61-79-list-digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 283



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: F-150 weight
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid
Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems
FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light/Power Steering
RE: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light
FTE 61-79 - '68 F250 at it's new home + door glass question
FTE 61-79 - 74 Bronco for sale
Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days
Re: FTE 61-79 - Heat Soak
Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odd
Re: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Intake--Steve D.
Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:39:45 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: F-150 weight

> From: BlueOval77
> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:52:45 EDT
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: F-150 weight

> Probably the easiest and surest way to get the weight of your truck
> is, as referenced to in Gary Peter's letter to you, to take it over
> to your local gravel yard and put it on the scales. It only costs a
> couple of bucks and they may let you do it for free. Or, if you are
> in need of some gravel, buy a specific amount which they then will
> weigh on their scales while in your truck and subtract the
> difference.

You don't even need to do any math, the "Tare" is the truck weight
with you in it. Course if you want it in pounds you'll have to
convert it :-) Mine was 2.26 tons which convertes in my head to
4500# roughly. If I want to know what the .01 part is I'll have to
get out my calculator, my wife could do it in her head and she has
diabetes. where does that leave me?? :-) Actually I just figured it
out myself it's 20# so my truck weighs 4520# :-) (All this typing
gave me time to think about it :-))


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:08:40 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid

> From: "Kristen Marcellus"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid
> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:16:04 -0400

> On a more serious note - is it possible for brake fluid to go bad?
> Does synthetic brake fluid become thick when it gets older?
> Tomorrow I'm draining the brake fluid out of the system and need to
> know what I can do to flush it out and what's the best to put back
> in. The power brakes fail in stop and go traffic but straighten out
> once you get going again. If anyone has any idea why I'd really

Don't use the silicone stuff, it has a lower boiling point and is
more compressable than the dot 3 or 4. I believe the Silicone is dot
5 but can't remember. I have a very nice video and manual from my
brake bleeder tool kit that talks about all this stuff but I probably
won't remember to grab it in the AM so hopefully someone has the info
on the list...........:-)

Use the best, non silicone they have when you refill it. If you are
having problems you suspect are related to dirt you probably should
remove all the cylinders and clean them out and then flush the lines
with air and a little brake fluid to wash them out while the
cylinders are off. Don't forget to remove the proportioning valve
when you do this and rinse it out too.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:25:10 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

> From: Kitin10
> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:07:32 EDT
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

> HELP! I have a 1979 Ford F 100 pickup. My fiance is trying to get
> the drums on the rear wheels off, and he can't seem to do it.
> Everyone we have talked to said to "beat" them off with a hammer. ?
> Also, what is the right way to get the rear wheel axles out? = Ford

I've read all the replies so far and agree for the most part with a
few exceptions:

You should not ever need to uses heat to get the drums off. I have
before too till I discovered exactly what was going on with the
center hole thing. Use a "RUBBER" mallet not a hammer to whack the
drum on its periphery, the outer corner facing you at about a 45
degree angle. A dead blow hammer is best but a cheap rubber one will
work. This angle and the dull thunk of the rubber hammer will walk
the center off the hub so you can easily take it the rest of the way
off after loosening the adjusters as everyone already mentioned.

The axle can be easily pulled with some small (3/16 or 1/4") chain
(of course it needs to fit over the lugs so you may need to expand
the end links or use a slightly larger chain) and a weight if the
tire idea doesn't get it done. The reason you leave the tire loose
on the lugs is so it can act as a slide hammer and you can get a
small amount of momentum when you yank on it.

If you use the chain tighten the nuts on the links fairly snug so
there's no loosenes for them to damage the threads and just insert a
large hammer or other weight in the loop of the chain and yank on the
axle with the weight. This is not a highly controlled method so be
aware that the axle may come out rather briskly this way.

If you expect to do more than one vehicle or do the same one often I
highly recommend getting a kit that includes a universal front damper
puller and the long rod and slide hammer that screws into it to adapt
it to pulling axles or simply an axle slide hammer. It really makes
the job effortless and you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner.
Proto and OTC make these and can be had from Granger or most any
auto parts store.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:26:41 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light/Power Steering

Hi Garry,

Are you talking about the little round lamp on the lower left of the dash? If
so, I don't think this is connected to the emergency brake, but rather to the
proportioning valve for the brake system. This is located on the inside of the
frame just below the driver's feet. On a 67', I'm not sure if this thing is
really a proportioning valve or just a machined brake line junction. Maybe
drum brakes on both front and rear don't require proportioning....I'm sure
there are some people here who can clear this up.

