61-79-list-digest Tuesday, May 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 266



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
Re: FTE 61-79 - My front leaf springs
FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
Re: FTE 61-79 - INFO ON MODS
FTE 61-79 - Re: NOS bedside??
Re: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag
Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint
FTE 61-79 - Re: Terms
FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: NOS bedside??
Re: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint
Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
Re: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint
Re: FTE 61-79 - INFO ON MODS
Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

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Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:58:19 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal

> From: "Erik Marquez"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:49:48 -0800

> grab with a pliers, rope insert a small sheet metal screw into the

Be very carefull not to scratch the crank with the screw, this is
what makes this technique so dangerous. The tinyest scratch with
eat a seal in a very short time..........:-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:03:28 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - My front leaf springs

> From: "Kevin"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - My front leaf springs
> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:34:40 -0000

> My front leaf springs on my 64 Ford have just about seen there last
> bounce. Any advice on what to do? I don't want to go through the
> trouble of independent front suspension. Is there any late model
> vehicle I can use the springs off of?

To just reiterate some other opinions, go to a reputable spring shop
and have them make them up for you. You can expect to pay between
$250 and $350 for a set depending on the shop and how much of the
original spring they can salvage. I paid $281 for new bolts, pins,
bushings and replacement leafs but the mains were still usable. If
you need the mains that would have been $100 more they said.

I drove it in and came back in a few hours and drove it out without
even getting my hands dirty :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:06:01 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

Some of you guys that have reservations, please forward to me via
privete E-Mail the locations you are staying and rates in round
figures, please. The Boss has given in to take off Friday noon and
come up for the festivities Sat and return Sun. Telephone #'s would
be a plus.
I'd like to meet every one of you.
Azie
Ardmore, Al E-mail: AM14 Chrysler.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:08:13 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - INFO ON MODS

> Date: Sun, 10 May 98 23:33:24 -0400
> From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - INFO ON MODS

> >I have a 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB with a 71 390 stock cam, 2 brl
> >carb,
>
> >AT, and rearend. When I rebuild her soon I want to have more
> >bottom end. Right now it takes a week to get to 40mph but from 40

If you are lucky enough to have the C-6 in there you can get the wide
ratio gear set which makes all the difference in the world at the
bottom and leaves the top alone. About $650 from SVO.

I run 2.75 gears with a 460 and have to be carefull not to step on
the gas very hard at all or it just burns the tires off.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:09:28 EDT
From: FORDTRKNUT
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: NOS bedside??

Someone told me about a place in Hemmings Motor News that had a NOS bedside
for sale. It is for my 1979 F-350 4x4 with an 8 foot bed & passenger side
tool box. HELP...I bought a perfect bed in Arizona and it has a liitle damage
on the passenger side!!! I need the bedside just incase its easier to
replace the side. Please....whoever sent me the address, check your older
Hemmings for the number!!!! Thanks Alot!!!! Wayne Grabley
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:18:47 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag

> From: Mike Warren
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint
> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 08:26:52 -0500

> I reexamined the Rag Joint, on my steering colomn, and appears to be
> OK, the bolts (not the pins) are still in good shape, so the pins
> are not actually being used (however it appears that they were used
> before- and are pretty worn). What else could be causing the loose
> steering?

I assume this it 2wd so would have king pins? If the pins were nice
and free like new even loose steering in the wheel or gear box
wouldn't pose much of a problem but if they are dried out and gummed
up it prevents the steering linkage from tracking and then the
steering appears to be much worse than it really is because you have
to move the wheel more to force a change and more often since it
can't return to center by itself.

