61-79-list-digest Friday, September 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 443



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
RE: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
Re: FTE 61-79 - new motor up and running
FTE 61-79 - bounce
FTE 61-79 - Cooling based question
FTE 61-79 - FE balance
Re: FTE 61-79 - Spray Guns
FTE 61-79 - Brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
RE: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
FTE 61-79 - Silly newbie timing question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Cooling based question
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution
FTE 61-79 - stuck intake manifold
Re: FTE 61-79 - new motor up and running
Re: FTE 61-79 - stuck intake manifold
FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
FTE 61-79 - Bouncing
FTE 61-79 - Rear axle bouncing at 45mph
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution
FTE 61-79 - Mike Orendorf [morendorf uswest.net]
FTE 61-79 - wheel bounce
FTE 61-79 - brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution
Re: FTE 61-79 - wheel bounce
Re: FTE 61-79 - Paint Spray Guns
Re: FTE 61-79 - Power brake booster + master cylinder

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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:15:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz

you are going down the road and the engine is running very well but wants to
cut out occasionally. It runs fine when cold but seems to cut out at some
arbitrary point after warming up. Now this goes on for two days and you're
thinking the dadburned Holley is gotten loose again and letting air in which
explains the back firing but not the cutting out right? So you figure the dang
vac is sticking again and not retarding the spark, then as you are pulling up to
a stop sign with all these ideas going through your head it quits alltogether for
several feet and suddenly the whole neighborhood is lit up by the fire ball
rolling out from under the truck from a HUGE after fire and the engine quits
and won't re-start but occasionally fires.

What the H**l happened? BTW, I know what happened and it only took 2
min to fix but take a wild guess as to the condition of my relatively new
muffler :-(


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:29:53 -0500
From: "Bob Brothers"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz

Well, I completely destroyed a new muffler in my
AMC Pacer (HEY I'VE GOT WIERD TASTE, also go a 81 Caddy
Diesel ;|) after putting in a new engine and not having
the distributer rotar installed. Kept pumping the gas
and cranking. Then I remembered. Put rotar back in.
Crank ..... BOOM!

Maybe stuck float?

Bob Brothers


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Gary, 78 BBB
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 1998 2:16 AM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com; bigbroncos moab.off -road. com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
>
>
> you are going down the road and the engine is running very well
> but wants to
> cut out occasionally. It runs fine when cold but seems to cut
> out at some
> arbitrary point after warming up. Now this goes on for two days
> and you're
> thinking the dadburned Holley is gotten loose again and letting
> air in which
> explains the back firing but not the cutting out right? So you
> figure the dang
> vac is sticking again and not retarding the spark, then as you
> are pulling up to
> a stop sign with all these ideas going through your head it quits
> alltogether for
> several feet and suddenly the whole neighborhood is lit up by the
> fire ball
> rolling out from under the truck from a HUGE after fire and the
> engine quits
> and won't re-start but occasionally fires.
>
> What the H**l happened? BTW, I know what happened and it only took 2
> min to fix but take a wild guess as to the condition of my relatively new
> muffler :-(
>
>
> 78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
> 78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
> 78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
> 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!
>
> -- Gary --
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:50:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - new motor up and running

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:45:40 EDT
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - new motor up and running

> My dad has been building engines for several years. HE has never gone
> easy on the to break them in. As soon as it fires (after being primed of
> course) he drives em like they had already proven themselves.

I suspect even he breaks in the cams though right? When you first fire an
engine you should check to be sure nothing is wrong and if all is well set the
idle to 2000 rpm and let it run for 20 minutes keeping an eye on the temp and
oil pressure to break in the cam and lifters. If you don't do this you run a
very good chance of ruining the cam prematurely and sometimes it is
amazingly quick. I once lost a cam within a few hundred miles because I
didn't put the followers back in the same place on a used cam. Breaking in a
"new" cam involves exactly the same principle in that the new parts need to
"mate" to each other under controlled conditions with lots of oil etc..
Obviously the worn parts had lots of defects which quickly wore against
each other and destroyed the cam but a new cam is just a lesser degree of
this scenerio so needs the break in.

Moden moly rings if installed in a properly honed cylinder will seal pretty
well immediately but still need some breakin time. If your dad is a
conservative driver then there's no problem but if you get on it hard right
away it will have bad consequences with modern long life rings. He may just
go out and drive it but I bet in the back of his mind he's paying attention to
keep his foot out of it most of the time for 1000 miles or so. Stop and go
driving actually breaks rings in faster than steady state high speed driving as
long as you don't gun it too much.


