61-79-list-digest Wednesday, May 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 270



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
FTE 61-79 - long haired hippie type
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
FTE 61-79 - 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT
Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
FTE 61-79 - targets and rebuilds
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....
FTE 61-79 - The legend and amen.

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:38:53 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?

66 F100 has a pull lever located to the left of the steering wheel and
bolted underneath the dash.
John
66 F100 240-I6
68 LTD 302 w/AOD
96 Ranger Splash 4.0 (I hate liters)

From:Mike Warren
Anybody have any idea what type of emergency brake system is on a 1966
F100 - I had assumed it was a pedal, however people are mentioning it
might be a pull lever. - Also, where is it located? - I had been looking
for the pedal which is not there - where would the pull handle be?

Thanks
Mike
66 F100 Custom Cab - Short Bed

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:47:08 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

:) I will agree strongly with, shooting
>people is a crime, owning a gun is a right! It scared the crap out
of me
>when OJ used a knife. I figured we would have to give up steak! :)

My dentures can't handle chewin steak with no knife! I banned
chest freezers
when Jeffrey Dahmer got caught and showed up in prison. Didn't want
anyone
getting the wrong idea about me! I use an upright now to keep my
steak er
um, what am i saying.......teachers can't afford steak! I mean
ground beef in.

Hey Stu; Steak is okay once of a Ford Blue Moon and only if you
buy/butcher your own steer. Besides us military and retired types are not
much better off :-)

John
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:51:07 -0400
From: "David Butts"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?

Put in a 460.

Jeff's Bronco Graveyard sells a kit with all the parts you will need.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Gregory A. Bunton
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 11:21 PM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 78 Ford Bronco - Sell or Replace Engine?


>Hello all, this is my first posting. I own a 78 Ford Bronco, and love it.
>I recently thought I needed a new Oil Pump...but the mechanic told me the
>engine is just about done. Now this truck is pretty much original....but I
>don't know whether to replace the engine or sell it. Any suggestions???
>
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:08:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

>Hey Stu; Steak is okay once of a Ford Blue Moon and only if you
>buy/butcher your own steer. Besides us military and retired types are not
>much better off :-)
>

My brother Stevie (he's the mortician ;^| ) Not someone to make mad at
you, in West Virginia runs the old family farm (registered Herefords)and
butchers a half of one for me every year, my other brother gets the other
half, Stevie's a nice brother......too bad he owns a Chebby truck.....he's
the black sheep in the family!
Not because he likes Chebby's, but because it was the only thing he could find
that was 3/4 ton 4x4 at the time.

While I am really off topic, let me ask a normal, Ford truck related
question just to keep it honest and Ken off my back, :) I use this
forum sometimes beyond its intended limits and Ken never says a word. Thanks!

Anyone have a 70, 71, 72 instrument panel cover without the wood grain on it
sitting around waiting for a good home? Mine has the wood grain and I am
converting from Ranger trim to Custom trim inside and out! I don't need the
guts, just the cover!
thanks

stu
Nuke GM!
visit the old home page at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:06:39 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

>From: Steve & Rockette
>> A buddy at work asked (axed??) me today if I could find out if
>>he could put F350 rear springs on his F100, he wants to use
>>it to haul his camper, it does have a Dana 60 in it now, with a
>>cheesy helper spring. What do you guys think??

It's still raining here but during a brake in the pouring rain, I
did a quick check. Both my '73 F100 and '76 F350 have 2 1/2" wide
springs and 54" long. However the F350 has spring stops for the helper
springs on the frame. Without the spring stops the helper springs will
do nothing. The frame on the F350 is a lot bigger than the F100's. It
looks possible to do but stops will need to be added on the frame.
It was still raining and I didn't look at them very long, so don't
take this as gospel. If you still need information on this when the rain
stops I'll be happy to get it for you.

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:20:10 -0400
From: "David Butts"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

Cool.


Could a couple of inches be gained by putting 350 springs on a 150?

