61-79-list-digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 327



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - COOLING FAN QUESTIONS
FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 EFI on 73 302
FTE 61-79 - rear end question
FTE 61-79 - Need Advise on Cam for 67 390
FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal
Re: FTE 61-79 - COOLING FAN QUESTIONS
FTE 61-79 - Dual Exhausts
FTE 61-79 - Re: Bill's Bed on his '65
FTE 61-79 - Cargo lamp in a supercab
Re: FTE 61-79 - $300 trucks and the best 460
FTE 61-79 - Wide Ratio
Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal
Re: FTE 61-79 - COOLING FAN QUESTIONS
FTE 61-79 - extended cab/swb box on lwb frame
FTE 61-79 - '72 Ranger
FTE 61-79 - hanger bearing
FTE 61-79 - extended cab 4WD Conversions
RE: FTE 61-79 - Cargo lamp in a supercab
FTE 61-79 - merc tailgate
RE: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal
FTE 61-79 - Rollover/ bad rods?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 timing
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: EFI on a '73 302

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:11:34 -0400
From: "."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - COOLING FAN QUESTIONS

Date: June 1, 1998 9:05pm
From: jerryrepka unidial.com
Subject: COOLING FAN QUESTIONS


Dennis -=20
You mentioned you added a cooling fan to your truck. I wanted to know =
if you are experiencing the engine running at a lower temp or the same =
temp as it did with whatever fan you had on before.
I am thinking about adding 1 to cut down on the engine noise (I just =
priced a hood insulator pad and can't do that), but I am worried it will =
run hotter than it does now. I have a 351W in a '69 F350 AOD.
Have you noticed anything else unique to the swap ?
Jerry

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:12:23 -0400
From: "."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FTE 61-79 EFI on 73 302

Date: June 1, 1998 9:05pm
From: jerryrepka unidial.com
Subject: EFI on 73 302

Gary-
You told someone to use a carb with a bowl vent and "add a carbon =
canister to vent the fuel tanks " to gain the advantage of EFI AND =
better mileage and performance. Could you explain how you get better =
mileage by doing this?=20
.....the only way I can think of how this may be possible is if you =
used a two inch vent hose and caught some of the splash from the tank.
I'll ask you about the performance after you explain the mileage.
Jerry
=00
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - rear end question


O.K. your rear end experts...help me

I've been looking for a limited slip 9" 28 spline chunk for a while
and gathered a little information...just enough to confuse me

I see the names traction-loc, an equal-loc, limited slip etc...nad I
understnad some have clutches..some don't ???

Can anyone give a definitive description of each?
Are all interchangeable into a 9" case ?
What numbers, stamps, markings identify each ?
Pros & cons for a street truck using a 460/C-6 combo

Ive found one that has the stamping C6AW on the differential case
(where the ring gear bolts on) and 9D30 somewhere on the body of the
differential case (I'm saying "case" to identify where the
differental side gears mesh.. and differential carrier is the front
portion of the chunk that everything is bolted to, that's what the
ford book calls them anyway)

I don't have the complete chunk so no tag, I also have another full
chunk sans tag..tell me what to look for please

can anyone tell me if this is a locker, limited slip or what

I see no clutches only gear clusters

Your assistance oh great ones, please !!!!!

john
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:26:47 -0400
From: shoman p3.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Need Advise on Cam for 67 390

Hey group
I just found an all original 1967 390 In a Mercury Monterey with
60,000 original miles(original owner too) I would like to drop
this motor in my truck for now and put my rebuild of my 69 390
on hold...What would be a good cam for a 68 4x4 truck for this motor??
Any other advice I should do to this motor since its coming from a car??
Besides the oil pan being different.....Thanks
- --
Joe
Aka. Fordguy
1968 F-100 4x4 302 Np435 Bone Stock down to the wheel covers
1970 F-250 4x4 390 Np435 The Beast
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://web.p3.net/~shoman
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:32:12 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal

I found a mint condition dash pad on a 72 F100 at a junkyard this
weekend. Its as soft as a new pad, I suspect it was recently
installed NOS. The question I have is this: how do I take it off?
It seems to be glued, but I'm not sure because my truck doesn't
have one at all. It was awfully muddy at the yard Saturday and I
didn't feel like taking all day to remove it - besides, I had a
friend with me who didn't appreciate the beauty of 9 67-72 F100s
in a junkyard. This weekend I'm willing to take the time to
remove it but I don't want to ruin it in the removal process.

