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61-79-list-digest Tuesday, July 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 387 ======================================================================= Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, send email to: majordomo  ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list-digest" in the body of the message. ======================================================================= In this issue: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C Re: FTE 61-79 - ELECTRIC COOLING FANS HOOKUP FTE 61-79 - 66 Steering Column Problem. Need Advice! FTE 61-79 - Wing Window Glass Re: FTE 61-79 - Dead "M" Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C FTE 61-79 - Rear main seal FTE 61-79 - 410 Rebuild price FTE 61-79 - Harbor Freight FTE 61-79 - Re:Coming Soon - 68-72 Body side moldings FTE 61-79 - Oil Pump FTE 61-79 - Rear main cap removal RE: FTE 61-79 - Wing Window Glass FTE 61-79 - Clutch linkage fit Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C FTE 61-79 - 351C FTE 61-79 - sparkplugs? Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351M died, 460 sources... Re: FTE 61-79 - More info on the garage Re: FTE 61-79 - Electric lines to garage - for working on old Ford Trucks Re: FTE 61-79 - Dead "M" RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351M died, 460 sources... Re: FTE 61-79 - Electric lines to garage - for working on old Ford Trucks FTE 61-79 - RE Color of master cylinder FTE 61-79 - oops FTE 61-79 - Cam bearings FTE 61-79 - M/C color Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear main seal FTE 61-79 - Tstat for operating elect fans Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Garage Electricity Re: FTE 61-79 - Garage Electricity, Caps, Tires Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear main cap removal Re: FTE 61-79 - He's Back FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Your email address ford-trucks.com! ======================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:28:50 +0000 From: Don Grossman Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C GMPACHECO aol.com wrote: > Well after all the talk, I bot the truck with the engine 351C 2V, I'll take > the power brakes, intermitant wipers and see what else is to be had. Tomorrow > I pick it up, hummm don't think a 76 F-100 had front disc brakes.. So what > else do I need off this truck? Guess I'll keep the C6 or sell it, ended up > paying $150 for the whole sheebang. > > Mike in Seattle > and hotter than heck 76 should have disk brakes. I don't feel so alone anymore. There is a 351C 2v and C6 combo out of a 72 Mach 1 sitting in the garage just waiting for a good project to go into. - -- Don Grossman duckdon pacific.net http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon 63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:31:34 +0000 From: Don Grossman Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ELECTRIC COOLING FANS HOOKUP sdelanty sonic.net wrote: > Question #1. > A schematic is worth a bunch of words, so go here to see how mine is wired. > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/show-n-tell/fanelect.jpg > I told ya Steve would have a better explanation > > > > Mine is wired direcly to +12v from the battery, so the fans can keep > running even with the engine off if the coolant temp is still high > enough to trip the therm switch (about 200F) Dido here - -- Don Grossman duckdon pacific.net http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon 63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:57:09 -0500 From: "Brian Forbes" Subject: FTE 61-79 - 66 Steering Column Problem. Need Advice! I've got a bad problem with the column in my 66. I recently bought a 18 ft camper to go on weekend trips with. I was trying to learn the art of backing up Sunday when my steering shaft tried to remove itself from the column. I stopped, looked under the hood, and noticed the lower seals, and I guess bearings, hanging down around the rag joint. Now, I dont plan on trying to fix this problem, or even try to replace it with another column out of my 65. I want to replace the column with an Ididit tilt steel steering column. My problem gets a little deeper now. I've also got a power steering gear box I plan on installing. The question I've got is what length column would I need. And also, what other parts including Borgeson joints and shats do I need to obtain. Thanks Brian Huntsville, Al == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 04:15:23 -0400 From: Jeff Subject: FTE 61-79 - Wing Window Glass The handel on my wing window of my '65 broke off so I ordered the replacement part that rivets into the wing window frame. How do I remove the glass from the frame??? Is there a ruber gasket between the glass and the frame or is it all sealer??? Is this a task I can do myself or should I take the whole thing to a glass shop??? Thanks in advance for any advice ya'll can give me. Jeff in Md. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:30:24 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dead "M" Date sent: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:16:28 -0700 From: Pat Brown Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dead "M" > can come off, lodging in the pump. (Geeze, you'd think this was a heart > attack support list! ). When it comes to M blocks it sort of is a support group for distraught owners :-) I don't have tons of experience with tons of engines but this is the only one I've seen do this repeatedly and in exactly the same way, over and over and over and over.......:-) I guess they all have their weaknesses. 302's break cranks, 351m's blow oil pumps and crack heads, 460's eat exhuast manifolds etc.. On M blocks, never change the pump without also changing the pickup tube and in fact never open up the bottom end without changing it. This will go down in motor history as the "M block curse" :-) 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's 78 LIncoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo! - -- Gary -- == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:07:44 EDT From: GMPACHECO aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C Cool, guess I'll be using the info from the list to do the convert......heck I'll probably have lots of parts, they also converted the steering column over to automatic with the wheel, guess I'll find out what shape that is in.. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:09:46 EDT From: GMPACHECO aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C Whats the diff beside the manifold and carb between a 351 2V and 351 4V ? Mike in Seattle == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:16:45 EDT From: GMPACHECO aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C Let see that last one really sounded like I don't know a thing ( pretty close ) it was suppose to say ok beside the manifold and carb, what other differences are the engines 351C 4V and 351C 2V ? Mike again in Seattle == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:30:41 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear main seal Marko writes: >>Go to your local machine shop and get some soft aluminum dowel of about, uh what would it be? A quarter, three-eighths of an inch or so? Then use that to push out the seal. If you could get aluminum square stock it'd work even better. The aluminum will bend, and it won't hurt the cast of the block nor the steel on the crank, I wouldn't think. Azie? What does the voice of experience say? 3/8ths would probably be too large, but I'm guessing here. The Aluminum sounds OK to me to use. It will give before the crank will. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:00:24 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - 410 Rebuild price William Ballinger writes: >> I can get a kit with Silv-O-Lite cast pistons and everything else to rebuild it. A Crane towing cam, new valve springs,lifters and push-rods. Fel-Pro blue gasket set. Complete rebuild on the heads with new guides and valves, with hardened valve seats. All of the machine work including cutting the crank. All for $1150. All I have to do is dissassemble-reassemble it. Doesn't sound too bad, does it? Lets see ! ! ! Divide $1150 by 250,000 miles and you come up with $.0046. Sounds like a deal to me. You'll have basically a new engine that in my opinion will last for the 250,000 miles so you come up with less than half a cent per mile cost for engine. You didn't mention boring the block. If you are going to dish out for new pistons, why not go at least .030" over. Difference of cost of pistons will be nominal and roughly $5 for each hole to bore. Just something to think about. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:15:47 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Harbor Freight Paul Padecki writes: >>Speaking of toys (er... I mean, TOOLS) I'm considering a new cherry picker and engine stand from Harbor Freight. They want $200 for a 2-ton crane and $40 for a 1000lb stand (4 castors) (ad in August issue of Camaro Craft). Are they good people to do business with? I've never had a problem with the people, but I would like to say something about the quality of their products. I have a 12 ton press - a Cherry picker and the engine hoist. All from Harbor Freight. The press plunger is not exactly square with the frame. The cherry picker has one leg slightly lower (or higher) than the other ( I'm talking fractions of an inch here, but under a load it makes a difference.) Basically what I'm saying is that the quality is a bit lacking. I've managed to get by, but I'm not sure I would buy from them again for the Press and the Crane. The engine stand works great, and I have found no problems with it. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 98 09:19:15 -0400 From: "Ronald D. Miller" Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:Coming Soon - 68-72 Body side moldings > >Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:32:19 -0500 >From: "J Elliott" >Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - COMING SOON- 68-72 Body side moldings > >you wrote: >>Here's a quick note about new reproduction body side moldings for 68-72 >>F-series trucks coming soon. > >That's nice, but what about the mounting blocks and clips for the molding? >Do they come with? And will you have those separately? Molding I got.....I >just want to be sure to have extra mounts in case any get roached taking >them off and back on for a repaint. > >J. Elliott > The new moldings come with the attaching hardware. The hardware may be available separately in the future. Ron http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.auto krafters.  com == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:22:43 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Oil Pump Ox writes: >>Seems Gary was right. I tried rotating oil pump shaft with ratchet. It's frozen big time. This oil pump only has 70 miles on it. Oil pressure seemed fine (although high) when I left the house. I don't think it ran wihout oil pressure for more than a split second, as distr gears stripped immediately. It really annoys me that I put in a new part and it ruins my engine. When you replaced the oil pump, did you make sure the pickup tube and screen was cleaned out??? Sounds like the pump got some trash in it and locked down. When you pull it, take it apart and examine it closely. Those things have very tight clearances - no room for any foreign matter. You'll need a new oil pump shaft as well probably. Maybe the crank was saved by the fact that the dist quit at the same time and killed the engine. Hope you find minimal damage there. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:35:51 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear main cap removal Joe DeL. writes: >>While attempting to remove the rear cap to get to the rear main seal i want to change I cannot get the cap to budge....It seems to have a cork gasket or something running on the sides of it??Is there a trick to remove I DO Not want to scratch the crank.....What am I doing wrong??? You aren't doing anything wrong!!! It is an FE, right!!! Tap it lightly with a hammer (using a small block of wood against it) front to rear and rear to front. After it breaks loose, tap it lightly (again using the block of wood) side to side, or stick the bolts down it it half way and squeeze the heads of the bolts toward each other in your hand and rock the cap with your hands while pulling outward. It will come out, if you have both bolts out of the cap. They just tend to stick after several thousands of miles. Good luck. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:38:33 -0700 From: "Gillespie, John D." Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Wing Window Glass Jeff wrote; The handel on my wing window of my '65 broke off so I ordered the replacement part that rivets into the wing window frame. How do I remove the glass from the frame??? My gasket was deterating already so I was able to pull the glass away from the gasket otherwise I would have cut the gasket away from the glass and frame (this was going to be my method. Others here may differ Is there a ruber gasket between the glass and the frame or is it all sealer??? It is a rubber gasket between the glass and the frame. I bought the replacement gasket for mine from Dennis Carpenter Reproductions in Charlotte SC. Is this a task I can do myself or should I take the whole thing to a glass shop??? Do it your self. Also check through the archives there was a discussion concerning the rivets for mounting the handle bracket and what some of the other FTE members used to install those two small rivets. Thanks in advance for any advice ya'll can give me. John == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:39:23 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Clutch linkage fit John writes: >>Now, the real question, how much play in any direction unrelated to enguaging and disenguaging the throwout bearing should there be? Should I make this fork real tight so it can only go in/out as one would theoretically surmise or would a little play/slop up/down and left/right be a good thing? Engine and transmission are both mounted on rubber, so a little "slop" is desireable here I would think. JMHO Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:47:58 -0400 From: Ken Payne Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351C At 12:29 AM 7/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >Well after all the talk, I bot the truck with the engine 351C 2V, I'll take >the power brakes, intermitant wipers and see what else is to be had. Tomorrow >I pick it up, hummm don't think a 76 F-100 had front disc brakes.. So what >else do I need off this truck? Guess I'll keep the C6 or sell it, ended up >paying $150 for the whole sheebang. > All 73s-79s had front discs, nice thing to get for a 65-72 conversion. Ken Payne == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:46:45 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351C Mike in Seattle writes: >>don't think a 76 F-100 had front disc brakes.. My '76 F-150 4X4 did!!! I'd check it out before I just let it go. