61-79-list-digest Saturday, June 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 340



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - 84 Bronco
Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460
RE: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing
RE: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing
RE: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460
FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal
Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal
FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal
RE: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460
Re: FTE 61-79 - bad news for me-seeking advice
RE: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing
Re: FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing
FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement
Re: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing
RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear End
RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear End
Re: FTE 61-79 - New to list...but please help
FTE 61-79 - 1962 ford f-100 unibody truck
FTE 61-79 - fuel guage
Re: Re: FTE 61-79 - Leaky carbs
FTE 61-79 - Transmission
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear End
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission
FTE 61-79 - Barn Project, lift, DONE! :-)
Re: Re: FTE 61-79 - Leaky carbs
FTE 61-79 - RE: Edelbrock Cams and Timing
Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear End
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Edelbrock Cams and Timing

=======================================================================

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:55:56 -0700
From: Charles Morley
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

After wading thru a bizillion archives with no apparent luck, can anyone
give me a ball park figure on the weight of a 460, complete engine. I'm
trying to decide what load rating to use for an engine stand.

Thanks
Charles

'42 Ford tractor(2N)
'78 Ranger 460
'89 Ranger 2.9L
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:59:35 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 84 Bronco

> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:24:26 -0500
> From: "Bruce M. Bratton"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 84 Bronco

> My son has an 84 Bronco. Put a new starter in it and worked for
> short while, then would not engage. Turned motor a bit and engaged.
> Thought it might be the flywheel. Took flywheel off and is fine.
> Any ideas? Thanks, Bruce

Can't think of anything the others didn't mention but if dirt had
found it's way into the drive or splines on the starter shaft it
won't move easily and to operate it needs to move very easily. I
suggest next time you take it off, set it on something strong in the
engine compartment so that it's well grounded and press a jumper
cable from the hot battery post to the selenoid terminal (or copper
lug if positive engagement type) (press very quickly and firmly to
avoid arcing) to see if the drive comes all the way out to the snap
ring and the motor spins freely. Hang on tight because the motor
will try to jump out of your hands from the torque.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:11:40 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:55:56 -0700
> From: Charles Morley
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

> After wading thru a bizillion archives with no apparent luck, can
> anyone give me a ball park figure on the weight of a 460, complete
> engine. I'm trying to decide what load rating to use for an engine
> stand.

Roughly 750# but for best peace of mind I'd get the heaviest engine
stand I could afford. Heavier pins and clamps just make it that much
easier to turn over and handle. I made one out of an old drum brake
dana 44 hub and it works very nicely :-)

Also get the largest wheels on the dollys you can find, garage floors
tend to get dirty and moving over debris, even sand with small wheels
is a real pain with almost 1/2 ton of iron on them. I bought the
largest high load capacity wheels they had at fleet supply and they
aren't big enough or hard enough to easily roll it around.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:21:01 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing

you make it sound too simple. first yuo must be able to locate the degree
wheel, and the stock dampaner is not reliable to do this. so you also need
a piston stop and you must find TDC first, then find intake centerline or
opening point for comparison. opening at .050" is better, but with
hydraulic lifters it is not accurate either. so you really need to put the
dial indicater on the EDGE of the hyd lifter to remove any error incured by
the "squish" in the lifter.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, June 12, 1998 6:18 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing

> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:20:16 -0500
> From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing

> -8. Does any one know how I can tell how retarded my cam is without
> pulling the cover? I'm inclined to say -12, how many teeth would
> that be? Remember I'm having to run 20-25 derees of initial timing
> to get 16 hg of vacuam.

If you have a degree wheel and indicator you can pull a valve cover
and measure the crank relative to a certain opening and compare it to
the spec sheet.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:34:27 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing

absolutley true gary. both problems happen, and this in excess may also
cause a oil pump driveshaft breakage IMHO. engines that drive the dest.
off the rear of the cam must be even worse. (one advantage n newer car
ignitions have over even a very good ignition from the destributer days,
and one less problem for deisels!)