Anyway, there is a little plastic connector with two wires coming out of it
that pops into the top of the valve. I know you can still get these at Ford
for about $10. I don't know if its the switch or not, but could it be an
indication of something funny going on with the brake system?

As far as power steering, perhaps either your belt is a little loose or your
system needs a "re-bleed". If you jack up the front wheels, with the engine
running, and crank the wheel all the way in one direction, turn off the engine
and let it sit for 10-15 minutes and then repeat this in the other direction
and then repeat the cycle two or three times, you will probably get most of
the air out.....give a little more info here. By the way, you can get a re-
built steering pump no problem, but be careful, most of them seem to be junk!
You might get it from Ford. Even though it will cost more, it will most likely
save you a big hassle in the long run.

Good Luck,

Colorado Jeff


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:31:41 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid

maybe a vacuum leak?? or if you have a high performance engine, it doen't
make enough vacuum at idle (less than 8"-9" may cause a problem), meaning
you need a vacuum can.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Kristen Marcellus[SMTP:MrsSlix66 email.msn.com]
Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 12:16 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake Fluid

G'day all!

The power brakes fail in
stop and go traffic but straighten out once you get going again. If anyone
has any idea why I'd really appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks!
Kristen (MrsSlix66 email.msn.com)


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:52:18 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Trucks (was Split wood, Politics, etc.)

Thanks for your message at 02:13 PM 5/15/98 -0600, Dave Resch. Your message
was:
>If you have the proper metaphysical frame of mind (or was that state of
>mind?), you can see how Everything in the Universe is related to Ford
>trucks.
>
Even the blue hat I bought in BLiss, Idaho, yesterday with the Ford oval?
I was so proud until my wife pointed out that it really said "Foxd."

By the way, I think you are halfway to a PhD dissertation with this idea.
You've convinced me, anyway.


1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1970 Marquis 429
1973 Mustang 302 (tired)
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:47:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

Oh My!!!!! Pigeon Forge was SSSOOOOOOO awesome!!!! I had only 5 hours to
shop for parts, (sounds like a woman! SHOP!) and look at trucks before
heading back.
The video I was going to shoot and copy for distribution wound up one major
glitch
and only about 4 minutes of tape was taken before technical difficulties
struck. I am sorry, especially to William Ballinger, whom I promised to
send a copy.
;(

After seeing a sea full of trucks, I am even more inspired, NOT that I have
become uninspired, to get my truck finished before May 1999. A lofty goal
but we are working hard to attain it. Save me space next year Gary B.
beside your 67.....

For you 427 Cammer people, The Cobalt Blue 427 SOHC 1956 Effie was one of
the most awesome and fear inspiring rigs I have seen in quite awhile! The
67-72 crwod enjoyed many , many fine looking rigs! But, Probably the nicest
truck IMHO, and it is a very humble opinion, was the 2 tone baby blue/white
66 model F-100 4x2 someone had perfectly restored to stock! Gorgeous and
slick!!

The greatest part of the brief journey was getting to meet all the guys and
gals that showed up from the list. Just absolutely awesome. Finally a name
and face can go together. Too Awesome!

Last but not least, Ken, Peggy and kids, thanks for all the hard work and
dedication.
I think I just realized the magnitude of work involved with the
website/mailing list this weekend as I saw everyone scurrying around! I
am even more priveledged than I thought to be a part of it all!! Thank you!
I can't say it often enough or sincerely enough!!

If you have never been to Pigeon Forge, THIS IS A MUST!!
Plan for next year!!

Stu
Nuke GM!!

visit my homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:49:35 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light

>Well I have a few problems that have been lingering since the
>restoration was completed on my 67 F100. My emergency brake light will
>not go off. I have a wiring diagram and still cannot locate the d *n
>switch. Does anyone know were it is and how I go about changing it or
>making it work or something. I would really like it to work. Emergency
>brake works great.
>
Do you have disc brakes? If so the light can be activated by your
proportioning valve or your emergency brake. In both cases, the light is
hot when the key is on and is grounded by the brake lever or the valve.
Also the wire to one of these devices might be shorted to ground. I'll
take a look at my '68 (which does have disc brakes) and let you know what
to look for.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:49:34 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '68 F250 at it's new home + door glass question

Just got my new toy home on Saturday to my wife's great delight. :-) 80K
original miles and still has the original seat cover and rubber floor mats
in excellent condition. Mildew to beat the band, however, so yesterday I
just took a hose to it, inside and out. The guy I bought it from reports
it came to his lot 9 years ago and hadn't moved since. The inspection
sticker and tags are for '83, so this thing hasn't been out on the road any
appreciable amount for some 15 years. The tailgate has been down for at
least 10 years with a camper on it and yet the latches still worked fine.
Built Ford tough!