Also found a factory A/C unit! Getting it this weekend too. I
got a windshield, the chrome around it and tail-light bezels
already. Also, to Keith Srb, the 66 I found had a non-rusted
radiator support but it was really banged up. Sorry!

Ken Payne

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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:44:10 -0400
From: shoman p3.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal

To remove the dash..You need to take out the instrument cluster,
the radio and the glove box liner..Then look up under the dash and
you'll see about 14 nuts remove these and the dash lifts off and
you'll usually find a beautiful factory painted metal dash under the
vinyl one..The dash actually doesnt look bad with the vinyl off..If you
need more help let me know
Joe
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:03:36 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - COOLING FAN QUESTIONS

Thanks for your message at 09:11 PM 6/1/98 -0400, .. Your message was:
>Date: June 1, 1998 9:05pm
>From: jerryrepka unidial.com
>Subject: COOLING FAN QUESTIONS
>
>
>Dennis -
> You mentioned you added a cooling fan to your truck. I wanted to know if
you are experiencing the engine running at a lower temp or the same temp as
it did with whatever fan you had on before.
> I am thinking about adding 1 to cut down on the engine noise (I just
priced a hood insulator pad and can't do that), but I am worried it will
run hotter than it does now. I have a 351W in a '69 F350 AOD.
> Have you noticed anything else unique to the swap ?
>Jerry
>
Well, it's only been a week, and today was the first real test (about 85
degrees). So far (two trips of about 10 miles each), I haven't noticed any
difference on either of my temp guages (one original Ford, one
aftermarket). Most of that trip was at 55 (well, 70, if you have to know)
with the fan shut off, since over about 35 mph the fan is superfluous. I
just turn the fan on when I exit the freeway and leave it on around town.

I'm not sure about the noise factor, though. It's a different noise, but
the fan I have is plenty loud, which is one of the reasons I went to the
on/off switch. I'll probably eventually go to a thermostat switch, but
for now...

Mounting the fan was not a problem, once I realized there was no way this
particular fan (IROCZ) was going to fit between the radiator and the
engine. It did fit nicely between the radiator and the grill, though. Of
course I had to reverse the wires to make it push instead of pull the air.
I'll spare you the details of the mounting, since the 69 has a different
grill and radiator, etc. Oh yeah, I did have to position it slightly to
the driver's side of the radiator because of the tranny cooler location.
I don't think this will cause any problems, since the whole fan is being
used about 3 inches from the radiator surface. I figure if this could
cool a 350 (Ch**y), it should handle a 351.

I do notice an increase in power (or is that just psychological). I don't
really know how many more horsepower this conversion is supposed to give,
but I've heard some pretty spectacular claims (10-15hp). It does only make
sense that it does help, and it has to be easier on the water pump.,

Good luck.
1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1970 Marquis 429
1973 Mustang 302 (tired)
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
!962 Unibody short box (shell) just parked the trailer in my backyard.
It's gonna be a convertible!

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:26:08 -0500
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dual Exhausts

Gary said;
>Walker makes a two into one exhaust which is quiet and efficient
>which works very well for this application as long as you are not
>planning on racing :-)

Gary,
I'm due for an exhaust system for my '79 351M. When I've asked at the parts
house before all they could come up with is the stock system. Is the Walker
system you're talking about stock diameter, (my stock exhaust is 2")? Does
anyone make a larger diameter 2-into-1 or do you have to have one
fabricated?

later,
dale c

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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:03:40 -0500
From: "Dennis K. Austin"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Bill's Bed on his '65

Hey Bill Ballinger,
I was looking at the photos of your beast and had a long look at your truck's bed. All
the 64, 65, 66 Stylesides I have seen have a flare running off the fender well back to
the bumper. I can not make this out in your photos. Is it there or is this something
from another year? I see that you have the same stainless steel grill that I do. Got
mine off a junked '66. My original grill is different. Though the paint job on mine
is not ready I think I will send a photo of mine into Ken for the site and then update
it as I continue to fix it up.

