61-79-list-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 246



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Parts and Information
Re: FTE 61-79 - Parts and Information
Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?
Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?
Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?
Re: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings
Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?
FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?
FTE 61-79 - 390 Rebuild
Re: FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?
FTE 61-79 - Hard starts
FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins
Re: FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins
FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings
FTE 61-79 - External Hubs
FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front
FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers
Re: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:31:24 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Parts and Information

OK I think I'm on the right list now. I want to add power steering and
power brakes to my 65 F100. I have leg muscle drum brake all around and
arm muscle steering. Need some info on what parts I can get from the
salvage yard and what I need to buy new. I know about new springs and
holders and that stuff for the brakes. What aout disc brakes. Can I
convert easily? I'm greatful for any help

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:37:54 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Parts and Information

Other questions I have. What year truck can I get these parts from.
Will I need a different steering arm. I know I will need the box and
booster. Dont have a mec helping me. I know alittle about what I'm
doing. Course if I dont I know where to get the help.

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:48:40 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?

At 01:28 PM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 05:23 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> did we ever get a list of who's going to the Nat's
>>
>> I am wondering who to look for?
>
>Ken Payne, list dad
>Clare Waterman-Storer (2)
>Keith Srb
>Ted Freeman and wife
>Barry Price and spouse
>Jon Purut and Chelley his bride
>John Miller and wife.....semper fi
>John and Peggy Niolon
>Dan and Marsha Herman...he claims to be the tallest and ugliest there.
>Charles and his F-250...no last name?
>Colorado Jeff
>Kristen marcellus all the way from canada
>Gary Bowling
>Yours truely.....Stu varner
>
>Feel free to add your name to the list so we can figure it all out by the
15th!!
>Enjoy and I look forward to seeing everyone there!
>

I think we need to set a time and place for everyone to meet
on Saturday. There is a very practical reason for this:

Pat, the promoter, is giving us booth space as a club,
for free. We show up Thursday morning and he gives us
space with all the other clubs. However, he reserved
to the right to refuse us space, "if we aren't good for
the sport."

Before anyone gets upset about this... Pat has been
taken advantage of in the past and he wants to make
sure we're for real. So, in the unlikely event that we
don't get a booth, we need to be able to get together.
It would be a shame if we didn't get to meet each other.

At the booth, I plan to have some brochures I've made
on the computer. Also, our window stickers and screen
shots from the web site.

Ken


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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 13:08:33 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?

At 03:48 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I think we need to set a time and place for everyone to meet
>on Saturday. There is a very practical reason for this:
>

I have never been to Pigeon Forge before, so I will leave it up to the
people that have been there before. So just let me know where, when and
how to get to this meeting place and I will see you there! :) :) :)


Keith Srbherbie netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box,
Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air
Cleaner,
Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"
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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:05:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?

>>Ken Payne, list dad
>>Clare Waterman-Storer (2)
>>Keith Srb
>>Ted Freeman and wife
>>Barry Price and spouse
>>Jon Purut and Chelley his bride
>>John Miller and wife.....semper fi
>>John and Peggy Niolon
>>Dan and Marsha Herman...he claims to be the tallest and ugliest there.
>>Charles and his F-250...no last name?
>>Colorado Jeff
>>Kristen marcellus all the way from canada
>>Gary Bowling
>>Yours truely.....Stu varner

Add Stoney and his better half to the list too!


>I think we need to set a time and place for everyone to meet
>on Saturday. There is a very practical reason for this:

Say the word, thunderbird and I will be there.
Just to make a good impression on Pat, I will not wear my GM S*&#S shirt. OK?!
Deacon needs to stay home especially if we are trying to make nice with the
promoter.
:) smile Deacon!
(Actually I would like to meet him [Jim Strig that is] face to face, I am
sure I'd be
honored to make his acquaitence!!)


>
>Pat, the promoter, is giving us booth space as a club,
>for free. We show up Thursday morning and he gives us
>space with all the other clubs. However, he reserved
>to the right to refuse us space, "if we aren't good for
>the sport."

Better than he realizes!!