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:52:37 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - bounce

Colorado Jeff writes: >>I don't mind the rougher ride, but there is a
"bounce" that sometimes seems to occur right around 45 mph. It seems to get
into a resonant mode until I speed up or slow down.

Did this bounce start about the same time as you installed the new tires???
I suspect you have an unbalanced tire someplace. These things can drive
you batty. I can't imagine a drum nor a rotor being heavy enough to have
this type of out of balance effect on your truck. I don't really think the
springs or the stabilizer bar affect it either.

JMHO

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:54:46 -0600
From: Mike Orendorf
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cooling based question

I have an interesting overheating problem, and wondering if somebody has run into this
before.

Heres what I have:
460/C-6 2WD F-100 (3.7 Rear end)
Stock water pump, new 3-core radiator, 2 electric fans

I did the electric fans install some time ago and have been very happy with them, and
this problem is not based upon airflow as you will see.

Here is the problem. This last weekend I drove about 5 hours during the heat of the
day.
For long periods of time on the highway 60Mph / 3200 RPM +, the engine will begin to
overheat. (up to 230degrees). The fans are off. Turning them on does nothing.I even
richened the mixture and retarded the timing. This helped, but only for a short time.

When I slowed down to about 50mph / 2600RPM the engine will cool off back to normal
tempature, 190degrees (Fans on or off) It seems that after 50mph or so, electric fans
serve no purpose.

Also, during one phase of my trip when the truck was running hot (230), I got a chance
to go down a steep hill, and I stuck it in neutral and I was amazed at how fast the
tempature dropped. In less than 20 seconds, it went from 230 down to 190. No
kidding! Engine RPM was at idle of course about 800RPM..

My unproved conclusions, it seems that the higher the engine RPM, the hotter it runs.
What I dont know is why. Its not air flow based, I think its one of following things:

1.Water Pump = junk and is cavitating or otherwise less functional at higher RPM's
2.Engine creates ALOT more heat at higher RPMS, even with low load.
3.Collapsing Intake Hose (I dont think so, all hoses have springs, and I checked them
when revving the engine in Park at high RPMS)
4.It is possible there is air in the system which becomes a problem at high RPM's? If
so, how can I get rid of it?

Anybody have any ideas or comments? I would appreciate it.
Also, I know I need to change the gears in the rear end. 60MPH and 3200 RPM is just
plain overreving a 460 in such a light truck...

Thanks,

Mike, AKA Supermagot

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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:02:46 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE balance

Joe DeL. writes: >>Why 2 differnt balancers???Aren't fE's internally
balanced????

All except the 410 and the 428 are internally balanced. I see no reason
they could not be interchanged. You can try it anyway,, and if you do get
some strange vibs, then you can reinstall the original harmonic balancer
and start looking for pulleys. It should interchange with no ill effects.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:18:25 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Spray Guns

At 02:12 AM 9/11/98 , you wrote:
>I don't think you need a $400 spray gun to paint one truck.100 trucks,
>maybe.
>I painted mine with a Harbor Frieght $29.99 chinese Binks clone and had
>no
>problems at all with the gun.

I agree completely, but I will be painting more than my truck in the
furture. Got to pay for the class (and my core courses for my degree) and
all the tools i had to buy - and the spray gun. While I'm going to school,
I have access to a spray booth.

Quality, quality, quality, not adequate, OK, or at 10 feet it looks good.

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mschwall texas.net or mike fordfan.org
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mschwall.home.texas.net
FORD FAN SITE: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordfan.org

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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:24:25 -0400
From: Mike Elmer
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Brakes

Hi All,Will a disc brake set up from a 73-75 work on my 69 camper
special.If so how much of the front end parts will I need.Thanks in
advance.Also did any one look into the 69 F-500 I posted for sale in
Maine in early September.Thanks again. Mike
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:26:06 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz

At 02:15 AM 9/11/98 , you wrote:
>you are going down the road and the engine is running very well but wants to
>cut out occasionally. It runs fine when cold but seems to cut out at some
>arbitrary point after warming up. Now this goes on for two days and you're
>thinking the dadburned Holley is gotten loose again and letting air in which
>explains the back firing but not the cutting out right? So you figure the
dang
>vac is sticking again and not retarding the spark, then as you are pulling
up to
>a stop sign with all these ideas going through your head it quits
alltogether for
>several feet and suddenly the whole neighborhood is lit up by the fire ball
>rolling out from under the truck from a HUGE after fire and the engine quits
>and won't re-start but occasionally fires.
>What the H**l happened? BTW, I know what happened and it only took 2
>min to fix but take a wild guess as to the condition of my relatively new
>muffler :-(
>-- Gary --

