61-79-list-digest Saturday, May 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 280



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
Re: FTE 61-79 - ...no subject...
FTE 61-79 - Shot Out of the Saddle
FTE 61-79 - Re: Which U-joints?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted
FTE 61-79 - Cpntest
Re: FTE 61-79 - where to find the door panels?
FTE 61-79 - one more try
Re: FTE 61-79 - Power Brake swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - one more try
FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
FTE 61-79 - freeze plugs
FTE 61-79 - military pride
FTE 61-79 - Anyone heard?
FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:06:31 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:17:38 -0700
> From: Pat Brown
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube

> > By the way, my repro FoMoCo lube stickers from Jim Osborn also say
> > to use 50W.
>
> The original sticker on my '70 F-250 (T-18) (Inside glove box door)
> says:
>
> | Initial Fill For
> | 4 speed manual transmission
> | 4WD transfer case
> | SAE50W Engine Oil
> | Switch to 30W for winter if hard shifting is encountered

Now I AM worried!? I've always used 90w in mine :-( I wonder if
that's why all the bearings seem to be coming apart? 3rd gear is
getting more rattley every day seems like. (only notice it when I get
on it hard) (still think it may be a missing pilot bearing)



78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:17:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:44:42 -0600
> From: Ryan Dorman
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

> Interesting, the big block mounts we bought at Rush Auto Parts in
> Idaho Falls Idaho, were bolt in items??? but hey the 7 people(3
> Bronco's,4 F-150's) that now have 460/429's in thier trucks are
> buying tune-up parts for 460/429's and putting them on 400's...

Like I said, got a phone number for them? BTW, tune up parts are
exactly the same for these engines so yes they can do that with one
exception, the dist mechanical advance curve which is very critical
to proper operation. Every thing on (on the outside of) them is
interchangeable except some of the accessory brackets and spark plugs
,of course, vary some.


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:20:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ...no subject...

> Date: Fri, 15 May 98 17:10:55 -0700
> From: "SGT CHRISTOPHER S DENSON"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - ...no subject...

> the Navy, why is that? So who's the real dumb dumbs here? What your
> Army Ranger Special Forces do is just another day for our regular

I once watched a ranger captain blow up a couple of guys by mistake
while doing a demo (showing us his stuff) Fortunately they only had
skin lacerations and no serious injurys. He used a det cap to blow
up a coffee can and didn't bother to get us out of the way.......:-(

BTW, he was demonstrating the dangers of det caps......:-) I don't
think he planned on real footage of a disaster for the demo :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:52:13 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Shot Out of the Saddle

Well, I tried to make it to Pidgeon Forge, but severe weather caused one of my
connecting flights to be cancelled. Because of this, I couldn't get to
Knoxville until late Saturday....so I gave up and got a return flight to
Denver and cut my losses...

Sure was disappointed not to be able to meet you'all.....I'll get er' next
year...

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:21:31 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Which U-joints?

Sorry OX,

I'm putting a new Dana 60 rear axle in. I just took out my old Dana 60-2 (1/2
ton, semi floating) and was curious if the rear driveline U-joints were going
to fit into the new full-floating axle yoke....I'll measure it myself today to
see what I've got....

Colorado Jeff

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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:16:28 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:36:43 -0600
> From: Ryan Dorman
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Balanced and Blueprinted

> What I meant was : In terms that people with limited
> machinest/engine knowledge could understand..(not everyone is
> experienced enough with engines to understand the barage of
> technical terms.)

I knew that, I was just taking a stab at being Deacon for a minute
:-) Sorry I don't know any song lyrics :-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:56:57 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cpntest

>To Ryan Dorman,
>How many Army dogs are there? 400,000+? There's 174,000 Marines. Now, let's
>talk about ASVAB scores, The Marine Corps comes in second behind the Air
>Farce while the Army comes in a distant last behind the Navy, why is that? So
>who's the real dumb dumbs here? What your Army Ranger Special Forces do is
>just another day for our regular grunts. Just proves not everybody can be a
>Marine while anybody can be a soldier. What kind of training do you do? A-
>R-M-Y T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G S-I-R!!!!!!!!!! Semper Fi soldier.

Ah Jeez we ain't gonna have a mil-spec pissin contest here are we? This is
gonna get ugly.....

But, thanks to all of you for keeping our country safe.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:51:10 EDT
From: POLING4
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - where to find the door panels?

Hey

Check out autocrafters.com and hopefully they can turn you on to your panels
if not check out Dennis Carpenters shop he can get anything.

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:04:36 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - one more try

There must be someone on this list who knows the answer to these questions:
Who was the manufacturer for the rear side windows on the 78/79 Bronco?,
and can these windows still be had?
These were not the common solid glass ones, but the ones that had an
opening section in the front third (or so) of the window. They may have
been a dealer option? I have seen them on trucks from all over so I don't
think it wasn't just a regional thing. I have also seen the same type of
window on Bl zerz so I am guessing that it wasn't an OEM thang.
Anyone?

