61-79-list-digest Tuesday, June 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 336



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Bad Vibrations
FTE 61-79 - 470ci? Mexican block?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Kingpins on '77 F150
Re: FTE 61-79 - 470ci? Mexican block?
FTE 61-79 - Re: Steering Wheel
FTE 61-79 - Gages
FTE 61-79 - 79 f250 4x4 for sale
FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE 61-79-Seats
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Club Chapters
Re: FTE 61-79 - Gages
FTE 61-79 - Re: Glass in the dash...
FTE 61-79 - Cylinder Head ID
Re: FTE 61-79 - Kingpins on '77 F150
FTE 61-79 - MID - AFT FUEL GUAGE WIRING & PLUMBING
FTE 61-79 - Re: Rollover
Re: FTE 61-79 - Cylinder Head ID
FTE 61-79 - Re: Rollover
FTE 61-79 - Re: lowering Twin I-Beams
FTE 61-79 - RE:Lowering
FTE 61-79 - Re: Which V8 is it?
FTE 61-79 - Home made tool of the month club.
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Which V8 is it?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Saw Ken's letter to Classic Trucks.
FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and timing?
FTE 61-79 - Barn project and Moab :-) :-(
Re: FTE 61-79 - Was 400 timing now FE
Re: FTE 61-79 - NP-205 Rebuild
Re: FTE 61-79 - sweet deal!!! score!!
RE: FTE 61-79 - Cylinder Head ID

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:29:00 -0400
From: "Don & Teresa Neighbors"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Bad Vibrations

Sunday night I was chatting with somebody who calls himself "FordBoy",
whose 300 has a bad vibration. I got booted out, and I had an idea about
your vibration problem about the time I went to sleep!
A couple of possibilities: (1) The input shaft of the transmission is bent
slightly; (2) Your pilot bearing is worn out, or is the wrong one. I
considered the possibility the tranny's mainshaft bearings are bad, but you
would only feel that if the truck was in gear, and I'm assuming the
transmission is new or rebuilt anyway.
Something else to consider. Good luck with your vibration problem!

Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover
(Normally found on the Pre '61 list!)
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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 21:19:07 -0400
From: "THE PAVIES'"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 470ci? Mexican block?

*Saw this ad while at Carlisle All-Ford:
* Ford Big Block 470 CI, never
* run, high torque motor built
* by Precision Performance,under
* warranty, $1700. 215-672-8077.
* Willow Grove, PA
*
* Also, anybody ever heard of a "302 MEXICAN block"? Saw an ad for 1.
* Jack P.
*
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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:24:29 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Kingpins on '77 F150

>I have a '77 F150 2wd which I am trying to replace the kingpins.
>I have everything off of the steering knuckle and the locking bolt
>that holds the spindle bolt (or kingpin) in place is out too, and I cannot get
>them driven out. Chilton says to drive out from the top of spindle.
>I figure that I-beams at the spindle will have to be heated, but will
>this pose any threat to the I-beam or alignment procedures in the
>future? I have tried everything from the hammer and drift to the air
>hammer and a tool used to straighten small bends in unibodies.
>Great to be back in the mix fellas!! Thanks for any ideas!

I had a hell of a time gettin the kingpins out of my '71. I beat on
them until I thought my arm would fall off. I heated them some with a
torch, but was careful as I'm a little nervous about heating the I-beam
too much... They didn't budge.
I finally took some 5/8"thick x 4"wide flat bar and welded up a rectangular
frame about 18" high, 6" wide, and 4" deep. I torched a hole in the center
of the top plate (about 1-1/8" I think).

This homade "press frame" hangs over the end of the I beam with the hole
centered over the top of the kingpin. I set a 5 ton hydraulic bottle jack
on the bottom plate of the frame, put a short hunk of pipe between the top
of the jack and the king pin and used the jack to press the kingpins out.
This little home made press also works good to press u-joints in and out
of Your driveshaft...

If You know someone who can weld up the pieces for You, it'll save You
a bundle of misery doing those kingpins.

