61-79-list-digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 245



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: gauges
FTE 61-79 - engine
FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?
FTE 61-79 - Re: Thanks!
FTE 61-79 - Hubs & Highboy's
FTE 61-79 - 390 Rebuild
Re: FTE 61-79 - engine
FTE 61-79 - Re: Hard Starting
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Thanks!
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 Rebuild
FTE 61-79 - Cheap Fare
FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front
Re: FTE 61-79 - New Server
Re: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front
FTE 61-79 - Wife
Re: FTE 61-79 - Wife
FTE 61-79 - RE: dana 60 front
Re: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front
Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?
FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: dana 60 front
Re: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings

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Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:47:37 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: gauges

Sleddog wrote:

> i hope it was AFTER the wedding!!
>
> ----------
> From: sdelanty sonic.net[SMTP:sdelanty sonic.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 1998 2:02 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: gauges
>
> A friend of mine had his "episode" on his wedding day.
> The copper tube at the back of the gauge cracked and sprayed his new
> brides feet with nice warm oil. I hear it's *very* expensive to get
> dirty 10-40 out of Your wedding dress...

Nope: I use Gunk engine cleaner to remove oil from my shirts when they get
sprayed. It cost $1.49 at Pep Boys.

Where there's a will there's a way!!

Regards
John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab


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Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:05:16 -0500
From: "Eric Washburn"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - engine

I have a 1967 F100 Custom Cab with a 240 in it. I think it threw a rod and
instead of fixing it , I want to know what I have to do to put a 300 in it.
I have a 3-speed manual Ford tranny (Code #C).
I woul appreciate any info!

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?


did we ever get a list of who's going to the Nat's

I am wondering who to look for?

john
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Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 21:03:16 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Thanks!

Thanks Don Grossman for your help. Yes, I did go out today and paid to have 9 inch rearend from a 1974
Ranger pulled. I am getting it hub to hub, brake line and all. That will match up with the front end
which is all 1974 parts too.

Don, you didn't say anything about the original tranny. Is it a better street tranny than the NP435?

- -=DENNIS=-

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Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:31:47 PDT
From: "Dave Walbeck"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hubs & Highboy's

Hello Again Everyone,

The hubs were made by Dana/Spicer, and yes they were used on D*dge &
Ch*vy also (Although not as much as on the Fords) and NONE sit higher
from the factory than a HIGHBOY!!!! In fact I picked up a pair from a
Ch*vy for one of my trucks and just changed the knobs (Still available
from Ford). I'm not exactly sure why they quit using the external hubs
(Maybe they are just to strong and Ford wasn't selling trucks because
they weren't breaking) or maybe when Ford changed to the reverse
rotation front end they were afraid of front end problems who knows.
That is one question, unfortunatly, I can't answer. As for the lift
blocks, YES all Highboy's have them from the factory. They all should
have the loops cast into them unless they have been changed or broken.

Jeff,

The only other parts that I show available are the bolts P/N 302298
and the knob retainer ( I think this is the pin but I'm not sure)
P/N D2TZ-1A093-A, I can get you all the other part numbers if you want
them but they are all obsolete. I even tried getting parts for these
hubs from Ch*vy but they discontinued them before Ford did, although
I haven't tried D*dge which gets me thinking, Hmmmmmm. Might have to
call them tomorrow. Let me know if you want these other numbers.

Dave
Complete and Total FORDNUT, Highboy Nut, & FE Nut Too!!!!!!!!


______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Sep 1956 21:45:02 +0000
From: Mark & Allison Miller
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 Rebuild

Hello I am a new subscriber to this list. My name is Mark Miller and I
recentlty bought a 67 F-100 Ranger 4WD that needs some TLC. I am a
novice when it comes to aouto repair but have a friend who is showing me
the ropes. I have decided that before I do any fancy accessories or body
work I will rebuild the 390 that is in it now. I am looking for advice
and possibly a good source of information on rebuiling this engine. I am
trying to keep the cost to a minimum but I am also not concernd with
going th extra mile to make it real nice and reliable. If anyone could
help[ it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Mark
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:17:44 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - engine

At 05:05 PM 5/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have a 1967 F100 Custom Cab with a 240 in it. I think it threw a rod and
>instead of fixing it , I want to know what I have to do to put a 300 in it.
>I have a 3-speed manual Ford tranny (Code #C).
>I woul appreciate any info!

Unbolt the 240 and bolt in the 300. It should be a direct bolt in swap,
no different than putting another 240 in.