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:51:21 -0500 From: John Strauss Subject: FTE 61-79 - sparkplugs? >What kind of plugs do Bronco owners like for the 351 4V HO in an 86'. > It's a Ford so you use Autolite or Motorcraft. I personally recommend Autolite Platinum - they last (almost) forever. _ _| ~~. John Strauss \, *_} jstrauss inetport.com \( Texas Fight! == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:15:25 -0500 From: Jim Henjum Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351M died, 460 sources... When I built my truck I coupled my '73 460 to a '77 Np435 four-speed. Since the 460's didn't have 4-speeds with them 'till '83 or so, i used many 351M & 400 clutch parts. These engines use a bracket that bolts to the bellhousing-to-block bolts and comes out to the side for the clutch bracket. Note that you would have to order the part for a 351/400. Also, the 460 has a crank that sticks out further in relation to the back of the engine ( about 3/8" or so). I had to use a diaphram clutch in order to fit inside the bellhousing. Hope this helps. Ross Henjum 75 F250 4x4 460 Np435 Np205 William King wrote: > Second, the side > of the block is NOT machined for the clutch equalizer bracket. > I've heard that there is a Ford bracket adapter that will let > you use a clutch equalizer bracket w/ the 68/69 429. I'll > dig the PN out if you like. But the pilot bushing snafu is a > pain. > Good luck. > Ohio Bill > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:36:09 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - More info on the garage From: "Michael White" Subject: FTE 61-79 - More info on the garage Date sent: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:53:03 -0600 > measure and went outside to take a look. The approx inside dimmensions of > my new garage are going to 24' x 11' , which means I can't pull both rear > axles at once I allowed 15' for my bay minus wall thicknesses so I have about 14 solid feet to play with and the lift is exactly centered. When I pulled the right side axle on the pickup it came pretty close to the wall before it cleared the axle housing so you are correct but I've pulled many engines in my 24' long garage with room to spare but with an over head chain hoist. With an engine hoist you will have to run the boom as short as possible but I think you can do it easily enough unless you're dealing with a crew cab.......:-) I'm happy for you with your new garage as I'm sure it will be a vast improvement over the driveway. I've worked out of my 20 x 24 garage for 23 years and managed to do everything I tried to do with some ingenuity and often had to open the door to gain the room I needed but I got it done. I compare that to my new shop like working in a non environmentally controlled factory all my life and finally getting to retire to a posh resort :-) The differance is that great to me. All I can say is I wish we all could be able to have a nice shop. I was really getting tired of working on my trucks and actually thinking about giving it all up and buying a new one when the barn project came along. Now I am renewed and refreshed and ready for another 23 years of playing because now it's really, really fun again :-) 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's 78 LIncoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo! - -- Gary -- == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:01:38 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Electric lines to garage - for working on old Ford Trucks From: sdelanty sonic.net Date sent: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:43:23 -0700 Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Electric lines to garage - for working on old > NEC allows #4 thhn wire to be run at not more than *95 amps* in conduit > (not more than 3 wires in a conduit, or direct earth burial) or up to > *140 amps* in free air... Note that this does not significantly affect > the voltage drop that occurs across the wire, only the max allowable > current that can be run before the wire is considered to be too hot. And that was the point of my discussion with the electrician, it doesn't matter how hot the wire gets if the voltage drops too much and I contend that at 140 amps in free air there will be some additional voltage drop over the 95v in conduit? If we stretch it a bit and put cold air around it we can get more amperage but will the voltage still remain stable? I don't think so. Are you saying I'm wrong? If so I may have to rethink some of my projects :-( The whole point is that if you want good voltage you should assume the worst and use the wire that's defined for that worst case scenerio. Over kill? Maybe, but I don't like my lights flickering every time a small motor kicks on :>( 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's 78 LIncoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo! - -- Gary -- == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:22:48 -0600 From: "Dave Resch" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dead "M" >From: luxjo thecore.com >Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dead "M" > > Seems Gary was right. I tried rotating oil pump shaft with ratchet. >It's frozen big time. This oil pump only has 70 miles on it. Oil >pressure seemed fine (although high) when I left the house. I don't >think it ran wihout oil pressure for more than a split second, as distr >gears stripped immediately. Yo Ox: Very sorry to hear about your M-block troubles. Unfortunately, this seems to be a common problem when modifying high mileage engines (not just M-blocks either). I believe that after about 100K miles, w/out some basic refurbishing, your opportunity to make significant performance improvements w/out risking catastrophic failure is severely diminished. Fortunately, if you have a decent hardened oil pump drive shaft, the weak link is the cam/dist gear interface. You do get chunks in the oil pan, but