79 Bronco to be specific.

ThanX
- -----Original Message-----
From: Deacon
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs


>From: Steve & Rockette
>> A buddy at work asked (axed??) me today if I could find out if
>>he could put F350 rear springs on his F100, he wants to use
>>it to haul his camper, it does have a Dana 60 in it now, with a
>>cheesy helper spring. What do you guys think??
>
>If it's not raining here in Southern California (it never rains. Ha!)
>tomorrow. I'll go take some measurements on my F350 and compare them to
>my F100. From looking at them, I don't see why not.
>
>
>Deacon
>deconblu gte.net
>=============================
>Nuke the unborn baby whales.
>=============================
>Deacon's
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
>
>
>
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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>"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
>=======================================================================

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - long haired hippie type


are you referring to "long haired, hippie-type, pinko fag"

it's a line from a Charlie Daniels song "Uneasy Rider" its about a
yankee boy travelling thru the south on the way to California and his
acquaintenance with some good ole boys at the Dew-Drop Inn in
Mississippi...classic song
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:40:29 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

>> Almost any first-time engine builder who has a little
>> patience and is willing to ask some questions when they're not sure
>> about something can do as good a job as most proffesional shops.
>> Probably better, cuz You *really* care about how good a job gets
>> done, and they usually just care about getting paid and going
>> home.

>Steve, I agree that it's fun and very satisfying but I disagree with
>this statement, sorry. Been there and done that myself and there are
>little things a person simply doesn't have time to learn on the first
>rebuild just from reading books and asking questions. If you know
>what questions to ask you can get answers, but if you don't know a
>problem exists how do you phrase the question? I didn't get a real
>handle on it till I actually took a local CC class on rebuilding and
>bought a text book for the purpose.

Well, I'd concede that a good experianced engine builder knows the
little things to look for and the tricks of the trade, and has the
*potential* to do a better job. But they don't always...

I've been inside enough "profesionally" rebuilt motors that died
early deaths because the "professional" didn't pay attention.
Like a 350 ch*vy that was bored 0.040" over and had 6 +.040" pistons
in it and 2 +.020" pistons in it.(yeah, it smoked a little)
How about a datsun "mass rebuild warehouse" motor that ran for about
3500 miles before it ate all the main bearings. When we opened it we
found a bunch of hard gritty carbon stuff all embeded in the toasted
bearings. We used a gun cleaning rod and got about a tablespoon full
of crusty crap out of the oil galleys. Apparently the "rebuild" shop
was too busy to clean them out or something...
A company I worked for had a "reputable" bay area shop rebuild the
motor in a salesmans ch*vy, and it ran O.K, but never seemed to have
good power afterwards.
Later inspection revealed that the cam was installed one tooth off...
I worked on a *brand new*, very expensive german industrial diesel
that broke its crankshaft after 80 hours of service. When we got the
pan off we discovered the rear main cap was laying in the sump. 5 others
were loose with the bolts no more than finger tight, and one seemed
to be fully torqued down. Ooops, guess someone forgot to torque all of 'em.

How does stuff like that happen? Because someone didn't pay attention,
didn't care, it was monday and they were hung-over, the boss was yelling
that the freight truck was gonna be here in an hour and that motor better
be ready to ship, add Your own excuse here...
That kind of stuff is totally avoidable when You do it Yourself.

Certainly there's lots of good shops out there turning out quality
motors, but unless You are on intimate terms with a small shop You really
don't know who's doing Your work. Is it a patient experianced builder
or some flunky that just got a job at his uncles shop for $7/hour after
he lost his burger-world job? Uhhhhh huhhuh, motor's are cool Beavis...
Does the shop really take the time to check the detail stuff, or do
they just try to get as many motors a month out the door as possible?
You pays Your money and You takes Your chances...

