61-79-list-digest Friday, May 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 301



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - 1973 Grill Shell??
Re: FTE 61-79 - 410 Merc
FTE 61-79 - Brazilian Fords
FTE 61-79 - 462
Re: FTE 61-79 - 1973 Grill Shell??
FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question
FTE 61-79 - on switching distributors
FTE 61-79 - Proposed legislation
Re: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question
Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
FTE 61-79 - Carb
Re: FTE 61-79 - California get together
Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question
Re: FTE 61-79 - on switching distributors
Re: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors
FTE 61-79 - California get-together
Re: FTE 61-79 - Proposed legislation
FTE 61-79 - RE:462
FTE 61-79 - Leaky carb

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:28:09 -0400
From: "Bryce T. Beyler"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1973 Grill Shell??

JC Whitless...er Whitney sells one for 73-77 trucks for $159.95, "bright anodized
aluminum". Not used, but an option if you can't get a good used one...they have
the grill also ($29.95 for a right or left section). Would the '79 grill and
assorted front chrome parts work in the '74 body??

Bryce

FORDTRKNUT wrote:

> Hello, I have just finished swapping the body of my cousins 1974 F-250 4x4
> over onto a 1979 F-350 4x4. I am looking for a good used outer grill shell
> (the aluminum part) for it.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:30:52 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 410 Merc

> From: am14 chrysler.com
> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:43:49 -0400
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 410 Merc

> Did you lay the main bearings in the block and notice the
> misalignment and correct this as well as drill the oil passage from
> the filter to the center galley to a larger passage????

I read somewhere that the misalignment was deliberate? The purpose
being to control the flow to the cam but in the FE engine I
understand the oil goes to the cam first so the crank then would need
all it's holes as open as possible in that case?

Both the windsor and 460's I've looked at had this misalignement and
always about the same amount so it makes sense to me but what do I
know?? Seems like even the cleveland had it too?

Do Ch**ys have this misalignment?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:52:25 -0500
From: "Don Yerhot"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brazilian Fords

I checked out a pretty cool book from the library last night titled 53
- -67 Ford Trucks.
In it they had pictures of some different Ford trucks that I didn't know
existed, like Mercury trucks made in Canada, and Ford trucks made in
Brazil. It looked like Ford shipped down it's old parts to make some of
these Brazilian units. The 60 model used a 53-56 cab with a 57 box. The
62 looked like a 59 with a bizarre looking grille.
On a completely different subject, I had the machine job down the
street prep my 351W block for me, bored .030, new cam bearings, pressed
in new brass freeze plugs, and press the Kieth Black Silvolite pistons
onto the rods. Even though he did a good shop on everything else, the
bonehead put the pistons on backwards! I guess that what happens when
you work on too many chebby's. Oh well, he's gonna take care of it for
me, was pretty embarrased about it.

Don
Richfield, MN
65 F250
Soon to be: 85 Ranger with a 400 horse 351W/C6

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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:04:53 -0500
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 462

>>I have a question. at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blake.com/oemcarbs/ford.htm they say
>>the '68 Lincoln with a 462 cu.in. engine has a carb TYPE/BBL C-4-AFB OEM
>># C8VF-C, D, E . What is a 462? I've never seen one. Also is this a
>>Carter AFB? I couldn't find the 4100 on anything lots of 4300s.
>>
>The 462 is a later derivative of the 430 Lincoln otherwise known as the
>Mercury Turnpike Cruiser. The cylinder heads have flat decks with no
>cumbustion chamber( Heron design, I think it's called) I remember a guy from
>when I was but a tyke who shoehorned one into a '57 Ford Fairlane. Ruined
>the front end, since the engine weighs about 800 lbs. I'm not sure but I
>think it all started with the 317 which was Ford's real first OHV.
>
The 239 was Ford's first OHV, debuting in 1954 I think. There was also a
239 flathead. The 239 OHV, known as the Y-block, was also had in 272, 292,
and 312 cubic inches from Ford. Mercury and Lincoln did have some larger
engines based on this design, but I think the largest Turnpike Cruiser
Y-block was the 368, wasn't it? The 430 was of FE design I bet. I never
heard of the 462, either.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:18:40 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1973 Grill Shell??