once the cam and dist stop, the engine stops running and you don't get starved and scored bearings and journals. I'll second Gary's advice to drop the pan and see what's in there. I'd bet most of the chunks are in the pan or sitting on top of the dead pump. After you drop the pan, take out the pump and its drive shaft (or what's left of it) and pull out the dist. From there, you should be able to clean out even the small chunks and examine the cam's dist drive gear. The cam gear is stronger than the dist gear, and if the cam gear survived w/out too much damage, you could go w/out replacing the cam. I really can't recommend just putting a new cam into a 150K mile M-block. If the cam dist gear is toast, I'd lean toward a overhaul/rebuild/replace scenario. BTW: I'm not sure what caused your pump to fail, but I have seen the same thing (rapid failure) happen *twice* w/ Melling high volume oil pumps (once in Cleveland w/ about 30K miles and once in a 460 w/ less than 250 total miles on a complete rebuild). I have been told that high vol/high pressure oil pumps are best reserved for race-only or extreme performance street engines. They can help if you have "really loose" bearing clearances, as one might in an engine designed for very high revs, but in a normal engine w/ "normal" bearing clearances, the excess pressure blows past the pressure relief valve (if it's working properly) and increases the oil pump's load on the engine, all of which is transmitted through the oil pump drive shaft from the distributor shaft. I understand you can tweak the pressure relief valve to maintain reasonable oil pressure and lighten the load on the cam/dist gears somewhat, but that's only appropriate as a stop-gap for an engine w/ way worn out bearings and serious oil pressure problems. OTOH, If I was in that boat, I'd limp along on low oil pressure until I could afford to do a proper rebuild or drop in a suitable replacement engine. Dave R. (M-block devotee) == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:23:23 -0400 From: Sleddog Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351M died, 460 sources... those are consistant with 1968. sleddog - ---------- From: Michael White[SMTP:mwhite3 gte.net] Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 10:18 PM To: 61-79-list Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351M died, 460 sources... - -----Original Message----- Here are the numbers from the intake C8SE-9425-B The autolite carb reads as follows C9LF A A 9C 4 The heads read as follows C8VE E Are these numbers consistant with a 1968 T-bird 429? I was thinking of selling this "working engine". What would be a fair price? Michael Salt Lake City, Utah 69 F250 360 auto 69 F250 CS 390 T18 Posi 3.54 == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:55:46 -0700 From: sdelanty sonic.net Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Electric lines to garage - for working on old Ford Trucks >> NEC allows #4 thhn wire to be run at not more than *95 amps* in conduit >> (not more than 3 wires in a conduit, or direct earth burial) or up to >> *140 amps* in free air... Note that this does not significantly affect >> the voltage drop that occurs across the wire, only the max allowable >> current that can be run before the wire is considered to be too hot. >And that was the point of my discussion with the electrician, it doesn't matter >how hot the wire gets if the voltage drops too much and I contend that at 140 >amps in free air there will be some additional voltage drop over the 95v in >conduit? If we stretch it a bit and put cold air around it we can get more >amperage but will the voltage still remain stable? I don't think so. Are you >saying I'm wrong? If so I may have to rethink some of my projects :-( No,no, not saying You're wrong... only that the code allows more current for wiring in free air, so Your electrician wasn't entirely full of it... Resistance of copper wire *does* go down as temp drops, by about 0.223% per degree F, so a wire has about 16.7% less resistance at 75F than it does at 150F. Not a whole lot, but not insignificant either. PVC conduit is a crappy conductor of heat, so a wire in free air will run *much* cooler than one in plastic conduit... (temperature coefficients taken from table 84 of "American Electricians Handbook" copyrights 1913-1942) If You can get the temps down approching 0 degrees K, the resistance of the copper will go down to damn near nothing and You can get mega amps thru a fairly small wire... (-: I'm a believer in overkill when it comes to wiring. Use the biggest stuff You can afford when You wire up a garage to do Yer truck fixin in! As You aquire more and more big electrical tools to stock Your garage with You'll be glad in the long run! Steve Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:52:05 -0700 From: "Hogan, Tom" Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE Color of master cylinder - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:01:38 -0400 From: "Jerry" Subject: FTE 61-79 - COLOR OF MASTER CYLINDER Would anyone know what color and what finish the master cylinder should be on a 1973-76 F250 or 350 if you were trying to duplicate as closely as possible the original factory finish ? ? ? If you know that one, what color and finish for the power