FYI (non-ford content) the cheby's with the side-by-side oil pump rotors
with a stock number of teeth create a torsional vibration that travels up
the shaft and disturbs the destributer so much it can cause major problems
at higher rpms.

the testing i have seen for dampeners (Drag Racing Monthly july 1998) the
bad camshaft harmonics was concluded to be a bigger cause of power loss
than spark scatter. (remember, 10 degrees off on a cam is a big difference
but 10 deg of spark is not as much) another amazing point that david
vizard also came up with in testing was that the largest stock dampener
made more power than the smallest ones under 7250rpm (cheby smallblock) i
think this will also hold true to other engines of better "breeding". this
was using an "acceleration" test on a dyno, so it simulated a 1/4 mile run,
and even with all the extra weight to spin it made "quicker passes" on the
dyno.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, June 12, 1998 6:13 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing
> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:23:40 -0400

> good point, sloppy cam timing is a big power/economy loss. that is

And what goes with the sloppy cam? A sloppy dizzy and what's called
spark "scatter" although this is usually attributed to a worn dizzy
bushing it can also happen with bad gear teeth or sloppy cam timing
so you actually have two problems exacerbating each other :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:43:02 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

my engine stand is rated at over 1000# but it really sagged under a 460.
just the block alone seams too heavy and my current concreted block is
making my engine stand look like it was made outta cardboard.

get the best stand you can afford to get, especually if you plan on using
it for more than just once. i have seen engine weights of 750#, 850# and
others for the 460. some say it is heavier than the FE. i personnaly
think the FE is heavier, but they are both very heavy. these are not small
blocks with aluminum heads here!

the fordnatics page used to have a weight listing for engines, but i
couldn't find the url for it now. there was at least 2 different weight
listings in it for the 460.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Charles Morley[SMTP:motley linkline.com]
Sent: Friday, June 12, 1998 10:55 AM
To: ford
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

After wading thru a bizillion archives with no apparent luck, can anyone
give me a ball park figure on the weight of a 460, complete engine. I'm
trying to decide what load rating to use for an engine stand.

Thanks
Charles

'42 Ford tractor(2N)
'78 Ranger 460
'89 Ranger 2.9L
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:39:55 -0700
From: Charles Morley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:>
> Roughly 750# but for best peace of mind I'd get the heaviest engine
> stand I could afford. Heavier pins and clamps just make it that much
> easier to turn over and handle. I made one out of an old drum brake
> dana 44 hub and it works very nicely :-)
>
> Also get the largest wheels on the dollys you can find, garage floors
> tend to get dirty and moving over debris, even sand with small wheels
> is a real pain with almost 1/2 ton of iron on them. I bought the
> largest high load capacity wheels they had at fleet supply and they
> aren't big enough or hard enough to easily roll it around.

Thanks Gary, good advice.

Charles
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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:06:58 +0000
From: tfmf211 murphyfarms.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal

Okay, say it! I'm a dufus! I cannot figure
out how the fan/spacer/and pulley comes
off on my 360. I loosened the four long
bolts that attach the fan through the spacer
to the pulley/water pump. The fan will come
off the spacer and the bolts are to long to
physically remove due to the radiator, but
there dosn't seem to be anything else to keep
the spacer or pulley for the water pump on.
The belts have been loosened (taken off)
and the pulley freewheels easy, but will not
move away from the block. I'm sure I'm
missing something simple, but I see nothing
else that holds this together. I need to get the
fan off to install a fan shield on my '68. I also
wanted to remove the A/C bracket and clean
it up since I'm installing a new/used system
and one of the bracket bolts is mounted behind
the water pump pulley. This bracket is different
from the other brackets that have just 2 bolts on
drivers side of the block that I've seen. I guess
in '68 Ford wanted to make sure the compressor
wasn't going anywhere. This bracket also secures
the power steering bracket.

TIA,

-Ted
'68 F-100 360 and soon "Air"
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:03:14 -0700
From: Charles Morley
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

Sleddog wrote:
>
> my engine stand is rated at over 1000# but it really sagged under a 460.
> just the block alone seams too heavy and my current concreted block is
> making my engine stand look like it was made outta cardboard.
>
> get the best stand you can afford to get, especually if you plan on using
> it for more than just once. i have seen engine weights of 750#, 850# and
> others for the 460. some say it is heavier than the FE. i personnaly
> think the FE is heavier, but they are both very heavy. these are not small
> blocks with aluminum heads here!
>
> the fordnatics page used to have a weight listing for engines, but i
> couldn't find the url for it now. there was at least 2 different weight
> listings in it for the 460.
>
>

It would appear a two ton stand would *not* be overkill

Thanks to all
Charles
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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:51:38 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal

The spacer has a hole in the middle, that pushes onto a little knob in the
middle of the water pump flange (the thing the bolts go into.

You grab the spacer, wiggle it up/down and side/side till it loosens off
the knob.

Careful, cause if you wiggle it too hard and it comes loose the fan (which
is heavy!) will crash into your radiator.

