61-79-list-digest Wednesday, May 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 269



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs
FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
FTE 61-79 - Rope Seal
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft
FTE 61-79 - heads off
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....
Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
FTE 61-79 - RE: Interval Wipers
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
FTE 61-79 - driveshaft
re: FTE 61-79 - 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT
Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems
Re: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:41:08 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Steve & Rockette
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - F100 Rear springs

> A buddy at work asked (axed??) me today if I could find out if he
> could put F350 rear springs on his F100, he wants to use it to haul
> his camper, it does have a Dana 60 in it now, with a cheesy helper
> spring. What do you guys think??

Length and width are the only things stopping him. If the length is
within a couple of inches and the width is the same as original then
it's a no brainer. If he's really serious and the specs don't match
up right then he can go to a spring shop for a few bucks and get
extra leafs and new "U" bolts put on. I just threw some extra
leafs in my F-150 from a 75 van but used the original main leaf and
most of the original leaves as well. I already had some longer "U"
bolts and the through bolt is just a long bolt but probably should be
grade 5 or 8 to be correct.

Last load I hauled was 2.38 tons and it wasn't bottomed out or even
close but the poor tires really took a beating :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:43:45 -0500
From: Mike Warren
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?

Anybody have any idea what type of emergency brake system is on a 1966
F100 - I had assumed it was a pedal, however people are mentioning it
might be a pull lever. - Also, where is it located? - I had been looking
for the pedal which is not there - where would the pull handle be?

Thanks
Mike
66 F100 Custom Cab - Short Bed
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:48:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

>OK guys and gals, let's get two things straight, then you can throw me off
>the list if you like.
NOPE! Your staying!
I am only 5'11 215, I am scared of big guys! :)

> 1.) I'm 6'2" and tip the scales at near 200. I've had small cars, I've had
>Japanese and German cars. I hate 'em and I'm not driving them. I've had
>front wheel drive and I don't care for it either. I drive big, old cars and
>trucks because I like them, I can afford the gas, I don't have a payment
>and I'm sick of the scum sucking greenie socialists that want to outlaw
>anything that is remotely fun. Freon 12 doesn't eat the ozone. Dupont's
>patent expired and anyone can make it now. Almost everyone does except in
>the US. The Freon black market from Mexico is bigger than cocaine.
>2.) I've lived long enough to know that when I can't legally own guns
>anymore, then I'll own them illegally. But you will never read about my
>final stand off with the "law" because when that time comes you will only
>be reading what the government wants you to read. That's not living in my
>book.
>
>This tirade is not directed at any individual. I absolutely totally
>rerspect your right to disagree with me. This list has become an addiction.
>I couldn't stand to read the entire anti-SUV site. Consumer Ripoffs is the
>last organization that I would trust with testing results. They are a major
>contributor to the decline in American goods being produced in America. If
>you tell people that something is bad, eventually they will believe it
>whether it is true or not. It's real funny to me how Americans can't make a
>decent product (in their opinion), but they can spring for the bucks to buy
>their inaccurate crummy research.
>
>BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell us how you really feel!! Deep down I'll bet you're a whale lovin
breast feeding, long haired hippy type, tree lovin, anti - Nuke, greenpeace
- - flower sellin Hare Krishna
in hiding in the federal witness protection program kinda person....tell the
truth!

Seriously JOHN!! AMEN and preach on brother! I am with you 110%. Ford Iron
rules! Nuke GM!

Deacon, Here's you open shot, I want to hear it!
Sorry, I couldn't resist all this!

STU
;^) I love to hear a good vent I agree with!

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:09:03 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rope Seal

>> Can the rope seal be replaced with a neoprene (or whatever is used
>> these days) without any other changes? Rob '71 F100, 360 4Spd
>
>I believe they can but I can't remember ever doing it so not sure. A
>quick call to the parts store can probably verify this?
>
It would have to be a special seal made for a rope replacement because a
plain rubber seal has a notch in it around the circumference which fits
onto a ridge in the seal groove in the block/bearing cap. A rope seal just
has a big groove. Without that ridge, I would think the rubber seal would
tend to rotate with the crank.