FORDTRKNUT wrote:

> Hello, I have just finished swapping the body of my cousins 1974 F-250 4x4
> over onto a 1979 F-350 4x4. I am looking for a good used outer grill shell
> (the aluminum part) for it. I believe that the 1973-1977 grill shell is the
> same...am I correct?? The body was stripped down to the bear metal and we
> painted it School Bus Yellow. Yuck!!! My cousin likes it.....I don't!!! I
> also swapped the 351M over to a 460 and it looks great!!! The only problem I
> came across was that I had to remove 7/16" off the spacer between the
> alternator and the block. No big deal though...I just chucked it up in my
> lathe & faced it off. I fired it up open headers (the in chassis type) and my
> cousin yelled "Its Alive....ALIVE!!". My neighbors just love me.... I can
> feel the love in the air!! Well hope you can help me out!!! Wayne Grabley
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Wayne: Dennis Carpenter sells them new for $180. Some Ford dealers still have
them also.

Regards
John

78 F250 4x4 Supercab

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:32:02 -0400
From: Mark Goods
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question

I have a new brake master cylinder to put on my 68 F100. I've been told to
"bench bleed"the cylinder before putting it on the truck. I don't own a
vice or anything to hold it while I bleed it. Can some of you please tell
me other ways to bleed the cylinder, perhaps while mounted on the truck.
Thanks in advance.


Mark



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:36:55 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - on switching distributors

Chuy, there is one more thing to consider beyond Deacon's excellent
guidance. When you line up the timing marks, it is possible to get the
distributor in back a**wards. This won't happen unless you aren't careful.
If everything looks right, but instead of running the engine acts like it
wants to hit but won't start and backfires, then try moving the wires
around four posts on the distributor. The reason for this is that the
ignition marks on the crank line up on #1 and on the fifth cylinder in the
firing order, but the distributor only lines up right every other engine
revolution. If you do it the way Deacon says, everything will be OK. If
you're like me, you get some unexpected help like a neighbor who says,
"What's this for?" and picks up something that was laid down just so so for
a reason.

BTW I can spell Texas when I don't stumble over the keyboard.

I can't believe all of the QJet lovers. I have rebuilt many with great
success. The most fun I ever had was with a real obnoxious guy who wanted
his carb rebuilt. I took it all apart, then told him, "Well I hope I can
remember how this all goes back together." I thought he was going to wet
his pants. How many years and what's the fine for putting one on a '79?
I've got an adaptor around here somewhere...


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
Macintosh G3/233 minitower (When speed counts, count on Macintosh)
1979 MC under restoration (my son is rebellious, but he loves old cars!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:39:29 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Proposed legislation

Hey John,

I've been on the post office wall for so long already anyway.....

Do you have any details on that proposed bill about the altered vehicles
(such as number, etc.)? I'll be sure to check in with my congressman......

Thanks!

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:51:12 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors
> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:32:31 -0400

> For about 6 yrs, i have spent my own money but now i have decided to
> try to get some sponsors to help, and become more competitive.
>
> does anyone have information, experience, or ideas on how to get
> information needed to make this happen. i can get my foot in the
> door with a few businesses, but from there i am lost.

Our local Late model guys have all manner of local business support,
even grocery stores etc.. It's not much fun but the best way to get
local sponsors is to build a portfolio including some of your best
action pictures and maybe a trophy or two and go door to door (Maybe
you could hire a Jehova's Whitness to do the foot work for
you...........:-)) and show them where on your truck you can put
their logo so it will be easy to read and act as a good advertisement
for them.

Some sponsors do it just to be a part of something exciting but most
want advertising for their contribution so they can write it off and
may have a side interest in the excitement as well from what I've
noticed.

Some racing guys mentioned having a light colored vehicle so the
logo's show up well in photos. Nothing grabs a sponsors attention
like his logo standing out on the side of your truck in a picture in
the news paper with a big trophy next to it :-)

I doubt if there is much support from Ford for this, they are only
interested it promoting NEW trucks but some parts OEM's may be
interested if you can show them you are successfull. I wish you
success and when you figure it out let the rest of us know so we can
do it too :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:45:00 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question

From: Mark Goods
>I have a new brake master cylinder to put on my 68 F100. I've been told
to
>"bench bleed"the cylinder before putting it on the truck. I don't own a
>vice or anything to hold it while I bleed it. Can some of you please
tell
>me other ways to bleed the cylinder, perhaps while mounted on the
truck.

Install it then bleed it before connecting the lines. That's the easiest
way IMHO.