That's all there is to it.


marko in vancouver
marko dsm.ca

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:10:04 -0500
From: "Nils Gore"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement

I just bought a '64 F10 LWB. Body is in great shape; the motor (I believe
it's a 292, but am not positive) is all taken apart, with the carb and
intake manifold in the floor, one head in the bed, and miscellaneous parts
scattered about. I have no idea what's wrong with it besides being
disassembled. I'm now trying to figure out what to do next.

I want to restore this truck so that it looks great, but also so that my
wife can drive it on a daily basis; she loves old trucks. This means power
steering, and also A/C, as we live in Mississippi.

My questions:

1. I would sort of like to keep the old motor, for purist reasons (Am
currently in the process of figuring out if it's even repairable). Can it
take on power steering and A/C without extreme modification?

2. If it can't what would be a good alternative?

3. Any other advice I might need to know about this truck?

Nils Gore
nils sarc.msstate.edu
601 325-2207 voice MSU S/ARC
601 325-8872 fax MSU S/ARC
601 494-0038 voice Criss Gore Architects
601 494-0058 fax Criss Gore Architects

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:20:00 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal

> From: tfmf211 murphyfarms.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:06:58 +0000
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE Fan & Fan Pulley removal

> Okay, say it! I'm a dufus! I cannot figure
> out how the fan/spacer/and pulley comes
> off on my 360. I loosened the four long

The aluminum spacer is a tight fit on the boss of the pump shaft so
generally needs to be pried off or gently tapped all around till it
comes loose. Try tapping it with a small hammer all around the fan
end lip and it should come right off.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:22:15 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

definately not. in fact, the best stands are the homemade ones that are
over engineered! but, like i said if you are only going to use it once a
cheap one leaves some funds left over for other parts. and you can use a
2x4 to hold up the other end while you are not working on it. that's what
i do. got one for the crank height, one for the height of the mains, etc.
eanc one notched to fit engine, and over stand's leg. this way i can roll
it still with the board supporting the one end. sleezy, but it works.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Charles Morley[SMTP:motley linkline.com]
Sent: Friday, June 12, 1998 12:03 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Weight of 460

It would appear a two ton stand would *not* be overkill

Thanks to all
Charles




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:30:34 EDT
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - bad news for me-seeking advice

In a message dated 98-06-11 23:36:52 EDT, you write:


daily-driver motor, nothing fancy, but I would like plenty of power acros=
s
all rpm ranges. I'd like to be able to pull mountain passes with ease as
well as blast down the highway at 85 mph without problem and with power t=
o
spare. I'm not much up on camshafts, but will the stock cam be sufficient= >>

I ran a 360 a few years back with an EdelBroke Performer and Holley 600CFM
4-BBL and got good results. I ran that at first with stock cam and it bogged
down real bad.

After I switched to a hotter cam (I dont remember the specs, (I will check
later and e-mail you privately), it ran pretty good from idle up to about 5K.
I also had headers and a mallory ignition setup (I strongly reccomend Mallory
Ignitions, they run good and they always replaced worn out parts for free for
me).

P.S. I have never owned any other carbs than Holley, and some of the listers
here reccomend other carbs, such as Carter etc.

- - Mike
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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:38:09 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and Timing
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:21:01 -0400

> you make it sound too simple. first yuo must be able to locate the
> degree wheel, and the stock dampaner is not reliable to do this. so
> you also need a piston stop and you must find TDC first, then find
> intake centerline or opening point for comparison. opening at .050"
> is better, but with hydraulic lifters it is not accurate either. so
> you really need to put the dial indicater on the EDGE of the hyd
> lifter to remove any error incured by the "squish" in the lifter.

Ok, so I left out the piston stop, big deal :-) You need that to
find TDC for the degree wheel but I think you could measure the lift
without too much trouble by backing off the tension on the rocker so
you have the .05" clearance you need to take the measurement in which
case the valve spring would not be a factor??

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:08:07 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement

> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:10:04 -0500
> From: "Nils Gore"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement

> miscellaneous parts scattered about. I have no idea what's wrong
> with it besides being disassembled. I'm now trying to figure out
> what to do next.
>
> I want to restore this truck so that it looks great, but also so
> that my wife can drive it on a daily basis; she loves old trucks.
> This means power steering, and also A/C, as we live in Mississippi.