booster.......disc brakes if it matters ? ? ? Jerry 1969 F350 Dually reefer 351W AOD PS PB PW 1970 F100 (ret) == ================================= I don't think there was a factory color for the master cylinder. So the answer is probably "cast iron" or in the case of older trucks "rust". I don't think the factory bothered to cover/paint the MC because of how hard the brake fluid is on paint. Probably also didn't want paint flecks getting into the brake system. I recently replaced the MC on my truck and have been thinking about painting it either Ford Blue or clear coat it. If your looking for a durable finish and are detailing the under hood for a show or something you might consider having it powder coated. Some one else might comment on how powder coating stands up to brake fluid. As far as the brake booster goes it is black. Seems to be a glossy finish but mine is pretty old. I think Eastwood has an under hood black for accessories that is supposed to be a close match. Tom H. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:22:09 EDT From: Brazzadog aol.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - oops I'm back from 10 days of vacation to discover that my e-mail was busily creating problems. My apologies to the list for any complications it may have caused. Ben Williams == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:23:58 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cam bearings Ox writes: >>I guess my question is do you think cam bearings with 150K are good enough to pop in a new cam. If you can get the cam out without pulling the engine, you can probably see well enough to get an idea of whether they need replacing or not by the amount of copper you can see on them. If they need replacing, I would think you could get a tool from some parts house that rents tools and jerk the old ones out and install new ones. The rear one might be tough, but I would think it could be done, but I am not sure of this. Just a thought that might help. Good luck. Azie Ardmore, Al == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:29:46 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - M/C color Jerry writes: >>Would anyone know what color and what finish the master cylinder should be on a 1973-76 F250 or 350 if you were trying to duplicate as closely as possible the original factory finish ? ? ? If you know that one, what color and finish for the power booster. All master cylinders I've ever seen on these model FOMOCO trucks are natural cast iron - no paint. The boosters are black - sort of semi gloss. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:32:43 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear main seal From: am14 chrysler.com Date sent: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:30:41 -0400 Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear main seal > 3/8ths would probably be too large, but I'm guessing here. The Aluminum > sounds OK to me to use. It will give before the crank will. 3/16" is closer to the rope size as I recall. 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's 78 LIncoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo! - -- Gary -- == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:43:10 -0400 From: am14 chrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tstat for operating elect fans Don/Steve: Where did you get the "kit" for the Elect fans??? Are they common aftermarket offerings. I don't recall ever seeing them around here in any of the parts places I frequent!!! Is there an adjustable Tstat offered that you could solder or pressure clip to the radiator end near the neck opening for the returning flow to the engine???? Is there a stock offering on some vehicle that could be adapted to our beloved old FOMOCO trucks??? Thanks for your inputs. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:37:53 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Garage Electricity Date sent: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:07:10 -0500 Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Garage Electricity From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki) > Speaking of toys (er... I mean, TOOLS) I'm considering a new cherry > picker and engine stand from Harbor Freight. They want $200 for a 2-ton > crane and $40 for a 1000lb stand (4 castors) (ad in August issue of Camaro > Craft). Are they good people to do business with? I can't complain but Azie said he wasn't happey with the engine hoist (cherry picker) but I'm not sure what he meant exactly. I bought one from TSC for $249 with 8 ton jack and 2k capacity and the first thing that broke off was one of the casters when I tried to drag it across my stone drive way to the barn. It has trailer tires on it where the dolly casters were but I still need some dollys in the front to steer the dang thing. The legs on mine are just pinned in place but seem to balance the unit well enough. Mine has a rectangular base shape and I saw one like it in the catalog but not in my current one. I don't like the angled leg arrangeement on most of them I see, I prefer the rectangualar base. I think it offers more stability. Since I put the rubber trailer tires on it is much more manouverable and versitile. All it lacks to haul it down the road is a hitch. If you have a welder take advantage of their good prices and shore it up any way you want as needed. I added a tranny jack to mine and it works very well (just can't steer it). If you don't have a welder you might do better to go to some tractor supply stores and auto parts shops and look around for them. Fact is you can hardly buy the jack and the steel parts for $249 so it's a good investment in any case for me. 