I don't have any photos of the device, but I drew a picture of the press
frame and put it at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/show-n-tell/press02.jpg


Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:50:00 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 470ci? Mexican block?


>* Also, anybody ever heard of a "302 MEXICAN block"? Saw an ad for 1.
>* Jack P.

Some of the 302 blocks were cast in Mexico. They are supposed to be
a somewhat beefier casting in some critical areas and stronger than
the regular 302 block. Some folks say the iron used in them is different
and they aren't really much/any stronger than the regular block.
I personally dunno, I've no experiance with them...
To identify one, remove the intake manifold and look in the lifter valley
area for the words "Hecho en Mexico" cast into the block.

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 21:40:14 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Steering Wheel

> Marko,

I am still catching up on the posts, but if you are still looking for a way to
strip down to the plastic then get ye over to yonder model railroad shop. The
local huff and puff should have what you need. They have all sort of things used
on PLASTIC model railroad cars. Get the idea? Some shops have whats called a
sonic cleaner too. Sort of a small bathtub shaped device with a special liquid
for stripping PLASTICs.

- -=DENNIS=-

> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:13:14 -0700
> From: Marko Maryniak
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Att. Gary Bowling
>
> Gary (and anybody else reading this post)
>
> I am doing a frame up on my truck, a 67 mercury body on a 71 f250 4x4 frame
> with 410 merc (okay, okay). The color scheme is wimbledon white with black
> dash pad, salt and pepper seat (out of a stock 69) black trim around dash,
> black door arm rests, black column, and black wheel. (BTW the lettering on
> the tailgate will be dark grey, black is too harsh).
>
> Anyway, the wheel from my 67 is perfect, but as Ford was prone to do, it
> has been painted. It was molded in black plastic, then painted red, then
> green (the 67 used to be holly green with green dashpad). So, I want to
> make it black again, by removing the paint and polishing up the plastic
> (since it was painted, it has never lost its richness to UV rays!). I was
> thinking about the best way to remove the paint. I tried glass beading a
> spot but the bead just bounced off. I tried a bit of thinners and they
> worked, but that would probly do some serious damage to the plastic
> underneath. I was thinking stripper may work but with the same problem of
> stripping out the oils in the plastic underneath. What about sanding? is
> that what you did? What papers did you use? Can you send me some info?
>
> The next question is, how do I buff it back to shininess, if I do sand it?
> Can you help with some directions? I know how to do a lot of things
> (mechanically and prep-bodywork), but fine finishing is not one of my
> strong points yet.
>
> Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Anything I can do in
> return, please don't hesitate to ask.
>
> marko in vancouver
> marko dsm.ca
>



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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:47:47 -0500
From: "Wade Keller"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Gages

All of this talk about painting gages has me wondering. Can you buy a
replacement gage for a 78 F150 instrument panel. The ammeter in my truck
stays to the charge side even while the ignition it turned off.

If it can't be replaced, can it be adjusted. The gage works because you can
see it deflect slightly to the discharge side when you first crank the
engine, but doesn't move after that. As it is now, I wouldn't know if I
threw a belt or not.

Every 78-79 that I have found in the salvage yards have the instrument panel
already removed. Was this a problem with this year model truck?

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:36:08 -0500
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 79 f250 4x4 for sale

>has been a consistant 2nd or 3rd place truck,yes even with a 351m

Thanks Jeff!
That made my day, I know Dave R. is out there somewhere smiling.

later,
Dale C
79 f150 351M

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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 21:51:01 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: FTE 61-79-Seats

> Jay,

I will give you my grey bucket seats, welded brackets, bolts, female adapter for
seat belts, etc. if you can find me a bench seat in grey or white and preferably
power adjustment. I am across the river from Shreveport, Louisiana. I need to
have three people in the cab with me. My wife (who doesn't care about the truck),
my six yearold (who loves to ride in the truck), and I. I is over six foot and
needs more leg room.-=DENNIS=-