All the stuff you mentioned can be done with the right bank account
but take the block, pistons and crank to a shop where they can
measure things and compare to spec's which they should also have
handy. They can help you determine if it's worth the trouble. The
old "Y" blocks were pretty good torquers so worth fixing IMHO if you
can without reinventing the wheel in the process :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:21:48 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing

>From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing
>
>This prompts me to respond with a caution: Most OEM's
>will substitute a "one size fits all" replacement part after
>a certain number of years so beware if you try to get the
>post 77 truck cam. Make sure it actually has the 77 truck
>cam specs which I'm sure Dave can dig up for us :-)

Yo Gary:

Is this a challenge or something? :-)

The only info I have on OEM cam specs are for the car 400 cam D4AZ-6250-A,
which is 192/198 dur. 0.050", 0.427"/0.433" gross lift, 110 deg. lobe
separation. That info is based on a stock replacement listed in the Crane
catalog (I think part # is 19443?).

The only later truck cam I have a part number for is D9TZ-6250-A, but I
really don't know anything about its specs. I'd guess it has the same
duration specs as the car cam, or maybe 198 0.050" on both lobes, and
probably 0.433" gross lift on both valves, but I don't know for sure. That
was the last M-block cam that Ford made, and that's the one in my 1980
351M.

The M-blocks were discontinued in cars after 1979 model year, but M-blocks
were built for trucks throughout the 1982 model year and the last few 400s
were used in early production 1983 F trucks. The car cam would have been
out of production for 3 years by the time M-block truck engine production
ceased.

As for what's available after a "certain number" of years, the car cam was
obsoleted in 1988 and the truck cam was obsoleted in 1996.

With those wimpy durations on the OEM parts, who'd want one anyway? I just
mentioned it in case someone is looking to drop in a used engine w/ the
original cam.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:20:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '64 F10 motor replacement

There are several compines that make kits for our trucks, including
Vintage Air (~$1000) and Old Air Products (~$900).
Perhaps some of the more experienced truck restorers can comment on
installing an AC system from a donor car. This would make a very useful
tech article if there are enough experienced replies.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:42:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing

> From: "Dave Resch"
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:21:48 -0600
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - M-block cams/timing

> Yo Gary:
>
> Is this a challenge or something? :-)

I knew you'd come through for us Dave :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:52:45 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear End

So from what I understand limited slip is a "one wheel wonder". What do I
need so that when I take off I get both tires turn and I can leave two black
marks instead of one ("a two wheel wonder")? :)

Yep,
If it's a Ford, it's limited slip. If it's GM, its posi. They
both do the same thing, just named different. Just like harmonic
balancer and vibration dampener.

E-mail : bear269 sparc.isl.net
Please view my home page at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.isl.net/~bear269/home

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:20:05 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear End

> From: "Bear"
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear End
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:52:45 -0500

> So from what I understand limited slip is a "one wheel wonder".
> What do I need so that when I take off I get both tires turn and I
> can leave two black marks instead of one ("a two wheel wonder")? :)

On pavement it probably will give you both wheels but on ice, snow,
mud, sand it will spin the least tractive wheel unless you apply a
little brake to force the clutches to grab.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:41:23 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New to list...but please help

Both Four Wheeler magazine and Petersen's 4 Wheel & Off Road magazine have
published a comprehensive state by state list of lift laws. You might try
to write or e-mail them.

- ----------
> From: Daniel R. Gerow
> To: Ford List
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - New to list...but please help
> Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 3:48 PM
>
I live in Massachusetts, and I need to find out if anyone knows
> off-hand or could point me to someone who knows the laws regarding
> height limitations on trucks. Now, I have been in contact with State
> Troopers, local police, people at the Registry and the DOT and so far I
> have got about 6-8 different answers. I have had problems with this
> situation before with my Bronco (i'll never learn). If anyone has any
> info, even if it is for another state, I would really appreciate it.
> Thank you in advance.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:38:24 +0000
From: APPLIED TECHNOLOGY
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1962 ford f-100 unibody truck

i am rebuilding a 1962 ford 1/2 ton, unibody shortbox. does any one know
the answers to the following questions

1) what bench seat would fit out of a later model car or truck. i want
to put a comfortable seat in.

2) what car or truck could i get a fuel tank out of that would fit
underneath and where would the best place to mount it be?

