61-79-list-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 249



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers
Re: FTE 61-79 - Emergency Brake Light?
FTE 61-79 - differentials - lockers and torsens
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Enthusiasts Gathering?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers
FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!
RE: FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
FTE 61-79 - Info Requested: Early 60's F100
FTE 61-79 - Re: toploader
RE: FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!
Re: FTE 61-79 - AUCTION
FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts
FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers
Re: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts
RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts
RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts
RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:52:29 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

Hi Mike,

Isn't the Dana Power-Lok the limited slip setup (clutches)?

This is sounding better and better....I really don't need the big "bangs" from
time to time....I just wonder how often the clutches wear out....

Thanks everyone for all the input....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:56:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Emergency Brake Light?

At 08:27 AM 5/6/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm headed to the Forge!!!! Yes!!!! ;-)
>
>Now, to the question. I have a '68 Ranger, on the lower left side of the
>dash there
>is a light there. Was this light an emergency brake light? I've seen the
>same on
>a '67. I havn't looked at any other year models. I think I have the bezel
>for this
>light, but no lens. What is this thing, how does it go together and what
>color is
>the lens (I assume red). I hope to find this assembly at the Forge.
>
>Thanks,
>
> -Ted

Ted, that is a brake warning light. Tells when levels are low.


Stu
Nuke GM!
www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:16:56 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE 61-79 - differentials - lockers and torsens

i have had detroit lockers, open diffs, limited slip and torsen gleason
types. i hate open diffs, love the detroit locker and torsen. i have
never destoyed a locker, but all other types i have completely busted. (a
spool is my next step!)

for anyone considering a locker for a street truck - i had no problems on
the street. that occasional loud bang wasn't too bad, and i never heard
those little clicking noises unless the engine was off and i was coasting
or being pushed/pulled. i find that lockers are more consistant in snow,
and therefore easier to drive but an inexperienced driver would most likely
find difficulty staying on the road.

the torsen diff is now marketed under the name zexel-torsen. it is a gear
type with no clutches, but is not a true locker. it gives "soft"
engagement, and turns without noise, jerking, extra tire wear or any of the
"bad" traits of lockers and posi's. it is the best of all possible worlds.
it is designed to allow a certain amount of speed differentiation, but no
more. enough difference to turn, but if one wheel is in the air the
grounded wheel gets power. unlike a locker in this situation, the torsen
will allow the free wheel to turn a small amount faster than the tractive
wheel, but the difference on the trail is not noticeable, and on ice it is
not either.

i had the torsen in my dana 44 front for 2 yrs before i destroyed the
gears, carrier, bearing caps, etc.

i destoyed it from way to much power and hot doggin' it through mud & snow
over rough terrain. i abused it, but under normal or heavy duty service
with milder engines they will hold up no problem and they are the best you
can get IMHO.

other wise, the detroit locker is the only real good choice. ARB is big
$$$ for a product that is good, but i have my doubts about their
reliability after seeing the air system. some poeople have had problems
with the air supply, smashed airlines and such or a leak inside the
housing. but, it could be used to pressurize the housing for underwater
jaunts!!

and a warning for all owners, or potential locker owners - make sure the
rolling radius of the tires on the axle is the same. do not adjust to
equal pressure, adjust pressure to equal out the height of the top of the
rim on each side to be equal. this is pretty important for street use, but
on the trail it makes little difference.

sleddog



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Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:31:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Enthusiasts Gathering?

Let me know what you all think of this idea. After
>all the Jeep owners have their Jeep Jamboree. Why can't we have a
>gathering as well.

Ken,
I think in 20 years or less you will be saying/we all will be
saying, "what have we started!!" This is FTE in its earliest stages of
infancy! Let's bring in the union!
:) This group will do nothing but grow and become a major player in years
to come with
Ford trucks! I see it in my crystal ball. Thanks Ken, be a visionary! I
am honored and proud to be a part!

***** Someone made mention that parking in Pigeon Forge was at a
premium. Help me out here. Where is a good place to park and ride a
shuttle? I don't feel like hoofing it 14 miles from Dollywood.

Stu
Nuke GM
visit my homepafge at www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:42:11 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

> From: BDIJXS
> Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:52:29 EDT
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

> Isn't the Dana Power-Lok the limited slip setup (clutches)?
>
> This is sounding better and better....I really don't need the big
> "bangs" from time to time....I just wonder how often the clutches
> wear out....