My immediate need is a right side door glass so I can keep the rain out.
Does anybody know if any other years besides '67-'72 fits this truck? I
seem to recall that some things were carried over into '73-'79 bodystyle
but don't know if door glass is included. What can I use here?



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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:53:23 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 74 Bronco for sale

While driving over to our machine shop in Boulder, Colorado, I noticed a 74
Bronco parked on the side of the road. It looks to be in real good shape, with
a relatively new engine (12,000 miles). The guy is asking $2,750 for it,
sounds like a steal to me. Please send me a message if interested and I can
pass on the telephone number....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:03:32 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days

Thanks for your message at 03:24 PM 5/15/98 +0000, Gary, 78 BBB. Your
message was:
>> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:01:53 -0500
>> From: "John LaGrone"
>> Subject: FTE 61-79 - slow days
>
>>
>> For John Hammell: Watch out for that tranny fluid. I insisted
>> earlier that my 79 C6 uses Dexron II. My truck wouldn't back up

I have a C6 that I only driven a very very short distance. Does the C6
have a "hill holder"? The "backing up"
comment reminded me of advice I got years ago from my Lifelong Ford
Mechanic uncle, who advised me to always test a Ford Cruise-o-matic by
backing it up a hill. If it shuddered when in reverse under load, his
advice was to "forget it." He explained that it was common for the case to
develop a crack due to drivers carelessly dropping the tranny into Drive or
Low while the car was rolling backwards, thus engaging the hill-holder pin
and eventually usually stressing the tranny to the point of cracking the
housing. I don't know if this applies to the C6, but I always enjoy
recalling Uncle Vern's Ford Tips. He'd be proud to see my backyard.





>
>Ford trannys have NEVER used Dextron II but the new Dextron III is
>supposed to meet the new ford Mercon spec and so is theoretically
>backward compatible. I haven't tried it yet myself but that's what I
>put in my hoist hydraulic system the other day so I have some spare
>qts lying around.........
>
>
1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1970 Marquis 429
1973 Mustang 302 (tired)
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:59:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Heat Soak

> From: "Jim Cron"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Heat Soak
> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 02:43:38 -0700

> Holley double pumper Q-jet replacement on it that is certainly not
> the answer to any question I might have asked for my stock 390. I
> have some Q-jets on hand also, but with the hassle of changing these
> manifolds just have not taken the time to put it all together.

Is this the 4165 version of the Holley? It has the same flaws as the
4150/4160's do :-( The Rochester is a whole nuther smoke :-)

There is an Offenhauser dual/dual plane manifold made especially for
the Rochester in a ford application and it's the only one I know of
made for that. PAW has a whole page dedicated to it in their
catalog. Personally I would not use an open spacer with a split
plenum nor would I use and adapter on a square bore manifold because
both of these methods take away a considerable part of the advantage
of the rochester carb IMHO. Garry seems to have pretty good luck
with his but with a proper manifold I bet he'd do evern better..:-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:59:34 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

>> Everyone we have talked to said to "beat" them off with a hammer. ?
>> Also, what is the right way to get the rear wheel axles out? = Ford

>I've read all the replies so far and agree for the most part with a
>few exceptions:
>
>You should not ever need to uses heat to get the drums off. I have
>before too till I discovered exactly what was going on with the
>center hole thing. Use a "RUBBER" mallet not a hammer to whack the
>drum on its periphery, the outer corner facing you at about a 45
>degree angle. A dead blow hammer is best but a cheap rubber one will
>work. This angle and the dull thunk of the rubber hammer will walk
>the center off the hub so you can easily take it the rest of the way
>off after loosening the adjusters as everyone already mentioned.