3) what power steering will fit it out of a newer car or truck. the
truck has a 223 engine?

thanks, glen
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:48:35 -0700
From: Aaron Jacobson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel guage

Howdy all!
Got a question for the guage experts.The fuel guage on my 65 f250 reads
at about half way between 1/2 and 3/4 when it is filled right up.It
operates O.K. as the fuel tank emptys(wich is quite fast) and seems to
go beyond the empty mark.I haven't seen how far yet.I don't think it is
completely empty though.Is there any way to adjust these or would it be
my sending unit?
Thanks in advance.
After reading all the post on kingpins I don't think I will try the old
backyard for mine!
Jake in B.C.
65 f250 camper special(flat black and still going)
351c
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:59:22 EDT
From: RDbanesjr aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: FTE 61-79 - Leaky carbs

i put in a carb kit with new gaskets and the thing leaked right off the bat. i
doubled up on the gasket and it worked, atleast up till now, two months later
it starts leaking again. if the top edge of the bowl was slightly warped
shoulndt the gaskets make up for that, not that i know anything is warped or
not.

dug in louisiana
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:29:45 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Transmission

I've noticed that on occasion, 4th gear on my NP435 will grind when you
go for it, it seems worst when warm. It doesn't do it all the time. When
it does it you have to double clutch and it will go in. It also seems
like when you pull back from third at neutral the 4th gear notch will be
just a little toward the left from straight back. I don't have any whine
or anything else. Any ides?
- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:49:49 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear End

most of the truck limited slips are refered to as track locks,unless the
clutches are worn out,they should both spin unless you are in a bind and you
have extreme
pressure on one tire,for sure fire no spin,use a detroit locker,but some
people
consider them agrivating for street use,i have a locker in the rear of my 78
4x4
and i love it,i have a track lock in the front.i do drag an inside tire every
now and then.
soft lockers are a little more forgiving on the street.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:09:22 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission

At 10:29 PM 6/12/98 , you wrote:
>I've noticed that on occasion, 4th gear on my NP435 will grind when you
>go for it, it seems worst when warm. It doesn't do it all the time. When
>it does it you have to double clutch and it will go in. It also seems
>like when you pull back from third at neutral the 4th gear notch will be
>just a little toward the left from straight back. I don't have any whine
>or anything else. Any ides?
>Ballinger

Looks like two possible problems. Your gear grinding and double clutching
sounds like a worn fourth gear syncrho. And the fact that it gets worst
when it warms up adds to this assumption. Your "missplaced" fourth gear
could be caused by a worn shift fork or gate. It's hard to say without
taking a look inside. Perhaps someone else with more experience with this
tranny can shed some light. I do, however, have blowups of the internals
and instructions for dissasembly and for checklng synchro end play. Let me
know if you want a copy.

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mschwall texas.net or mike fordfan.org
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mschwall.home.texas.net
FORD FAN PAGE: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordfan.org

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 07:27:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Barn Project, lift, DONE! :-)

Before I go any further I want to thank you guys and gals for being
so kind to let me talk about my project on these lists. Even though
the plan is primarily to restore trucks with this equipment it's
still slightly off topic but I'm so excited and my family just go "ho
hum" about the whole thing so I have to tell somebody :-)

I put it together last night and it's beautuful! Bright yellow lift
ears and bright blue arms and black, teflon coated posts in the
center of a beautiful new floor. I'll take some pictures and when I
get them all developed I'll send someone some copys to put up on
someones web site so you can all see it.

The contractor said not to sweep the floor but to hose it out after
he used a diamond coated saw to cut the control joints because it
would etch the floor. I work with diamond cutters for a living and
never gave that a thought. Does anyone know anything about this for
sure??

I hosed it down but the stuff just wasn't moving very well so I used
a push broom to move the stuff out the door while keeping it wet. My
experience with cutting mediums makes me believe I did no damage to
the floor this way but there's still a question in my head on this??

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 08:10:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Re: FTE 61-79 - Leaky carbs

> From: RDbanesjr aol.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:59:22 EDT
> Subject: Re: Re: FTE 61-79 - Leaky carbs

> i put in a carb kit with new gaskets and the thing leaked right off
> the bat. i doubled up on the gasket and it worked, atleast up till
> now, two months later it starts leaking again. if the top edge of
> the bowl was slightly warped shoulndt the gaskets make up for that,
> not that i know anything is warped or not.

I've had carbs that couldn't keep the screws tight. Had to go around
every so often and tighten them up or they'd leak or suck air. On
non feed back carbs you can use sealers on the gaskets but you still
have to be carefull not to over do it so as to get stuff in the carb.
I also (gosh this is hard to believe, I know) use anti-seize on the
screws and have even used it to butter the gaskets at times and it
seems to work well for that. You do have to pay attention that the
gasket doesn't goosh out somewhere though when you use a sealer or
lubricant.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 07:16:07 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Edelbrock Cams and Timing

I've read that too. Another caveat that they wrote of, was that errors
exist when using .050 timing figures. I read this yesterday after
posting these numbers. Last night I used their cam math calculator and
came up with a whole different cam.

