANKS
Re: FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW-RECOVERY TANKS
FTE 61-79 - FUEL STARVATION
FTE 61-79 - IN-CAB FUEL TANK FIX
Re: FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW-RECOVERY TANKS
FTE 61-79 - FUEL STARVATION PROBLEMS
FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK LOCATION
FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK LOCATION
FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK PICKUP TUBE
FTE 61-79 - Re: '73-'79 Crew Cabs
Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150
FTE 61-79 - RE: King pins
Re: FTE 61-79 - 65F100, Fuel Tank Location
Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150
FTE 61-79 - Re: Auto versus manual
Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150
FTE 61-79 - Crew Cabs

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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:38:28 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW-RECOVERY TANKS

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:27:48 +0000
> From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW - RECOVERY TANKS
22:15:12 -0400


why would you need a pressure cap on the overflow too ? ?
>
> Not on the tank, on the radiator. The cap has to have a way to keep the
coolant from coming out the top and hold pressure before leting it escape
into the over flow so it requires two layers of seal AFAIK?

Gary

Yes, on the radiator! ! Thats what I thought you meant.
Yes, two layers of seals.
NO, I have no idea what AFAIK means.
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
1970 F100 (ret)


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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:03:15 -0700
From: John Gillespie
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW-RECOVERY TANKS

Jerry,
AFAIK = As Far As I Know

Jerry wrote:
NO, I have no idea what AFAIK means.
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:04:33 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FUEL STARVATION

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:50:39 -0400
> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fuel starvation
>
> Jerry writes: >>One possible conclusion is that the tube is
rusted.....so badly in spots that it is rusted through the walls of the
tube so that when the level of the fuel gets below the rust hole........the
suction of the fuel pump draws a little air in with the fuel and lots of
bubbles get sent to the fuel pump.
>
> Theres one other possibility that I did not think of previously ......
The fuel pump is old and worn and as the level of fuel gets lower in the
tank it becomes harder to "draw" from... due to the added weight of the
length
> of the pull... Does this make sense???
>
> Azie
> Ardmore, Al.

Yup, it does, but the fule pump (make that fuel pump)
is 5 months new.
If you think about this for a minute, the pump has to pull fuel up a 24
inch tube, horizontally another 18, down another 24, across about 12, then
48 to the pump, and up 12 into the pump. Any under-frame mounted tank
doesnt have that much up & down distance to travel, etc.
I wonder if Ford made in-cab-tank-pumps with a stronger suction side to
compensate for this?
Was there any in-cab tanks in the 73-77 range that had an electric pump
built into the sending unit ? I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if there
was. New pickup and boost pump too.
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
1970 F100 (ret)



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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:11:07 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - IN-CAB FUEL TANK FIX

>
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:53:57 -0700
> From: "Hogan, Tom"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: IN-CAB FUEL TANK WOES
>
> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:11:06 -0400
> From: "Jerry"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - IN-CAB FUEL TANK WOES
>
>
> ?
> Has anyone successfully replaced a pickup tube inside the tank
??.........or am I looking at buying a new one ?
> Jerry
> =========================
> Jerry,
> Just an idea from the dark. Could you use some thin wall soft copper
tubing
> and "sleeve" the inside of the fuel pickup tube? Haven't tried this but
seems if the ID of the original pickup tube is big enough then you could
slide another tube down inside it. If the difference in ID wasn't too
great then you shouldn't loose much fuel flow. Otherwise you would have to
have the origninal cut out and a new one welded in which would scare the
hell out of me if I had to do it.
>
> Good luck
> Tom H.
Scaring the hell out of you ? ? ? What about me ? ? ?
The liner pipe sounds OK except I just managed to poke some welding rod
down it. Its kinda narrow. I think the liner would restrict too much
flow. I'm a little worried about the volume now (assuming it was
alright). I would hate to lessen performance for the sake of a quick fix.
Thanks for the ideas.>
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
1970 F100 (ret)

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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - OVERFLOW-RECOVERY TANKS

>NO, I have no idea what AFAIK means.