>
>
> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:44:36 PDT
> From: "Jay Branscome"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Seats
>
> Need some information. I want to put bucket seats in my 65 F100. Anyone
> out there who has BTDT can you give me some suggestions. Pretty much
> looking for something that I can bolt in and still be comfortable
> sitting in daily. Have an abundance of salvage yards here with newer
> stuff but they dont let you find what you need. You have to be escorted
> so you dont steal anything. Damn I miss Ohio.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jay B. 1965 F-100 Custom Cab Long Bed
>
> JBMAN100 Hotmail.com
>



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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:07:04 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Club Chapters

At 06:57 PM 6/8/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>This is really directed at Ken and keep in mind the server has gotten ahead of me
>on keeping up with the digests so if this has been suggested please forgive. But,
>if we are a club, shouldn't we organize into chapters by state? I think the idea
>of a get together is a great idea, but I see people suggesting all sorts of
>locations.

We aren't an official club, as in incorporated as a not for profit. I've been
looking into this and have some help from some list members. Its going to take
a lot of time and we need to take it slow - lots of legal ramifications.

When I have some solid information I'll let the list know. In the meantime,
don't worry, we do plan on organizating eventually.

Regards,
Ken Payne

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 23:16:32 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Gages

- ----------
> From: Wade Keller
> All of this talk about painting gages has me wondering. Can you buy a
> replacement gage for a 78 F150 instrument panel. The ammeter in my truck
> stays to the charge side even while the ignition it turned off.
>
> If it can't be replaced, can it be adjusted. The gage works because you
can
> see it deflect slightly to the discharge side when you first crank the
> engine, but doesn't move after that. As it is now, I wouldn't know if I
> threw a belt or not.
>
> Every 78-79 that I have found in the salvage yards have the instrument
panel
> already removed. Was this a problem with this year model truck?


Well awhile back we had several threads on this very subject, seems the
shunt which enables the ammeter to work is not of the correct
ressistance..and in this factory configuration the gauge doesn't really
work as an ammeter should. Did this fix ever get posted to the website as
a tech article ??? someone? If not could whoever out there who has the fix
please post it again and please, please prepare it for posting on the
website???

I have several instrument panel clusters, if you end up needing a new
ammeter let me know, I'm sure I can be convinced of letting one go to good
use. I have been helped in this manner on this list and I have no problem
in keeping the tradition alive... :)

Where do you live, maybe I'm the guy that bought all those clusters from
those trucks.... :) sorry

John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !


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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 22:33:17 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Glass in the dash...

Like a fool making some adjustments in the sheetmetal to hold more guages around the
odometer of my '65 I cracked the glass in two unequal pieces. You know the 6 inch round
glass?. Talk about being #$% $ mad. I removed the glass which was originally held in place
with a black adhesive and went on down to the cheapest picture frame shop in town. I can
have a replacement piece of glass tomorrow, cut to the exact size as the original, for a
grand total of a $1.67 plus tax.

So for you guys with cracked glass in your dash you now have a cheap way to replace it.
Lets get it done!

- -=DENNIS=-

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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:28:28 -0500
From: Jim Craig
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cylinder Head ID

Hey, I need some help identifying a pair of heads that I got from the
junkyard to practice my porting on. The fellow said that the 460 heads came
from a '79 Lincoln. The ID is: D8VE-A2A. Does anyone know of a site that
will decode this for me i.e., I want to know the intake and exhaust valve
sizes, along with the cc volume. Thanks!

Jimbo
'77 Supercab
460's Goin To The Shop Tommorrow!!!



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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:20:18 -0700
From: "Jim Cron"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Kingpins on '77 F150

Recently had to replace a stuck king pin on my '74 F-250 camper special. We
hammered, then rested axle on hardwood block on anvil and hammered, used a
press frame with 12 ton jack, gave up, pulled axle, took it down to local
spring shop and watched two clowns fiddle with a huge hydraulic press and
nearly kill themselves, got out of there alive with axle undamaged, ended up
at a really good professional spring shop with a 300 ton press, pin was
removed without damage. I have not personally had much luck driving out the
pins, by the time they need changing mine have usually been pretty well
used.

IMHO, consider pulling the axle and find a GOOD spring shop that does 18
wheeler type work if your efforts are not moving the pin.

