61-79-list-digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 284



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems
FTE 61-79 - C6 "hill holder"?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Pigeon Forge Report
FTE 61-79 - RE: engine rebuild/replacement
FTE 61-79 - also
Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Milestone
FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
FTE 61-79 - Re:'78 Ranchero parts source
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
Re: FTE 61-79 - military pride
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/
Re: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odds and ends
Re: FTE 61-79 - '78 ford Ranchero
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Pigeon Forge Report

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:51:03 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:59:34 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

> Gary,
> Next time my drums need to come off I wish You'd come show me Your
> technique... I'd bet You could beat mine with a dead blow hammer
> from any direction You want and not have them off in a 1/2 hour.
> Been there, done that.

I had some I thought required that too but found out that same set of
drums came off easily with the process I described. That doesn't
mean yours will but it's worked on all of mine so far. I still
forget to loosen the adjuster sometimes untill I whack on it a bit
and realize my mistake but so far they always come off for me. The
45 degree angle is the key to setting up a vibration in the thin
portion of the center of the drum which more or less walks the drum
off the hub. At least this is what I've observed.

BTW, I do put anti-seize on all of them I take off just for that
reason as well. I also put it on the lug threads which used to be a
big "No, No" but now they teach it in auto classes :-) I've argued
with old timers for years about that one and I've finally been
vindicated :-)

Now I've had some WHEELS that...............I keep a tanker bar
long enough to pass under the vehicle and whack them from the
inside for that job :-) I once drove home on a flat because I didn't
have anything in the car long enough to reach across and whack it
like a battering ram. The tire iron just bounced off like a tooth
pick. Not sure even a good dead blow would have got that one off.
Modern, new fangled, import (whoops) junk (Festiva).

BTW, wheel "rims" are steel so can be hit with steel hammers etc. but
drums are a very cheap cast iron and crack easily (I know you know
this Steve) So for those who weren't aware, you should not use steel
hammers to pound them off since your family's safety depends on them
working well. A cracked drum can leave you with virtually no brakes
in a panic situation since the front wheels will just slide without
the rear to help out.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:17:32 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - C6 "hill holder"?

> I have a C6 that I only driven a very very short distance. Does the
> C6 have a "hill holder"? The "backing up" comment reminded me of
> advice I got years ago from my Lifelong Ford Mechanic uncle, who
>
No, there is no such a thing that I am aware of. However, the C6 can do
this trick to hold a hill - put it in 2nd. On Ford Cruise-O-Matic
transmissions, when you put it in 2nd, it starts in 2nd (as opposed to GM
which starts in 1st and then shifts to 2nd). This was done for
low-traction situations like snow/ice. 2nd gear is acheived by use of a
one-way clutch, which won't let the trans go backwards. So, if you are on
a hill, put the truck in 2nd, and you can take your foot off the brake and
it won't roll backwards. Try it!
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:31:45 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

At 08:47 AM 5/18/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Oh My!!!!! Pigeon Forge was SSSOOOOOOO awesome!!!! I had only 5 hours to
>shop for parts, (sounds like a woman! SHOP!) and look at trucks before
>heading back.

That explains it! Everyone kept looking for you but you kept disappearing.
I know how it is! You just gotta get "that" part! I finally found a
perfect right fender.

>The video I was going to shoot and copy for distribution wound up one major
>glitch
>and only about 4 minutes of tape was taken before technical difficulties
>struck. I am sorry, especially to William Ballinger, whom I promised to
>send a copy.
>;(
>
>After seeing a sea full of trucks, I am even more inspired, NOT that I have
>become uninspired, to get my truck finished before May 1999. A lofty goal
>but we are working hard to attain it. Save me space next year Gary B.
>beside your 67.....

Hopefully my 67 will be there next year.

>
>For you 427 Cammer people, The Cobalt Blue 427 SOHC 1956 Effie was one of
>the most awesome and fear inspiring rigs I have seen in quite awhile!

I never saw one until then. Only one word:

ccccccccccoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllll!!!!!


>The
>67-72 crwod enjoyed many , many fine looking rigs! But, Probably the nicest
>truck IMHO, and it is a very humble opinion, was the 2 tone baby blue/white
>66 model F-100 4x2 someone had perfectly restored to stock! Gorgeous and
>slick!!
>
>The greatest part of the brief journey was getting to meet all the guys and
>gals that showed up from the list. Just absolutely awesome. Finally a name
>and face can go together. Too Awesome!
>
>Last but not least, Ken, Peggy and kids, thanks for all the hard work and
>dedication.
>I think I just realized the magnitude of work involved with the
>website/mailing list this weekend as I saw everyone scurrying around! I
>am even more priveledged than I thought to be a part of it all!! Thank you!
>I can't say it often enough or sincerely enough!!