The Trac Loc and Traction Loc are both clutch types and are
rebuildable. Not sure if the Power Loc is the same as the Trac Loc
or not but the Trac Loc is Dana and Traction Loc is ford. They say
they're good for about 50k miles. The Auburn is supposed to be good
for 100K miles but is not rebuildable. The OEM ford Traction Loc
with 4 spider gears is one of the strongest rear ends around but does
not fully lock except under very heavy loads and with some brake
applied.

If you are made of money the best all around traction device which
can be used front or rear or both for combination on and off road is
the Torsen gear type limited slip but the last quote I got for this
was $1300 just for the diff.

The one I like is the ARB but is expensive also and prone to little
nagging problems if you don't set it up right and with good materials
etc..

The True Trac is similar to the Torsen in that it's all gears and no
clutches but not as strong as the Torsen but much cheaper. Many put
this one up front and use a locker or Traction Loc in the rear. Some
have said they added some strength to it recently so it may be strong
enough for the rear now, not sure.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:38:02 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!

Ford Truck Enthusiasts has won the coveted Car Lounge #1
Automotive Site for the Summer of 98!

You can view the award (soon to be on our site) at:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://carlounge.com/popular.htm

Many sites were nominated and its really rewarding for
me to see that Ford Truck Enthusiasts is appreciated.

Thanks to everyone who nominated Ford Truck Enthusiasts.
The online community we have, with the atmosphere created
by our list members, is great and I want to thank all the
members.

Ken Payne (grinning from ear to ear),
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:24:30 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!

Ken and Peggy, you both have a right to be smiling, and with Pigeon
Forge right around the corner????
Make them all turn green with envy...:-)

-----Original Message-----
From:Ken Payne [SMTP:kpayne mindspring.com]
Sent:Wednesday, May 06, 1998 7:38 AM
To:pre61-list ford-trucks.com; 61-79-list ford-trucks.com;
80-96-list ford-trucks.com; 97up-list ford-trucks.com;
small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject:FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!

Ford Truck Enthusiasts has won the coveted Car Lounge #1
Automotive Site for the Summer of 98!

You can view the award (soon to be on our site) at:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://carlounge.com/popular.htm

Many sites were nominated and its really rewarding for
me to see that Ford Truck Enthusiasts is appreciated.

Thanks to everyone who nominated Ford Truck Enthusiasts.
The online community we have, with the atmosphere created
by our list members, is great and I want to thank all the
members.

Ken Payne (grinning from ear to ear),
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


= Ford Truck Enthusiasts
==============================================
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Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:26:07 -0700
From: "Michael Connor"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

Jeff,

Yes, it is.

Its a clutch-driven limited slip, but there are configurations of the
clutch
disks that let you modify them for a more tighter or looser feel.
The replacement clutch packs are available at any dealer who
carries Dana/Spicer parts, or places like Reider Racing. I've ran
them in my jeep for the last 7 years and like them a lot. The one
in the rear of the jeep was just replaced with a used Detroit that
I got for next to nothing. The clutches in the Power-Lok were showing
signs of wear, but this vehicle sees a LOT of off roading here in AZ.
$50 bucks for a new set of clutches and she's brand new again,
and I put it in the front of my Ford pickup. It already has a Power-
Lok in the rear.
The front Power-Lok in the jeep is still pretty tight after 7years-
I don't forsee going back into it anytime soon.

Another thing about the Power-Lok over the
factory Trac-Loc limited slip - the Power-Lok has a 4 gear
design riding against the side gears where the Trac-Lok only has 2.
Power-Lok distributes the stresses much better.

Here's a secret for the Power-Lok. If you're rebuilding one for a front axle
you can "shim" the clutches a little, say 15-30thousands with some
pinion shims or whatever, to tighten the Power-Lok up a bit. You can
actually
make them so tight they act like a spool.:-) You can also shim one for a
rear
axle, but the clutches will wear out a little quicker.

Now everyone is going to tell you the Detroit is the ultimate locker out
there,
and they're right for the most part. The Detroit IS the ultimate for
off-roading,
bar none. And, they're ok on the street, providing you can live with the
clang and bang. But, the Power-Lok is more livable on the street, and very
acceptable off road. Everything is a trade-off of some sort.:-) It just
depends on what your needs/wants are.
They're also right in that you can't hardly break a Detroit ( although I
have
seen them break in abusive conditions) but the strength of the Detroit will
cause the stress to move to the next weakest link, i.e. the driveline,
u-joints,
gears, etc. The Power-Lok has slippage in it by design, and when you get
in a bind or sticky situation they will give a little.