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:09:27 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
> From: CLARE WATERMAN
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - engine buying ??'s

> when buying a used engine, what are some things to look for?
>
> its a 390 out of the car and has the heads pulled off- should i be
> able to see cracks w/o mangaflux?

This is a tough one because many cracks will absolutely not show up
till you expose the cast iron to a strong magnetic field at which
point the opposing sides of the crack "apparently" oppose each other
so the crack widens enough to be seen. I've seen this happen on
several sets of heads.

Give us some back ground so we know how to direct the thread for you?
Are you mechanically knowledgeable yourself? Do you plan to do most
of the work yourself? How much do you want to invest in the project?
How much time do you have to apply to this project?

If you want something to bolt in then an engine which is apart is not
a good choice. If it's been sitting outside and is apart I'd stay
away from it (unless you know it's recently been opened up) because
the crank and other parts are probably pitted by now. If it's intact
then look for lots of grease etc. as an indication of it's age etc..
Is it from a wreck or just old? If it's been hit hard from either
end the crank could be cracked from the impact. I've heard of front
stubs falling right off due to this.

If the heads are off and you want this for a rebuild project look at
the combustion chambers for signs of rust or carbon build up which is
not present in other cylinders, IOW for differences in condition of
each which might indicate a cracked head (water leak) or excessively
burned valve and also the edges of the valves for burning and the
seats for recessing into the head due to low lead gas etc.. Look at
the valve stems for crusting of material which might indicate severe
oil leakage or even blow by past the guides etc..

Except for cracks all these things can be overcome with enough cash
but it's nice to find one that doesn't need everything replaced :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:05:37 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

From: Gary,
>Deacon, what's that old saying? "Great minds......" :-) I just
>basically told him the same thing :-) That's how I started :-)

The value of experience is in direct proportion to the cost of
mistakes made learning. :) Your right about taking a class and finding
the right way of doing it. I'm a certified aircraft mechanic and had to
study both turbine and piston engines for my cert. At times I forget
it's not all just second nature to me. I actually went to school for a
few years to learn how to bust my knuckles and leak as much blood as a
hockey player. It took many more years to forget what I learned in
school so I could do the job right. :)
It's not easy, it's not cheap and their are few shortcuts doing it
yourself. But the rewards are great! I remember the first bike I built.
It started on the first kick. I was screaming at the top of my lungs and
everyone came running out of their houses thinking I was hurt.
If anyone would like to see the turbofan engines I worked on, I put
some pictures up at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/eng/ for a friend.
The engine pictures are named e1a.jpg, the e1b.jpg are the spec's (that
didn't come out very well). None of the people in the photos are me.
They don't put people that look like me in company pictures. :)

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:15:43 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:33:01 -0600 (CST)
> From: Stu Varner
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

> also when i was under the truck i found out where my gas mileage is
> >going .RIGHT ON THE GROUND . hole in the tank . i bought >this
> stuff called MAGNUM STEEL it is to patch >gas tanks .ever heard of
> it ? hope it works .

I'd highly recommend a poly vinyl or poly propolyne tank. They don't
rust and are thick enough to take a whack once in a while and chafing
won't eat through them as easily as steel.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:17:32 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - heads off

>From: CLARE WATERMAN
>its a 390 out of the car and has the heads pulled off- should i be
able
>to see cracks w/o mangaflux?

I agree with Deacon. Why take a good engine apart? The best way to buy a
used engine is to hear it run and see the dirt. If that isn't possible, you
need to be able to inspect the exhaust, the oil, and the coolant. If you
can't see any of these, you may be buying more trouble than you have
already. Any vehicle that has been sitting is doing so for a reason.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:22:45 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....

> From: "Bill Beyer"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:04:53 -0700

> Is a 351M a big block or a small block?
> IMHO you can call it a big small block but I think most would put it
> in the small block category. For more info check out this web site:

I believe it's considered a small block but in racing sometimes there
is some controversy over this because it has the big block tranny
flange. What actually makes it a small block is the bore spacing
which allows it to use the same heads as the other small blocks with
a little modification of water openings etc..

It has a higher deck height than the 302 but so does the 351W and
it's still a small block. I've never heard it referred to as a big
block in any catalogs or other commercial print so assume the bore
spacing is the big differentiator.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:41:27 -0500
From: "Don Yerhot"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 family....