Your getting an overflow of fuel from the bowls. Since it runs fine when
hot and rough when warm, something is being affected by the engine heat.
How new are the needle and seats? The fuel pressure can increase when the
engine is warm from the engine heating the fuel in the fuel line after the
pump causeing the spring in the needle and seat assy. to be overpowered.
Since it is a Holley, it might be gasket related. Retorque the bowl bolts
on front and back. Body, bowls, or metering block could be changing shape
a little from the heat and causing an internet leak. How old are the
gaskets? Is this a dual inlet carb? If so, your secondary floats are set
too high, so when you slow down or go down a hill, fuel runs over into the
venturi.

Just some ideas.

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mschwall texas.net or mike fordfan.org
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mschwall.home.texas.net
FORD FAN SITE: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordfan.org

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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:30:05 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz

From: "Bob Brothers"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz
Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:29:53 -0500

> Maybe stuck float?

Ok, I think I mentioned the Holley and it's working fine, for a Holley which is
one of the clues, fuel build up in the muffler obviously caused the explosion
but what fired it?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:47:41 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Silly newbie timing question

Group:

Something came over me last night (I think its this list, it has this
creative effect ...) and I threw caution to the wind and did the following:

'78 300 I6 (with recently rebuilt the stock carter YF-1A 1bbl carb, new:
plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil) engine starts and runs pretty darn good,
but the idle is a little rough and idle speed and fuel mixture adjustments
only get it better to a point. So, I marked where the distributor was in
relation to the block, loosened the nut and started turning. Amazing,
turned the distributor about 1/64 of a turn counter clockwise (looking at
the engine from the front) and the idle smoothed out perfectly. I didn't
actually get to drive the van after this act, going to do so this evening
to see the effect. Also going to borrow a timing light from a friend to
see what happened analytically.

Could I trouble someone to explain to newbie me what I actually
accomplished with this reckless act of abandon?

John



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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:51:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Cooling based question

Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:54:46 -0600
From: Mike Orendorf
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cooling based question

> Anybody have any ideas or comments? I would appreciate it.
> Also, I know I need to change the gears in the rear end. 60MPH and 3200
> RPM is just plain overreving a 460 in such a light truck...

More rpm is more heat, more BTU's produced. They have to have a way to
get out of there. On 460's the heater inlet and outlets in the manifold, block
and water pump must be connected by an open circuit or you will over heat
before the thermostat opens. Once it's open it may still be required, not sure.

If you have air in the heads it will stay there untill you "burp" the system by
removing the heater hose at the thermostat or manifold untill clear coolant
runs out (engine off). For some reason even the pump can't force these air
pockets out but itself.

IMHO you have too small a radiator, three core or not for your climate. In
Michigan a 351Ho 3 core works well but in hotter climates I suspect it would
be too little for the 460 especially at 3200 rpm!

Try the other options first but I think you will eventually wind up with the
large 78 vintage 4 tube "super cool". Modines number is 545 for this model.
Other companies make this particular design somewhat cheaper so call
around. Dimensions are 26.375 x 24 x 4".

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:04:44 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution

Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:26:06 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz

> >you are going down the road and the engine is running very well but wants
> >to cut out occasionally. It runs fine when cold but seems to cut out at
> >some arbitrary point after warming up.

>Gary --
>
> Your getting an overflow of fuel from the bowls. Since it runs fine when

Ok, so you guys don't get carpel tunnel trying to straighten me out I'll tell you
what happened but I still have a question for Steve: Why would the green
wire going to the module on dura spark II have power on it with key off?
(maybe I lett it on by mistake, not sure now)

First thing I checked was coil mount bolt (coil has to be grounded) then coil
wires (primary) because I suspected an electrical problem but all was Ok.
Because I have a rusty skid plate I checked to make sure the tank hadn't
fallen out then I went directly to the next most troublesome point in the
ignition system...........the dreaded OEM plugs to the module and dizzy and
found this green spark running up and down the green wire to the module
and on further inspection found that the wire seemd to be somewhat limp in
one spot where the spark was originating from so in my infinite wisdom
concluded the wire was broken inside the insulation and pulled the wire
appart, cleaned the insulation off the ends and twisted them back together
and re-started the engine only to hear the exhaust apparenly coming out the
manifolds or very close to them. When I looked under the truck the
relatively new muffler was wide open, nothing left of it that even resembled a
muffler. I've never seen one blow that bad before, WOW!