You have to decide for yourself what your needs are and what the purpose is
going
to be for the intended vehicle. I own both a Detroit and Power-Loks and
love them both, in there intended applications.

Hope this helps,

Mike
Phoenix, AZ.


>Hi Mike,
>
>Isn't the Dana Power-Lok the limited slip setup (clutches)?
>
>This is sounding better and better....I really don't need the big "bangs"
from
>time to time....I just wonder how often the clutches wear out....
>
>Thanks everyone for all the input....
>
>Colorado Jeff
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
>Send posts to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
>"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
>=======================================================================
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:07:11 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

From: Bill Ballinger

>I wont be able to make it to the show, I'm sorry to say. I was on
medical
>leave 12 weeks last year getting my eyeballs realigned (three
surgeries)and
>have to have a real good reason to be off. (anyone want to be my dying
>relative?)

If your havin' trouble with the eyes in your head
Their givin' you da blues
You wanna relative to die in 'is bed
Here's what you gotta do -
Pick up the phone
I'm always home
Call me any time
Just ring 362-436 [hey!]
I lead a life of crime

Dirty deeds done dirt cheap
Dirty deeds done dirt cheap [Hey!]
Dirty deeds done dirt cheap [Ooo!]
Dirty deeds done dirt cheap [Not free!]
Dirty deeds and they're done dirt cheap

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:20:04 -0700
From: Brian Foster
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Info Requested: Early 60's F100

I am looking at a truck that's in good shape to
restore enough to drive daily. A little guidance
on what I am looking at along with a pointer or
two to evaluating its worth would be appreciated
(the owner hasn't set a price). Here is what I
took down from the plate:

Serial#: F10AR847446
Other Data:115 J F100 581 C09
129 4000 71

Here is what I suspect/know so far:
F100 stepside
unknown model year
240 cu in? 6-cylinder (not running -- unknown
reason)
Manual 3-speed? od?
115 in wheelbase
4000 GVW => seriously _light_ duty truck
Mfgd in San Jose CA

There is no apparent rust or body damage. It's
been sitting for awhile, but the interior looks
good and clean. Everything seems to be intact
and no major or minor abuse. It is currently
white with a red interior. The engine bay is red
and I suspect the rest of the truck may have
been red initially.

Reply directly to roundel earthlink.net

Brian
Irvine CA
'76 F250 Ranger
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:21:08 -0500
From: "kingw"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: toploader

Mike,
Glad to see you have finally found a toploader
for your truck. You'll love it.
I assume you're running a three speed now?
If so, the toploader will bolt right onto your
bellhousing, but you might have to change your
clutch disk and perhaps your throwout bearing.
(toploaders generally have two sizes of input shafts).
More than likely you will have to have your driveshaft
shortened (I did). Try to get the driveshaft yoke from
the donor car as well (will save you from buying one if
the splines on your current driveshaft and the
toploader are different. My old 3 speed had a
bolt-on driveshaft yoke, so I had to buy a new one).
You can check out the numbers on your toploader
at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/tranny.html
I am happy to see that two list members thought that
$700 seems like a deal. I think you could do better,
but I also live in the rustbelt. Are you getting a shifter
with the tranny too (Hurst shifters run around $200)?
Please let the list know if you got a wide- or close-
ratio toploader, and how the swap goes.
Bill
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:55:14 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!

we've known it was the best all along!!!! good to see FTE is getting the
recognition it deserves!

sleddog

- ----------
From: Ken Payne[SMTP:kpayne mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 10:38 AM
To: pre61-list ford-trucks.com; 61-79-list ford-trucks.com;
80-96-list ford-trucks.com; 97up-list ford-trucks.com;
small-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - We Won! #1 Auto Site!

Ford Truck Enthusiasts has won the coveted Car Lounge #1
Automotive Site for the Summer of 98!




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Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:23:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - AUCTION

At 06:39 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Someone mentioned an auction site on the WWW where they were able to purchase
>shop manuals, etc. Since my computer crashed 4/98 I have lost all my "Favorite
>Places". Anyone know where I can find that site?


You can call Rob Clark in Ontario canada at 888-329-1951
I ordered a set for my 71 F-100. I just ordered them and have yet to get
them so I can't verify quality but he came very highly recomended!! I know
the check went through on the 4th of May.
60 US dollars to have them shipped to the house.