One sure way to tell the Windsor small blocks from the
Cleveland's/Modifieds is the location of the thermostat housing. On the
Windsor's it will be attached to the front of the intake manifold, while
on the Cleveland's it's bolted to the front of the block.

Don
65 F250, 351w totally rebuilt by yours truly!


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:33:38 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

From: John LaGrone
>This tirade is not directed at any individual. I absolutely totally
>rerspect your right to disagree with me.

Well then piss on you John. Your violating my right to disagree with
you if you don't say something I disagree with! If you can't say
something ignorant then don't say anything at all! :)

Amen brother!

S&W made us = and 6'2" 200lbs is a lot of back for a target. There's
brave and there's dead. The graveyards are full of brave men. I don't
know why I added this, just a militant thing to say I guess. :)

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:53:04 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Interval Wipers

Guys, Guys,
I have to jump in here. Check the article again. It is for 73-79
pickups. I believe the switch is different for 67-72s. I don't know if
this procedure will work for 67-72 models. However what you can do is
check your present switch and see if the connections to the switch are
the same on the 67-72 as the 73-79s. If they are then the procedure
will probably work. If this is the case then let me know and I'll
update the procedure.

Steve, thanks for the good word. ;0).

Tom H

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------------------

Yes, one of the tech articles on the Fordtrucks page. It's a nicely
written
article by Tom Hogan.
I'm gonna try it on my '71 as soon as I can score one at the wreckers.
If the mud there ever recedes this year...

==================================================

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:56:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> From: "Deacon"
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:05:37 -0700

> mistakes made learning. :) Your right about taking a class and
> finding the right way of doing it. I'm a certified aircraft mechanic
> and had to study both turbine and piston engines for my cert. At
> times I forget it's not all just second nature to me. I actually
> went to school for a few years to learn how to bust my knuckles

I was class honor graduate in the service on Chinooks but we never
delved into the engine except in theory. They use civilians for the
good stuff. We mostly changed filters and oil and kept things in
good shape but it was a replace rather than repair type of deal for
us.

I've always been interested in mechanical things, fascinated by them
really so it was pretty natural for me to get into building my own
engines I guess. My first attempt was at the tender age of 15 with
no supervision and basically no knowledge either so I got the
bearings too tight and used a 3' cheater bar on the rod bolts because
I didn't want them to vibrate out and throw a rod.............
needless to say the engine wouldn't even turn over :-) I eventually
found a happy medium and with shims UNDER the bearings to tighten
them up and a new clutch (we burned the other one up trying to turn
the engine over) I managed to get another 6 months of use out of her
before she threw the fatal rod.........

Then someone told me about piston clearance and cam grinding and
wrist pin clearance (0.0002" tolarance on 0.0002 clearance as I
recall) and piston slap and crank journal radius and big end side
play and......and.......then I took a class and learned even more.

I very highly recommend to anyone contemplating building his or her
own engine to take a class at the local CC and take your core engine
with you. You'll have a ball and learn how to do it right and come
home with a rebuilt engine and referance material you can't get
anywhere else. There will almost always be someone in the class that
knows almost as much as the instructor but just wants to get the
latest or newest techniques etc. which benifits the class as a whole
if he's the least bit friendly and a sharing kind of guy (I got an A
for that and found out I didn't know as much as I thought :-)) My
teacher took me aside after the class was over and thanked me for all
my help but all it was doing was sharing and having a ball.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:12:29 -0400
From: FORD-TRUCK-70 webtv.net (RANDY D)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

thanks guys i now have the driveshaft problem fixed . Now the gas tank
is another story . Not just 1 leak but 3 . 2 on over top of the tail
pipe
that i can get to . but 1 is under the strap that holds it on :-( So it
look like i am going gas tank hunting any good ideas . I priced a new
tank at the local parts shop $119.00 any one know the price of a
polyurthene tank . thanks agian for the help

RANDY
1970
F100
SWB 2WD
351w
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Date: Wed, 13 May 98 11:55:00 -0400
From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
Subject: re: FTE 61-79 - 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT

The guy I bought it off of said it was stock, and had the engine
rebuild in 89 and said it was a 390. And I had to by a new carb for it and
a couple of other things like the starter and water temp do hickey, and
every part I got was for a 390 and fit fine. Is there any way to tell on
the external part of the engine? Any info is appreciated. Thanks in
advance. Tony
- -------------
Original Text
From "John Strauss" , on 5/13/98 8:59 AM:
To: SMTP3 SMTP3 MCB LEJEUNE["Ford Trucks List"
]

>What came stock with a 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT I have a two
>brl carb. the couple of books I have access to just tell me what was
>available not what was standard in it. The VIN# is F10YKU65503. Thanks in
>advance for any info. Semper Fi to all the Devil Dogs out there (present
>and former). Tony
>
If you are just wanting your VIN decoded it is:

F10= F-100 2wd
Y=360-2v V8
K=Assembled at Kansas City Truck Plant
U65503=Consecutive serial number

I would need the trans code off the plate for your tranny, it is not part
of the VIN. Are you sure this is a 390? The 360 looks just like it and is
much more common in these trucks.

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:55:27 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

From: Stu Varner
>I am only 5'11 215, I am scared of big guys! :)

Cheeses Stu. What's big to you? :)

>Tell us how you really feel!! Deep down I'll bet you're a whale lovin
>breast feeding, long haired hippy type, tree lovin, anti - Nuke,
greenpeace
>- flower sellin Hare Krishna
>in hiding in the federal witness protection program kinda
person....tell the
>truth!

Long haired hippie type? Excuse me but us long haired hippie types
are into freedom not control.

>Deacon, Here's you open shot, I want to hear it!

Don't get me in on your name calling. I don't care how big he is. He's
armed and looking for you! :) I will agree strongly with, shooting
people is a crime, owning a gun is a right! It scared the crap out of me
when OJ used a knife. I figured we would have to give up steak! :)

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:20:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Charging systems

At 09:55 AM 5/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>From: Stu Varner
>>I am only 5'11 215, I am scared of big guys! :)
>
>Cheeses Stu. What's big to you? :)

6' 6" 335 But I ain't scared of em, i know I am faster than they are!
>
>>Tell us how you really feel!! Deep down I'll bet you're a whale lovin
>>breast feeding, long haired hippy type, tree lovin, anti - Nuke,
>greenpeace
>>- flower sellin Hare Krishna
>>in hiding in the federal witness protection program kinda
>person....tell the
>>truth!
>
> Long haired hippie type? Excuse me but us long haired hippie types
>are into freedom not control.

Easy Baby Doll! Long haired hippy types (excerpt from a 60's
movie......think think think, what was the name of it? It sounded good when
I was typing it! :))

>Don't get me in on your name calling. I don't care how big he is. He's
>armed and looking for you!

There goes my love of the 2nd amendment.....I really do love guns as much
as trucks!

:) I will agree strongly with, shooting
>people is a crime, owning a gun is a right! It scared the crap out of me
>when OJ used a knife. I figured we would have to give up steak! :)

My dentures can't handle chewin steak with no knife! I banned chest freezers
when Jeffrey Dahmer got caught and showed up in prison. Didn't want anyone
getting the wrong idea about me! I use an upright now to keep my steak er
um, what am i saying.......teachers can't afford steak! I mean ground beef in.

I guess the bottom line is, I am jealous of long haired hippy types.......,
I have lost most every hair on my head due to male pattern baldness....been
that way since I was 17.
:^(

Stu
Nuke GM!
visit my homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:26:35 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?

The pull handle for your E brake is under the dash on your left. Should
ne a black tee handle that says brake on it...



>From: Mike Warren
>To: "'61-79-list ford-trucks.com'"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1966 Emergency Brake - Pull Lever or Pedal?
>Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:43:45 -0500
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>
>Anybody have any idea what type of emergency brake system is on a 1966
>F100 - I had assumed it was a pedal, however people are mentioning it
>might be a pull lever. - Also, where is it located? - I had been
looking
>for the pedal which is not there - where would the pull handle be?
>
>Thanks
>Mike
>66 F100 Custom Cab - Short Bed
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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