It was worth it! I really got a sense of unity from it all!

>If you have never been to Pigeon Forge, THIS IS A MUST!!
>Plan for next year!!
>

Tie Deacon to the hood, he's coming next time!

Ken


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:30:40 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Pigeon Forge Report

Here's the Pigeon Forge F100 Supernationals report:

- - 31 list members showed up. One member came from New Zealand! That's
dedication!
- - Many photos taken! These will show up on the web site to arouse
a sense of jealousy (heh heh) in those who didn't attend. This
should increase the attendence next year! I took pictures that
represent every list catagory.
- - In the "I've died and gone to heaven" catagory: 427 SOHC, very rare,
beautiful sound (and very loud, you could hear it for a mile).
brrammmmm, brammmmmmm, brapppppp, brammm...... waaaaaa hoooooo!
- - Group photo was taken Saturday around 11. Most members where in it.
This will appear on the web site.
- - A new sense of direction, many of us sat down and talked about the
future of FTE. Expect us to be an "official club" soon (lists will
always be free). The future looks good.
- - I think those who attended will agree that it brought a real sense
of unity to our group.
- - Pat Ford, the show organizer, treated us extremely well. We had a
booth, inside (A/C!), right inside the front door. We had the best
location in the entire show. To those who have Pat's number, please
call him and thank him!
- - 350+ brochures given out!
- - Universal agreement from 61-79 list members who attended that Deacon
will be at next year's show, even if we have to tie him to the wing
of a plane! Deacon's presence was sorely missed!
- - Interest from vendors in sponsoring us.
- - We received an award for club participation! Hopefully this is
the first of many! I'm going to scan it in and put it on the
web site. Although it will hang on my wall.... we all deserve it!
- - We really are a first class group, it was really nice that many of
you were able to contribute to the "thank Pat Ford" fund. We had
a really nice engraved glass plaque made for Pat, using the 20th
F100 Supernationals t-shirt design for it with "From Ford Truck
Enthusiasts" on the bottom.
- - Many friendships solidified. The best part, to me, was being
able to finally meet so many of my friends for the first time.
A special thanks to those list members who've been lurkers
who read and are learning but hasn't been active posters. It's
its nice to know that you like us enough to travel to meet
everyone.
- - Parts, parts, parts.... and, you guess it, more parts.
- - Again, Deacon, you had to be there! I made sure I took many
photos of 73-79 trucks to give you a good reason to be there
next year!
- - I think we made a great impression with Pat Ford and let the
world know how nice our members are!

In attendance (let me know if I miss anyone, sorry for any
incorrect spelling):

Stu Varner Kristen Marcellus
Peggy Payne Ken Payne
Keith Srb Stephen Silverthorn
Barry Price Dan Herrmann
John Miller Ken Laffon
John Nioloni Paul Gayda
Jay Arnold Gary Bowling
Jeff Hoffman Jack M Hollback
Alan Akerstrom Hugh LaPenotiere
Michael Lowery Randall Dotson
Ted Freeman Don & Terri Neighbors (Grover!)
oftc choice.net (sorry, but I can't read your writing!)
Clive Pedersen (from New Zealand!) Clare Waterman
Jeff Bogart William G. Wood (Woody)
Brian Forbes Charlie Powell
Derek Hall

To those who've sent me email or have a problem needing to
be resolved, please be patient, I had 1428 emails waiting
for me Sunday night and another 180+ this morning. I will
get around to everything, but its going to take some time.
Please don't send multiple requests, it only makes it harder
on me and the wife.

I wish to take this opportunity to sincerely thank everyone
who attended. I really appreciate it!

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:09:24 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: engine rebuild/replacement