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:54:43, -0500
From: GEGK00A prodigy.com ( DAN LEE)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Hard Starting

In an earlier posting I mentioned that my 351C-4V was hard to crank
when hot. I received several replies to that post. One suggested
electrical problems including battery. Another suggested percolating
fuel in the carb due to excessive heat or just an overrich mixture.
I
set up a test to try to determine the cause of the problem. I ran the
engine at idle until it reached operating temperature. Then I removed
the fuse for the electric fuel pump. When the motor stopped, I
restarted it until it would not start any longer. At this time the
motor cranked normally, in spite of being at operating temperature.
Then I replaced the fuse and let the fuel pump operate. When the carb
was filled, I tried to start again, this time the engine was hard to
crank. Now I know that the problem is not electrical. The next thing
I should try is to lean the idle mixture (idle is fine the way it is
now) or lower the float level, or insert a carb insulator under the
carb (Carter on a Edelbrock aluminum manifold.)

Dan Lee
'53 F100
351C-4V
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 21:46:13 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Thanks!

Dennis K. Austin wrote:

> Thanks Don Grossman for your help. Yes, I did go out today and paid to have 9 inch rearend from a 1974
> Ranger pulled. I am getting it hub to hub, brake line and all. That will match up with the front end
> which is all 1974 parts too.
>
> Don, you didn't say anything about the original tranny. Is it a better street tranny than the NP435?
>
> -=DENNIS=-
>

For standard street driving it should be fine. If you do lots of heavy towing or hauling the 435 might be
the better choice. You have the extra low first gear but drive it like a three speed most of the time
anyway. Usage is always the key. The 74 rear end will (should) be a stronger housing than the older
one. Did you happen to check the spring pad width and the distance from hub to hub. I am not sure if 74
had a wider rear frame than the earlier trucks.


- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:58:33 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 Rebuild

From: Mark
>I am
>trying to keep the cost to a minimum but I am also not concernd with
>going th extra mile to make it real nice and reliable. If anyone could
>help[ it would be greatly appreciated.

Just get a couple cans of Ford blue paint and spray it over the oil and
dirt and you should get what your looking for! I get all my information
from MAD magazine. :)

Deacon's the king at twisting words! Welcome to the list Mark. Pay no
attention to me. I think I'm a Comedian. :)

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:51:16 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cheap Fare

>Hang in there, the ride is rough but the destination is worth it.

>Ken Payne, List Slave
>Ford Truck Enthusiasts
>http://www.ford-trucks.com

Well worth it in my book.

> A friend of mine had his "episode" on his wedding day.
> The copper tube at the back of the gauge cracked and sprayed his new
> brides feet with nice warm oil. I hear it's *very* expensive to get
> dirty 10-40 out of Your wedding dress...

Don't you know that got things off on the wrong "foot".
I have a story that's probably worse than that. I suckered my wife(a week
before the wedding) into helping me change a set of valve guide seals in her
dad's '74 F250. Did it in chassis, with compressed air. The spring
compressor broke about half way through, and she was afraid she'd drop the
keepers. So she compressed the springs by hand. Gave me a little pause on
where I let her grab me when she's mad. And she probably gets mad everytime
she looks at the wedding pictures, because she doesn't have any fingernails!
R-E-S-P-E-C-T, she gets ALL she wants.


Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:43:04 -0700
From: james oxley
Subject: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front

Hey all

Picked up my dana 60 front yesterday. Guy did real sweet job on the
radius arm mounts. Just for kicks, I started mesuring stuff. I found out
Dana 60 front is 3 inches wider than dana 44 from wheel flange to wheel
flange. I measured the extra dana 60 rear I have and it's the same as the
dana 44 front. If I remember right, the dana 60 rear was wider than the
9", drum to drum. Is that normal for the front track to be wider than
the rear??

OX
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 09:44:47 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New Server

At 03:29 AM 5/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Congratulations Ken.
>
>
>Ballinger
>ballingr ldd.net
>

Thanks,

Now that its working (still have to getting the posting person's
email address in the digest headers) I can set up other lists
for the members without increasing costs. This is a huge plus.
And our server archives the digests temporarily so I can resend
anything if something does go wrong, an option I didn't have
with the old list server.

Ken


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 07:05:15 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front

james oxley wrote:

> Hey all
>
> Picked up my dana 60 front yesterday. Guy did real sweet job on the
> radius arm mounts. Just for kicks, I started mesuring stuff. I found out
> Dana 60 front is 3 inches wider than dana 44 from wheel flange to wheel
> flange. I measured the extra dana 60 rear I have and it's the same as the
> dana 44 front. If I remember right, the dana 60 rear was wider than the
> 9", drum to drum. Is that normal for the front track to be wider than
> the rear??
>
> OX
>

Yep, also depending on what year trucks the parts are off of. As the trucks
get newer they also go wider. The 78Dana 44 I put under my truck is about
4" wider than the origional 63 Dana 44. It looks alot wider compared with
the 60's Dana 60 rear. I am going to measure some 73 and later Dana 60
rears to see if they come closer to the Dana 44.