>
>Before anyone gets upset about this... Pat has been
>taken advantage of in the past and he wants to make
>sure we're for real. So, in the unlikely event that we
>don't get a booth, we need to be able to get together.
>It would be a shame if we didn't get to meet each other.
>
>At the booth, I plan to have some brochures I've made
>on the computer. Also, our window stickers and screen
>shots from the web site.
>
>Ken

Pat must not be computer literate yet??
Buy that boy a computer and sign him up on FTE!
He'll be in F-100 heaven!

Stu
Nuke GM!

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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:04:36 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings

> From: craig001 mc.duke.edu
> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:33 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings

> If I remove the top cover, would this be a good time to change
> the gear oil (assuming there is any in there)? Any suggestions
> on oil type/weight?

My research leads me to believe a good quality synthetic is the way
to go both for better wear and better performance. I'm going to try
Amsoil next time but there are several other good ones out there
somewhat cheaper. Use the 85-95 high pressure gear lube.

> AS69-T18 and C9T3 N-1

Looks like it a BW T-18 which is similar to the NP 435 with a granny
low gear.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:10:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?

> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:48:40 -0400
> From: Ken Payne
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?

> I think we need to set a time and place for everyone to meet
> on Saturday. There is a very practical reason for this:

Wish I could be there :-( All my projects are going to get in the
way and I haven't reserved a room so it's pretty much not going to
happen but I wish you all a safe and happy first get together. I'll
be thinking of y'all with a little tear in my eye............:-(

(I really don't think my wife could handle the trip and I don't want
to go by myself and leave her home)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:25:06 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?

Sometimes on this list we see arguments about whether or not there ever was
a C-4 auto trans fitted to a big block (i.e. FE or 385) engine. Well, I
have run across a fairly good deal on a '68 F250 Camper Special that I am
thinking about getting. In my investigation, I wrote down the codes from
the door and looked them up in my book last night now. Now, I have 2 code
books, and the one at home (Ford Parts Identification Numbers or something
of the like) said the Trans code of "G" was "3-speed Automatic (C-4)" so
I'm thinking, "No way, these people don't know what they are talking about"
because it's the ONLY automatic listed, and these trucks came with up the
the 390 FE engine (my particular example has a 360, dammit, I was hoping it
was a 390). So I figure I'll consult my trusty Ford Red Book when I get to
work this morning, but, lo and behold, the Red Book says the SAME THING.
Not only for '68, but also '67 and '69. Funnier still, the Ranchero shows
both C-4 and C-6, so it's not like they didn't have any choice or something.

So, for anybody who owns one of these trucks or knows of them, are the
books correct? Was the C-4 the only auto trans from '67-'69 and was it
mated to the FE blocks? Or are these books both working from the same
wrong info? I wish I had crawled up under this truck and looked but I just
figured if it had a C-6 because it was an FE. The truck is about an hour
from my house so it may be a while before I see it again. Anybody know the
poop?

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:35:13 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 Rebuild

>Hello I am a new subscriber to this list. My name is Mark Miller and I
>recentlty bought a 67 F-100 Ranger 4WD that needs some TLC. I am a
>novice when it comes to aouto repair but have a friend who is showing me
>the ropes. I have decided that before I do any fancy accessories or body
>work I will rebuild the 390 that is in it now. I am looking for advice
>and possibly a good source of information on rebuiling this engine. I am
>trying to keep the cost to a minimum but I am also not concernd with
>going th extra mile to make it real nice and reliable. If anyone could
>help[ it would be greatly appreciated.
>
First off, are you sure it's a 390? If so that is not the original engine.
The only V8 offered in the F100 for '67 was the 352. It is also in the FE
family and looks just like a 390 externally. Also, a REAL '67 Ranger 4WD
would be a pretty rare truck whatever engine is in it - you may want to put
a 352 back in there to keep it original.

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:42:39 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?

At 03:25 PM 5/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
- -snip-
>
>So, for anybody who owns one of these trucks or knows of them, are the
>books correct? Was the C-4 the only auto trans from '67-'69 and was it
>mated to the FE blocks? Or are these books both working from the same
>wrong info? I wish I had crawled up under this truck and looked but I just
>figured if it had a C-6 because it was an FE. The truck is about an hour
>from my house so it may be a while before I see it again. Anybody know the
>poop?
>

My FE block 67 F100 has a C6. I haven't met anyone yet who's had
a C4 behind an FE. I think an FE would make minced meat of a C4.