As Far As I Know it means as far as I know...

I gotta stop drinkin SWMBO's home brew....


Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox
'94 Taurus SHO - SWMBO's new car!!
and since most are listing all thier cars:
'72 Capri - Rockette's Toy, aka - SWMBO
'73 Capri - My Toy / Daily Driver
'73 MGB-GT Our Toy
'70 Torino GT My "New" Car


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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:19:10 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FUEL STARVATION PROBLEMS

> From: Bill Adams
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - IN-CAB FUEL TANK WOES
>
> >Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:11:06 -0400
> >From: "Jerry"
> >Subject: FTE 61-79 - IN-CAB FUEL TANK WOES
> >
> >Today was the day I was going to clean out my fuel pickup tube to fix
the
> >p***-poor performance when it runs low on fuel. So much for the good
news. That it is rusted through the walls of the tube so that when the
level of the fuel gets below the rust hole........the suction of the fuel
pump draws a little air in with the fuel and lots of bubbles get sent to
the fuel pump.

Jerry
>
> Have you replaced all the rubber hoses on the suction side of the fuel
pump?
> Even if they look good they could be sucking air. It happened to my 66,
and it was worse when the tank was low.
> L8re
> Bill Adams
> 1966 F-100 Custom Cab, 352 V8, PS, AC, Long bed
> 1961 F-100 Unibody, 223 and a three on the tree!

No, the hoses are..........watch this carefully............original.
I will change them this weekend.
If this works,,I'm not going to be able to stand it ! ! !!
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
1970 F100 (ret)

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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:26:12 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK LOCATION

> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 05:29:22 +0000
> From: "Allan J. Bremer"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 65 F-100, Fuel Tank Location
>
> Hello,
>
> The 65 F-100 with a 352C and a C6 that I just bought has it's fuel tank
removed and laying in the bed of the truck. It used to be behind the seat
but it was removed and the hole was body worked over.
I've had others tell me that usually if the tank is behind the
> seat you can smell gas inside the truck. Is that usually true?
+AL+

.....Had mine for over 10 years now, tank behind seat. No fumes, no
smell. Even when the filler pipe tube became a little old & dry and
cracking, still no fuel odor was present ever. If you install it like the
factory did, you'll have a very positive sending unit seal, a steel pipe
fitting for a fuel line, and the tank inlet is clamped with hose clamps and
extends outside the cab.
Not to worry ! !!
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
1970 F100 (ret)



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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:45:43 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK LOCATION

> > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:29:28 -0500 (CDT)
> From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 65 F-100, Fuel Tank Location
I've heard lots of people say they can smell gas, and lots of people say
they can't.

> I have heard some claim that it can be a safety hazard if the tank leaks
from the cab onto hot exhaust components.


If the tank were to leak, which history has shown us is rare, the fuel
would most likely run with the slope of the floor towards the cab corners
which are outboard of where the 1-3/4 diameter exhaust pipe usually runs.
Then again, if you have as many rust holes in the floor boards as some of
the list members do, I suppose fuel dripping down through the floor would
be somewhat of a concern. Personally, I'd worry more about the exhaust
fumes and road kill particulate coming through the floor.
Keep your Ford All Ford Original. Mount the thing in the cab and dont
worry about it. When Sam Donaldson does an expose about in-cab fuel tanks
for 65-79 FT on Dateline on Thursday nites, then start to worry.
Jerry
1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
1970 F100 (ret)


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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:49:25 -0400
From: "Jerry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FUEL TANK PICKUP TUBE