Jim Cron




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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:35:39 -0400
From: "."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - MID - AFT FUEL GUAGE WIRING & PLUMBING

June 8, 1998

Is there anyone that can help me hookup fuel gauges to my 2 new =
auxiliary tanks?
I am sitting here with some schematics of 77 and 78's. 1977 was the =
last year there was an in-cab tank, a mid-tank, and an aft-tank =
together. There was a switch on the dash that activated a solenoid to =
select either the mid or the aft tank to draw fuel from.
This same switch is used in 1978 also where there was only two (2) =
tanks to choose from, the mid and the aft. Wiring here is a no brainer =
and the solenoid valve only selects from mid or aft.
My questions are:
A) On the 1977, If the switch on the dash activates the solenoid valve =
and it only selects between the 2 tanks, (the mid and the aft) when does =
fuel get used from the in-cab tank if there is no switch to select it. =
=20
NOTE: I am making a slight assumption here that the solenoid =
valve is a 2-position valve. All the F-series I looked at in the =
boneyards and the two I pulled the mid and aft tanks from all had the =
same solenoid....1-outlet hose going to the pump and 2-inlet hoses going =
to the 2 tanks.
B) Fuel gauge wiring. The same switch that controls the solenoid valve =
to select mid or aft tank also switches the signal from the sending =
units in the mid and aft tanks. The wire from the in-cab tank is shown =
on the schematic to piggy-back on the mid-tank sending unit. If this is =
true, how can you tell how much fuel you have in the in-cab tank as =
compared to the mid-tank at any given time? ? ? Is there any way to =
just read the in-cab level or just read the mid-tank level ? ? ? /

Your comments are anxiously awaited.
Jerry


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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:49:11 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rollover

This is not the first time I have heard of this happening. I saw it once in an
English Ford that skidded out of control on an oil slick in a curve, flipped
spinning through the air and hit a tree 15 feet above ground where the rear bumper
was left stuck. That engine was ruined too, even though the engine comaprtment
was not collapsed..

As far as this little Ch went ...Yes, the mechanic took it apart. The engine
would not turnover. It was siezed. Maybe you thought I was joking when I said it
was found hanging from power lines in the rain?

No.. the mechanic can not buy it. It was a Federal vehicle (undercover) and even
in a destroyed state has to be bid for disposal. So, we disposed of two vehicles
while some Federal employee found his butt in a sling for that one. Think of it
this way.. when I was looking at it not one door, including hood and trunk, could
close properly. The wheels were all flat and out of round and that included the
hubcaps, which I needed for another vehicle. The roof was caved in, no glass
survived, not even the headlights even though the car did not hit anything head
on. Somewhere in that out of control flip/rollover that car hit HARD.

- -=DENNIS=-

> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:02:09 -0400
> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rollover/ bad rods?
>
> Gary writes: >>If he took it apart and found the rods to be bad then some
> other cause would be my first inclination, not the rollover......Anybody
> else ever hear of this?
>
> I agree totally.
>
> Did this guy have a use for the engine himself, by chance??????????
> Sounds like "Bull" to me.
>
> Azie
> Ardmore, Al.
>



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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 01:07:46 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Cylinder Head ID

the d means 1970's,the d8 means 78 model,i'm not sure about the rest.the best
heads to use on a truck or lightly modified engine are as follows:#1 i prefer
the
1972 429 police interceptor heads casting # D2OE-ab they are some what hard to
find.#2 1970 460 head casting # DOVE these are the best for bottom end torque
and a little exhaust porting always helps for more mid and upper rpm torque
and hp.
alot of people think the cj head casting #DOOE-R is the best.which they are if
you're building a engine to make power at high rpm such as drag racing or
truck pulling,
running huge cams,big carbs,and light vehicles.bottom end suffers using these
heads,and they are expensive.
more information than you requested,but i got started and couldn't stop.
jeff grant
griffin,ga
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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 00:17:10 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Rollover

Hey guys I think I got it with the engine thing. The mechanic taking care of our
fleet said" think about it !!" "In the Che8y case the nose end was pointing
straight at the stars. Where was the oil?" In the case of the English Ford he said
"how did it land?" and I replied "upside down!" He said "where was all the oil?"
And in both cases when coming to a rest both engines were still running... sort
of..lopping. Guess the oil pump is dry like that.