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:15:29 -0600
From: Jamey Moss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - stuck intake manifold

I'm new to engine disassembling/rebuilding, so I'm coming to you gurus for
help. I'm disassembling my 390 for a rebuild, following Steve Christ's How to
Rebuild Your Big Block Ford Engine book, and I've run into a snag that I was
hoping someone here could help me with. I'm down to the intake manifold, and
that thing won't come off.

I've removed the valve covers, rocker arms, and all 10 intake manifold bolts.
The book says to pry the manifold loose with a pry bar or screw driver between
the manifold and the heads, near cylinders 4 and 8, however I can't get
anything do fit between the manifold and the heads. I've punched the gasket
through where the manifold meets the block, so the only gasket material left
is on the heads, but I'm afraid to really pry in that gap because I don't want
to damage the block.

I've tried setting a 4x4 on the lip of the manifold by the gap I created, then
hammering the 4x4 upwards, but that didn't do anything. I repeated this on
the front of the block and the back, and even wedged some wood in the
thermostat housing hole and popped that up with a hammer, but that manifold
just will not budge. My next guess is to get a wooden wedge (like a door
stop) and hammer that into the gap between the manifold and the block, but
will that work?

FYI, the carburetor and linkages are still on the manifold (I'm not going to
reuse any of these on the rebuilt block, so I was hoping to keep everything
assembled for comparison purposes when I put the new carb on the new
manifold), and I believe the only bolts that hold the manifold on are the 10
manifold bolts. Obviously this is my first time tearing an engine apart, so
is it possible that I'm missing something? This engine has never been apart
(it still had the staples on the valve covers), so is it just really stuck on
there with age?

If anyone has any suggestions on how to pop this manifold loose, please let me
know. I don't want to damage the block or the heads, but I don't really care
about the manifold itself since it's not going to be reused.


Thanks for any help,

Jamey Moss
ra4001 email.sps.mot.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.prismnet.com/~jamey/f100/
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:13:14 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - new motor up and running

In a message dated 9/11/98 5:56:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gpeters3 ford.com
writes:


keep his foot out of it most of the time for 1000 miles or so. >>

Actually no. As soon as he saw his pressures were ok, and it was idling
pretty good we went wheelin, He had this motor turning about 4500 rpms flying
through the dunes. Damn thing sounded like a racecar. Anyone in or near
Vegas is more than welcome to come see this truck in action.

Darrell Duggan aka JUMPINFORD AOL.com
73 F-250 RangerXLT Camper Special
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:22:16 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - stuck intake manifold

When I pulled my intake off I removed the thermostat housing and shoved my
prybar in there. I wasn't worried about damaging it because I have 3 of them
laying in my shop, and I planned on buying a 4bbl manifold from Edelbrock
anyways. But it came off without a problem. Hope this helps.

Darrell Duggan aka JUMPINFORD AOL.com
73 F250 RangerXLT Camper Special
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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:25:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLARE WATERMAN
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: your mail

thanks don for the info this is very helpful



Clare M. Waterman-Storer, Ph.D.
Department of Biology
University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, NC, 27599-3280

T: (919)-962-2354
F: (919)-962-1625


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:34:14 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz

>a stop sign with all these ideas going through your head it quits
alltogether for
>several feet and suddenly the whole neighborhood is lit up by the fire ball
>rolling out from under the truck from a HUGE after fire and the engine quits
>and won't re-start but occasionally fires.
>
>What the H**l happened? BTW, I know what happened and it only took 2
>min to fix but take a wild guess as to the condition of my relatively new
>muffler :-(

The under-the-truck fireball and bulged muffler sounds like an ignition
problem. Ignition dies, exhaust system fills with flammable goods, ign
comes back on, BOOOM!

Maybe a loose wire somewhere? Coil wire loose and dangling around on top
of the distributor cap? Something ign related I'd bet, doesn't sound like
a carb problem...


Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

All that I needed to know in life, I learned by
killing smart people and eating their brains.


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:42:15 -0700
From: Brian Koss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Bouncing

If you can find nothing wrong in the drive line, try changing the shocks to
a stiffer damping ratio. You have increased the mass of the system by going
to the 3/4 running gear which would lower the system natural frequency. you
can try to counter act this by increasing the damping. Does it do it all
the time or just on some roads. If you can find a stretch of road where it
occurs you can use that as your test track to check and ajust the shocks.
Gabrial used to offer adjustable valving in a truck shock. That was 15
years ago though. Don't know what the marketing gimicks are today.