From: Jerry
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: 61-79-list-digest V2 #399
> Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 10:50 PM
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:43:51 -0500
> > From: John LaGrone
> > Subject: FTE 61-79 - gasoline pickup tube
> >
> > Jerry,>
> > I can't remember anyone mentioning this. Did you remove and empty your
> tank? It might have water in it. Gasoline floats. * * * * * *
I
> checked it. Its clean
> >
> > Another idea. If you do have problems with the pickup ti=ube, it may be
> easier to add a new one and abandon the old one. From the discussion on
the
> list, it sounds next to impossible to replace the old one. Just a
thought.
> >
> > - -John
>
> Since the tube is welded in place, would you be talking about drilling a
hole in the tank, attaching some kind of fitting and welding another next
to it ? ? ?
> Jerry
> 1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW
> 1970 F100 (ret)

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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:13:07 -0500
From: "Brett McCoy"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: '73-'79 Crew Cabs

Keith said,

>I'm considering buying a crew cab. I don't have 20K - 30K for a new one
>so the search is on for a used one. My brother in law says I should
>look for a 73 to 79. Comments?

I hear you on that one. New CC's are just way to much cash. Only problem
is good old ones are getting harder to find anyplace north of TX. I have a
'79 F250 4X2 CC that is really great. Paid a premium for it because it was
out of state (not MN) but it was worth it. In '79 you could get all the
goodies you want. Cruise, tilt, air, delay wipers, dual tanks, towing pkg.,
and even more. I have most of that on my XLT. I have the 460 with a C6 and
even with 115,000 miles it has plenty of go. My advise is this. If you
don't have to worry about smog cops then don't get anything other than a '78
or '79 and do some basic tuning. If you do have to worry about the smog
then you may want to look at a '71-?? depending on rules for your area to
avoid the arguments, go ahead just ask me how I know. ;-)

In either case find a good one and enjoy!!

- -B


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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:13:19 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150

Bill Beyer wrote:
>
> Thanks John, evidently you're one of the "if it ain't got a 460 it ain't
> sh*t" brigade. Well, whatever floats your boat but I like to think I have a
> little more imagination that that.

Bill: I've done the 4 barrel swap on the 400 it didn't do didlly squat
compared to buying a built 460 for $700 so been there done that. You
can spemd all yo want building a 400 but it won't hold a candle to a
460.
However, I've said before I use my truck for towing and their ain't no
400 that can tow it's weight compared to a 460. If you ain't towing
then it's possible that you don't need a 460. I tried beefing up the
400 and it was a waste of money for my purposes.


I've done two swaps from 400 to 460 and would never consider using a 400
for anything but driving around town.

Enough said!!

Regards
John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67GT500
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:55:48 -0400
From: "Kerry Walker"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: King pins

Hey man, if you like the truck and have the cash, go for it. If the truck
market in Tennessee is anything like it is here in north Texas that's not
too bad a price. Here everybody wants a truck. If you're not driving a
truck, you're not driving. If they run good they are automatically worth a
grand. And if there is no rust, that's another grand.
I just rebuilt the front end on my '68. I beleive it was under a $100 for
all the parts, and I did the work myself. So it was pretty cheap, except for
the sweat and a little blood. But a new truck must be christened with a
little knuckle blood. The first king pin set I got had the brass bushings,
which would have required a trip to the shop to have them pressed in and the
bushings sized to the pins. At least that's what a freind of mine who used
to do frontend work told me. He ( and a few shops I called ) told me to take
that set back and get one with nylon bushings. Everything went back together
smooth as silk and feels good. The bushings on the other end of the i-beam
are a different story. Those were a m.f..Getting them out wasn't so bad, but
putting the new one's in was pretty rough. I probably should have taken them
to a shop, but I was already pissed by the time I figured that out. So I got
out the Ford tool. ( BIG hammer ; ) If you can take it apart and remember
where everything goes, you can do it yourself.
Have fun man.