Check the tie rod ends and steering box free play but take a good
look at those king pins too :-) How does it actually handle at
speed? If you constantly have to move the steering wheel to keep it
on the road I bet the king pins are bound up.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:31:32 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE

Man, I wish you wouldn't post the URLs to sites like that! They just p*ss
me right off! What a bunch of self -righteous morons! I believe in
everyone's right to free speech but these types of people really make me
want to push the envelope on justifiable homicide laws. These are the same
anti-gun crusaders that can't quite figure out that you can't outlaw
everything that might potentially cause harm to some living creature. At
some point you have to point the finger at the primary cause of
accidents...people. Other than that I don't feel strongly about the issue.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to strap on my gun, hop in my giant baby
killer Ford truck and go run over some Hyundai's on my way to the gas
station to fill up with more global warming hydrocarbons so I can drive
down to the sporting goods store and buy more ammo.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 8:56 AM
>
> You should see this site: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.howard.net/ban-suvs.htm
>
> These guys are obviousely just jealous. I got my first "big" truck
> (75 ford van) when I couldn't see around or over traffic,
> inconsiderate traffic that is, cars, not trucks. I've noticed most
> truckers know they are bigger and stay back so cars CAN see around
> them since the truckers can see OVER the cars they don't need to be
> right up on the line.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:31:30 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint

Hey Mike,

The best test is to have someone sit in the truck while its parked and turn
the wheel from side to side while you look under the front end to see where
the slop is.....they will only have to move the steering wheel a few inches
each way in order for you to see what's happening under there. I used to run
this little test all the time and it would turn out to be a ball joint one
time, a loose track bar the next, and then maybe a loose bolt on the steering
box.....if you see that the slop is in the steering box after you've adjusted
it....well....lets get that far first....

You should be able to nail it down in about 5 minutes...

Good luck,

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:31:52 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Terms

>Pardon my ignorance, but what do the letters "FE" and "FT" stand for? I
>know the standard (consumer grade) engine found in most cars and light
>trucks in that engine family (i.e 332,352,360,390,406,427,428,330?) is
>designated "FE"

The FE stands for Ford/Edsel as this was the intended target for the lions
share of the market of these engines in 1958. The FE wasn't introduced in
trucks until 1965, when they replaced the venerable 292 Y-block. The FT
stands for Ford Truck and was used in the 500 series up. I'm not sure of the
introduction date. The FT block is didtinguished by a mirror-image 105 cast
where the 352 normally is in front under the drivers side head. They also
have a hole drilled for an external oil cooler. They came as a 361, and 391
with a steel crank and sturdier rods. They made a lot of power for the
application, but usually only lasted 30k to 50k miles under hard use, this
was fairly average for a gas burner in a heavy truck, about middle of the pack.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:40:29 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

Group:

My brain has been churning over the idea of restoring a tired old '78 300
I-6 to original performance (as close as possible) with a possible
intake/exhaust system from Clifford Perform. down the road (when I'm rich
and famous, all right, far down the road).


I would beg the group's opinions on having the engine rebuilt by a shop or
just purchasing an engine (Jasper or Marshall seem popular sources in
Cleveland, OH) and bolting on all the remaining items. I would like to do
the job myself as much as possible, but just don't have the experience nor
the peers to assist me with rebuilding it myself. One way better than the
other? Anyone have any opinions of pre-built engine suppliers?

I would appreciate anyones ideas before I make poor decision and regret my
ignorance (again)!

John
bauerjf ix.netcom.com


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:43:40 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: NOS bedside??

FORDTRKNUT wrote:

> Someone told me about a place in Hemmings Motor News that had a NOS bedside
> for sale. It is for my 1979 F-350 4x4 with an 8 foot bed & passenger side
> tool box. HELP...I bought a perfect bed in Arizona and it has a liitle damage
> on the passenger side!!! I need the bedside just incase its easier to
> replace the side. Please....whoever sent me the address, check your older
> Hemmings for the number!!!! Thanks Alot!!!! Wayne Grabley
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Wayne: that was probably me. i saw a nos side piece and can't remember which
side but I will look in the next couple of days. I think it was the passenger
side so I will check for you.

Do you still have that schematic for the 1978 trucks. i remember you mentioning
selling awhile back.

Regards
John

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:44:39 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint

While we are on the subject of rag joints. Does anyone know if they are still
available. i need one for a 67 Mustang and have a feeling it's probably the same
as the one the F100 guys use.