Jack,
No problem with your question. If you had it then there had to be
others with the same question.
I must offer this disclaimer, I have never rebuilt an engine... YET!!
However I can offer what I have picked up from the list and other
reading I have done.
Some of it depends on how well you know the engine you are rebuilding
and how in depth you want to go. If it is an engine that you have been
running a while and is running good but needs refreshing you may be
able to get away with throwing in rings and bearings and get another 50
to 100K out of the motor. (100K may be optimistic). This may be the
way you go if you want to buy a little time befor the major overhaul.
If you're buying a used motor of unknown quality and are planning on
rebuilding it then I wouldn't do it without major checks by the machine
shop. Before sinking major bucks into any rebuild you would want to
have the heads and block checked for cracks. This process is referred
to as "Magnafluxing". Basically the item is magnetized and fine metal
particles are placed on the part. If there is a crack the particles
will stick to it and make it very visible. Another inspection process
is "Sonic Checking" I'm not as familiar with it but have heard it
referred to when inspecting the cylinder walls for thickness. Basically
to check if the cylinder walls can be bored.
Other things to be done at a machine shop:
1. Hot tank the block: A cleaning process to remove the sludge buildup
inside the oil and water passages of the block
2. Remove and replace cam bearings: I have read that this is a job best
left to an experienced machinest.
3. Hone or bore the cylinder walls: Honeing is a process to dress up
the cylinder walls without removing much material. Boring Removes more
material. Good for repaining bore taper and increasing displacement.
But if taken too far can ruin the block if you hit a water passage or
make the cylinder wall too thin.
4. Hone or Align Bore the main bearing journals. Similar to above.
This is to ensure the main bearing journals are in a straight line. If
the align boring is not done properly it can move the crankshaft closer
to the camshaft causing a loose timing chain and other problems (I
forget what).
5. Decking the block: This is planeing the surface that the cylinder
head bolts to to ensure good sealing to the head. It can increase
static compression ratio. If too much material is removed then the
intake manifold mounting surface must be machined to allow the manifold
to bold on properly. This is because of the "V" design of the block.
Removing material from the top moves the heads closer to the crank or
the apex of the "V". This moves the two intake mounting surfaces closer
together. Can also change the geometry of the valve train and require
special length pushrods.
6. Milling the head: Same as decking the block but done on the head to
ensure its mounting surface is flat and will mate to the block.
7. Installing/Grinding valve seats: Ensures valves seal the combustion
chambers well.
8. Installing new valve guides: This is the wear surface between the
valve stem and the head. If this is worn the engine can consume oil.
Some shops will fix this by knurling the stem instead of replacing the
guide (or do they knurl the guide?) This is a cheap corner cutting
measure that does not last long term and should never be opted for.

The machine work can make or break an engine rebuild. It is the basis
for the rest of the work done. Compare it to building a house. This is
the foundation and you want it straight, level and square before you do
anything else.

When you get the parts back from the machine shop you want to be sure to
clean them thoroughly! Most machine shops won't take the time to be
sure all the grit is out of the oil passages when they are done. You
will also want to take some measurement to ensure the work was done and
done properly.

Hope this helps. I know I can count on the rest of the list to correct
me if I have strayed too far from the truth! ;0)

Tom H.



- ------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:02:27 -0400
From: "THE PAVIES'"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: engine rebuild/replacement

Steve- I was reading your post (from last Wednesday) where you said
"You send the block, heads, and crank off to the machine shop for
whatever work You need on them." Well, duh! I hate to show my ignorance
but what "work" are you talking about? I've rebuilt VW engines before
(about a million years ago) but I don't recall that anything ever had to
be taken over to a machine shop for them. I remember using a new crank,
new heads, new rods, etc. The VW engine case was either good (undamaged)
or not good(beat up from a broken rod or whatever). So, what has to be
done on the block, heads, and crankshaft at a machine
shop? I appologize to all the experienced people on this
list that are sitting there saying "This guy MUST be kidding!". I think
somebody said here before about taking a rebuild course at your local
CC. What's a "CC"? I'd love to take a course like
that. Thanks and, ummm, sorry again for
having been living under a rock. Jack P.
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- ------------------------------


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:31:46 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - also

Hey Stu,

Forget to add shipping to that $85....I'll let you know what it is when we
send it...

Jeff
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:34:12 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

From: Gary
>I had some I thought required that too but found out that same set of
>drums came off easily with the process I described. That doesn't
>mean yours will but it's worked on all of mine so far. I still
>forget to loosen the adjuster sometimes untill I whack on it a bit
>and realize my mistake

Does whackin' help you to think? :] Sorry, it's a sickness. I can't
help it. I see an opening and I just can't help myself. Bad Deacon! :]
I've never had to heat my drums to get them off but I have given
them a couple smacks with a dead blow (that sounds,,, never mind) but I
just figured it was to loosen some of the crap that had built up around
the lugs and stuff. If hitting them with a hammer cracks them, it was
time for new drums anyway.

I don't want to work.
Just want to bang on my drums all day!

Later!

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:28:16 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Milestone

Another FTE milestone!

Last week we had our 200,000th visitor on the web site. Our first
100,000 visitors took 11 months, our second 100,000 took less than
4 months!

Thanks everyone!
Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:37:09 -0500
From: "Dean & Liz Becker"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

Someone was asking about the removable top for a 78/79 Bronco. I have the
original window sticker from my 78 and the smoke windows with the sliding
glass was a $167.00 option.

I need to find out what the original Smog/emmssions equipment was on my 78
Bronco. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have to take the
vehicle into California. I spoke to the CA smog folks and they were no
help. The Ford Folks are researching, but still can not help.

The engine has a sticker that states:
NON CATAYST
This engine conforms to US enviornmental protection agency regulations
applicable to 1978 model year engines
Fueled Heavy Duty Engines
D8TE-9CA485-ACA

The bottom pully has no room for a Smog pump. I beleive there never was
one.
The engine is a 351M, this is the original motor.