That's gona be trick, coil spring Dana 60.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:39:11 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Wife

Stu varner wrote: >>I want her to move in with me.....wanna work out a
trade??
:) very big grin!! I might could come up with a 427 block!!????

Are you wired for 2 wives?????????? Bet they wouldn't share!!!!!
I agree that it would be great to have a wife to share in our hobbies,
but it probably wouldn't work to have two of them.


Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:42:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Wife

At 12:39 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Stu varner wrote: >>I want her to move in with me.....wanna work out a
>trade??
>:) very big grin!! I might could come up with a 427 block!!????
>
>Are you wired for 2 wives?????????? Bet they wouldn't share!!!!!
>I agree that it would be great to have a wife to share in our hobbies,
>but it probably wouldn't work to have two of them.
>
>

I am not a bigamist! Just wanted to work out a trade! :)
My wife is supportive I guess, Just doesn';t want an older Bronco as a daily
driver .......she wants one of those spensive Expeditions! OUCH!

You must be catching up on long lost mail. This was weeks old!

Stu
Nuke GM!
check out the homepage!
www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:14:44 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: dana 60 front

i have a dana 60 front that may find it's way into my pull truck, using the
radius arms, if my 1./2 ton suspension doesn't hold up this year. can you
send info on how you are doing this swap? how was the mounts made for the
axle/arms? i have a old 44 with welded on mounts. is this the way to go
to cut them off and put on to the 60?

sleddog

- ----------
From: james oxley[SMTP:luxjo thecore.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 11:43 AM
To: bigbroncos unix.off -road. com
Cc: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front

Hey all

Picked up my dana 60 front yesterday. Guy did real sweet job on the
radius arm mounts. Just for kicks, I started mesuring stuff. I found out
Dana 60 front is 3 inches wider than dana 44 from wheel flange to wheel
flange. I measured the extra dana 60 rear I have and it's the same as the
dana 44 front. If I remember right, the dana 60 rear was wider than the
9", drum to drum. Is that normal for the front track to be wider than
the rear??

OX




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:19:11 -0700
From: james oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front

Don Grossman wrote:
>
> james oxley wrote:
>

> Yep, also depending on what year trucks the parts are off of. As the trucks
> get newer they also go wider. The 78Dana 44 I put under my truck is about
> 4" wider than the origional 63 Dana 44. It looks alot wider compared with
> the 60's Dana 60 rear. I am going to measure some 73 and later Dana 60
> rears to see if they come closer to the Dana 44.
>


Well, the dana 60 front (not sure what year), seems identical to 78,
F-250, HD option, front I have for parts (cept locking mech). The locking
mech on the older modded 60 front has plastic wheels you grab on the
outside vs the newer dana 60 fronts that have larger versions of chrome
ring/red plastic twist thing.

Anyway, the modded 60 front is 70 inches disc to disc (talking wheel
mating surface here). The dana 60 rear I have (1979) is 67 inches, disc
to disc (I have rear disc). The dana 44, 5 lug is 67 inches disc to disc.
If I remember, the 9" was not as wide as the dana 60, hence less than 67
inches. I also have one side of a dana 44 HD upgrade. At least .75
inches of the extra 1.5 inches from each side comes from the different
brake setups. Dana 44 HD (78-79 vintage) is .75 wider from knuckle to
wheel mating than std dana 44 (78-79 vintage).

I was planning on running 15" tires (35's) for boat pulling. This would
require caliper grinding and 1/4 inch spacers up front, making front
track even wider, Uggh!!. Guess I'll definately go with 16.5's for
offroad to avoid spacer use. I also thought maybe dana 60 front was from
an older truck, possibly being wider, but your sayin it's just the
opposite ;-). I guess the dana 60 rears did not change with the fronts,
as I have a 78 and a 79 and they are both 67 inches drum to drum.

>Thats gonna be trick, coil spring Dana 60.

I just saw in 4 Wheeler a guy with a 77 F-150 that had 9" lift, coil
front, dana 60 front and dana 70 rear. It will be pretty cool though and
I guess it works, cause this guy had detroits and 44 boggers, probably
the biggest/heaviest street legal tire made.

OX
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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 13:28:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - who's going to Pigeon forge ?

At 05:23 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> did we ever get a list of who's going to the Nat's
>
> I am wondering who to look for?