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:42:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear axle bouncing at 45mph

BDIJXS aol.com wrote:

>The bouncing
>seems like its related to the tire rotations, so an out of round tire could be
>it, but wouldn't this just get worse as you go faster?

Nope. At resonant frequency, the tires will oscillate with potentially large magnitudes. On either side of the
resonant frequency, the amplitude of the oscillations drops off rapidly.
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:50:11 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution

>Ok, so you guys don't get carpel tunnel trying to straighten me out I'll
tell you
>what happened but I still have a question for Steve: Why would the green
>wire going to the module on dura spark II have power on it with key off?
>(maybe I lett it on by mistake, not sure now)

The green wire? That's the one from the box to the coil right?
You must still have power to the "+" side of the coil also then right?
There shouldn't be any voltage on *any* of the wires when the
key is off, unless it's miswired or You've got an ign switch that's
misbehaving...


>manifolds or very close to them. When I looked under the truck the
>relatively new muffler was wide open, nothing left of it that even resembled a
>muffler. I've never seen one blow that bad before, WOW!

You didn't like those mufflers anyway, right? )-:


Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

All that I needed to know in life, I learned by
killing smart people and eating their brains.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:50:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: bkirking bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Mike Orendorf [morendorf uswest.net]

Mike,
My wife's Toyota presented with similar symptoms recently. I flushed the motor, changed the coolant, and
changed the T stat. It was the radiator. Had it cleaned and it runs great (at least as great as a Toyota can
run...) I see you have a new radiator, but thats what I'd check and double check.


Original message from Mike Orendorf [morendorf uswest.net]:

I have an interesting overheating problem, and wondering if somebody has run into this
before.

Heres what I have:
460/C-6 2WD F-100 (3.7 Rear end)
Stock water pump, new 3-core radiator, 2 electric fans

I did the electric fans install some time ago and have been very happy with them, and
this problem is not based upon airflow as you will see.

Here is the problem. This last weekend I drove about 5 hours during the heat of the
day.
For long periods of time on the highway 60Mph / 3200 RPM +, the engine will begin to
overheat. (up to 230degrees). The fans are off. Turning them on does nothing.I even
richened the mixture and retarded the timing. This helped, but only for a short time.

When I slowed down to about 50mph / 2600RPM the engine will cool off back to normal
tempature, 190degrees (Fans on or off) It seems that after 50mph or so, electric fans
serve no purpose.

Also, during one phase of my trip when the truck was running hot (230), I got a chance
to go down a steep hill, and I stuck it in neutral and I was amazed at how fast the
tempature dropped. In less than 20 seconds, it went from 230 down to 190. No
kidding! Engine RPM was at idle of course about 800RPM..

My unproved conclusions, it seems that the higher the engine RPM, the hotter it runs.
What I dont know is why. Its not air flow based, I think its one of following things:

1.Water Pump = junk and is cavitating or otherwise less functional at higher RPM's
2.Engine creates ALOT more heat at higher RPMS, even with low load.
3.Collapsing Intake Hose (I dont think so, all hoses have springs, and I checked them
when revving the engine in Park at high RPMS)
4.It is possible there is air in the system which becomes a problem at high RPM's? If
so, how can I get rid of it?

Anybody have any ideas or comments? I would appreciate it.
Also, I know I need to change the gears in the rear end. 60MPH and 3200 RPM is just
plain overreving a 460 in such a light truck...

Thanks,

Mike, AKA Supermagot
Bryan Kirking
66 Step Side
352 4 speed
Houston, Texas


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:50:42 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - wheel bounce

Jeff,

Several years ago I had the wheels on my Caddy balanced on the car in
preparation for the trip from Texas to Michigan and back. The guy came back
and said "She's done. That one wheel took 7 ounces of weight to balance."
Duh. It went right over my head. I had a flat while I was in Michigan.
Guess which tire? I couldn't go over 40 mph with the spare on. Conclusion:
the spare has a slipped belt. Solution: buy two new tires. Result: no
change in the bounce. In Michigan at that time, they did not do on the car
balancing, they only used a computer controlled machine that went to 55. I
finally found a guy that put the car on the rack and started taking pieces
off one at a time until there was no more bounce. The right rear brake drum
had thrown its balance weights and had become slightly warped. Guess where
the flat was?
Moral: don't rule out your brake drums or axles.