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Date: Mon, 18 May 98 19:42:46 -0500
From: "Ronald D. Miller"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:'78 Ranchero parts source

>Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:53:19 EDT
>From: Hoover663
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - '78 ford Ranchero
>
>Does anyone know of places I can get parts,info,manuals,or a web site with
>pictures of Rancheros anything will be helpful

Auto Krafters, Inc. sells new and used 72-79 Ranchero parts. Free
catalogs for Ford truck list members. Send email request to
akraft shentel.net

Secure online ordering now available at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.auto krafters. com

Thanks, Ron Miller, President Auto Krafters. Inc.
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:07:16 -0500
From: Raymond Manire
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

Dean & Liz Becker wrote:
>
> Someone was asking about the removable top for a 78/79 Bronco. I have the
> original window sticker from my 78 and the smoke windows with the sliding
> glass was a $167.00 option.
>
> I need to find out what the original Smog/emmssions equipment was on my 78
> Bronco. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have to take the
> vehicle into California. I spoke to the CA smog folks and they were no
> help. The Ford Folks are researching, but still can not help.
>
> The engine has a sticker that states:
> NON CATAYST
> This engine conforms to US enviornmental protection agency regulations
> applicable to 1978 model year engines
> Fueled Heavy Duty Engines
> D8TE-9CA485-ACA
>
> The bottom pully has no room for a Smog pump. I beleive there never was
> one.
> The engine is a 351M, this is the original motor.
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================
as long as the tag sayes non catayst then there is noting to worey
about because most 4x4 up to 1980 were not required to have smog
equipment on the engine.
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:14:41 -0400
From: papacat webtv.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - military pride

dale & donna are correct. we need all of
our military . they all have a job to do and
each branchs job is unique.
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:54:37 -0500
From: "Michael R. Masse"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Bronco/

I believe the only emmisions related hardware on the 78 351M's is the
EGR valve and the fuel vapor canister and return line. No smog pump,
and no cat, but since your moving it to CA, that's an entire new ball of
wax. I don't live in CA, but
from what I've heard it doesn't matter what the original equipment was
if it wasn't a CA truck.
You have to find what the equipment was for a CA truck and throw all of
that junk on.

>
> I need to find out what the original Smog/emmssions equipment was on my 78
> Bronco. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have to take the
> vehicle into California. I spoke to the CA smog folks and they were no
> help. The Ford Folks are researching, but still can not help.
>

>
> The bottom pully has no room for a Smog pump. I beleive there never was
> one.
> The engine is a 351M, this is the original motor.
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:42:37 EDT
From: POLING4
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odds and ends

Hey Gary

Check out your proportional valve to locate the switch which will turn your
emergency light out. I had the same problem with mt 72

rick
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:44:42 EDT
From: POLING4
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '78 ford Ranchero

autocrafters.com

ask those folks
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:15:18 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Pigeon Forge Report

From: Ken Payne
>- 31 list members showed up. One member came from New Zealand! That's
> dedication!

There was a flood! Ya, that's it a flood. You know, "El Ninjo"! Ya "El
Ninjo" that's the ticket. I had to stay home with my wife, Morgan
Fairchild!

>- Group photo was taken Saturday around 11. Most members where in it.
> This will appear on the web site.

Mine's in the Post Office. :]

>- A new sense of direction, many of us sat down and talked about the
> future of FTE. Expect us to be an "official club" soon (lists will
> always be free). The future looks good.

And who was the first to mention us being a club? Thank you, thank you
and thank you. I have amazing powers of observation!

>- Universal agreement from 61-79 list members who attended that Deacon
> will be at next year's show, even if we have to tie him to the wing

Sounds like a lynch mob to me! Besides, Deacon don't fly. If God wanted
us to fly we would fart through feathers! It's not flying or crashing
that bothers me. It's screaming for 30,000 feet on the way down. :0

>Deacon's presence was sorely missed!

Funny, my wife wasn't all that happy about my presence! Just goes to
show,,,

>- Again, Deacon, you had to be there! I made sure I took many
> photos of 73-79 trucks to give you a good reason to be there
> next year!

I'll do my best to be there. Not to be sacrilegious but I don't want to
see the trucks as much as I would like to meet with the other members.
Hey, I have a heart! Cold, dark and uncaring but I have one. ;]

>In attendance (let me know if I miss anyone, sorry for any
>incorrect spelling):

I don't see Azie's name on the list. I did see Clare's name, which adds
to the lynch mob scenario I mentioned. Just kidding Clare, I know you
like me. After all we have so much in common. We both love our Ford
trucks, your a Biologist and I have this growth. :)

Leave my hook alone Stu! I'm tired of catching you just to throw you....


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