Thanks
John

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:07:55 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE

>From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:56:35 +0000
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>
>> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:12:51 -0500
>> From: Bill Adams
>> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Some thoughts about the future of FTE
>
>> >For a logo to put on the hat you could put "FTN" or "FTN's" inside
>> >a blue oval and it would be pretty self explanitory. -- Gary --
>>
>> And what does FTN stand for in this context?
>
>Ford Truck Nut. I was trying to use something like "Galloots" but I
>think there's already a bunch calling themselves by that and I forgot
>we're already Ford Truck Enthusiasts which is a more high falutin way
>of saying the same dang thing really I guess.
>
>After looking at the "SUV" site on the web maybe we should call
>ourselves "The ordinary car owner's worst nightmare" or some such.
>Or Green Power enemy #1 or ROCOW (roll over champs of the world) or
>"mean, nasty big truck freak who won't let me see the traffic".
>
>You should see this site: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.howard.net/ban-suvs.htm
>
>These guys are obviousely just jealous. I got my first "big" truck
>(75 ford van) when I couldn't see around or over traffic,
>inconsiderate traffic that is, cars, not trucks. I've noticed most
>truckers know they are bigger and stay back so cars CAN see around
>them since the truckers can see OVER the cars they don't need to be
>right up on the line.
>
>One of the most obnoxious drivers I encountered drove a hopped up
>Ranger but refused to lower his head light adjustment to compensate
>for the lift. This wasn't a big truck just jacked up and the driver
>not only couldn't understand the principle of lowering his head
>lights, he seems to be oblivious to the fact that he was only 20'
>behind a very small car for 10 miles for no reason since there were
>many places he could have passed. I hope these cry babies never get
>so numerous as to cause laws to change against us. I don't mean lift
>laws but even stock vehicles being taxed etc.. :-(
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
>-- Gary --
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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>"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
>=======================================================================
>
I would have waited till no one was around and then slowed down till
the a hole passed me.


______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:32:46 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:40:29 -0400
> From: "John F. Bauer III"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

> I would beg the group's opinions on having the engine rebuilt by a
> shop or just purchasing an engine (Jasper or Marshall seem popular

The shop will make it how you want it but they tend to hire high
school kids to do some of the grunt work in the shop or inexperienced
ones at least so you may or may not get good machining work done.

A pro re-manufacturer OTOH has lots of practice doing all the steps
but they are on a time budget so may cut corners. Do you see the
delema? The factory rebuild will be the cheapest usually but uses
low budget parts most of the time so may not give you that 100k life
you'd like but if the "shop" makes mistakes you can wind up in the
same boat so it kind of depends on who you have in the area and what
reps they have as to which way to go beyond the budget thing.

The factory rebuild will be the quickest to get back on the road and
the cheapest over all probably. If you know a shop and like the
service and know the machinists then maybe the shop would be better
for you if you have a little more cash. They will generally help you
with the little details of assembly too if you ask them but again you
may be getting opinions of inexperineced individuals so be cautious.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:12:54 GMT
From: wayside cyberhighway.net (Rob Patelke)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal

On Tue, 12 May 1998 15:58:19 +0000, you wrote:

>> From: "Erik Marquez"
>> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
>> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:49:48 -0800
>
>> grab with a pliers, rope insert a small sheet metal screw into the
>
>Be very carefull not to scratch the crank with the screw, this is=20
>what makes this technique so dangerous. The tinyest scratch with=20
>eat a seal in a very short time..........:-(
>
Can the rope seal be replaced with a neoprene (or whatever is used these
days) without any other changes?
Rob
'71 F100, 360 4Spd "The Old One"
'78 F250, 4X4 400 C6 "The Brick"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:31:09 EDT
From: bobherring juno.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Steering Still Loose - Appears not to be the Rag Joint

>While we are on the subject of rag joints. Does anyone know if they
>are still available. i need one for a 67 Mustang and have a feeling
it's
>probably the same as the one the F100 guys use.
>
>Thanks
>John
>
I bought one for my '72 F100 at the local Parts Plus. It was less than
$10.
I don't know what the Ford equivilvant would be.