Also be sure your wheels are all bolted up centered.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, freshly painted, straight door; no trim yet, but
it locks and keeps the cool air in !!!!
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:08:33 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - brakes

Michael,

The last time I got a master cylinder, the directions said that it must be
level when you bench bleed it. The directions specifically said not to
bench bleed on the car. I always did my bench bleed on the bench, so
proceeded as usual.

Good luck. Hope this helps.


- -John

jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6, freshly painted, straight door; no trim yet, but
it locks and keeps the cool air in !!!!
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI E4OD
1979 MC under restoration (my son loves old cars, too!!!)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:21:11 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution

From: sdelanty sonic.net
Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:50:11 -0700
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pop Quiz, solution

> The green wire? That's the one from the box to the coil right?
> You must still have power to the "+" side of the coil also then right?
> There shouldn't be any voltage on *any* of the wires when the key is off,
> unless it's miswired or You've got an ign switch that's misbehaving...

Yeah, that was my thought too. I believe the green wire is the coil input to
the module and the module actually turns it on and off by opening and
closing the circuit to ground right? Power to the coil actually comes from
the red wire from the battery.......? Forgot the dang book so I'm wingin it
agian today, sorry :-(

I think I must have left the key on in my haste to find the trouble in all that
traffic, hope so anyway :-) Probably a good thing I did or I might not have
found the trouble so quickly. Ran real smooth the rest of the way to work :-)



78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:47:24 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - wheel bounce

Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:50:42 -0500
From: John LaGrone
Subject: FTE 61-79 - wheel bounce

> taking pieces off one at a time until there was no more bounce. The right
> rear brake drum had thrown its balance weights and had become slightly
> warped. Guess where the flat was? Moral: don't rule out your brake drums
> or axles.

That counter weight is pretty big so that certainly would make a significant
differenence but mis turned or chipped or rusted should not be significant at
that diameter. In other words the tire is more significant by some margin but
the counter weight will certainly significantly affect the balance of the assy for
sure. Ever wonder why they have such a big weight on them to balance an
essentially symetrical part? Drum castings must have some serious voids in
them, scary aint it?

This comment got me thinking about balancing and you are right, I haven't
seen on car balance done since the 60's. We used to use those friction
moter things with strobe light that would get 'er up to about 100 and really
tune 'er in. It took me 3 tries with my triumph but at 110 there was no
vibration at all :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:08:16 -0500
From: "Nils Gore"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Paint Spray Guns

>From: Mike Schwall
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Paint Spray Guns

>>This is a timely topic for me too! Let's please keep discussing it here!
>>Nils Gore
>
>Whatcha thinkin about painting?
>
>Mike

I have a 64 F100 that's turned out to be a perfect example of the "snowball
effect" (old thread). I also have a 73 F100 that I label as "rough and
reliable." Both need paint jobs.

I recently put a door and fender on my 73 after clipping a deer, and did the
body work and painting myself. I found it to be challenging and
time-consuming, but also enjoyable. I've done a good bit of woodworking, and
approached the sanding and finishing using that knowledge, (along with
drywall skills thrown in). It turned out better than I hoped. The results
are acceptable for that truck, at this time (3 feet). But I want to do much
better for the 64. My goal is to practice on the remainder of the 73, and if
that seems acceptable, then do the 64. Since the 64 has snowballed into a
much more expensive project than I originally thought it would, the pressure
(no pun) is on for a good paint job (but I don't want to make it even MORE
expensive by paying someone else to do it!)

I have a cheap Sears conventional spray gun and a contractor-type pancake
compressor (for carpentry). That gun is ok with that compressor (in terms of
capacity). I need to find out if I should upgrade my gun, to HVLP or
something). I can borrow a bigger compressor.

That's where I am right now. Am interested in what others are up to. The
community college approach has real appeal. Also found the spray paint site
Deacon (I believe) has noted
(http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.horizonweb.com/wwwboard/Spray_101/wwwboard.html ) At first
glance it looks promising for a novice like me.

Thanks,

Nils Gore




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:38:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Power brake booster + master cylinder

From: "Michael White"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Power brake booster + master cylinder
Date sent: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:08:44 -0600

> be here in 2 days. I can't help but wonder, what the &%$ ! I'm going to do
> if the new assembly produces the same results.

Older trucks usually have a level MC so you can bench bleed them in the
truck but make sure it is level first. I bought the booster/MC assy too and
put it on my bronco with poor results. I still have very mushy brakes with....


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