I wouldn't suggest someone with no experiance build a 8000RPM, high stressed,
"gotta get it just right or it'll grenade" type motor for a first rebuild,
but why not do a relatively stock rebuild on a 300/6 Yourself?
You send the block, heads and crank off to the machine shop for whatever
machine work You need on them anyway. When they come back it's mostly a matter
of cleaning everything, make sure no bolt holes are munged up and run a tap
down them if necessary, check the bearing clearances with plastigauge,
check piston/cyl clearances and ring end-gaps with feeler gauges, lube stuff
up and torque it to spec, use a *good shop manual* and some common sense.
Lots of people do successful, long lasting, "first-time" rebuilds on stuff
with little more than a book, a few hand tools, and some patience.
And lots did it long before there were email lists to turn too for help...

I don't see that there's anything very tricky to look for on a 300/6 rebuild.
It's not for everyone and if someone doesn't really want to do it then
certainly they shouldn't, but I still think that anyone with a desire,
a good shop manual and some patiance and common sense can do a good job
of it the first time thru. We all start somewhere.


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:40:32 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

>Only 1800#? on 250 springs? Oh, but you said 9" didn't you? That's
>the rub. Can't get tires good enough for much more than that, dang!
>I can easily haul 2 tons on mine but the tires can't handle it. Got
>to find some 16", 5 lug, 5.5" bold circle rims...........:-(

The 1800lb limit wasn't because the truck couldn't take more, it was
just all the free firewood I could get. (-:


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:45:56 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT

>The guy I bought it off of said it was stock, and had the engine
>rebuild in 89 and said it was a 390. And I had to by a new carb for it and
>a couple of other things like the starter and water temp do hickey, and
>every part I got was for a 390 and fit fine. Is there any way to tell on
>the external part of the engine? Any info is appreciated. Thanks in
>advance. Tony
>
I am not much of an FE-expert but I do know they look exactly alike and
most everything external on them is common, so you would be able to get a
390 carb and other parts and they would fit fine. We have many FE-lovers
on this line so hopefully somebody can steer you but I think there is not
any external way to tell them apart.

I can't tell you how many times somebody has gotten on the list with what
they thought was a 390 and it turned out to be a 360 so you are not alone.
Wishful thinking on the previous owner's part, I guess...

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:58:26 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

>Tell us how you really feel!! Deep down I'll bet you're a whale lovin
>breast feeding, long haired hippy type, tree lovin, anti - Nuke, greenpeace
>- flower sellin Hare Krishna
>in hiding in the federal witness protection program kinda person....tell the
>truth!

Carefull now! I resemble part of that remark! (-:

Steve "Fordtruck-lovin, tree-lovin,
breast feeding, long haired hippy type" Delanty

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:31:45 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:40:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> The 1800lb limit wasn't because the truck couldn't take more, it
> was just all the free firewood I could get. (-:

Yeah, wasn't thinking :-) 1800# is about 2/3 cord as I recall and
that's about all you can load on with 18" racks, again as I recall.
We used to use my brother's truck to sell fire wood. We'd haul 2/3
cord or two 16" face cords at a time and it filled it right up.
Seems like a cord of wood runs a bit over a ton but I'm a bit rusty
on that now.

Used to go out and haul 16' logs home with my 62, F-600 flat bed and
cut them up. One night I split two loads of red elm by hand. Only
the insiders can possibly know how much work that was :-) One time
we got some very well cured hickory...........don't even ask :-)



78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:38:35 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> From: "David Butts"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:20:10 -0400

> Could a couple of inches be gained by putting 350 springs on a 150?
>
> 79 Bronco to be specific.

I picked up over an inch just in the thickness of the springs I added
to mine. Each leaf is about 3/8" thick or so.


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:53:52 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:40:29 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> Well, I'd concede that a good experianced engine builder knows the
> little things to look for and the tricks of the trade, and has the
> *potential* to do a better job. But they don't always...

> but why not do a relatively stock rebuild on a
> 300/6 Yourself? You send the block, heads and crank off to the
> machine shop for whatever machine work You need on them anyway.
> When they come back it's mostly a matter of cleaning everything,

Ok, maybe I was being a mother hen. It can be done if one takes his
time and gets the right books etc. AND you find a shop that will work
with you and help you make the right choices on parts and clearances
etc. and that will actually machine the right clearances into it.