Kerry Walker


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Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:14:08 -0500
From: shane
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 65F100, Fuel Tank Location

I looked for a year at all the salvage years hoping to find a gas tank
that could take the place of the seat tank on my '66. Finally, I have
found one. If you wish to install a tank between the frame rails and
you want to keep it all Ford, then look for a '85 Ranger pickup with the
rear auxiliary tank. The width is right to fit between the rails. I
installed mine 3 times before I got it where it needed to be. For
anyone wanting to switch to electronic fuel injection, this is the tank.
It has a built-in fuel pump and a return line. I didn't need the return
line, so I plugged it. If you find a tank, you'll need both of the
mounting brackets and the straps that hold the tank. A local salvage
yard charged me 25.00 bucks for the entire setup. You'll need a torch
to get the rear bracket off of the Ranger. Be sure and measure the
distance between the brackets before you remove it. You'll need it
later(believe me)! It should fit all truck between '64-'72. You'll
need to drop the brackets down 1 1/2" below your frame to clear the
bed. I know this because I installed my bed and then had to remove it
and fit the tank below the frame to clear the bed. Installing this
tank assy. is much easier with the bed off. As for the fuel door, I
plan to put a fuel door behind the wheel well inside the bed so I won't
mess up the bed side. Hope this helps with some of you guys. If you
don't like the idea, don't use it. It worked for me, might work for
someone else. If anyone has any questions, email me and I'll be glad to
help.

Shane
1966 F100 Custom Cab
460 auto p/s p/b and now 3:00 gears


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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:10:07 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150

From: John MacNamara
>Bill: I've done the 4 barrel swap on the 400 it didn't do didlly squat
>compared to buying a built 460 for $700 so been there done that. You
>can spend all you want building a 400 but it won't hold a candle to a
>460.

I have a 302 in my '73 F100. I don't want a 460 in my truck. I hate
to say it but I agree with John. I have looked into EFI and 4bbl's what
ever there was I checked it out. the reason I wanted to do something was
to improve my trucks performance. Bottom line, the cheapest way, also
delivers the most power. Drop a 460 in it. I am very familiar with my
302. There's a comfort in knowing I can fix or replace anything anytime.
I have worked on other engines without much trouble but I need to follow
the manual. I could build a 302 out of a box and only reference a
manual. So upgrades to my 302 largely depends on cost of the parts I
install.
There is no argument what the 460 can do and that it is the cheapest
way to get the most performance out of our trucks. Also there is not
that much to gain with most high performance products aimed for the
street for any engine and none of them are cheap. Do what ever gets your
cookies off. It's your truck, your money and your life. Know if you say
you want to get the most out of your truck and ask "what if" the answer
you will see in many replies will be "put a 460 in it" and know their
right! Oh, I forgot IMHO! :)

>Enough said!!

Enough said!!

Deacon
deconblu gte.net http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
==============================================
Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm
==============================================




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Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:16:33 -0700
From: "Jim Cron"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Auto versus manual

Two more cents worth. I would go the automatic route for a truck that was
used to occasionally pull a moderate load (like it was rated for) because
they are (IMHO) easier and more fun to drive. They usually do a great job
starting heavy loads and I found the quicker shifts very helpful in passing
on two lane roads with a heavy trailer. But they don't live as long if you
overload them.

I pulled a 14' stock trailer carefully packed with everything we owned
across half of Mexico, mostly two lane roads with lots of slow trucks to
pass, and really used that automatic. Used it up. Several months later
with little warning and under light load I lost third far from home on a
long fast trip. Several hundred miles in second (with 4.11 gears), rush job
at the only shop that had a tranny available, huge bite out of my wallet,
who knows?

If your service is "reasonable", an auto will work pretty good. If not,
better go the stick route. They are a lot harder to destroy.

Jim
somewhere near Seattle



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Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 03:23:28 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - carb options, 77 351M F150

You know I have to agree with you. The 460 is damn fine motor, don't get me
wrong. But the 460 in my dad's 88 van cant touch the torque that the 410 in
his truck is making. And the 390 I'm building for my truck shouldn't be to
shabby either. (By the way my Jacob's Ignition came yesterday. Anyone ever
use these?) Also I'd like to say that if I didn't need the botom end torque
for pulling dads houseboat, I'd be building a 302 for my truck. That is one
tough little motor.

JUMPINFORD AOL.com
73 F-250 RangerXLT Camper Special
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Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:48:25 -0700....


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