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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:40:50 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hard starts

>From Dan Lee:

>>>Then I replaced the fuse and let the fuel pump operate. When the carb
was filled, I tried to start again, this time the engine was hard to
crank. Now I know that the problem is not electrical. The next thing
I should try is to lean the idle mixture (idle is fine the way it is
now) or lower the float level, or insert a carb insulator under the
carb (Carter on a Edelbrock aluminum manifold.)

Dan, I'm no expert on this type setup, but a friend of mine had a similar
problem on an Escort that had an after market electric fuel pump. Whoever
installed it had routed the fuel lines in such a way that the fuel would
vapor between the pump and the gas tank. The pump was effectively sucking
vapor, lost its prime and the car would quit. He was told that electric
fuel pumps push better than they pull. Maybe you have a similar problem?

Also, my F150 was very hard to turn over, even with a new battery. I
replaced every thing much as you have. The final cure was another new
battery with some serious cold crank amps. Someone else said they swear by
Interstate batteries. Part of Interstate's appeal is strong cold crank
amps. Generally, the longer the battery warranty, the more crank amps. Hope
this helps.

Exhaust wars note: My truck runs better and I'm getting better mileage with
my new fake duals. I think the new muffler also has less back pressure than
the old stock Walker had.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:41:39 -0700
From: "Art & Kat Lutz"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins

I was just wondering if anyone else has had problems with the roll pin
that holds the distributer gear on. I have had two break on two different
durasparks, the last time the truck still ran and took some time for me to
figure out. Is this a common problem?

My 78 is a XLT Ranger, in the catalogs for Carpenter and Obsolete they
just list a 78 door panel. Has anybody ordered panels from either? Will I
have to do some work on them to make them look like the OEM panel? Thanks

Art Lutz
78 F-250 XLT 4X4, 400 c.i.d.


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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:17:34 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins

Art & Kat Lutz wrote:

> I was just wondering if anyone else has had problems with the roll pin
> that holds the distributer gear on. I have had two break on two different
> durasparks, the last time the truck still ran and took some time for me to
> figure out. Is this a common problem?

Art: In regards to the roll pin, if this happens with two different
distributors, time to check the oil pump. There is something binding up in there.

>
>
> My 78 is a XLT Ranger, in the catalogs for Carpenter and Obsolete they
> just list a 78 door panel. Has anybody ordered panels from either? Will I
> have to do some work on them to make them look like the OEM panel? Thanks

The deluxe XLT panels are no longer available. Only the standard non deluxe ones.

Regards
John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500


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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:19:41 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?

> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:25:06 -0500
> From: John Strauss
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Big Block C-4?

> So, for anybody who owns one of these trucks or knows of them, are
> the books correct? Was the C-4 the only auto trans from '67-'69 and
> was it mated to the FE blocks? Or are these books both working from

The FMX was around then as was the C-4 and I think the C-6. At some
point right around there the C-6 took over the duties of the FMX but
not sure of the years. I know the 75 had the C-6 for sure and 73 had
the C-4 for sure. C-4 has separate bell housing and is all aluminum
with two band adjuster lugs. the FMX has a separate bell housing and
is cast iron, at least part of it is and the C-6 is all one piece and
all aluminum so if you get a chance to look at it you can tell at a
glance.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:24:21 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins

> From: "Art & Kat Lutz"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dist. roll pins
> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:41:39 -0700

> I was just wondering if anyone else has had problems with the roll
> pin
> that holds the distributer gear on. I have had two break on two
> different durasparks, the last time the truck still ran and took
> some time for me to figure out. Is this a common problem?

Only when the oil pump croaks. Check the oil pump drive shaft. It's
not supposed to be twisted :-)

> My 78 is a XLT Ranger, in the catalogs for Carpenter and
> Obsolete they
> just list a 78 door panel.

Haven't tried 'em yet but JCW has them also for our trucks now and
may be cheaper but not sure of quality.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:33:53 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings

Hey Damian,

Stu was right about pulling the little hemispherical cap off the shifter. I
found that two short pieces of 2x4's (on their edge) worked well for this. If
you put one on each side of the shifter on the little flat edges of the cap
where the shifter comes through and press down evenly, and turn
counterclockwise, it should come right out...

I think you'll want to put in neutral first.

Sometimes you have to press down pretty hard and the wood most likely won't
ruin the cap.