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:47:20 -0400
From: "Ron"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462

A friend named CB Adams and I rebuilt this 239 in a 1954 Ford when I was
16 years old. It was an OHV engine and not a flat head. A real strong
engine for the size. It was a neighbor that owned it and original owner
too. He said no work had been done to the vehicle at the time. Garage
kept and a good find then. He had a 239 flathead for a 1949 that he gave
me the choice of and I took the 239 OHV because its design. Just looked
better under the hood to me.

Ron

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
> Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 4:14 AM
>
> > From: "Ron"
> > Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 462
> > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:48 -0400
>
> > I thought the 239 V8 was the first OHV engine?
>
> 239 and 329 (as I recall) are flat heads one a ford the other a
> lincoln and truck engine. First over head valve I know of was the
> 272, then 292 then 312. Sounds like the 430 and 462 were "Y" block
> motors based on the 272 technology??
>
> 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
> 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
> 78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
> -- Gary --
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:00:38 -0600 (MDT)
From: Charlie Mear
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Carb

>Tom writes:>> Plus when the fuel pump pressurizes the carb it leaks
>around the top.

>Classic case of either one of two things. The float level is set too high
>or the needle is not closing off in the seat.

>Take it apart again. Blow thru the inlet while moving the float with one
>of your fingers. Does it completely shut off?? or does it continue to
>leak air by when supposedly closed?? Is the float about level with the
>plane of the carb when it shuts off?? Adjust it by the instruction sheet.
>You should be able to correct this.

Also check the fuel pump pressure. If your pressure is higher than the
specs for the carb, the needle could intermittantly fail to shut off.
Easily solved with fuel pressure regulator.

Charlie
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:59:31 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - California get together

> From: Deacon

>you don't put a
> manic depressive in charge of fun Friday. It's just not a >wise thing to
> do. They can help, but if their in charge and things go >wrong, there's a
> good chance they'll be spotted in a high place with a high >powered
> weapon. So that makes me a helper! :)

I'm not too worried unless you convince Steve to teach you his skill of
designing complex electronic circuits... Then I wouldn't open any packages
as doorprizes.... :)


John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver " Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:06:35 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question

> From: Mark Goods
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brake master cylinder question
> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:32:02 -0400

> I have a new brake master cylinder to put on my 68 F100. I've been
> told to "bench bleed"the cylinder before putting it on the truck. I
> don't own a vice or anything to hold it while I bleed it. Can some
> of you please tell me other ways to bleed the cylinder, perhaps
> while mounted on the truck. Thanks in advance.

Buy a short piece of brake line and cut it in half. Also get any
adapters you need to screw it into the master cylinder ports. Bend
the tubing so it curls back into the resivoir almost to the bottom,
one for each port, fill the resivoir after installing it on the truck
and using short quick movements pump the brake pedal and occasionally
go all the way to the floor (do this part slowly so it doesn't
splash all your fluid out). Do this for several minutes and you
should feel a change in the pedal when it starts pumping pure fluid
but if not just do it for as long as your leg holds up and try
hooking it up and bleeding the system. You may need to do it
several times before you get it all out.

One caution, the MC MUST BE LEVEL for this to work so if you have the
kind that's on an angle in the truck you need to jack up one end or
the other to get it level first.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:15:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - on switching distributors

> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:36:55 -0500
> From: "John LaGrone"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - on switching distributors

> Chuy, there is one more thing to consider beyond Deacon's excellent
> guidance. When you line up the timing marks, it is possible to get
> the distributor in back a**wards. This won't happen unless you

Here's my shortened version: Take the cap off noting the position of
the #1 wire relative to the distributor housing and rotate the engine
with remote or ratchet and socket till the rotor gets close to this
locaton and then look at the timing marks and move the crank a few
degrees till they are exactly where you want the timing to be, not
TDC, and the rotor is where the #1 wire should be.

Don't move the engine now till you are all done and back together and
there is no way you can mess up. Just put the dizzy back in with the
rotor in the same place it is now and you are there with a small
adjustment (by rotating the dizzy housing) to line up the star with
the rectangle on the pickup (exactly centered on it). This is called
static timing and if your distributor is properly curved will be
exactly on the money when you put a light on it. I
guaaaaaaraaaaaaaanteeeeeeeeee :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:20:09 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors

I know in drag racing they have contingency money that's paid if you win
and you have the right decals on your vehicle. Companies like Holly,
Hooker, Summit, etc. all pay different amounts for different classes if you
have their decals on your rig. You might want to check into that also. It
ain't sponsorship but it helps pay some of the bills.