- -=DENNIS=-

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 01:07:16 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: lowering Twin I-Beams

I saw an ad in Custom Classic Trucks... instead of offering drop spindles for the early Twin I-beam
trucks they had a new I-Beam kit that took a 45 degree bent. However, it was rather expensive for a
set. If I find the ad again I will post it here.
- -=DENNIS=-

IDate: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:38:57 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - coil springs

>Has anybody lowered a Twin I Beam front end
>by cutting a coil or so out of it?
> My daily driver has expired & I was thinking a
>slightly lowered 61-66 4x2 short bed would be a fine
>companion for my 76 highboy, but I think 61-64 would
> require major surgery to lower. Any thoughts?

If You lower the front of a Twin I Beam with shorter springs it screws
up the camber and will eat the inside edges of the front tires like
they're candy unless You bend the I-beams to get the correct camber again.



Steve

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 01:32:29 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE:Lowering

> Mount your springs under the axles, and if you want more, use lowering blocks.

I should have been clearer, sorry, no blocks on the front, You could
weld a thick perch under the axle though if you are so inclined. On the
'54 we didn't need any more on the front than just mounting the springs
under the axle. We used blocks on the rear though. I hope I cleared up
what I meant.
- --
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 01:40:45 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Which V8 is it?

Well guys I still can't decide whats in this truck. I know its not the original
engine. I have been told its a 302. I have been told its a 289. After cleaning the
junk off the Edelbrock Performa Manifold... its says 289. Is the 289 and 302 using
the same manifold?

I bought the HPBooks "how to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines" and still can't ID the
block. It mentions pulling the pan and looking at the main bearing caps. I don't
want to go to all this trouble just to ID the block. I can't find a casting number
either, but the book doesn't say where externally to look. Also, my Helms says the
"only the302" had the clutch setup the way mine is setup. But in looking at this new
book and the photos it shows of the various engines its hard to tell.

I do know one thing. My fuel pump input and output is reversed from all the
pictures. The book says Ford small blocks are blue. but the HP289 was orange or had
orange markings. My block is all orange and the paint is peeling and cracked. I have
scrapped off some of this paint and found no blue paint underneath.

In another section it mentions pulling the valve cover to look for markings, but this
won't tell if you have an HP289.

This thing has not been tuned up and runs real smooth. Somebody suggested it may have
been balanced. No vibration from the engine.

Is there another way to tell without pulling parts? Where would the external casting
number be found? I should be able to find a C5AE-E on the block somewhere.

- -=DENNIS=-

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:19:18 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Home made tool of the month club.

I was cleaning out the glovebox of the truck this evening and found
my home made steering wheel puller. Sheees, it seems like I'm forever
making some silly tool to get a job done on my truck. That kingpin press
was onother one...
I must have enough home made Ford tools by now to fill a webpage, so
welcome to Steve's "Home made tool of the month club".

I put my home-made steering wheel puller up at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/tools/wheelpuller.htm

I'll try and post a few other tools periodically when I'm in the mood...

Have You got a home made tool You've made to do a Ford truck related job?
Or maybe a store bought tool modified for a different purpose?
Share it with the list!
Take some pictures of it and send 'em to me and I'll put them up
on the "home made Ford tools page". (-:



Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:30:43 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Which V8 is it?

At 01:40 AM 6/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Well guys I still can't decide whats in this truck. I know its not the
original
>engine. I have been told its a 302. I have been told its a 289. After
cleaning the
>junk off the Edelbrock Performa Manifold... its says 289. Is the 289 and
302 using
>the same manifold?

289 and 302 can use the same manifold. Perhaps someone else knows how to tell
them apart, but I don't...
However, the 289 has a 2.87" stroke, and the 302 a 3.00" stroke, which is
plenty different enough for You to check the stroke with a piece of wooden
dowel thru the spark plug hole and see which You have.
This is the only reliable way I know to tell an FE360 from a 390 without
pulling the pan or heads...


Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 06:03:06 PDT
From: "Jay Branscome"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Saw Ken's letter to Classic Trucks.

Ken,
Saw your letter in Classic Trucks. Get ready for lots of traffic. Glad
you got some more exposure

>From: "John Peck"
>To: "Ford Trucks"
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Saw Ken's letter to Classic Trucks.
>Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:50:52 -0400
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>
>Ken,
>
>Get ready for a deluge.
>
>
>John Peck
>johnpeck visuallink.com
>
>== FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 09:13:14 -0700
From: tom
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Edelbrock Cam and timing?

Hi folks,
I have a question about timing a engine with a new cam. The engine is a 360 redone 60 over with the
following cam:

Edelbrock Performer Plus #2106

dur .006" lift Intake 272 exhaust 282
Dur .050" lift Intake 194 exhaust 204

Lift cam Intake .265" exhaust .280"
Lift valve Intake .460" exhaust .480"

Timing at .050 lift
Open Close
Intake 8d ATDC 22d ABDC
Exhaust 37d BBDC 13d BTDC

Centerlines Lobe separation : 100d
Intake centerline: 105d

Now I won't even pretend to know what all this means but here is what my question is.
When I time this engine with a timing light and vacuum disconnected from distributor,
the motor seems to run best at about 20d BTDC. Is this right? Based on the cam specs what should it be
timed at?

Thanks in advance

Tom
Wondering in Reno,NV


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:19:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Barn project and Moab :-) :-(

I opened my big mouth and mentioned the Big Bronco Moab outing to the
truck list and suggested it would be cool for the broncos and ford
trucks to get together there but didn't ask the bronco list
permission to invite them, sorry if that was wrong. I'm on both
lists and can't really see any differance so I just
assumed.........:-( ??

Anyway It looks like I was dreaming out loud now since I blew my
savings on the barn floor ($3822.92) :-( At 10 mpg I doubt if
driving would save me any money and the bird's tranny is almost toast
so I can't drive that either. Found tickets for $188/person but
still have to add hotel and car rental and food to that so probably
need about $1000 throw away money to make it happen. With house
repairs and tranny repairs it's just not likely to get done in time
so I wish you all a happy gathering and remember me cuz I'll be there
in spirit at least :-)

Sour note: took more cement than I budgeted for and nearly killed
myself preparing the floor, wire, rat walls etc.. (4 days, by hand)

Happy note: Lift came out only 1/4" high and was very easy to blend
into the floor level with no noticable taper or hump. It's very
beautiful to look at and I am very pleased with the result. The
floor is 4000 psi in 7 days and umpteen in 28 and 6" thick with wire
reinforcement so I could park a 747 in there and not hurt the floor
:-) Way, Way more than I planned but more is better right?


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:59:43 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Was 400 timing now FE

> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:26:35 -0500
> From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Was 400 timing now FE

> No, I have a good vacuam advance running ported(venturi)vacuam. The
> centrifugalweights are free, and has a very smooth consistant power
> curve (no apparent spikes or flat spots) It runs great, but only
> with all of that timing. I've considered switching to manifold
> vacuam for the advance. I've always run venturi, because my 390's of

Can't remember what I've already told you but unless you have the two
port vac you are probably running "ported" or "timed" vac which is
manifold vac above the throttle plate as opposed to below it which
gives you zero advance at idle and full manifold vac operation above
idle. The purpose I understand has to do with allowing a richer
mixture at idle for less flat spot "off Idle" than you would get with
lean burn engines on manifold vac. In other words, to make it idle
well on manifold vac (roughly 40 degrees) you have to lean it out
quite a bit but at the initial (ported vac) of maybe 12 degrees you
need a richer mixture to idle smoothly so you effectively have a
richer off idle mixture to prevent spark knock as I understand it.