Come on I know that someone knows...
If you don't want to reply here in front of the family, contact me off line.

Chris
79 Bronco





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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:28:36 -0500
From: Raymond Manire
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Power Brake swap

MR RYAN STACK wrote:
>
> I have a 72' Bronco with manual brakes. The master cylinder needs
> replaced. I was wondering if it is possible to swap in a power brake
> unit from a full size Bronco, or a pickup
> If it is then I would like to know how it might be done, and what
> problems I might run into.
>
> thanks
> ryan
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There are afew thinges you will nead the first is a brake boster for
power brakes.Place's like obslite Ford can send you in the right
dircetion.but my first question I have is why? inless you have an engine
the built to the max. ,then there is no real reason for the convirsion
in the first place.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:39:32 -0500
From: Raymond Manire
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - one more try

Chris Samuel wrote:
>
> There must be someone on this list who knows the answer to these questions:
> Who was the manufacturer for the rear side windows on the 78/79 Bronco?,
> and can these windows still be had?
> These were not the common solid glass ones, but the ones that had an
> opening section in the front third (or so) of the window. They may have
> been a dealer option? I have seen them on trucks from all over so I don't
> think it wasn't just a regional thing. I have also seen the same type of
> window on Bl zerz so I am guessing that it wasn't an OEM thang.
> Anyone?
>
> Come on I know that someone knows...
> If you don't want to reply here in front of the family, contact me off line.
>
> Chris
> 79 Bronco
>
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> =======================================================================
the windows that you are asking about were kind of an dealer option, not
all Bronco's had them.It is hard to find iteam. I used to have an 78
bronco that did not have them.Wish I stile had the truck.
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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:17:06 -0500
From: Raymond Manire
Subject: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

I nead some help with a couple of questions about an C-6 trans.I am
restoring an 1977,Super-Cab with an 400 with a c-6.I ahve all ready
had the trans.,rebuilt thank's to the bozo who rebuilt it wrong before
i got the truck.To top it off as well some other bozo pored brake fluid
into the trans.Some one removed the Trans.kicked down rod.I nead to know
if it neads to be put back on.Second sence I had the trans. rebuilt it
seames to be going into second I took it back to shop they informed me
the the trans. was shifting slowly an they want to put in a shift kit. I
nead some advice on what to do.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:32:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:17:06 -0500
> From: Raymond Manire
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

> brake fluid into the trans.Some one removed the Trans.kicked down
> rod.I nead to know if it neads to be put back on.Second sence I had
> the trans. rebuilt it seames to be going into second I took it back
> to shop they informed me the the trans. was shifting slowly an they
> want to put in a shift kit. I nead some advice on what to do. = Ford

Does it stay in second when you come to a complete stop? If so a
shift kit won't help because the governor is binding and won't allow
the 1-2 shift or the modulator pin is wrong or the modulator itself
is wrong.

If it won't go into high gear then the fluid is not getting where it
needs to go for some reason, usually low fluid but could be a
blockage somewhere. These problems are one of the reasons the parts
only cost $150 but the labor and warantee cost on a rebuild are quite
high due to the high return rate so the total often comes to well
over $500 up to over $1000 depending on the shop.

A freshly rebuilt C-6 with type F fluid should not do what you
describe but if they put Dextron II in it you better take them to
court and get your $500 cuz it won't work with that stuff in there.


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:13:12 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube

My Haynes manual says that the manual trans & xfer case should take SAE
140W gear oil. It does seem to agree with the owners manual on my 79 F250
4X4 except the Ford spec is one letter off. The Haynes manual says Ford #
ESO-M2C83-C for the manual fluid while the owners manual has the #
ESP-M2C83-C but no SAE weight spec for the manual trans/xfer case.

As for autos the C6 takes Dexron and all other autos take Type F. This is
the same in both Haynes and the factory owners manual.
- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
> Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 1:06 AM
>
> Now I AM worried!? I've always used 90w in mine :-( I wonder if
> that's why all the bearings seem to be coming apart? 3rd gear is
> getting more rattley every day seems like. (only notice it when I get
> on it hard) (still think it may be a missing pilot bearing)
>
>

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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:17:54 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

Interesting that the owners manual calls specifically for Dexron II in C6s.
At least on my 1979.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
> Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 7:32 AM
>
> A freshly rebuilt C-6 with type F fluid should not do what you
> describe but if they put Dextron II in it you better take them to
> court and get your $500 cuz it won't work with that stuff in there.
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:30:02 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:17:54 -0700

> Interesting that the owners manual calls specifically for Dexron II
> in C6s. At least on my 1979.