I used the 360 to simulate:

>The numbers posted with .050 figures:
> Straight Up: 407lbs.ft. 2500-3000rpms 316hp 4500rpm
>
> - -8 degrees: 398lbs. ft. 3500(it made 392 at 2000 and still made 396 at
> 4000) 339 hp 5000rpm
>
> - -12 degrees: 388 lbs ft 3500 (didn't drop below 380lbs ft from 2000 to
> 4500rpms) 342 hp 5000 rpm

Using seat to seat converted timing figures:

Straight-up: 395lbs. ft 4000prms 354hp 5000-5500

- -8 degrees: 382lbs.ft 4500rpms 365hp 5500

- -12 degrees: 372lbs. ft. 4500 rpms 361 5500

I also advanced it 4: 396lbs. ft 3500 347 5000

That's a heckuva difference wouldn't you say? The latter figures are
what I expected in the first place. My guess is that the balancer has
slipped or something on mine. I just ran a 390 and came up with:
Straight up: 417lbs. ft 3500 356hp 5000. From the seat of the pants
this is what mine is doing every bit of. My brother-in-law says that
Edelbrock is full of B.S. Retarding the cam wont change the timing or
the need for it that dramatically. He also said that he's put on three
of their intakes and made calf-sh*t in the oil pan! The carb
installation kits are so incomplete that you'd better be a pack rat to
have all of the hardware necessary! I hate to but when I rebuild I guess
that my '65 T-bird intake(it's been waiting for it's engine to come back
for a long time)will go on. Iron-A**-S.O.B. but at least you can trust
it. I still think that my slow reacting vacuam signal is because of an
internal vacuam leak in that intake. I'm also going with a stock 390GT
cam. No better street cam for the FE, even in a truck!

> one thing about the desktop dyno, right from the Desktop dyno book, is that
> there is alot of error in the calculations at the first rpm point because
> of broad assumptions. that error is supposed to be out by about 3000-3500
> if i remember correctly, but at 2500 it is still there. so watch out with
> these torque cams on this program.
>
> although what you show here looks like the proper results from retarding a
> cam, it is just a warning.
>
> i have seen some really funky curves from that program at the bottom end
> when trying to find what that program sees as the "perfect" cam for an
> engine.

- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:05:25 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear End

> From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:49:49 EDT
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Rear End

> most of the truck limited slips are refered to as track locks,unless

If I'm not mistaken the dana is a "Trac Loc" and the ford OEM is a
"Traction Lock", not that it really matters. This is how I remember
it :-)

> spin,use a detroit locker,but some people consider them agrivating
> for street use,i have a locker in the rear of my 78 4x4 and i love
> it,i have a track lock in the front.

In southern climates the Detroit locker will work well all year and
certainly off road but the problem with these lockers up north where
we encounter slippery surfaces is that in a turn you only have one
wheel doing all the work so you lose traction too easily which causes
more skidding and control problems than the LS types or open diffs
(preferable for Ice) and if it should happen to lock and not unlock
quickly there is another sudden jerk in the operation which can
loosen the bite of one or the other tire.

With a little fussing with the brake I can go almost anywere with a
LS that a Detroit can go but since mine is a daily driver I don't
want the drawbacks mentioned above on the highway. Granted, I could
drive a locker in MI all year and make it work but in the winter an
open diff or LS works better.

Bottom line is you need to asses your needs and resources and
determine where you are willing to compromise and this will determine
what you get. No one can really tell you what you "need" because we
don't know what you're willing to put up with (or do without) to have
it.

I drive on the ragged edge on ice and snow and wet surfaces and I
drive too fast in fog as well so any mistake or unforseen obsticle
becomes life threatening so I want all the control I can get which is
why the above details are important to me and why I keep pointing
them out to new members :-) Don't misunderstand.....I'm not an
animal or flagrant speeder, I just like to go 60 mph no matter what
the conditions are but I do use some discretion. Sometimes it just
isn't prudent to go that fast but it's ALWAYS my goal :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:14:53 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Edelbrock Cams and Timing

> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 07:16:07 -0500
> From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Edelbrock Cams and Timing

> Using seat to seat converted timing figures:
>
> Straight-up: 395lbs. ft....

---

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