Gary,
Next time my drums need to come off I wish You'd come show me Your
technique...
I'd bet You could beat mine with a dead blow hammer from any direction
You want and not have them off in a 1/2 hour. Been there, done that.

About 10 seconds with the propane torch and they practically jump off
into Your lap. It doesn't take much heat, just a smidge.
Learned that one from an old guy who was a Ford mechanic for most of the
50's, 60's and 70's...

Steve

Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

"When you stop learning, stop listening, stop looking
and asking questions, always new questions,
then it is time to die." -- Lillian Smith

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:13:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odd

> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:49:58 -0400
> From: Garry Bowling
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Emergency brake light, Speedometer and other odds and ends

> Speedometer: ever since I swapped the 3 spd tranny and installed a
> C-6 the speedometer is 8 mph off. It registers too fast. Also the
> needle bounces a whole lot until you get going about 30 or 40.. I

New cable with no grease will still stick, needs lube but if you did
lube it then the speedo bearings may be allowing the drum to hit the
sides causing momentary lurches etc..

You can get new plastic gears for the tranny end of the speedo cable
but not sure what you have so can't make a suggestion. I've heard 17
teeth is the smallest but someone corrected his with the same setup I
have and I have the 17 tooth so there must be some smaller ones
available......??

> Forge I stopped at a rest area in Georgia and left the truck running
> with the A/C on (SWMBO) was waiting in the cab. Took about 5 mins.
> When we got back on the road the truck seemed to be real sluggish
> like it wasn't getting gas but cleared up within 15 or 25 seconds.

Could be vapor lock, the A/C produces a large amount of heat and at
idle there isn't enough fan rpm to take care of it so while the
coolant may not over heat, the engine compartment may be getting
super heated which will have the same effect on the fuel system.

> Steering makes
> noise. I am suspecting the pump may be acting up. Can these be

Not sure which one you have but some are hard to bleed. My rebuild
came with an instruction sheet and like a wimp I actually read it and
it suggested jacking up the front end so the tires are off the ground
and moving the steering from lock to lock (very slowly to prevent
spillage) several times with the engine off to completely bleed it.

I gave it a try after thinking I had damaged the pump somehow and
it's quiet now except for the "whooshing" sound when I turn the
wheels but no buzzing anymore. I discovered my belt is a bit loose
too so this may contribute to the noise I have too, not sure.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:19:18 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Intake--Steve D.

At 03:12 PM 5/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey Steve. Just out of curiosity, if you had it to do over again, what
>intake would you choose? Would you stick to the behemoth Ford intake (Ow!!
>My Sternum!) or would you look for another aftermarket?
>
>Just curious. When I get the cash I want to upgrade to a 4V.

Hmmm. I dunno... Origionally I wanted the performer RPM, but the smog
nazis wouldn't let me. Now that I've got "edelbrock experiance" I'd look
for something non-ebrock. Maybe something from Dove?
Or maybe a stock manifold in aluminum, like the police interceptor manifold.
The stock 4-bbl manifolds aren't that bad performance-wise, just way too
damned heavy at 78lbs...

Steve

Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

"When you stop learning, stop listening, stop looking
and asking questions, always new questions,
then it is time to die." -- Lillian Smith

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:24:27 -0400
From: "David Butts"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

Loosen the emergency brake, and make sure it is off. You can also adjust
the shoes a little looser.

If you have to get a bigger hammer to get the drums off, make sure to
replace them with new ones. They can crack....

Good luck.
- -----Original Message-----
From: JJJJJGRANT
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems


>has the truck been sitting for a while? if it has,they're probably
rusted.you
>can take
>a hammer and hit all the way around the drum several times,no need to hit
it
>real hard,just steady consistent blows.of course the adjusters need to be
all
>the way in.
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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>=======================================================================

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:19:24 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days

> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:03:32 -0700
> From: Dennis Pearson
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - slow days

> I have a C6 that I only driven a very very short distance. Does the
> C6 have a "hill holder"? The "backing up" comment reminded me of
> advice I got years ago from my Lifelong Ford Mechanic uncle, who

Only thing I can think of is the parking pawl which only comes into
play in park?? Normally reverse is the only gear that will work when
everything else quits and when cold, if you put it in reverse to get
the fluid moving or the cluches loosened up you can put it back in
drive and it will catch right away usually where if you slap it into
drive right away sometimes it won't seem to hook up.

I've never had one chatter till my 94 with EAOD converter clutches....


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