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors
> Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 4:51 AM
>
> > From: Sleddog
> > Subject: FTE 61-79 - getting sponsors
> > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:32:31 -0400
>
> > For about 6 yrs, i have spent my own money but now i have decided to
> > try to get some sponsors to help, and become more competitive.
> >
> > does anyone have information, experience, or ideas on how to get
> > information needed to make this happen. i can get my foot in the
> > door with a few businesses, but from there i am lost.
>
> Our local Late model guys have all manner of local business support,
> even grocery stores etc.. It's not much fun but the best way to get
> local sponsors is to build a portfolio including some of your best
> action pictures and maybe a trophy or two and go door to door (Maybe
> you could hire a Jehova's Whitness to do the foot work for
> you...........:-)) and show them where on your truck you can put
> their logo so it will be easy to read and act as a good advertisement
> for them.
>
> Some sponsors do it just to be a part of something exciting but most
> want advertising for their contribution so they can write it off and
> may have a side interest in the excitement as well from what I've
> noticed.
>
> Some racing guys mentioned having a light colored vehicle so the
> logo's show up well in photos. Nothing grabs a sponsors attention
> like his logo standing out on the side of your truck in a picture in
> the news paper with a big trophy next to it :-)
>
> I doubt if there is much support from Ford for this, they are only
> interested it promoting NEW trucks but some parts OEM's may be
> interested if you can show them you are successfull. I wish you
> success and when you figure it out let the rest of us know so we can
> do it too :-)
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 98 9:20:00 -0700
From: "SGT CHRISTOPHER S DENSON"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - California get-together

Ken & Deacon,
If you need help putting this together, let me know. I'm in San Diego and
would love a FTE get-together in SoCal. My 67 F100 seems to be the only
restored one around here. It would be great to meet other people with the
same interests.
Chris

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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:49:37 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Proposed legislation

BDIJXS wrote:

> Hey John,
>
> I've been on the post office wall for so long already anyway.....
>
> Do you have any details on that proposed bill about the altered vehicles
> (such as number, etc.)? I'll be sure to check in with my congressman......
>
> Thanks!
>
> Colorado Jeff

This might be a good time to jump in here by everybody interested in the
automotive hobby. If we could get the bill numbers and addressed and/or
email address of the local and state leaders for Colorado and send
constructive, let me repeat that "CONSTRUCTIVE" letters letting them know
that not only are the people of their state watching them but across the
nation eyes are upon them. Any letter is better than none at all even if it
is from out of state, hey it can't hurt.

There is enough span and hate mail already on the net so please keep that key
word in perspective.

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacific.net/~duckdon

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:39:23 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE:462

>I thought the 239 V8 was the first OHV engine?

No, the 317 OHV V8 was introduced by Lincoln in 1952. The 239 OHV V8 came
out in 1954. The 317 saw duty in luxobarges and mediuum to heavy duty Ford
trucks fron '52-'55. The key differences between the Lincoln engines and the
Y-block(I'm certain that at some point they were related) is the head
design, and the overall size of the engine, the Lincoln being much bigger.

The heads on the Lincoln as stated before have no cumbustion chambers in the
head. The pistons provide it. The Heron design provides great cumbustion
efficiency, but trades off flow ability and rpm capability due to the big
ungainly pistons.

The Y-block had a few weaknesses too. The intake port design for one. The
displacement to weight ratio was still bad. The FE was about to emerge as
the R&D answer to all needs. But as good truck workhorses the Y-blocks were
the best of their day, that is until the FE came on. They were really
long-lived, and could pull a load.

The Lincoln engine family died out in the mid-sixties. Ironically they
outlasted the Y-block. They were about the quietest smoothest engine Ford
ever made, but a new kid in town was almost as quiet and smooth and made a
lot more power, the 460.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:53:30 EDT
From: RDbanesjr
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Leaky carb

i got a quick question for all of ya'll that know a thing or two about carbs.
the auto choke carb i did have on the 240 had a serious vac leak plus the bowl
was craked so i replaced it with a manual choke carb from a junk yard (had to
get by as cheap as i could before the wife cut off my funds). after cleaning
and insp and a carb kit i put the "new" carb on. first thing i notied was....


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