You can offset some of this by increasing the idle speed and then
enriching the mixture to slow it back down. Typically the way the
carb is adjusted is to slow it down and adjust one mixture screw till
it runs fastest (best vacuum or rpm) then adjust the other screw
exactly the same amount and then repeat the steps untill no more
gains can be made. If you run manifold vacuum and use this process
you may experience spark knock off idle under heavy loads (lugging)
where with ported vac you would wind up with a richer mixture at the
same idle speed with this process automatically and would probably
not see as much spark knock under those conditions.

Believe it or not I just put all this togeter from previous
discussions on this and my own experience. If I had ported vac on my
carb I'd check it out but there doesn't appear to be a port for it on
my Holley. Aint it amazing that if you brag loud enough and long
enough on your own hard headed ideas someone will come along and
straighten you out? From what I just said here I believe ported vac
may be the answer to a lot of the ills I've been reading about or it
may just require this method to tune the idle mixture properly with
the setup you already have. Now that the barn is done I just may
have time to start doing what I really want, working on my trucks :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 09:28:43 -0700
From: Marko Maryniak
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - NP-205 Rebuild

At 07:00 PM 08/06/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Idaho Transmission Wharehouse in Idaho Falls Idaho, Rush auto parts
throughout
>east Idaho,
>and Kirkhams autoparts in east Idaho all carry them in stock last I checked.
>Call around to the various parts houses in your area, I'm sure one won't
be hard
>to locate...
>
>BDIJXS aol.com wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of a good parts house that would carry a "complete"
overhaul
>> kit for the NP-205 that includes all of the seals, gaskets, and
bearings? I'm
>> not even sure if such a kit exists.....

Hi Jeff.

What you will find, from most any parts house, is a so-called "complete"
overhaul kit which includes some parts and, notably, not others.

What you get in the overhaul kit is bearings for the shaft retainers,
bearings and races for the idler, seals for everything, and needle bearings
thruout.

What you do NOT get is the following:

2 heavy snap rings
1 light snap ring
2 heavy thrust washers
2 light (bronze coated) thrust washers -- this is what wears out by the way!
2 shift forks (if yours are worn)
2 roll pins to hold shift forks on shift rails
2 detent balls for shift rails

You can re-bearing the thing and slap it back together, but I don't like
re-using snap rings, my shift forks were worn so they rattled on the
clutches (there was about 3/16 of play with my old ones, and maybe 1/32
with the new ones), and the two light thrust washers (on the input/rear
output shaft) were worn and had tabs on them that had broken off.

With the kits the stores sell, it's like redoing an engine but using the
old oil pump, a couple of old main bearings, you get the idea.

You can't buy these parts from Ford anymore though, but you CAN get them
all from D*dge and they work just fine.

Email me privately and I'll set you up.


marko in vancouver
marko dsm.ca

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:36:40 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - sweet deal!!! score!!

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:01:05 -0400 (EDT)
> From: CLARE WATERMAN
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - sweet deal!!! score!!

> i just scored on a great 79 lincoln town car (same as yours, gary?)
> 400, c6, 9" rear (i think) 67,000 original miles!! eats no oil!
> $1250!! only needs a new doorskin on the rear driver side, otherwise

I'm not really into the Lincoln so I don't have a list of sites for
it. Just picked it up for $64 to get the parts out of it for the
bronco but the body is in really good shape. Too bad you don't live
closer I would give you a door but mine's a 78 so it may not be the
same, not sure.

Mine may actually only have 89k on it but it could be 189k too, not
sure. Interior's ragged out and it was owned by a smoker so it
really stinks inside as well. I actually considered restoring it but
gave up on the idea so I can fix up the bronco with those really neat
hydraulic power brakes, 460 and maybe even a C-6 conversion. It may
have a bigger alternator in it too, not sure. It's got drum rear
brakes though, Darn!

Wish I could help you really but can't see shipping stuff like doors,
can you? I may keep the window motors since I believe they are all
the same and may fit my bronco tail gate as well.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:46:41 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cylinder Head ID

1978 heads. 96cc chamber volume unless previously machined. good for low
compression ratios. 2.08/1.66 intake/exhaust valves are stock. will give
almost a 9:1 CR with flat top single eyebrow pistons. other than the
larger chamber volume it is the same as other heads from 1972 on. should....


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