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's 78 LIncoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo! - -- Gary -- == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:55:24 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Garage Electricity, Caps, Tires Date sent: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: John Pajak Subject: FTE 61-79 - Garage Electricity, Caps, Tires > The tossup is: do I pay $860 for underground service to the garage > from the pole at the street-200 AMP with separate meter, installed, or do > I pay $150 for cable and trench it in myself and run 100 AMPs from the > house? Check with the power company for rates and what they will allow before deciding on this. I have to pay industrial rates for my second meter and it's roughly 1.5 times the residential rate. If they let you have two meters at the same rate then you have to decide how much work you want to do to save a few bucks. I was required to go 24" deep and I used conduit the whole distance but I don't consider $6 for 10' much cost considering the ease of maintenance if I need to change wires. For 150' I might reconsider :-) 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's 78 LIncoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo! - -- Gary -- == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:23:06 -0700 From: Marko Maryniak Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear main cap removal At 09:35 AM 28/07/98 -0400, you wrote: >Joe DeL. writes: >>While attempting to remove the rear cap to get to the >rear main seal i want to change I cannot get the cap to budge....It seems >to have a cork gasket or something running on the sides of it??Is there a >trick to remove I DO Not want to scratch the crank.....What am I doing >wrong??? > Yup. There's rubber gaskets running on each side of the main cap. You can remove these rather crudely without hurting anything. WHat you do is take a wood screw of #8 or #6 (or is it 10? whicever is smaller) and then screw it into the cork/rubber and pull. Then yer cap will come out no problem. The new rear main seal kit will come with new ones of these, which you shud coat lightly with silicone, along with the nails. marko in vancouver marko dsm.ca == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:25:09 -0700 From: Marko Maryniak Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - He's Back At 08:48 PM 27/07/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 04:03:37 -0700 >> From: "Deacon" >> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Underhood heat > >HHHHEEEEE'SSSSS BAAAAAAACK....... > >Just when I'd gotten over my nervous tic.... Man I'll be glad when >Varner gets back. >-- >Come on over to my Back Porch >http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr >Ballinger >ballingr ldd.net >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html > Whew! Thank God I'm going on vacation tomorrow!!! marko in vancouver marko dsm.ca == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:48:53 -0400 From: Ken Payne Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Your email address ford-trucks.com! >From the Ford Truck Enthusiasts admin, please read it, its important! In the last 4 weeks, we've received a grand total of less than $30 in FTE window sticker and Restoration Resource book sales. After product costs, we made less than $7 on the sales. Our monthly expenses are significantly higher than this. In order to keep Peggy and I from spending even more of our cash (a few thousand in the last year and a half) on FTE, we're going to start offering POP3/SMTP email addresses. The FTE lists will continue to remain free, which is a commitment I've made to the members from day one - this is one way for us to keep this commitment. Now is your chance to get an email address in the form of yourname ford-trucks.com! This address is good with any POP3 compatible email software (Outlook, Exchange, Eudora, Inbox, Netscape, Internet Explorer and just about any package you can think of). Its usuable from any ISP so you can keep the same address even if you change internet providers! Cool address for your business cards if you have a Ford truck related business. We have a very high availability track record with no known lost mail from our lists (on our end, this is with over 50,000 emails per day) since we completed the transition to our current host. The cost? Personal Use ============ - $2.50 per month with a $5 setup fee. Address is available in 6 month increments so the initial cost is $20 for six months. - renewal every six months is $15 ($2.50/month) - If you purchase 1 year in advance, the setup fee is waived and your cost is $30. - Additional addresses are available at the cost of $1.75 per month with a $2.50 setup fee for each address..... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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