Bobby Herring
'64 F100 short-wide, was 292 Y-block/3speed, motor in pieces,
make me an offer
'72 F100 400/C6 in progress

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 98 19:09:21 -0400
From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - INFO ON MODS

What came stock with a 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390 AT I have a two
brl carb. the couple of books I have access to just tell me what was
available not what was standard in it. The VIN# is F10YKU65503. Thanks in
advance for any info. Semper Fi to all the Devil Dogs out there (present
and former). Tony
- -------------
Original Text
From "Gary, 78 BBB" , on 5/12/98 12:08 PM:
To: SMTP3 SMTP3 MCB LEJEUNE[]

> Date: Sun, 10 May 98 23:33:24 -0400
> From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - INFO ON MODS

> >I have a 74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB with a 71 390 stock cam, 2 brl
> >carb,
>
> >AT, and rearend. When I rebuild her soon I want to have more
> >bottom end. Right now it takes a week to get to 40mph but from 40

If you are lucky enough to have the C-6 in there you can get the wide
ratio gear set which makes all the difference in the world at the
bottom and leaves the top alone. About $650 from SVO.

I run 2.75 gears with a 460 and have to be carefull not to step on
the gas very hard at all or it just burns the tires off.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:12:28 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Need opinions on engine rebuild/replacement

>My brain has been churning over the idea of restoring a tired old '78 300
>I-6 to original performance (as close as possible) with a possible
>intake/exhaust system from Clifford Perform. down the road (when I'm rich
>and famous, all right, far down the road).

I'd love to hear from someone that has *used* the Clifford stuff.
My girlfriend has a 300/6 and I'm trying to talk her into getting
headers, mild cam, and clifford intake with a nice 450ishCFM carb for it...

>I would beg the group's opinions on having the engine rebuilt by a shop or
>just purchasing an engine (Jasper or Marshall seem popular sources in
>Cleveland, OH) and bolting on all the remaining items. I would like to do
>the job myself as much as possible, but just don't have the experience nor
>the peers to assist me with rebuilding it myself.

No opinions on shops, but if you *want* to do it, I'd suggest doing the
rebuild Yourself.. The 300/6 is a pretty easy rebuild and a great way
to get that experiance. Get a manual with the clearance and torque specs,
a good torque wrench, some plasti-gauge to check bearing clearances and
go at it! I think You've got most of the technical resources You'll need
with your "peers" here on the truck list to help you thru any tough spots
if they come up...
You'll end up taking the block and heads to the machine shop to do the
cylinder boring, valve job, etc, anyway and the rest is just assembly work
on Your part. (and a little measuring with feeler gauges and plasti-gauge)
And cleaning parts. Lots and lots of cleaning...
You can save enough money to pay for any tools and books you need, plus a
little left over to go towards the clifford stuff.
Almost any first-time engine builder who has a little patience and is
willing to ask some questions when they're not sure about something
can do as good a job as most proffesional shops. Probably better, cuz
You *really* care about how good a job gets done, and they usually just
care about getting paid and going home... You'll likely spend more time
making sure things are good and clean than they will, and cleanliness
is 2/3 of doing a good job.
Besides, it can be lots of fun and a great satisfaction to have done it
Yourself. I've rebuilt countless motors, and still get a thrill firing
up a fresh one I've rebuilt myself for the first time!
Ahhh, the smell of hot metal and burning paint...

Steve "why pay a shop big bux to clean my parts?" Delanty

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:25:49 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - driveshaft

From: RANDY D
>i have a 1978 f150 i am trying to take the driveshaft out to replace a
>ujoint it has a carrierbarring 2 piece shaft i am trying to take out
the
>section closest to the rearend does it screw apart ? if so left hand
>thread or right ? i can turn it but it does not seem to be coming off
>and i cant get the ujoint out until i get it off
>thanks for any help .

You have it bass ackwards. You need to disconnect the u joint before
you can pull the drive line. Remove the 2 bearing cap retainers held on
with 4 bolts from the rear end's yoke. Push the drive line forward (you
may need to pry the old bearing caps out) to release it from the yoke
then pull back to disengage the front. With the drive line out remove
the 2 bearing cap retainer clips. You will need to press out the 2
bearing caps. You can do this using a good strong C clamp or a vise, a
large socket for a retriever and a smaller one for a pusher.....


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