However, being a deep purple my little neices and nephews call it Barney's truck. Of
course that just gets my six yearold going. He has bought these little 8 ball
accessories for the truck including the shifter ball and calls my truck Crazy Eight.

- -=DENNIS=-

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Daniel H. Jenkins"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cargo lamp in a supercab

I was at the junkyard today and came across what I think is a good
find for my truck: a cargo light. My question is whether or not a cargo
light was an option of ford supercabs. If it was, where did they mount
the switch? I'm having trouble finding somewhere to put it; I want it to
look stock. If anybody had any clues, drop me a line. Thanks.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel H. Jenkins Food for thought: John Milton
djenkins honors.unr.edu wrote _Paradise_Lost_; When his
Honors Program wife died he wrote _Paradise_
University of Nevada, Reno _Regained_...

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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:02:15 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - $300 trucks and the best 460

i prefer the 69-72 429's or 460.the cj is not a good choice for a heavy
4x4,unless
you're planning on turning it 6000 rpm,those heads are just too large,i prefer
the
72 429 pi heads #D2OE, and next in line is the 70 460 heads #DOVE,the 429-460
will bolt to your 351 m bellhousing,a 429/460 flywheel is sort of hard to
find,but you
can use a 390 flywheel,and i highly recommend a centerforce dual friction
clutch,
i used 390 truck motor mounts when i installed the 29 in my 78 4x4,oh yea,an
oil pan with a rear sump must be used.i used one from a e350 van.

jeff grant
78 f150 4x4
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 23:57:28 -0500
From: Jim Craig
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Wide Ratio

We have had an extensive conversation in the past about wide-ratio C6's.
Now I have a stupid question, but were they ever offered in production Fords?

Thanks
Jimbo


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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:26:26 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal

>I found a mint condition dash pad on a 72 F100 at a junkyard this
>weekend. Its as soft as a new pad, I suspect it was recently
>installed NOS. The question I have is this: how do I take it off?
>It seems to be glued, but I'm not sure because my truck doesn't
>have one at all. It was awfully muddy at the yard Saturday and I
>didn't feel like taking all day to remove it - besides, I had a
>friend with me who didn't appreciate the beauty of 9 67-72 F100s
>in a junkyard. This weekend I'm willing to take the time to
>remove it but I don't want to ruin it in the removal process.

The nice new dash pad I have here in front of me has 8 small bolts
across the width of it up front right under the winshield. They point
straight down. Along the rear edge there are 5 bolts, pointing upward
and forward at about a 45 degree angle. The first one is just above the
left corner of the ashtray and the last one at the far right where the
pad curves down at the end, and the other 3 spaced between them.
Oddly, there are NO bolts on mine over the instrument cluster area, or
even in the left corner where it curves down. I suspect that some glue
is involved over on that side to hold them down...

Let me know what You find, so I'll no what to expect when I do mine!

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:26:28 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - COOLING FAN QUESTIONS

>>Dennis -
>> You mentioned you added a cooling fan to your truck. I wanted to know if
>you are experiencing the engine running at a lower temp or the same temp as
>it did with whatever fan you had on before.
>> I am thinking about adding 1 to cut down on the engine noise (I just
>priced a hood insulator pad and can't do that), but I am worried it will
>run hotter than it does now. I have a 351W in a '69 F350 AOD.
>> Have you noticed anything else unique to the swap ?
>>Jerry