Ken Payne, list dad
Clare Waterman-Storer (2)
Keith Srb
Ted Freeman and wife
Barry Price and spouse
Jon Purut and Chelley his bride
John Miller and wife.....semper fi
John and Peggy Niolon
Dan and Marsha Herman...he claims to be the tallest and ugliest there.
Charles and his F-250...no last name?
Colorado Jeff
Kristen marcellus all the way from canada
Gary Bowling
Yours truely.....Stu varner

Feel free to add your name to the list so we can figure it all out by the 15th!!
Enjoy and I look forward to seeing everyone there!

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: craig001 mc.duke.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings

Played around with my toy (70 F100, 300 ci, 4speed) yesterday and
as usual found more questions than answers. Has anyone changed
the shifter bushings on a 4-speed? I pulled the cover off the cab
floor to gain access to the gearbox. It looks like I have to
either pry off the cap at the base of the shifter OR remove the
top cover of the gearbox to get at the bushings. I didn't pry off
the cap because I thought I might mangle it and I ran out of
light before I had enough gunk cleaned off the gearbox to remove
the cover. How should I proceed?

If I remove the top cover, would this be a good time to change
the gear oil (assuming there is any in there)? Any suggestions on
oil type/weight?

The parts guy at the local Ford dealer said I should take the old
bushings down there and he would have new ones in stock. Does
this sound reasonable? I'd rather not disassemble a running truck
and then have it all in pieces and find out I can't get the new
parts any time soon.


I found some numbers on the gearbox cover:

A27 2 and then under it in bigger type T18-148D. Also on a little
tag on one of the cover bolts:

AS69-T18 and C9T3 N-1

Do these tell me anything?

There is also a labelmaker label stuck to the driver's side door
jamb that reads AF 23095. Is this maybe a chassis number from a
tag that has been removed?

BTW, I also found out this weekend that the P.O. bought the truck
with over 300K miles on it. He didn't turn over the odometer, but
I just did, so I'm at the 400K mark!

Thanks in advance to these newbie questions.

Damian Craig

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Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:17:34 -0700
From: james oxley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: dana 60 front

Sleddog wrote:
>
> can you send info on how you are doing this swap? how was the mounts
>made for the axle/arms? i have a old 44 with welded on mounts.

The idea was mine (prob not original though), but not the execution. I
did use a 78, dana 44, 1/2 ton front for a donor. The tubes were cut off
on either end of each mount. Mounts were then bored down the middle to
match dana 60 axle tube size. There is no way I could have done that part
myself. After boring, mounts were cut in half on top and bottom. Leaf
spring mount and steering stab mounts were cut off on pass side. Mount
halfs were welded to D60 axle tubes in approprate spots.

I haven't bolted it in yet, but 1/2 ton steering is supposed to bolt
right up to knuckles. I have a D60 front for parts and am using knuckle
cap from non-steering side to replace steering side that I don't need
anymore. Adjustable drag link may be needed. Superlift sells this for
130$. Track bar mounts just like it did as pass mount contains the track
bar. Let everyone know more as conversion progresses.

OX


is this the way to go
> to cut them off and put on to the 60?
>
> sleddog
>
> ----------
> From: james oxley[SMTP:luxjo thecore.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 11:43 AM
> To: bigbroncos unix.off -road. com
> Cc: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - dana 60 front
>
> Hey all
>
> Picked up my dana 60 front yesterday. Guy did real sweet job on the
> radius arm mounts. Just for kicks, I started mesuring stuff. I found out
> Dana 60 front is 3 inches wider than dana 44 from wheel flange to wheel
> flange. I measured the extra dana 60 rear I have and it's the same as the
> dana 44 front. If I remember right, the dana 60 rear was wider than the
> 9", drum to drum. Is that normal for the front track to be wider than
> the rear??
>
> OX
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:27:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - shifter bushings

At 02:33 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Played around with my toy (70 F100, 300 ci, 4speed) yesterday and
> as usual found more questions than answers. Has anyone changed
> the shifter bushings on a 4-speed? I pulled the cover off the cab
> floor to gain access to the gearbox. It looks like I have to
> either pry off the cap at the base of the shifter OR remove the
> top cover of the gearbox to get at the bushings. I didn't pry off
> the cap because I thought I might mangle it and I ran out of
> light before I had enough gunk cleaned off the gearbox to remove
> the cover. How should I proceed?

When you take the black cover off the floor, take a large pair of channel
locks and press down on the hemispherical cover and turn counter clockwise.
There are 2 pins which are located at 3 and 9 oclock that hold the hemi
shaped cover in place. The shifter shaft should come out with the
hemispherical part ......at least this is how the NP 435 is. Correct me if....


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