I honed my own cylinders and was very fussy about both size, taper
and cross hatching but I broke a lot of stones since it was my first
attempt and I kept getting into the main webs. The trick is to find
a shop that people brag about. It's still scary to me to let anyone
else do my work for me.........I'm a grinder hand, how do you train a
high school kid in a few weeks to grind cranks that run true and are
round and taper free with the right radius in the sides of the
journals and make any money......?

If you don't know some of this stuff how can you check their work?
It all comes down to trust. Until you can do it all for yourself you
have to trust someone else to get it right and you just showed us
it's not predictable. .020 over in a .040 over hole?? That had to
sound like a diesel :-(

CLEAN is the magic word just like with auto trannys. You need a
clean area that can be kept clean with a minimum of effort. If you
have that and lots of patience and desire, go for it :-) (is this a
retraction? :-))

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:02:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

> Deep down I'll bet you're a whale lovin
>>breast feeding, long haired hippy type, tree lovin, anti - Nuke, greenpeace
>>- flower sellin Hare Krishna
>>in hiding in the federal witness protection program kinda person....tell the
>>truth!
>
> Carefull now! I resemble part of that remark! (-:
>



which part do you resemble? I think I just have hair envy.......I'm Bald
as an eagle!
I knew the hippy part would get something stirred up.......I hate it when I
do that!
Reckon I should just get a whig!

> Steve "Fordtruck-lovin, tree-lovin,
> breast feeding, long haired hippy type" Delanty

Stu
Nuke GM!

visit my "no haired homepage" at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www/pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:01:32 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - targets and rebuilds

Yep, I'm a big target, front or back. If you decide to shoot me, don't make
the mistake of trying to wound me. I won't make the same mistake.

I got to thinking (dangerous as a rule). I didn't go to school to learn
about cars, but I had an uncle who was in the business as a mechanic and he
was a great tutor and resource when I got stuck and he had every kind of
shop manual you could imagine. Unfortunately, I realized the value of those
books way too late and they are long gone, except for the two I never
returned. He also introduced me to my wife, but I forgave him for that. :-)
If there was a good "How to" book, I don't think I would be afraid to
tackle a rebuild with you guys and gals as a resource as long as I had
plenty of time.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:55:41 +0000
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....

Bear wrote:
>
> I have a 351 M and I am trying to figure out whether it is a big block or if
> it is a small block. I also want to know about the other 351's (i.e.
> Windsor, Cleveland) Big? Small? And also: How do you tell the difference?
> (So that I don't have to ask again).
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Shane
>
> E-mail : bear269 sparc.isl.net
> Please view my home page at:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.isl.net/~bear269/home
>
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> =======================================================================

Where did the 352 come from?
Just curious
Chris
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:37:03 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - The legend and amen.

The legend...

Praises be unto the list makers,
who hath created this place,
Long may they run.

For low in the beginning there was the net.
And it was dark, and Ford Truckers wandered in the Cyberness.
The great Ken came upon the Internet and said: "I shall create a place for
the people.
and Fords shall rule."
Then it was so...
and unto the lists like great and Noble Horses they came out of the
Cyberness.
They collected unto the lists and their knowledge grew and the lists
breathed and began to become greater then the Ken conceived.
And the Ken guided the lists and Henry's children knew that it is good.
Yet still the lists grew still and the Peggy joined the Ken and it was good.
And there were troubles, and some left, and others joined, and the Deacon
returned.
There became a family of listers, and opinions were stated.
and in the family there was tolerance for all who based on fact, and
education
and care for the innocent.
And the servers staggered in the volume of the bytez. The servers changed
and the masters of the list carried the weight with never a falter, and
still the list breathed.
There were honors paid unto the list masters, so much deserved.
And the list grew out of the net, and out of the Cyber, and the world
trembled under the power of the Fords and Henry's children gathered at the
Forge and there was a bond.
The Chevrolet trembled as they witnessed the power, for they new they had
seen their fate, and they hid their small blocks and were ashamed for their
impudence and ignorance.
Thus it was in the beginning my children and so it remains...

Praises be unto the list makers,
who hath created this place,....


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