My 92 tbird owners manual still calls for type F. There is a spec #
for this and it may be covered by the materials in the Dextron II but
in my experience the Dextron II won't shift right in a ford tranny.

Maybe it was just the tranny's I've had and specific to some anomoly
of the tranny itself, don't know but even the oil company techs seem
to agree that type F is better than dextron II and maybe they don't
really know either but one thing's for sure, you won't hurt any
tranny by running type F so when in doubt.........:-)

I'm going to break my tradition though very soon by running AMSOIL
synthetic ATF which is like Dextron III in spec but has the synthetic
advantages which over come some deficiencies in the spec from what
I've been told. Can't do any worse than the stuff they put in at the
factory because I have a tranny with 50k miles on it and it's junk
just like Tiffany's.

Wonder how she's coming on that. I think I was supposed to get some
phone numbers but haven't got them yet, dang old age, absent
mindedness..........:-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:36:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube

> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:13:12 -0700

> My Haynes manual says that the manual trans & xfer case should take
> SAE 140W gear oil. It does seem to agree with the owners manual on
> my 79 F250 4X4 except the Ford spec is one letter off. The Haynes

The NP 435 and 205's are the same in any application so should take
the same lube. I can believe 50wt high pressure lube but not motor
oil and I can believe 90 wt but not 140 in these boxes.

140 is usually used in the large truck gear boxes and really pulls
the power down when cold I can tell you.

These darned manuals are so full of misprints it's hard to know for
sure anymore. I'll try to look it up in my Helms service manual and
see what it calls for on both types but don't count on me remembering
to do it ................:-(


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:53:25 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

The Ford spec # for Dexron II is ESP-M2C138-CJ. Type F is ESW-M2C33-F. Both
manuals I have agree on this at least.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.
> Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 8:30 AM
>
>
>
> My 92 tbird owners manual still calls for type F. There is a spec #
> for this and it may be covered by the materials in the Dextron II but
> in my experience the Dextron II won't shift right in a ford tranny.
>

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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:57:02 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube

Yeah, this Haynes manual even has 2 different #s for Type F in 2 different
places. I'd be really skeptical of putting 140 in except in the middle of
the desert in summer. I use 80W90 in diffs and xfer cases.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Correct trans & case lube
> Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 8:36 AM
>
>
> These darned manuals are so full of misprints it's hard to know for
> sure anymore. I'll try to look it up in my Helms service manual and
> see what it calls for on both types but don't count on me remembering
> to do it ................:-(
>
>

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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:02:18 -0600
From: Ryan Dorman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - C-6 trans.

I would suggest finding a tranny shop that will at least give you the
courtesy of a reach around
before they bend you over... The c-6 is capable of fast/hard shifting
without a shift kit.
Your tranny shop more than likely backed the vacum modulator out
intentionally to make it shift
slow, Then they recomend having them install a shift kit, wich
coincidentally would void the warranty.. I could be wrong on this one but I
seriously doubt it...

Raymond Manire wrote:

> I nead some help with a couple of questions about an C-6 trans.I am
> restoring an 1977,Super-Cab with an 400 with a c-6.I ahve all ready
> had the trans.,rebuilt thank's to the bozo who rebuilt it wrong before
> i got the truck.To top it off as well some other bozo pored brake fluid
> into the trans.Some one removed the Trans.kicked down rod.I nead to know
> if it neads to be put back on.Second sence I had the trans. rebuilt it
> seames to be going into second I took it back to shop they informed me
> the the trans. was shifting slowly an they want to put in a shift kit. I
> nead some advice on what to do.
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
> =======================================================================



- --
KC7YPJ, Ryan Dorman
QTH: Victor ID, grid# DN431c
ICQ #3834602
kc7ypj pdt.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/5496


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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:03:50 -0500
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - freeze plugs

When I was a teenager, my dad and I spent two years changing all the freeze
plugs in a 318 mopar one at a time. Every few months a new one would start
to leak. We didn't get smart enough until it was too late to realize that
it would have been much easier and cheaper to pull the engine when the first
one went and replace them all. If one has corroded through, then the others
aren't far behind.

later,
dale c


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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:10:34 -0500
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - military pride

Guys,
We really don't care what branch of the service you work for. If you are
interested in basing on others, please do it off list. All I really want to
hear about is your truck.

TIA
dale c

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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:40:34 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Anyone heard?

Has anyone seen or heard from Tyler Wilkens? He was the one who went south
from Wisconsin and an 18 wheeler crushed his truck while he was in the
restaurant eating breakfast.....He said after that that he had a bunch of
parts for sale...

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:07:32 EDT
From: Kitin10
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '79 F-100 problems

HELP! I have a 1979 Ford F 100 pickup. My fiance is trying to get the drums
on the rear wheels off, and he can't seem to do it. Everyone we have talked to
said to "beat" them off with a hammer. ? Also, what is the right way to get
the rear wheel axles out?
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