Stu
Nuke GM!

visit my homepage at www.pscico.com/stu



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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:29:26 -0700
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

What is the name of the post in the cab frame that the latch in the door
clamps to when the door is closed. The plastic bushing (yes there is a
plastic bushing there. Just look. Go ahead, I DARE you) has broken and
fallen off BOTH of my posts (Passenger and Driver). This means that the
diameter of that post is smaller and the door rattles just like it's not
closed all the way. How is this post secured? If I remove it is there
a nut inside the cab that I can't get to without a hot wrench? Are
these things available from the dealer anymore? Help!!!

Tom H.
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:34:09 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

Hey Gary,

I guess what I mean by "soft locker" is a unit that doesn't pop, ratchet, or
chirp the tires while turning on pavement. While looking into it, I've run
across a unit made by Powertrax called a "No Slip Differential". They
advertise that this unit eliminates the ratcheting in the turns, but still
"locks up"....I'll let you know more when I learn more....

Colorado Jeff

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Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:49:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

At 10:29 AM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>What is the name of the post in the cab frame that the latch in the door
>clamps to when the door is closed. The plastic bushing (yes there is a
>plastic bushing there. Just look. Go ahead, I DARE you)

Double Dog Dare me and I might!

has broken and
>fallen off BOTH of my posts (Passenger and Driver). This means that the
>diameter of that post is smaller and the door rattles just like it's not
>closed all the way. How is this post secured?

On my 71 there is a backing plate that is threaded. It slides into a little
pocket.
I took a pair of Channel locks and carefully removed my old posts.
I have no clue what you call them. Heck I don't know what you call much of
anything.
I suffer from a sever case of CRS syndrome!

If I remove it is there
>a nut inside the cab that I can't get to without a hot wrench?
Yeah Baby! No hot wrenches need!!! If you fuel tank is in the cab I dare
you to
take that off with a hot wrnech! Actually....please don't!
Then you have a KFB, NOT GOOD! The backing plate that is in the pocket acts
like a big flat NUT!

Are
>these things available from the dealer anymore? Help!!!

I am unsure where you can get them, the Obsolete OK parts catalog at work
here doesn't have them listed. I may have overlooked them. Go to a
boneyard and get em!
>

Stu
Nuke GM!

visit my homepage at www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:14:01 -0700
From: "Gillespie, John D."
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

Tom, For what year are you looking for? If I read your post correctly
you are looking for the striker post that screws into the door frame.
And according to Mac's Antique Auto parts http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.macsautoparts.com/
Catalog, page 185, the Fomoco part
number for the post is C7TZ-8122008-A. If I remember correctly the
mounting nut is welded into the frame. Ch*vy also used the same type of
post. You should be able to get them at NAPA.
John
66 F100 240-I6
82 LTD 302-AOD
94 Splash 4.0L (I hate liters)

What is the name of the post in the cab frame that the latch in
the door
clamps to when the door is closed. The plastic bushing (yes
there is a
plastic bushing there. Just look. Go ahead, I DARE you) has
broken and
fallen off BOTH of my posts (Passenger and Driver). This means
that the
diameter of that post is smaller and the door rattles just like
it's not
closed all the way. How is this post secured? If I remove it
is there
a nut inside the cab that I can't get to without a hot wrench?
Are
these things available from the dealer anymore? Help!!!

Tom H.

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Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:31:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

At 11:14 AM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Tom, For what year are you looking for? If I read your post correctly
>you are looking for the striker post that screws into the door frame.
>And according to Mac's Antique Auto parts http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.macsautoparts.com/
> Catalog, page 185, the Fomoco part
>number for the post is C7TZ-8122008-A. If I remember correctly the
>mounting nut is welded into the frame.

My 71 was not welded cause I removed them a few weeks ago for the cab body
work and paint. It just slid out of the pocket, left loose so you can
make adjustments to the post???? Other models may be welded. I dunno.
This is the first truck I have dismantled completely, They may have all been
hung over at the factory when they built my truck and forgot to weld them
in! I have heard of having a bad day on the job. I have found a bed stake
pocket that was never welded, been loose for 28 years!
:) Quality is job one!


Stu
Nuke GM!

visit my homepage at www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:24:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:31:31 -0600 (CST)
> From: Stu Varner
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Door latch posts

> >C7TZ-8122008-A. If I remember correctly the mounting nut is welded
> >into the frame.
>
> My 71 was not welded cause I removed them a few weeks ago for the

The striker is how you adjust the tighness of the closed door and
also compensate for the hinge adjustments to alighn the door with the
body work so it has to be adjustable. The ones I've seen are just as
....

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