Good luck,

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:34:02 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - External Hubs

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the info.....

No need to track down those other part numbers.

By the way, whats a highboy worth, relatively rough body, not running. Its
been sitting for several months in this farmers yard. I've been considering
offering him about $1500 for it....is this out of line????

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:34:41 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front

Hey Ox,

Front end sounds awesome.

I think its pretty common to have the front track wider than the rear. Check
it out next time you're following a 4x4.....I've seen a lot of them this
way....

Also, I noticed you were looking at the 16.5's. I just upgraded from 15"
myself, and ended up with 16" rather than 16.5's. I'll give you my reasons:

1) I've heard from at least 7 or 8 people (in the tire business) that the
16.5's were slowly being phased out by manufacturers.
2) 16.5 rims and tires were significantly more expensive than the 16's (maybe
a function of being phased out).
3) The 16's have a better safety bead setup than the 16.5's.
4) The 16's fit on the dual piston caliper HD setups no problem.

I'm sure there are some good reasons to go with the 16.5's, but after talking
to several people, seemed like 16's were the logical way to go....

Let us know what you end up doing....

Just out of curiousity, what year is your Dana 60 front? Does it use the
external locking hubs?

Colorado Jeff





Colorado Jeff
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:38:27 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

I know we've been through this before, but what was the consensus on rear
lockers?

I'm trying to decide on some type of "soft locker" (no ratcheting, popping,
etc.) for my Dana 60 rear axle.

Anyone who has installed one of these have any comments or recommendations?

Also, what is a "good" price for the soft lockers....and who has them?

My local 4x4 shop can get them, but along with the locker, they want to give
me the shaft, too....

Colorado Jeff

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:00:48 -0700
From: james oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front

BDIJXS wrote:
>
> Hey Ox,
>
> Front end sounds awesome.
>

Thanks hope it's worth the money. I'm putting detroit in it soon.

> I think its pretty common to have the front track wider than the rear.

I guess it is, but I never thought about it before. ;-)

>iced you were looking at the 16.5's. I just upgraded from 15"
> myself, and ended up with 16" rather than 16.5's. I'll give you my reasons:
>
> 1) I've heard from at least 7 or 8 people (in the tire business) that the
> 16.5's were slowly being phased out by manufacturers.

Not in 44" sizes :-)

> 2) 16.5 rims and tires were significantly more expensive than the 16's (maybe
> a function of being phased out).

The Bart white steel wheels are 105$ ea. Expensive for steel, but built
to handle 40" plus tires.

> 3) The 16's have a better safety bead setup than the 16.5's.

I've heard some 16.5's have the bead setup, but I have not inquired
about the bart wheels yet. Anyway, no choices if thats the tire I want,
and it is.....

> Let us know what you end up doing....

Probably end up breaking it the first time out :-)

> Just out of curiousity, what year is your Dana 60 front? Does it use
>the external locking hubs?

Maybe external, how do I know?? The hub guts are identical to newer
versions, but the actual part you grab to lock them in is
older/different. On the one I have, you grab the plastic wheel and
rotate. The plastic wheel is grey and looks like it has very wide "gear
teeth" around the outside of plastic cover. It's different than ford's
usual locking hubs with chrome ring and red insert.

OX
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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:15:09 -0700
From: james oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear Lockers

BDIJXS wrote:
>
> I know we've been through this before, but what was the consensus on rear
> lockers?
>
> I'm trying to decide on some type of "soft locker" (no ratcheting, popping,
> etc.) for my Dana 60 rear axle.
>
> Anyone who has installed one of these have any comments or recommendations?
>

I had the soft locker (detroit) in my 9" and now have it in my dana 60
rear. I am going with it in my dana 60 front too. As for noise, I don't
normally hear any type of noise (no racheting) while cornering. What I
do get is when the tires bind up enough, the locker makes a bang like the
axle shaft just snapped !! Does not happen too often. Mostly on pavement
when I'm pulling my boat. Scares the Bageebas out of you the first time
you hear it. Both of my soft lockers did/do this, so I assume it's
normal. Never had problems with either one. Occasionally, when I have one
front wheel up in the air or front tires turned sharp in mud offroad, I
hear racheting. Currently I have a lockrite in dana 44 front with 38"....


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