Jerry, I've got a pair of electric fans on my FE390 and I love them.
For me they were a big improvement over the stock setup. The electrics
keep my FE cool even on the hottest CA days. The stock setup did not.
Like Dennis said, they make a different kind of noise than the stock
fan does. I think mine are a little quieter than stock, but they only
run once in a while so much of the time they aren't making any noise.
When I installed the electrics I also lost a vibration "buzz" that I
had around 3000 RPM. I guess the buzz came from the stock fan out on
the end of that 3" spacer...
Electrics do save quite a bit of HP. A big crank driven fan can eat
up 5-10 HP pretty easily when the RPM's are up, probably more if it's
a big "lotsa blades" model and doesn't have a fan clutch.
Electrics probably don't use much more than about 1HP.
And Dennis was right, You're H2O pump bearings will live longer
without the fan flailing around on the front of it.

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation
leans on the doorbell.

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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:28:54 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - extended cab/swb box on lwb frame

i have not had any luck in finding an extended cab 4x4 for sale.
does any one know if a supercab cab and a shortbed will fit a std cab lwb
truck
78-79?
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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:11:07 +0000
From: "Jay Fleming"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '72 Ranger

I'm new to the list and to the world of Ford pickups. I've just
started reworking a '72 F-100 Ranger LWB. The original 360 is shot,
so I'm trying to decide which way to go with a replacement. Reading
some of the archives has indicated that a lot of you prefer the
really big engines. I understand that for most highway driving that
the fuel economy numbers are pretty comparable, but here's my
dilemma. This truck has a 4.11 posi rear, so whatever I drop into it
is going to be pulling some high revs on the open road. I know that
I could swap out rear ends, but I sure like the posi! Am I correct
in understanding that none of the automatic overdrive transmissions
will fit behind a 360-390? What about a 351c? Since those weren't
put in pickups, what's involved in getting one to bolt up? (I've had
a thing for Clevelands ever since I drove a friend's 2v Gran Torino
back in High School. You could hardly touch the gas without smoking
the right rear tire.) Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Jay Fleming
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:20:46 -0700
From: Aaron Jacobson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - hanger bearing

Thanks to all the suggestions on the vibration problem I was having
after installing my new hanger bearing.Those of you who suggested the
rear and front shafts might be out of line were right.I removed the rear
shaft and gave it about an 8th of a turn.When I climbed under the truck
I noticed the rear u-joint seemed out of line from the front.All that
was needed was about two splines to the left and presto no more
vibrations.I bow to all you Ford gods and thanks again.
Jake in B.C.
65 f250 camper special(flat black and still going)
351c
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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:25:27 -0700
From: Randy Collins
Subject: FTE 61-79 - extended cab 4WD Conversions

i have not had any luck in finding an extended cab 4x4 for sale. does any
one know if a supercab cab and a shortbed will fit a std cab lwb truck
78-79?

Sorry I can't help you with the shortbed conversion. Are you aware you can
build a 4WD Supercab? It isn't simple but it can be done. You can
lengthen the 4WD frame or weld the front 4WD frame rails to the 2WD frame.

I am embarrassed to say how long I have been working on my project but you
can be certain that it is of the type that most folks advise against. I
did the 4WD Supercab conversion, automatic conversion, 460 Sleddog worthy
(I hope) 460 conversion, added cruise control, intermittent wipers, tilt
steering column, 91 Ford Supercab bucket seats and console, shoulder belts,
sway bars, and the high dollar sound system. The motor isn't even
completed and I have spent the last several months just working on the
sound system.

If anyone has questions about any of these items feel free to drop me a
note. I have been really busy with work so sometimes it takes me a while
to reply.

Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Heads Sitting on the work bench!


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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:36:19 -0700
From: Randy Collins
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Cargo lamp in a supercab


My question is whether or not a cargo light was an option of ford
supercabs.


My 1975 Supercab has the factory cargo light. The switch is mounted behind
the drivers side door close to the top of the cab. The are is between the
door post and the Supercab glass. My cab has a flat area there that is a
few inches long. I purchased a new switch from Ford but the cargo light is
no longer available. You don't happen to have an extra cargo light in good
shape?

I also purchased a new interior cab light from Ford.

Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Heads Sitting on the work bench!


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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:37:53 -0700
From: Aaron Jacobson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - merc tailgate

Hey Marko!
From what I have been reading on your posts seems you have some Merc
contacts.I was driving around today in Courtenay and saw a beauty 65
Merc.Had to catch up to him and find out what he was running in it.He
has kept her original with a very healthy sounding 352.He has one
problem in his quest for a complete original 65 Merc and that is a
tailgate.There are a lot of old Ford gates here on the Island but Mercs
are scarcer than hen's teeth.Any over on the mainland he might find? I
told him about the list but he isn't on line.In the mean time I told him
I would post it for him.Any guy with a beauty 65 Merc like that one
can't be that bad.
Jake in B.C.
65 f250 camper special (flat black and still going)
351c
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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:21:22 -0400
From: "Ken Schneider"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal

any mint door panals? or seats?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ken Payne
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 9:32 PM
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - Dash pad removal
>
>
> I found a mint condition dash pad on a 72 F100 at a junkyard this
> weekend. Its as soft as a new pad, I suspect it was recently
> installed NOS. The question I have is this: how do I take it off?
> It seems to be glued, but I'm not sure because my truck doesn't
> have one at all. It was awfully muddy at the yard Saturday and I
> didn't feel like taking all day to remove it - besides, I had a
> friend with me who didn't appreciate the beauty of 9 67-72 F100s
> in a junkyard. This weekend I'm willing to take the time to
> remove it but I don't want to ruin it in the removal process.
>
> Also found a factory A/C unit! Getting it this weekend too. I
> got a windshield, the chrome around it and tail-light bezels
> already. Also, to Keith Srb, the 66 I found had a non-rusted
> radiator support but it was really banged up. Sorry!
>
> Ken Payne
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 01:38:36 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rollover/ bad rods?

>Gary writes: >>If he took it apart and found the rods to be bad then some
>other cause would be my first inclination, not the rollover......Anybody
>else ever hear of this?
>
>I agree totally.
>
>Did this guy have a use for the engine himself, by chance??????????
>Sounds like "Bull" to me.
>
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al

The only way it could have bent a rod is if it filled the cylinders full of
water, like if you rolled it in a creek and filled it while it was still
running. Or maybe if the intake manifold water seal went away internally and
filled a hole full of antifreeze while it was still running. Sorry but it
sounds to me too like the guy want's your engine for nothing, or to get you
to spend a lot of money for something you don't need.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:02:15 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 400 timing

>If you think you are not getting enough at the bottom you can try
>advancing your initial by 2 degrees at a time till you experience
>spark knock and back off the last 2 degrees but make sure your
>mechanical parts are all free and working easily first. (wd40 works
>wonders here, but wipe off the excess)

I had to use this method on my FE to get it to run right. I've never seen a
motor run 25 degrees of initial timing before, but my balancer has probably
slipped some (no vibration though). At 10 degrees it makes 7 hg of vacuam
and backfires when you accelerate. At 25 it makes 15 1/2 or 16 hg at 875
rpms (you can still hear the cam a little bit if you listen), doesn't ping
or kick back on the starter, and runs like it should. In fact it will miss
before it will ping when I advance it further. (too much overlap on the cam
maybe?) The economy at this setting is satisfactory, and goes away quickly
when you retard it any. I bumped it back up here this weekend and can see a
real difference with 2 degrees change. I guess I'll leave it alone. I
suspect that the cam is an Edelbrock dual pattern 272 int 284 ex with .480
lift because a Ch*vy friend of mine has one of that type and has had similar
tuning trouble and driveability quirks. Timing and lots of it.

I would like to have you when you get time to delve into the theory involved
with this phenomenon, and why a cam like this is wrong for a trucks needs. I
know from experience but am a little short on the science involved.
Come on over to my Back Porch
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ldd.net/scribers/ballingr
Ballinger
ballingr ldd.net

= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
Send posts to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
"unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the message body.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:09:23 -0500
From: ballingr....


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